Here is my story. I am 38, my wife is 37, we have 2 kids 8 & 6, happily married (so I thought)14 years.

In July, my wife informed me that she had been seeing someone else and that she loved him more than me. She had been seeing him for about 4 months. She said there wasn't anything that I had done or not done, just that she has feelings for this guy that she never knew existed, feelings that she has never had for me. She has not slept with him. She admitted that she knows it is a selfish decision, but she believes that she will be happier in life with this other man rather than with me.

Obviously, I was shocked. I had no clue and even now I cannot see any signs that there was anything going on. My initial response was not anger or yelling, I stated how much I loved her and how much I wanted to be the one to make her happy. We both told family and friends what was going on, so the affair has been exposed. While she has not received any support from her family or friends, it seems to strengthen her determination to prove everyone wrong.

3 weeks later she moved out of the house into an apartment nearby. The kids and I are living in our home. 2 weeks after she moved out, she filed for divorce. She currently has the kids 2 nights a week at her apartment.

Last week I discovered the MB website and began reading the materials. Last Friday, my wife and I completed the Emotional Needs Questionairre to identify the unmet needs that made her succeptable to an affair. The questionairre identified that her 2 greatest needs, Conversation and Affection were not being met by me and I believe are being met by the other man. I expressed my desire to work things out in our marriage, but she has no interest in working on our marriage. She said she would rather have her needs met by this other man than by me. I have expressed to her the pain that her decisions have caused me, our kids, and our families. I have expressed my love for her, I have offered her my forgiveness. I have asked her to stop seeing this other man, but she refuses. None of this seems to matter, she just wants to get with her "new" life.

After reading about Plan A/Plan B, I think I should probably be in plan B now, but here is my delimma. If I cut off all contact her, how will we discuss issues about the kids? My fear is that if I cut off contact with her, she will fight for the kids in the divorce and she will probably win them.

Please help, I'm not sure what I should do now??

Hi Greg,

She said there wasn't anything that I had done or not done, just that she has feelings for this guy that she never knew existed, feelings that she has never had for me.

If you've been reading this site you know that although she probably believes those things, it's most likely revisionist history. When we are in love we can't imagine not feeling that way and as soon as it disappears we can't remember that we ever did.

She has not slept with him.

I would tend to doubt that. According to Glass' research women lie most about sexual involvement and men lie most about emotional attachment. So you get the "we didn't sleep together," or the "it didn't mean anything," stories quite a bit.

She admitted that she knows it is a selfish decision, but she believes that she will be happier in life with this other man rather than with me.

Not a chance.

My initial response was not anger or yelling, I stated how much I loved her and how much I wanted to be the one to make her happy.

Nice job!!!

We both told family and friends what was going on, so the affair has been exposed. While she has not received any support from her family or friends, it seems to strengthen her determination to prove everyone wrong.

So did you tell them that you love your wife, you want to save your marriage and keep your family together and that you would really like their support in doing so?

3 weeks later she moved out of the house into an apartment nearby. The kids and I are living in our home. 2 weeks after she moved out, she filed for divorce. She currently has the kids 2 nights a week at her apartment.

Wow, that was fast.

Last week I discovered the MB website and began reading the materials. Last Friday, my wife and I completed the Emotional Needs Questionairre to identify the unmet needs that made her succeptable to an affair. The questionairre identified that her 2 greatest needs, Conversation and Affection were not being met by me and I believe are being met by the other man.

Yep, that's pretty typical.

I expressed my desire to work things out in our marriage, but she has no interest in working on our marriage. She said she would rather have her needs met by this other man than by me.

Ditto.... While she is involved with someone else it's pretty unlikely that she will be willing to let you meet her most important emotional needs. And it's also pretty likely that her Love Bank is closed to you. You can meet some of the lower on the list needs, but the others she'll shy away from.

What about love busters? Did you talk about those? Anger? Control? Indpendent behavior?

I have expressed to her the pain that her decisions have caused me, our kids, and our families. I have expressed my love for her, I have offered her my forgiveness. I have asked her to stop seeing this other man, but she refuses.

These are all really good steps.

None of this seems to matter, she just wants to get with her "new" life.

Mmmmm... yes.... it's in the script. They all say that.

After reading about Plan A/Plan B, I think I should probably be in plan B now, but here is my delimma.

Well, first... I'm wondering why you are so willing to go to PlB so soon? If it's fairly new and you feel up to staying in PlA, then I think you might want to give that a chance to work. PlB is risky, there's no doubt about it. It's often necessary and I tend to advise sooner rather than later, but this seems really soon, unless there is a piece that I'm not getting.

If I cut off all contact her, how will we discuss issues about the kids?

Through family, would be my suggestion.

My fear is that if I cut off contact with her, she will fight for the kids in the divorce and she will probably win them.

Perhaps, but she did abandon them and the home, that tends to look bad. And more importantly until you are served she hasn't really done anything. Why not wait and see what happens with that and with PlA before going too far down this road.

Please help, I'm not sure what I should do now??

Do you have Surviving an Affair? I would get that. And then tell me about your love busters, what the financial arrangements are now that she is out of the house, and ..... who is this guy that she is seeing? Is he married?

C

Thanks for the reply!!

So did you tell them that you love your wife, you want to save your marriage and keep your family together and that you would really like their support in doing so?

Yes.

Well, first... I'm wondering why you are so willing to go to PlB so soon?

I guess I'm not sure what Part A things I should do right now? What can I do to seperate her from her lover?

Do you have Surviving an Affair?

I ordered it, but haven't received it yet.

And then tell me about your love busters

The only love buster was Disrespectful Judgments. She said that I don't value her opinions and that I think my way is always better than hers.

what the financial arrangements are now that she is out of the house?

I am paying her $800 per month (rent is $725) during the temporary order. She has been a stay-at-home mom for 9 years and is now looking for a job.

who is this guy that she is seeing? Is he married?

He has been divorced for about 3 years. He is 35 and has 50% custody of his 3 kids. He manages a bicycle shop (doesn'y have much $). She met him at the YMCA about 2 years ago and they became friends. It became more than friends in April of this year. He says his ex-wife was abusive (verbally and hitting). My wife knows nothing about this guy other than what he has told her. I asked her if she has talked to his ex-wife and she said no. My wife has met his 3 kids (this is a bit premature if you ask me). I honestly can't see what she see's in this guy, other than he is a good salesman and talker and she believes everything he says.

Well, if you have told her how you feel, if you have exposed the A to everyone you know (have you?), if you are doing what you can to show that you are willing to address the issues in the marriage.... then that IS Plan A.

So hmmmmm...... and she has filed and is meeting his kids.....

It all seems so fast. My brain says go to Plan B but my gut is telling me there is something here that I must be missing. It's all too nice and clean.....

Thoughts?

C

Here is some more info that might be helpful.

I think my wife is so enticed by this "feeling" that it trumps every reasonable, logical argument.

My wife still tells me she loves me (in a different way), we still hug, she still calls me at least once a day. Right now I think I am meeting most of her emotional needs and the other man is meeting the few I am not.

So right now, she has the best of both worlds, an apartment she doesn't have to pay for, freedom to do what she wants, talk/see him whenever she wants, she still spends time with the kids, and she still has contact with me. Right now there hasn't been much consequence for her decision, other than people thinking bad things about her, and I think she writes that off as people not understanding her feelings. I think she thinks she will prove everyone wrong when they see how happy she will be in her new life. She even wants me to be happy for her.

She has talked about marrying the other man, they have discussed doing things with his kids and our kids, etc....

This behavior is so out of character for my wife. We are both very religious and I thought the Bible itself would be enough to guilt her out of it. She thinks she can do whatever she wants to and God will forgive her in the end.

She has told me that this is her decision, that the other man has not manipulated or encouraged in any way.

Should I continue to talk to her every day?
Should I still hug her?
Should I let her visit the house/kids whenever she pleases?
Should I try to show her that I can meet her emotional needs of converation and affection?

Greg,

I would be dollars to donuts, this affair started earlier than April. AT the least it was an EA before that, long before that.

I would also suggest that you see a lawyer and get yourself protected and squared away in case she does file. She is eating cake, and I think from what you have said you have been in Plan A. I am guessing that plan B is fairly near. I will be interested in what Cerri says. One final thing, do your homework on Plan B NOW. Part of that is seeing a lawyer to protect yourself, and checking out who can be the third party to deal with your W and children.

When you decide to do plan B, it is best to do it quickly and with no warning, but that takes planning and preparation especially with children. How old are your kids anyway??

Must go, I am interested in Cerri's response to this.

God Bless,

JL

Hi Greg (and JL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Ok, I was going to say exactly the same thing. The timing is off. It's too fast, too far and too planned for this to have just begun in April. If I was a betting chick, I would say that's when the physical affair began. And yes I know she says there isn't one. No one moves out, files for D, and plans to marry someone for whom they just have feelings.

I think my wife is so enticed by this "feeling" that it trumps every reasonable, logical argument.

Well yes, that would be the earmark of an addiction. The feelings that she has creates a similar response in the brain to other pleasure producing substances. And in so doing it overrules other more rational thought processes. We can (and should!) be addicted to our spouses, but when that is the case the decisions we make are for the preservation of the marriage and the family.... not the destruction of those things.

My wife still tells me she loves me (in a different way), we still hug, she still calls me at least once a day.

Yes, that would be one of the universal signs of an affair also. It says that she is comparing the feelings she has for you to the feelings she has for this other guy and that the passion and romance she is experiencing with him no longer exist in your marriage. That's generally not a conclusions we come to unless we have something against which to compare.

Right now I think I am meeting most of her emotional needs and the other man is meeting the few I am not.

I would agree with that 100%.

So right now, she has the best of both worlds, an apartment she doesn't have to pay for, freedom to do what she wants, talk/see him whenever she wants, she still spends time with the kids, and she still has contact with me.

Mmmmmm..... yes....

Right now there hasn't been much consequence for her decision, other than people thinking bad things about her, and I think she writes that off as people not understanding her feelings. I think she thinks she will prove everyone wrong when they see how happy she will be in her new life. She even wants me to be happy for her.

Sounds like your wife could be my double many years ago. My A was much the same.

She has talked about marrying the other man, they have discussed doing things with his kids and our kids, etc....

Yeah.... see this says far more familiarity than just a few months. This has been going on for a while.

This behavior is so out of character for my wife. We are both very religious and I thought the Bible itself would be enough to guilt her out of it. She thinks she can do whatever she wants to and God will forgive her in the end.

When people have affairs they can find all sorts of ways to rationalize what they are doing. A local pastor.... you remember the scandal at Grace Church in ...was it Eden Prairie or Edina??... anyway, had an A with a parishoner and tried to show that it was the will of god.... pointed out biblical passages to prove his point.

She has told me that this is her decision, that the other man has not manipulated or encouraged in any way.

Have you confronted him? Do you know how to do that?

Should I continue to talk to her every day?
Should I still hug her?
Should I let her visit the house/kids whenever she pleases?
Should I try to show her that I can meet her emotional needs of converation and affection?

More than anything that depends on your feelings and how you are doing. The PlA that you have done is excellent. The only question I would have is there anyone you have not told that you should?

I probably have the reputation of being a jump the gun Plan Ber... and it's true, I think PlB sooner rather than later is a good thing. An essesntial thing. But it's not about punishing her or making her face consequences. It's about protecting you. So if you are doing well and feeling ok... not like you're going crazy and not as if you are beginning hate her... I would say you have some PlA left in you. At the same time, I like to see that PlB starts when PlA is at it's height and not when you are tired and cranky and love busting.....

I guess it's a judgment call. And it's all about you.... how are you doing?

C

Have you confronted him? Do you know how to do that?

I haven't confronted him yet. I have thought about it, but I'm not quite sure what I should say.

how are you doing?

I'm doing fine. I'm not going crazy or anything. I still love her with with all my heart. Obviously, I think the choices she is making are so wrong at every level, but especially harmful to the kids and myself. I am more concerned with the effect this will have on the kids than I am worried about myself.

The hardest thing for me to reconcile in my mind right now is that she is so unwilling to to put any effort into our marriage. I told her tonight that it seems like she's turning off our marriage like you turn off a light switch when you exit a room. She said that since she has found this new man and has been loved by him that she is unwilling to let me try to love her the same way.

I have to agree with what Cerri and JL are saying. Cerri you may not know me, I generally live on the recovery board.

Greg , I think you have hit on a very important point - thus far the consequences of her actions are freedom from responsibility, two men competing for her attention, not losing her kids. Frankly, it does not suck to be her right now.

Let me lead by saying that I am extremely harsh on fog-bound WS's and for a very good reason - I was one until I saw the pain I had caused and the looming loss of the person who really mattered to me on D-Day.

Affairs are very much an illusion, in a marriage you have a foundation of shared experiences over time, shared responsibilities and the benefit/negative of the relationship existing in the REAL world. Affairs are very much fantasyland. Bikeshopman has the advantage of having been on best behavior thus far. What I am going to suggest to you may sound very painful and I'd like to hear Cerri's thoughts.

Unfortunately, the speed of this thing is unbelievable - this did NOT just happen, it was planned. Divorces can take a very, very, very very long time if you drag your heels. IF you allow her to push the thing through then in 6 months she may wake up and it is too late.

Strategy 1: Stalllllllllllllllll...

Second, those children are not hers my friend. Do not be overly quick to believe you can't win in this situation if it comes to that. She has visions of picnics in her Brady Bunch fantasy world. OOOps.
Strategy 2: Protect the kiddos. OM does not come near them or spend the night, this is EASY to get an order for in any Court I have seen, I have seen several. It is the default position of family courts that what mom and dad want is secondary to best interests. NO court thinks meeting the new BF right away is good for the logical reasons. You can get this into the orders.

General Plan: Thus far life with Bikey is just friggin peachy, nothing has popped up to give her a reality check. If she gets a drive-thru divorce and sets up house with Bikeshop boy and his kids guess what? Reality is going to hit her forehead with a thwack we'll here online. 5 kids, new relationship, financial stress, bye-bye alimony when they move in together? The likely result is chaos. THAT scares me for the sake of the kids.

So... let him have her (for a little while) but the kids don't go with the deal and you SLOW this divorce down - you CAN drag it out for 2 years in all likelihood. If she wants him 2 years from now then you are out of luck. Most affairs - especially if real life issues burst the bubble - fail quickly

Here is what i would suggest - toss a big wrench into the works and DO NOTHING to facilitate her divorce plans. Ask the court to order counseling - many will. Ask the court to ban OM from the kids - 99% will. Drag your feet and delay, delay, delay - do exactly what you are doing - loving, kind, patient - but not accomodating. If the affair and divorce proceed you need to go 100% all out for primary conservatorship. She is not acting like a fit mother, she is acting like a spoiled child who wants what she wants. Depending on venue, there is a good chance her infidelity (which needs documenting, tape her, get letters, have them followed - whatever) will put her in a terrible position with the court. Guess what? being male no longer means defeat, courts are understanding reality. Ties go to mom, 55-45 goes to mom, 70-30 goes to Dad.

Thre is nothing you can do to force her into coming home. There is something you can do to level the field - plan B or a modification thereof. She thinks that she can have OM and retain you as her buddy, maybe best man at ehr wedding, reality check please. Continue to let her know that you believe her behavior is flat out WRONG and NOT acceptable under any circumstances - don't be sweet. DO NOT lose your temper with pending court dates.
DO let her see the reality of the other man.

I wish i had something more eloquent to say than "Gee, your situation sucks". Well, it does but there is hope here. Breaking the addiction might well be best aided by a combination of your not being her friend while she behaves this way and letting her see the reality of OM.
Another reality that will interrupt her dream would be your putting your foot down regarding the kids - she CAN'T start her little blended family for a couple years - I will bet you that you can get this into the orders EASILY and you CAN slow a divorce way down.
"Your honor, I would like to continue this case for 90 days while the parties undergo court-ordered counseling to determine whether the marriage can be restored in the interests of the children" Judges response? Sounds good. Fast divorces with court-ordered custody arrangements end up back on the docket every 6 months for years to come - they will WANT you two to work it out. Your position remains "The best arrangement would be for you to stop committing adultery and return home, dear". In 90 days "Your honor, Mrs remains firm in her stance that she would like a divorce, respondant would like to have a social study and mediation ordered to better determine the best interests of the children" 120 days, easy. Slow it down.

What's happening in the love nest during this time? Wife is stressed! OM is really inconvenienced, he wants to go out to dinner, she has to go to counseling. He wants to take a vacation, she has a court date. He wants to take your children to meet his parents, your restraining order prevents it - and the judge chews him out for it. See where i am going? it ain't so peachy any longer. Uh-oh, your wife has a ridiculously difficult husband who will make his life tough for the next umpteen years... hmmmm.... She is stressed out and afraid of losing her kids? Hmmmmmmm...... Can't see her when she has the kids? Hmmmmmmmmm...
She spent an hour in counseling with you? Hmmmmmmm wonder what was said and if she is going to return home? Hmmmmmmm Adding stress like that will do for his passion what water does for your gas mileage.

Real life is a real pain in the rear - they have yet to experience that - be a thorn in their plans kindly, rationally and without fighting with her. Dig up some dirt on OM if it exists. For about $100 you can learn a LOT on the internet. DUI's? Drugs? Jaywalking? he is divorced? Bingo, get a copy of his XW's complaint or cross-complaint - did she allege anything but ID? With his 50% custody deal it may be amicable but check. Subpoena her if need be. Depositions prior to trial? 4 more months. Interrogatories? 2 months. Pre-trial motions? 2 months. Final hearing date? Gee your honor, I have an opening in my calendar for a 4 months from now.

Be a pain in the rear, lets see hwo the happy couple handles stress.

Prayers and best wishes.
2.

Hi Greg and 2ofakind....nice to meet ya!

I have only a few minutes so I'm just gonna do the neccessities and not my usual glut of words.

Here is how you confront him... and yes you need to do this. You say, "I understand that you are having an affair with my wife. I love my wife, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to save my marriage and to keep my family together. Her relationship with you is making that impossible. Please do the right thing, respect our marriage and our family and end this thing with her."

Now, you can bet that he will laugh, get angry or in some other way blow you off. But he cannot un-hear what you have told him. And this kind of confrontation creates some level of conflict in their relationship. Even if the conflict is a conversation about what a bad guy you are, it's still conflict and that is good.

When you do this confrontation it is IMPERATIVE that you remain calm, courteous and respectful. If you cannot do that in person or on the phone then send an email. Under no circumstances can you do this and lose your temper.

If you haven't already read some of the posts about PlA and PlB that I have to others on this board. There's quite a bit there about confrontation and exposing.

2ofaKind.... I agree that there should be an end to having the best of both worlds. I also like to see PlA given a chance to work. There is something about this whole situation that, at least as it's presented, is not the usual story. I can't put my finger on what it is, but because it is bothering my little brain and because Greg seems to be doing ok I want to err on the side of PlA for a little longer.

Plan B - however much it may be presented on the boards as such - is NOT a strategy to punish or heap consequences on the unfaithful partner. It's stated goal is to protect the betrayed spouse from further pain. If other things occur because of PlB, then so be it, but that's not the goal.

C

Greg,

I really like what Cerri suggests about OM and confrontation. WRT the divorce proceedings I think that dragging your heels will magnify the effect of confronting OM.

I would be very, very careful about confronting OM in person - you sound incredibly level-headed right now but unless you are a Vulcan you must be feeling a LOT right now. Suggestion - pretend that the Judge who has your case is listening, there is nothing wrong with taping it. $15 for a little tape recorder can turn an unfair accusation that you 'threatened' him into a total loss of credibility later.
WHATEVER his reaction DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT lose your temper!!!! Calm, polite and steadfast is perfect. Having a friend watch is not a bad idea either. Many years ago in the same situation I handled a confrontation like this poorly - XW's new man decided to take a swing at me, he was about 40 pounds lighter than me and did not have a daughter in the game - results were not good, learn from my immaturity :-)

Thinking through what Cerri is saying and it makes very good sense - she is not withdrawn from you and she does not want to lose you completely - steadfastly repeating that it is time for her to come home to her marriage makes sense.

I also think something here does not make sense, the only thing I can figure is that they had long discussions and 'thought' out plans for a fast divorce and getting on with 'thier' life. If you toss a wrench into those plans by not laying down for the divorce and opposing it - the RIGHT way without losing your temper it throws more conflict into their affair - in fact it throws some real adversity their way because up to now their 'plans' have gone off perfectly.

Good luck and PLEASE keep that balance you are showing, love your kids and hang in there. This too shall pass.

2oK..... agree, agree, agree, agree..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C

Thank you to everyone for your advice and support.

I will confront bikeshopboy soon. I think I will confront him in person, since he works in retail, I can stop by the store. I also think my physical presence there will mean much more than a phone call or letter.

I do have a few follow-up questions.

My mom and sister haven't spoken with my wife since she broke the news in July. Do you think they should talk to her?

While I'm still in Plan A are there any other dos and don'ts I should follow?

I totally agree with all the advice posted her. I have a question, though. Why are you paying several hundred dollars per month for her apartment? You mentioned something about an order? Please clarify because she is having her cake and eating it too - very unfair. Any enabling factors encouraging her misconduct should be eliminated. I have no problem with family members confronting her - even trusted friends might help. She is in fantasy land and must face reality. Since you guys believe in the Bible are you getting pastoral counseling? Are you involved in a men's group for support? I would confront OM immediately - time is of the essence since everything is moving so fast. God bless!

I have a question, though. Why are you paying several hundred dollars per month for her apartment? You mentioned something about an order? Please clarify
The temporary order is in effect during the mandatory 4 month waiting period (Wisconsin law) from the time the divorce case is filed until the final order is granted. Wisconsin is a "no-fault" state. My fear is that if she fought for physical custody of the kids and won, I would have to pay her $2500/mo in child support, we would lose our home and I would lose custody of the kids. Since she has agreed for me to have physical custody of the kids, I agreed to pay her rent during the waiting period.

Are you getting pastoral counseling?

We have met a few times with our pastor, but she has totally rejected the advice and warnings from our pastor. She believes that she can do whatever she wants (even disobey God's law and His will), confess her sins, and live happily ever after in a "christian" marriage with the OM. The OM's father is a Lutheran pastor by the way. I attribute her current beliefs to the "fog" she is living in. Originally she tried to tell me that she felt this was God's will for life, only recently she retracted this statement and recognized that it is not God's will, but she says what about my feelings. She continued to come to church with me until 2 weeks ago. After discussions with our pastor, I asked her not to attend if her mind and heart were closed to the will and words of God. I told her I felt like a hypocrite with her sitting next to me and I said I can't imagine how you feel.

Are you involved in a men's group for support?

We were in a couples small group together and I am continuing to attend the couples group alone. I am also continuing to meet with our pastor weekly.