Boomer,
because you are an "OLDTIMER" and have been around the boards a few times, I would truly appreciate your help w/ RESENTMENT.

Below is a post I wrote way up there in EN asking Star*'s help w/ understanding resentment. Bless her heart, she posted back an excurtp (I don't loose points for spelling, do I?) from Dr. Harley's writtings. They ARE a great help, but resentment still befuddles me.

If you must know more of my soap opera-ish saga, I will provide you w/ a link to the novel poted way up there in EN-land.

Your time and insight into this matter are truly appreciated.

Thanx,
xo
H.
*Hypatia

posted September 18, 2003 06:58 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good Mornig Groupie*,
Would you mind helping me w/ this question?
I know what RESENTMENT feels like kinda sorta.
I say "kinda sorta" because it is not a feeling that I have ever properly addressed.
I know I harbor resentment toward my dear H and his role in our marraige.
BUT, because I have NEVER allowed myself to address, face, work thru the feeling(s), I really don't even know what RESENTMENT is.
Wierd?

I know I feel sad when I allow myself to "feel".
I have a pretty good idea as to what unaddressed things of the past, present and hopefully not the future are triggering those feelings.

Resentment befuddles me.

HELP!!!!!!

xo
Hypatia

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|

star*fish

posted September 18, 2003 07:15 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Hypatia,

Even Dr. Harley himself says this is a very hard topic to broach. Here are his thoughts:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This topic is one of the most difficult topics to address in marriage. On the one hand, resentment is a normal reaction to someone who has caused you to go through unbearable pain. It is your emotion's way of warning you to avoid people who have hurt you in the past -- they may hurt you again in the future! But, on the other hand, resentment can also be an irrational reaction to something that is no longer a real threat. In fact, resentment itself may become a greater threat to your happiness than what it is you fear.

Those who have written me understand how damaging their feeling of resentment is to their happiness and to the future of their marriage. But they seem unable to stop it. It's a great subject for a psychologist, who is supposed to know how to help people control their emotions. But, I must admit, this is a tough one.

I have answers to some parts of the problem, but not all of them. So to help you as much as I can, I will lay the problem out to you and give my advice wherever I can.

The more there is to resent, the more difficult it is to overcome resentment.

Both B.A. and S.K. think about their husband's affair when they try to make love, and it prevents them from having a fulfilling sexual experience. And they both learned about the affairs within the past few months. But there's quite a bit of difference between them. B.A. has only one affair to think about, while S.K. has six of them, many with her closest friends. As a result, other things being equal, I would expect B.A.'s resentment to fade much more quickly than S.K.'s resentment.

The resentment of B.A. and S.K. is a normal emotional reaction to the pain they suffered. The pain was directly associated with their husbands, so now, every time they make love, and lower their emotional defenses, they feel that pain all over again.

But emotional associations fade over time as long as there are no further associations with new painful events. In both cases, their husbands have not had an affair after the revelation, and so I would predict that if they have a normal recovery, where they learn to meet each other's needs, avoid Love Busters and learn to apply the Policy of Joint Agreement and the Policy of Radical Honesty to their decisions, the resentment would fade away.

If, on the other hand, either husband were to have another affair, the association would be much harder to extinguish. In fact, when a couple goes through a recovery after an affair, and then experience another affair, the resentment is often more intense and more persistent after the second recovery. With multiple affairs and recoveries, resentment is almost impossible to overcome. But then, in those cases I usually feel that the emotional reaction of resentment is not irrational at all. Emotions are telling the person that it's not a good idea to continue the relationship, and I would agree.

But there is more to resent than just the number of affairs a husband had in the past. In many cases, an affair is discovered while it's going on, and the unfaithful spouse makes matters worse by choosing to be with the lover and abandoning the spouse and children. That thoughtless act is a huge source of additional resentment for the victimized spouse. He or she not only goes through the pain of discovering the affair, but must also go through the pain of being rejected. The unfaithful spouse often moves away to be with the lover, leaving the spouse all alone to face the terror of abandonment.

Then, if all of that weren't enough, the unfaithful spouse explains that he or she needs time to "sort out" feelings, whatever that means. It actually means that the unfaithful spouse will go to the highest bidder. Whoever makes the unfaithful spouse feel the best, the lover or the spouse, will win the prize of the unfaithful spouse. So he or she spends some time with the lover, and then spends some time with the spouse. Back and forth, trying to "get in touch" with feelings. Can you fathom the resentment that would follow such a horrifying and humiliating experience?

But there's more. After vacillating back and forth a few times, the lover gets sick of it all and tosses the spouse out for good. With nowhere else to go, the unfaithful spouse comes back home. It wasn't his or her choice. It was the lover's choice. How would you feel being chosen because you were the only one left. Resentment doesn't begin to describe the feeling.

Finally, there's all the lies. Your spouse looks right into your eyes and lies to you about everything. Faced with undeniable evidence, he or she grudgingly and defensively admits to one lie after another, rarely accompanied by apologies. How can there ever be trust again?

B.A. and S.K. went through only a small number of the possible painful experiences that lead to resentment. Over time, their resentment will fade, and a passionate desire to make love to their husbands will grow. Both husbands should be patient, and give their wives a chance to overcome the worst of their resentment, before expecting much from them sexually. But a woman in love is usually a great sex partner, and I doubt that either husband will be disappointed if they do their part in meeting their wives emotional needs. I predict that within a year from now, both of these wives will have almost completely recovered from their feelings of resentment.

But if they had gone through the other experiences I had mentioned -- abandonment, vacillation between spouse and lover, returning after being rejected by the lover, and the many lies -- I would not be as optimistic about them overcoming their resentment quickly. It would take much more patience on the part of the unfaithful husbands. But even with all of this past pain and suffering, they too, could have a marriage that would be relatively free of resentment.

Some people are better at remembering than others

I read recently that estrogen replacement significantly improves memory in women. Great! That's all I need. A wife that can do an even better job remembering everything I've ever done to offend her.

It's true that the better your memory, the more difficult it will be to overcome resentment. That's because resentment is tied to memories, and if you forget the painful event, the resentment is lost along with it. One of the reasons I'm not so keen on dredging up the past as a part of therapy is that it brings up memories that carry resentment along with them. If I'm not careful, a single counseling session can open up such a can of worms that the presenting problem gets lost in a flood of new and painful memories. If the goal of therapy is to "resolve" every past issue, that seems to me to be a good way to keep people coming for therapy for the rest of their lives. That's because it's an insurmountable goal. We simply cannot resolve everything that's ever bothered us.

Instead, I tend to focus my attention on the present and the future, because they are what we can all do something about. The past is over and done with. Why waste our effort on the past when the future is upon us. Granted, it's useful to learn lessons from the past, but if we dwell on the past, we take our eyes off the future which can lead to disaster.

I personally believe that therapy should focus most attention, not on the past, but on ways to make the future sensational. And when a spouse comes to me with unresolved feelings of resentment about something their spouse did in the past, I tend to put it on hold and focus on issues that prevent mistakes of the past from recurring. I ask them to trust my judgment, and see what happens to the resentment when the marriage has a chance to become fulfilling. In almost every case, resentment fades, as I predicted. While the painful memories are not entirely forgotten, the most recent marital experiences which are fulfilling and enjoyable, dominate a person's thinking, and resentment becomes weak and infrequent.

Recovery may not be complete

Resentment usually appears when an experience of the present reminds us of a painful experience of the past. For example, if a wife had been abandoned by her husband after a fight on a vacation, left to find her way home alone from Jamaica, the resentment of that experience would pop up whenever her husband walks out the door during an argument. Very often, continuing resentment means that whatever it was that caused the painful experience is still lurking in the background. And it jumps out every once in a while when evidence of it's existence surfaces.

The procedure for recovery that I suggest usually eliminates the root causes of infidelity, and that makes it unlikely that present experiences will remind a spouse of experiences associated with an affair. If the only time you feel resentment about a spouse's past affair is when your needs have not been met, when your spouse is engaged in a Love Buster, or when the Policy of Joint Agreement or Policy of Radical Honesty has not been followed, then it's the completion of recovery that's your problem, not resentment.

Using resentment as a way to control and punish a spouse

I'm convinced that what's kept the resentment of S.R.'s husband alive for so many years is that he has found it to be an effective way to control and punish her whenever she doesn't do what he wants. Whenever they have a fight, he brings it up, and it causes her such guilt that it gives him a decided advantage in winning the argument.

By this time, I don't believe that her affair is the problem that she thinks it is. Instead, it is an issue that her husband is using to get the upper hand in his relationship with her. It probably shows up the most whenever she has been reluctant to have sex with him. It throws her off balance whenever he mentions it, and makes her feel guilty, wanting to make it up to him somehow. He may also bring it up whenever she is winning in a power struggle he is having with her.

What she describes to me in her letter is abuse, pure and simple. There is no excuse for the way her husband keeps bringing up her moment of weakness she experienced years ago. He is disrespectful and abusive.

I suggest that she look him right in the eye and say to him, "Listen Buster, do you love me? Do you want me to love you? Do you want to spend the rest of your life with me? If the answers to any of those questions is 'yes' you sure are going about it the wrong way. You are not doing things that I admire, you're doing things that I find disgusting!"

What if he says, "Fine, then lets just get a divorce and end it all."

To that I would say, "It's up to you. I married you for life, but if you want a divorce, it's your call. If you want to be in a love relationship with me, however, you're going to have to treat me much better than you have been treating me. You must never again bring up my affair, and if you are upset with me, you will have to treat me with respect until we can solve the problem. If you are upset with our sexual relationship, I want us to discuss it as adults and solve it with mutual respect. I refuse to be treated like this, especially by the man I love."

My advice to her husband is to never mention her affair again. It's a good example of one of the enemies of good conversation, dwelling on past mistakes. Whenever you keep bringing up your spouses past mistakes, you not only make your conversations incredibly unpleasant, but it cannot possibly lead to a resolution of a conflict you may be discussing. And as soon as his resentment doesn't pay him any dividends -- no longer helps him get his way -- he will find that it hardly ever occurs to him.

Hanging on to an unpleasant thought because it helps us somehow is what psychologists call "secondary gain." It means that even though the thought is unpleasant, it gets you something you need, so your mind keeps it around for its usefulness. There are many unpleasant thoughts that have this characteristic, and I have helped many people let them go by helping them destroy the usefulness of the thought. Making sure that S.K.'s husband never gets what he wants by bringing up her affair will help him overcome his resentment.

Other considerations

I'm running out of room to adequately address all aspects of resentment about affairs (I try to keep these Q&A columns reasonably brief), but there are a few other important topics that I will briefly mention.

One topic is loss of trust. How can a spouse ever trust an unfaithful partner again? My answer is that the spouse should never have been trusted in the first place. I shouldn't be trusted by my wife, and I shouldn't trust her. The fact is that we are all wired for infidelity, and under certain conditions, we'll all do it. The way to protect your marriage from something that has been common to man (and women) for thousands of years is to recognize the threat, and do something to prevent it from happening. Basing a marriage on the Policy of Radical Honesty and the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward preventing an affair. Being each other's favorite leisure-time companions, and not being away from each other overnight are also important safety measures. Meeting each other's most important emotional needs, avoiding Love Busters and building an integrated lifestyle, free of secret second lives, are all ways to affair-proof your marriage. With these measures in place, we end up trusting our spouses because an affair becomes almost impossible to achieve.

Another topic that I will briefly mention is obsessive thinking. Some people feel that if they stop thinking about something terrible, it will happen to them. While it's not all that common, it effects certain people known to be obsessive, where regardless of the low probability of risk, they treat some thoughts as if they were an ever-present danger. Those who compulsively wash their hands for fear of being infected by germs are an example of this type of person. The solution to their problem often lies in medication that helps them overcome obsessive thoughts and compulsive behavior. There are some very effective medical remedies that a doctor trained in obsessive thinking can prescribe that often help a person rid themselves of pervasive resentment regarding an affair.

Admittedly, I have not covered resentment regarding an affair completely. But it's a start. If your problem with resentment is not covered in this column, e-mail me issues that you are still struggling with, and I will try to help you with them.

Resentment seems insurmountable when an affair is first discovered, and as it unfolds, with its attending lies and thoughtless acts, it's amazing that anyone can actually overcome resentment. But it's a fact that people usually do, especially when the core problems leading to infidelity are resolved. It's a good illustration of how our instincts lead us astray when trying to resolve our marital problems. Most of us cannot imagine overcoming resentment after a spouse's affair, but those who have gone through it know that it's not only possible, but it's likely that resentment will fade away.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<small>[ September 25, 2003, 06:58 AM: Message edited by: *Hypatia ]</small>

You mean like the resentment I feel that Cerri has her name on all those threads???

j/k..

Okay, I'll take a stab at this. I found some info for you...the first one is a "resentment" quiz, more than 3 yes answers, and you have a resentment problem..the second part is how to "fix it"...

------------------------------------------------

A chain of resentment precedes most anger problems, even the extreme ones that become violent.

Resentment Test

When you notice that someone is resentful or complaining, do you:

Identify with the situations he or she describes?
Identify with the people being complained about?
Think about the way they should have handled these situations?
Feel disgusted by their overreaction to life’s problems?
Does the word, "compassion" sometimes irritate you?

Do you ever feel:
Taken advantage of?
Manipulated?
Unappreciated?
Like whatever you do is not enough?
Like all you get from loved ones is a few crumbs now and then?
Like people rarely consider your feelings?
Like nobody understands you?
Like hardly anything works the way it should?
That you give more than you get?
That you work harder than others for the same reward?
That people hold you to a higher standard?
That you sometimes feel like nothing matters anyway?
“Why should I be the only one who bothers?”
“All I've done for him/her and look what…”
That you can’t get over how unfair it is?
That you’d like to get back at those jerks?

More than three yes answers??
You have a resentment problem!

Here’s an even better indicator, one closer to the heart of the matter.
If some subtle form of resentment that you may not even be aware of, makes you do something against your best interest, or keeps you from doing something that is in your best interest.

The harmful things resentment makes you do and the good things it keeps you from doing can be subtle and completely unconscious, like putting an emotional wall between you and someone you love. You don’t mean to do it and are probably unaware of doing it. Nevertheless, it can set in motion a chain reaction of behaviors that will ruin your health and your life.

-------------------------------------------------

How to fix it??

Stored-up anger turns into resentment and hostility. It creates distance. It kills passion.
The short answer is: To release your anger, you need to express it - and then forgive.

Tell your spouse honestly the SPECIFIC details about your resentment, face-to-face.

Express yourself fully, even if it means raising your voice.

As you speak, pay attention to your feelings, to your physical sensations and to your spouses.

Express any appreciation for your spouse that comes up in the process; as you do, pay the same attention to your feelings, body sensations, and your spouse.

Stay with all the feelings that come up - don't judge them.

Stay in the process until your resentment is gone.

For you and your spouse to get the most out of this process:

Create safety. Agree in advance on your purpose; set aside time in a private place.
Talk face to face; look each other in the eyes.
Start your sentences as often as possible with the words, "I resent you for..." or "I appreciate you for..."
Speak in present tense. Even though you are talking about something past, you are resentful right now.
Stay specific. Don't say "always" or "never." Give details of specific incidents.
Focus on what did happen instead of what didn't happen.
Express your feelings as they come up during the interaction.
Keep exchanging resentments as they come up; eventually you will run out.
After you both fully express your specific resentments, state your appreciation in the same way.
Even though you feel loving and inspired after this process, new incidents will create new resentments. Repeat the process as soon as either of you feels the need.

So, there you go. Hope some of it helps.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by boomer:
You mean like the resentment I feel that Cerri has her name on all those threads???

j/k..

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><sniffle> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <sniffle> <sigh>

Boomer,
I am terribly sorry it has taken me so long to get back here. BabyLove is not well. We have been to the base clinic and now he is on an inhaler and pseudafed, Zyrtec and R&R.

I got a few things to do and I HOPE that I will be right back.

And, thank you for you response, I do appreciate it.

xo
H.

Boomer, I am so sorry it took me so long to get back to this, I had to get something off my chest on MB.

So, here it goes. I am brave now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by boomer:
<strong>You mean like the resentment I feel that Cerri has her name on all those threads???

j/k..</strong>

heh heh heh

Okay, I'll take a stab at this. I found some info for you...the first one is a "resentment" quiz, more than 3 yes answers, and you have a resentment problem..the second part is how to "fix it"...

DRAT, I don't wanna do this but I will. >heavy sigh< here it goes...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

------------------------------------------------

A chain of resentment precedes most anger problems, even the extreme ones that become violent.

Resentment Test

When you notice that someone is resentful or complaining, do you:

Identify with the situations he or she describes?
sometimes
Identify with the people being complained about?
Sometimes
Think about the way they should have handled these situations?
generally, yes
Feel disgusted by their overreaction to life’s problems?
Rarely
Does the word, "compassion" sometimes irritate you?
No, I love the word

Do you ever feel:
Taken advantage of?
no
Manipulated?
I "feel" the efforts" and very often "stop" the efforts
Unappreciated?
That would be a YES, I am here on MB, aren't I?
Like whatever you do is not enough?
I sometimes start out that way then often turn it around.
Like all you get from loved ones is a few crumbs now and then?
That would be a YES, I am here on MB, aren't I?
Like people rarely consider your feelings?
There is only one "people" that I am feeling that way about right now, otherwise, I don't let it bother me. So, how does that count?
Like nobody understands you?
There is only one person right now that I feel is not making a true effort to try and get to know me that I care about.
Like hardly anything works the way it should?
Only in my marraige
That you give more than you get?
Only in my marraige
That you work harder than others for the same reward?
Only in my marraige
That people hold you to a higher standard?
no
That you sometimes feel like nothing matters anyway?
no
“Why should I be the only one who bothers?”
no
“All I've done for him/her and look what…”
no
That you can’t get over how unfair it is?
Only once in a while, but I am in this for the long term and do see improvements overall.
That you’d like to get back at those jerks?
NEVER

More than three yes answers??
You have a resentment problem!

Here’s an even better indicator, one closer to the heart of the matter.
If some subtle form of resentment that you may not even be aware of, makes you do something against your best interest, or keeps you from doing something that is in your best interest.

The harmful things resentment makes you do and the good things it keeps you from doing can be subtle and completely unconscious, like putting an emotional wall between you and someone you love. You don’t mean to do it and are probably unaware of doing it. Nevertheless, it can set in motion a chain reaction of behaviors that will ruin your health and your life.

That's where I am the most concerned. The things that we are not aware of. I have "reasons" in our marraige to be resentful, I can pretty much tell anyone what they are. I just do not understand the feeling, how it works (or how it does NOT work) and how to conquer it and move on.

-------------------------------------------------

[b]How to fix it??

Stored-up anger turns into resentment and hostility. It creates distance. It kills passion.
The short answer is: To release your anger, you need to express it - and then forgive.

Tell your spouse honestly the SPECIFIC details about your resentment, face-to-face.

Express yourself fully, even if it means raising your voice.

As you speak, pay attention to your feelings, to your physical sensations and to your spouses.

Express any appreciation for your spouse that comes up in the process; as you do, pay the same attention to your feelings, body sensations, and your spouse.

Stay with all the feelings that come up - don't judge them.

Stay in the process until your resentment is gone.

For you and your spouse to get the most out of this process:

Create safety. Agree in advance on your purpose; set aside time in a private place.
Talk face to face; look each other in the eyes.
Start your sentences as often as possible with the words, "I resent you for..." or "I appreciate you for..."
Speak in present tense. Even though you are talking about something past, you are resentful right now.
Stay specific. Don't say "always" or "never." Give details of specific incidents.
Focus on what did happen instead of what didn't happen.
Express your feelings as they come up during the interaction.
Keep exchanging resentments as they come up; eventually you will run out.
After you both fully express your specific resentments, state your appreciation in the same way.
Even though you feel loving and inspired after this process, new incidents will create new resentments. Repeat the process as soon as either of you feels the need.

So, there you go. Hope some of it helps.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">oooooooo
I am scared of even trying this. H and I are not exactly at a place where I feel safe expressing any of my true negative feelings. I honestly do not feel that he would either listen to me or hear me.

DRAT!
This saddens me. I want to be there so badly. I want to past to be the past and really move on w/ our marriage.
I can see that H and I are going to NEED MC, but getting to the point where H even agrees that this would be a good thing?

Boomer, I truly appreciate your taking the time for me.
Thank You
xo
Hypatia

Boomer,
I have a question regarding RESENTMENT vs EMPATHY.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by boomer:
<strong>

When you notice that someone is resentful or complaining, do you:

Identify with the situations he or she describes?
Identify with the people being complained about?
Think about the way they should have handled these situations?

Does the word, "compassion" sometimes irritate you? </strong>

Couldn't these, if answered "yes" be empathy? Especially if one does not try and "fix" the other person's situation? If one does not internalize the other person's situation?

Where is the "fuzzy line" between resntment and empathy on these?

xo
Hypatia

Good Morning Boomer, and all others who are reading this thread,
And how are we this loverly Wednesday morning?

Any ideas or comments or suggestions or insight into the RESENTMENT/EMPATHY question?

xo
H.

whoa!
An epiphany!

The first RESENTMENT thing I need to get thru is the resentment toward my H because I do not feel as though I can address issues, no matter how big or small. I do not trust that my H will allow me to me to express my true feelings (especially if "negative") w/ out his getting cranky, defencive, agrumentive, or just plain shutting me out.

All I want for him to do is listen patiently. He doesn't even to respond. I just need to get it out in the open between us.

This resentment is MINE. I need to get thru it.
For his part, all I want is for him to know and understand that I feel resentment.

If I tackle that one, it will be easier to tackle to other resentments, right?

Hmmmm........

xo
H.

Sounds like a plan H! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Perhaps if you at least make him aware that you are resentful, he might beg the question : "WHY?" which COULD lead you into a productive discussion. IF the discussion turns out to be his usual "reactions" as you've described them, at least you will have succeeded in letting him know how you feel (i.e. resentful)

IRONY: I was lookiing in this thread because I felt a lot of resentment over W's FM! And here I find you! rofl! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hey Machine,
Thank you so much for replying! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

PLAN H, a new chapter in the books by Dr.Harley? Naw, someday, we will each write one of our own.
ROTFL

You are absolutley right, no matter my H's response, I would have succeeded it getting MY resentment out in the open.

Resentment is tough stuff, huh?
I am still having the hardest time describing to myself how resentment feels.
I guess it's when an action or inaction triggers feelings of dread, sadness, anger toward the person who acted or NOT and you quickly ASSUME that the old "tried and true" next step will happen?
I guess? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
See. I am still having a hard time w/ it.
I kinda sorta dwell on the habitual behaviors, actions, inactions, of the past exhibited by my dear H and assume they will never change. I say "kinda sorta" because I also spend alot of time and effort pushing the feelings back and berating myself for feeling that way to begin w/.

I really do not "dwell", that would be bad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hmmm... Your thoughts?
xo
H.

Even just acknowledging and "exploring" the idea of my resentments has helped me tremendously.

I am so grateful that I can air such "explorations" here on MB.

Thanx all
xo
H.