My post was getting buried, so I started another one address specifically. For updated version, before reading below, please go back to read my original 'MAJOR HELP NEEDED'.

I tried to call him a couple of times Sunday to update him on our dog after vet visit and I kept getting his VM. After just two messages, he finally tried to call me back. He must have left about 5 messages. Finally we connected around 10:00 p.m. I felt that I had to let him know how I was feeling, like I was being used. He then went on saying that, "well we saw each other from Wednesday night through Friday night, you know I had to work today" I replied with feelings like, I guess whatever tidbit of your time that you give us, is supposed to make me feel complete, or something like that. (I know - big time LBing). He was about to drive into his underground parking to his apartment, which gets no reception on the cell so he said I'll talk to you tomorrow and hung up. Before this though, he kept asking me if tonight, Monday, we could go out to dinner again, to my daughter's fav resteraunt for her birthday. I said that I would let him know.

Well it was all a lie, (big surprise). Last night my reports were coming in from his computer. She had been on his computer, IMing a friend of hers, just before he got home. The last thing she wrote was, that "her and her man were about to go into the jacuzzi, ooooohhhhhh".

After reading all of this, now I'm figuring it wasn't him checking her email, she must've been doing it this whole time, from his place. In my heart of hearts, I didn't believe him, even though I was hoping.

I left my H a VM late last night, knowing his phone would be turned off. I asked him to call me back right away to finish the conversation. He had recently told me to continue to ask questions and not to assume anything, so that's exactly what I wanted to do. I said my mind is racing with certain ideas of what I need to do, but I'm scared. (I didn't say it, but I meant going directly into exposing this A once and for all, then into Plan B).

I plan on calling in to Steve for another session. I feel like I'm in a stuck mode, not sure which way to go. Can I get some advice. I guess I'm one of those people that need to be told what my next move is. Too emotional right now to think for myself. I know this is the wrong way to handle it, and I can't believe this words I'm writing but it's true. I was never this way in other relationships and I feel like a newbie dealing with things like this, for the first time.

HELP!!!

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

If you are seperated, and this woman is apparently staying with him, why aren't you in PlB?

I replied with feelings like, I guess whatever tidbit of your time that you give us, is supposed to make me feel complete, or something like that.

Ok, but these are not feelings. I would say it's an angry outburst with a bit of disrespect thrown in for good measure. Sharing your feelings is not a love buster, but using words as a knife is.

Feelings are words that describe emotions. Happy, sad, hurt, angry.... did you see the list I posted her a couple of weeks ago? The template is to say, "I feel ___ when _____." Those are feelings.

So, what I think you might have been trying to get across is that you feel lonely and hurt and unhappy with the schedule the way it's been, and that you'd like to talk about a way to spend more time together?

C

Cerri,

Actually what I was trying to get across was that, was I suppose to feel blessed or lucky or thrilled that he could give us 3 days in a row. With a sarcastic twist of course. I said in a way though, that wasn't disrepectful or angry (that may be a contradiction), but his response wasn't defensive, like it would've been normally. And actually I did start off with "I feel ____, when____". Perhaps that's why his response wasn't defensive or ugly. He was understanding to a degree.

He's checked and deleted my emails, no response. He knows he's caught with more lies and of course will avoid me. It's all I can do to not jump in my car and drive to his apartment. I do have a session with Steve this a.m.

I realize that if this board were to give out grades for the MB principles, I would receive a big fat F.....and I've said it before, that I've felt my situation is extremely different from the rest (silly isn't it). We're all here for the same reasons and the same stories. Even though I've done my share in destroying this marriage or putting it in the position it is today, I do not believe it should be all on me to pick up the crap that he's left behind. The fog should be also described as Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde.

Anyway, any input before 11:00 this a.m.????
Thx

up

up

So how did your session go?

Thank you for asking.....actually pretty helpful. I just hope I didn't give him a headache by going over my long story. I tend to go on and on and on and........

The thing is, my H continues to lie and deny that he's lying about the A. So now that he's caught, again, his behavior has done a 180 from last week and he's blaming me. Now he's threatening to file divorce if I don't agree to signing some documents regarding reimbursement of mortgage for the house. Also canceling my user name and my daughter's user name on our AOL account, since he pays the bills and thinks I'm going into his emails, which I'm not. (remember I have that other way).

It's just so exhausting. What makes things even worse is that he promised my daughter he'd take her out to dinner tonight for her birthday, she has her heart set on it, but because of whatever guilt or feelings he's going through right now, he's made other plans and won't be taking her out to dinner. I'm sure that all of this has something to do with the OW, in that, she's putting the pressure on, telling him what he better do, etc. Again, exhausting.

My finances are in sad shape, I guess his are too, but again none of this would be happening if.........(you can fill in the blank).

Still talking to me and treating me with vile, and vulgarity. How can I make it through this????

So from your session, what is the plan going forward?

Well, it was decided that I should continue with Plan A (modified version) for a bit longer. My concern was that I was feeling like a "doormat". You see, trying to figure out the best way to successfully do a Plan A by protecting him from me. Just to basically be in control of my actions, not to be a "stepford wife". Decide which is best, having the knowledge of his actions or do a succesful plan by not LBing. Of course I do want a chance to recover the marriage, but realizing that it may not come to pass is hard.

My H has failed to protect his weaknesses, thus the A. That nothing I could've have done or not done might not have prevented that. My biggest thing is that everything I say or ask my H, he responds with defensiveness. Basically my reaction is just to back off, change the subject or direction of the conversation.

So for now I'll continue Plan A for a bit, and have minimal contact, since he's still in major denial about the continued A.

Any thoughts?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So what exactly is a "modified PlA?"

Lemon,

Do yourself a favor and just call Cerri, ok? You can find the number on her website. I think you really, really need to call.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...his behavior has done a 180 from last week and he's blaming me. Now he's threatening to file divorce if I don't agree to signing some documents regarding reimbursement of mortgage for the house. Also canceling my user name and my daughter's user name on our AOL account, since he pays the bills and thinks I'm going into his emails, which I'm not. (remember I have that other way). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is just his LBs. Do you know what Disrespectful Judgements, Selfish Demands, and Angry Outbursts are used for? They are used to get his way regardless of how you feel. I would ignore them. If he issues another one, respond accordingly, "I would love it if we could converse about this in a respectful, non-threatening way." Do not take the bait, respond with anger, or give in.

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

o.k., not it's totally out of control and I don't know what to do. Just smack me upside the head already. I really need to speak to someone here, live. Cerri or Takola or anyone, if you have some time to help talk me through this, send me an email and I'll give you my contact info.

Plan B snuck up on me, but not by me. (if that makes sense).

I'm losing grip fast.

You can email me at help@saveyourmarriagecentral.com

I'll be out most of the day - meetings - but I'll do my best to get back to you asap.

C

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Yesterday, (Friday) I found out that what my H has been telling me, that the OW was calling my employer, police, attorney was not true. That when I called her house and hung up that one time, she didn't see the caller ID, HE DID. He was there at her place, and I guess did not tell her. He says he has not told her any of the things that I've done. But I'm not so sure I believe any of that. The only reason he even said any of this was because I told him I lost my job because of there threats. Otherwise I'm sure he would have gone on leading me to believe all of this BS.

I've asked him to give us some time, since he's so busy, to get together and talk about some of these issues. At first he thought it was a good idea, but today he says he has no intention of speaking to me ever, seeing me or even getting intimate. I'm not sure what changed his mind, the only thing I can think of, is his guilt or he's ashamed to deal with things.

Unfortunately with his LB's toward me, because it hurts so much to hear these things from someone you still care about, I feel like I need to defend myself. His acquisations are completely false and totally out of the blue. He honestly believes that whenever funky happens, that it's my doing. When I explain that it's not me, he just gets so angry, which gets me angry.

I feel like RJP in his post "Plan B discussion". It's very familiar in that, we also have our ups and downs. Both are afraid that no change will be made and that things will always go back to the way it was. I certainly don't want that, but convincing my H is tough. I just don't want things to get so far gone, so I've got that strangle-hold on it. It's tough to let go, but I know that in the long run, no matter what, that's the best thing to do.

Am I right?

He's on his way over right now and I plan on giving him a "Have a good day" kind of card, with a perfect analogy story of our relationship. It's from a book, the story is called, 'The Life of a Driver', maybe some of you have read it. If not, and would like to, let me know and I'll supply the info.

I hope to hear back from someone!!!

Lemon13 -

You've lost your job, your husband is living elsewhere, and you're in deep trouble. You have my uttermost sympathies. You must be very upset and frightened right now.

So. Take a deep, deep breath and start writing out some notes:

- What do you need financially?
- What do you need in terms of physical living space?
- What do you need emotionally?

Now, don't focus on how impossible that list is. Instead, write out a second list:

- Who are my friends, family, confidants, and supporters, clergy, therapists, doctors?
- How can they help me?

Now... start calling them. Ask for help in any way that they can give it. And tell them, if they don't already know, why you need it. In very gentle words: My husband is in a relationship with X. He is living with her, I've been fired from my job, and we're in dire straits. Can you help?

You're looking for support here and with Cerri, and that's absolutely great. But it's Saturday night and Cerri won't be back until Monday, and none of us here are professionals. Reach out and ask for help from the people around you, the people who are close to you. Try to be as calm about it as you can.

And tomorrow (no matter what day it is), find a place of peace or a place of worship, and sit in it. Open your heart and mind to the Good in that place, and try to carry some of it around with you as you go through the rest of your day. Your spirit sounds worn down. Care for it like a newborn babe right now. It needs you.

Yesterday when my H showed up. We had to handle a few things pertaining to the house and our internet provider. After all that was done, we started talking. Gave him the card I mentioned. I explained that what I wrote and the story are what I'm feeling. His response was, "this is nice, but this is not what I'm feeling or what I want now". He says because of how I've been reacting to things, that is why he is behaving the way he is. My actions provokes his actions/behavior. Which is ironic, because the issues that I have had with him is this exactly. When he would put me down or talk disrespectfully to me, I would shut down, which meant no sex.

I explained that I just needed to let him know these things. We both agreed that we would be honest, not LB, no disrepect, etc. For now that is, I explained that eventually issues about the A need to be discussed. I felt somewhat decent about this conversation, that we actually made some headway. I had plans for the evening, he left, but had to call me a few times during the evening. He's suppose to come back today to replace our hot water heater. Yes, one more thing to the list of crap he left behind for me to deal with.

He was suppose to call this a.m. to let me know what time he would arrive. No call. I tried calling, went to VM. I tried emailing, he replied by saying he would try to arrive by 1:00, that he was having car trouble. Pure BS. Late afternoon he called, first he apologized and then said that maybe he could make it down. By this time, my hurt feelings turned into anger. I told him that he couldn't even go one day in our agreement, that what he did by avoiding me and not taking responsibility about his actions, hurt me. (Did I just LB?) See, I know that my H and the OW are/were together today and he couldn't commit to our plans, he was just a weak man and couldn't tell the OW that he had do take care of house responsibilities.

Yes, I know, you're all saying, suck it up, step up and deal with it yourself, girl. I would if my finances were in better shape, trust me. I promised myself, no more abuse from my H in any way, shape or form. I was on my own, doing everything for myself, before him. But I wasn't a home-owner then. There's so much more to deal with.

He keeps playing these games with me, promises me things, backs out, then turns it around and says I'm crazy, over-reacting. Why am I freaking out about all of this. Well gee let me see, I've gone without a water heater for a week now, he placates me to get his way, makes promises about being here or doing things, then flakes. I explained all of this to him on the phone, in a way that was not in anger and pretty calm, considering. His reaction is to keep hanging up on me, then call back, then hang up, etc.

How can someone get their point across to an individual that interrupts you when you're just explaining your feelings or hangs up on you. There was no reason for him to get so defensive.

I'm lost!! I feel like as long as we have these issues with the house that, that is the only reason I would he hear from him. And the longer he's out there, well you know......

Don't mean to keep going on and on or to be so negative. It's just this Plan is NOT working.

My H did finally show up to deal with house issues. Acted like everything was just peachy. So did I, however I did want to make sure he understood that I was hurt not over-reacting about the way he had handled things earlier.

STayed for awhile, called me when he got to his place, saying how shocked he was that I didn't call him while he was on the way.

O.K. now as for a question or two; I believe certain boundaries need to be established for when we do see each other. Not from the standpoint of recovery in the marriage, because we are not there yet. Other than the obvious (ie. friendly, caring, not LBins). Any suggestions?

Also, I feel like I'm stuck between Plan A and B, in that, my H and the OW are still carrying on like a couple, going about town, etc. So in exposing the A and the how's, I feel is key right now, before it gets any later. I mean he went from splitting up with her for a few days to working things out with her later.

If you read a previous post regarding the exposing issue, you'll understand why I'm puzzled about the best way to do it.

As always, thank you all so very much for any advice.

Cheers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />