Hi!

I found this site by accident after looking for information and guidance on how to deal with my husband's affair. I don't really know where to turn for help. I do not have any family here; my family lives in Europe. I have friends, but I feel ashamed to talk about what happened.

I found out about my husband's relationsship with another woman through a document on his computer where he had saved an IM conversation between both of them. He often gets on the computer late at night when I'm asleep. I think deep inside I've know for a long time that something was not right and maybe I should have brought it up to him a long time ago.

We have problems in our marriage; mainly sexual and often we have both ignored those problems and swept them under the rug and acted like nothing was wrong. It was a bomb waiting to explode. We are attracted to each other. I find my husband very attractive and I feel like I'm an attractive woman. I'm slim, people say that I''m very pretty, I take care of myself, dress nice and I feel sexy. My first experiences with sex as a teenager were not good, mainly violent and sometimes having intercourse can be painful for me and sometimes I feel scared about intimacy. I have been through counseling and for a while things were better, but it was a lot of work for both my husband and myself. I guess, we resigned at one time working on it. We still have sex, but I could tell that it was not as satisfying for him as it should be. We also do not have children, mainly because of my problems and this is very painful for me. We have been married 14 years and I would love to have a little baby and be a Mom.

About eight years ago, my husband met a woman through work and they had a 'friendship' (as he calls it), but then he said that she was his soulmate and we separated briefly. I told him that he had to make a choice between her and me. He chose me and it took a long time to get better. Things were going good after a few years, but then life caught up with us again. We were having sex less and less often; I had pain again during intercourse and he didn't want to hurt me. He then deployed overseas for about nine months. During this time, he got in contact again with the same woman. I did not know about it. She sent him letters and packages and they exchanged emails. The contact continued after he returned to the United States. Last week, I found the IM conversation that was saved in a Word Document. In this email, he tells her that he loves her, that somehow, somewhere they are meant to be together etc. It was so difficult for me to read all this. I confronted him and he said that they are friends,nothing more. He said that they have not had sex or anything. He said that she needed his support because she was going through a lot, she was very ill at one time and he was there to cheer her up and make her feel better. He said that she is engaged to someone else and living with her boyfriend who is very involved in his work and has little time for her.

He said that he knew that I would eventually find out and that maybe it was good because he said that he doesn't know why things between him and her have gotten so out of control and it was probably time to stop. He wants to make our marriage work and even go to counseling if that is what it takes to make it work.

I'm so confused right now. I feel nothing but pain. I can't eat or concentrate. Everybody around me is worried, but I can't tell them. I feel embarrassed and ashamed.

When I ask him questions about the affair and the woman, he does not want to talk about it.

We have had sex a few times since I found out about all this. I don't know why I did it; for some reason sex was really good, but deep inside I hurt.

He said that he wrote her an email and told her that I found out and that they cannot go on like this anymore and he said that she replied that she is so sorry and didn't want to cause this pain and she hopes that things will work out for us. I don't know if I can believe this? How do I know that they are not still in contact? I found out her name, address, phone etc., but I did not contact her. I didn't think it was okay to do that. I don't want to come across as the jealous, controlling wife. At first I told him that I was going to contact her, but he said that I should not do that because it would not help or solve anything, but make things worse for her and us. I know that this is between HIM and ME.

I would really appreciate any input or advice from anybody on this board. I've read a few messages and I feel that you might understand what I'm feeling right now. I have nowhere else to turn.

So sorry ..... such a sad story.

I noticed you had been betrayed earlier in your M. Same OW. I suspect this A has been going on for 8 years, with perhaps a short "vacation" from the affair, but that it never really ended.

I also noticed you said:

"He chose me and it took a long time to get better."

Does this mean that after the first D day there was NO post-affair marital counseling ? I suspect this might be the case, because you indicated that you are both conflict avoiders.

"acted like nothing was wrong"

Do you have functional vocal cords? Do you have any speech impediment? No? Then speak up for yourself! What are YOU afraid of?

Time for YOU to take responsibility for YOUR own life! This conflict is YOUR challenge. This conflict is an opportunity for you to grow as a woman. Do NOT avoid any part of this conflict. Look this conflict in the eye and it will lose it's power over you.

Your history of passive non-reaction might be the part of you that drives your H toward another woman!

You are right now totally unprotected in your marriage. Your H is not protecting you .... and YOU are not protecting you.

You are timid and scared, and hiding your pain for fear of feeling ashamed. Take your fear of facing the facts... and kick it out the door. This has no place in your life as an adult. You are not a child. Don't hide like a child. Hiding from facts has NO PLACE in an adult woman's life! Life is full of conflict and unpleasant issues .... and hiding gets you what? A second D day with the same OW ....

Here's a fact. Your "old" marriage is gone. Destroyed. And good riddence to it ... because the "old" M kept both of you in a place where you could not be REAL with each other. Tip-toeing around and pretending there is no elephant in the room ..... when there is a HUGE elephant in the room!

Get these books:

*Tough Love* by Dr, James Dobson .... also get *Surviving an Affair* by Dr. Harley. Read them. Only share the SAA book with your H.

Get going. You are stuck in the frightened little girl-mouse mode .... and your H is not going to feel sexual love and husbandly devotion to a girl-mouse.

BE A TIGRESS!!!!!!

sleek
sexy
smart
and a little bit dangerous <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Become different ..... stretch and grow .... be adventurous ....

and use the vocal cords God gave you!!!!

This is an awful thing that's happened in your marriage (notice I did not say "happened to you"?) .... but USE this awful thing as an ignition switch to start your engine .... throw your H a few unexpected curves. He thinks he can predict your next move, because you've been a girl-mouse .... well he's about to find a tigress where the mouse used to be.

roar baby, roar

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

PS ..... when I asked you what you are afraid of ..... here's what I think your afraid of ..... your inner tigress. She scares you.

Thank you for your honest reply. Everything that you said about me in your post is true.

I'm afraid to face this conflict because I'm afraid of his rejection, but then I know that I have really nothing to loose because at this moment my marriage is dead.

I'm afraid to be alone; I'm afraid to start all over again. I got married when I was only 20 years old. In January it will be 14 years.

Four weeks ago, my husband bought me a beautiful diamond ring. We had little money when we got married and at that time, we did not have the money to buy expensive jewelry and wedding rings. I was so surprised and I loved this ring. He wanted me to show it to all my friends, co-workers etc. Why did he buy this ring? He said that I deserved it because I'm sweet and I've been a good wife. I just don't understand.

If he loves this other woman, then why is he not with her?

He said that it is a fantasy for both of them, escaping reality. Life at home is boring, routine, bills, work... She has problems, he has problems, but he said when they talk, it helps him escape reality.

I try not to cry; it's hard. I feel hurt and I want to throw things. I want to scream and yell at him.

To answer your question regarding counseling, we did NOT go to post-affair counseling. I went to counseling by myself for my problems regarding vaginismus and it definitely helped, but he didn't want to go with me even though the counselor asked several times.

I told him yesterday that I would like for us to go to counseling together and he said that he would go if that's what it took for us to stay together and save the marriage.

I'm very honest when I say that I'm very very afraid right now.

Kati

I am so sorry you hve to be here, but it is probably the best place possible to help you recover. I understand how difficult it can be when you live in a "foreign" country. I recognized problems in our marriage when we were living overseas, but it is difficult to find good marriage counseling in your mother tongue in another country, so I thought we could wait. My wife's affair started soon after that.

I have tried to compile a fairly complete yet concise list of what helped us the most in recovery. Click on the link in my signature line to find out more.

Thank you. I am definitely interested in marriage counseling and I believe that my command of the English language is good enough for me to understand and be helped by a counselor.

I have good friends here, but I don't feel ready to share this information with them. I feel that my husband and I are both at fault when it comes to the destruction of our marriage. This does not excuse his affair, but maybe my problems with sexuality were not easy to deal with either. I realize that. I can't help having pain and I know he did not want to force sex on me and cause me physical pain.

Family is constantly asking us about offspring (not wonder, after 14 years...) and he feels that he's put on the spot. It's hard.

Thank you for sharing your recovery information with me.

Kati

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kati:
<strong>Thank you. I am definitely interested in marriage counseling and I believe that my command of the English language is good enough for me to understand and be helped by a counselor.</strong>

Your writing is better than 99 percent of the Americans I know, so I'm sure that isn't an issue.

At some point you will have to tackle the SF issue. I know in my case, the lack of sexual fulfillment was a big issue in the downturn in my marriage. Once I went through the Harley counseling and we started communicating on the issue, the problem went away fairly quickly.

If vaginal sex is painful, there are other ways. Anal doesn't hurt. <Joking>. But there are other ways to "relieve the pressure" with him, oral, manual, etc. What does your doctor say about the vaginal sex issue? Perhaps there is something that could be done there.

You should understand that often with men, it isn't just the sex they miss but the accompanying closeness and affection. Okay, I lied, it's mostly the sex, but the other stuff is there for brownie points as well.

Initiate SF as much as you can, at different times, AM, afternoon, etc. I suspect you will see an immediate response from him.

Thank you for your posting, Mike. I've been to several doctors and therapists and it has gotten better. There is 'technically' nothing wrong with me, it is just that I clamp up during intercourse a lot and it can make intercourse painful or even impossible. My first sexual intercourse was not voluntary and there are some other instances, so the therapist thinks that might have something to do with my reaction to sex. But nobody really knows what would cause it. It's involuntary - that's what makes it so hard. I decided to not dwell on the causes anymore, but rather work on the solution in overcoming this problem.

We actually have sex quite often, in other ways, but I think it really bothered my husband that intercourse was so painful for me or impossible at times. Instead of dealing with the issue and working on it, we BOTH swept it under the rug. He said that he was satisfied with the other ways of sex, but now I really do not believe that. I think he did not want to hurt my feelings because he knows how sensitive the subject is for me. During the last few days, we have had sex a lot and for some reason it worked without pain and we had a great time together. It was pleasurable for both of us. I felt so good about myself. He says that this is a big step for us and afterwards he told me that he was thinking about it all day and he seemed happy.

I think that in a sexual way, I can now find MY way to recovery. I don't know if it will be enough though to rekindle my husband's love for me again.

Kati

"I'm afraid to face this
because I'm afraid
I'm afraid to be alone;
I'm afraid to start all over again.
I'm very very afraid right now. "

Does this sound like a woman or a little girl?

1. "I am afraid to face this" So spit on your fear and try on a different hat! You either face this or you ...... what? Don't face this and live the rest of your life quivering?

2. "because I'm afraid" I wanted you to see how many times you give yourself a weak message. Don't you think your H is tired of living with a woman built on a foundation of her fears rather than her strengths?

3. "I'm afraid to be alone" Aren't you more afraid of true intimacy? Being truely intimate and letting go of fear (in the bedroom) is THE BASIS for OVERCOMING vaginismis. This fear-filled attitude is your sexual hangup.

4. "I'm afraid to start all over again" Why? Don't you trust yourself? I have news for you .... you are NOT afraid to start all over again .... you're afraid to let go of your fears because it has become your wall that defends you from true intimacy. If you do NOT start all over again, you will never truely be intimate.

5. "I'm very afraid right now" And I say .... again, SPIT on your fear.

Now here's a different question you might poke yourself with .... why aren't you MAD AS HELL ??? .... hmmmmm?

What's wrong with getting mad?
What's right with getting mad?
What would letting go of your fear mean .... that you'd feel your anger full force?

Think it over.

Where is your Tigress, let her out, I'd like to meet her.

Pep

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ September 24, 2003, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

" During the last few days, we have had sex a lot and for some reason it worked without pain and we had a great time together. It was pleasurable for both of us. "

And do you know why sex was sexier for you just recently?

Because your anger crept inside you just enough to push some of that little girl fear out!

Here's an idea, tell your H you'd like to blindfold him tonight.

Strip him naked, and place a blindfold tightly over his eyes (so he can't peek).

Then find your sexual tigress and let her have sex with H. You might feel safer doing this the first time if he is blindfolded .... if he'd allow you to tie his hands too .... that would be even better (but, I think it's pushing just a bit)

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

" My first sexual intercourse was not voluntary

This is a very timid girl's way of saying :

Damn it .... I was raped!

Say it. The rape only has power over you because you are afraid to call it by it's real name.

Say what happened to you .... use the real word, not the mouse's words.

Pep

<small>[ September 24, 2003, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>Say what happened to you .... use the real word, not the mouse's words.</strong>

Yo, Pepperband, you are harshing my buzz. Have some compassion.

Dear Kati,

I don´t want you to feel overwhelmed by the manly advice you have gotten here, which is why I come in to "save" you as a woman.

Reading your posts, I do not think Pepperband is far from the truth. If your vaginilism is due to what Pepperband implies on being raped, then I sympathise with the pain and agony you have been through and the walls you have created for yourself in order to protect yourself so you would not be victimized again.

If it is not due to that then I again sympathise with whatever it is that has caused you to punish yourself and not set yourself free from your fears and be a woman of your own right.

Your words do come over to me as a scared little girl, who does not dare face the world and the responsibilities that come with life.

You have a power within you to change. A power to set yourself free and a power to make yourself happy. You have an amazing power. Your WH did not leave you first time around and he is implying he won´t leave you now. Start using your power. You have got it. Take control. Be mad. Stand up for yourself. Tell him if he doesn´t get his act together he is gone.

Let the tigress run free. Not to forget about the Harleys principles here, but Plan A your WH in a strong controlling way. Allow him into your fantasy world, allow yourself into your fantasy world. Open a new Kati world for him he knows is there and has only been hoping for to see it. Open Kati up for yourself!

Kati, start taking control of yourself, let go of the scared hurt little girl and free your woman!
Its in there somewhere, and maybe this is the wake up call you needed to let her out!

-queen-

P.S
I am not saying that his affair is your fault only. It is his choice completely. 100%. It has been his choice and it his responsibility. I am saying that all of us BS have helped create an environment that has allowed our WS to wander. The faults to that can be beared 50/50%, we carry that responsibility equally. If we want to save or marriage, it is up to both the WS/BS to change what went wrong if we want a stronger, better marriage...

Read all you can on this site, there are alot of wise words. I think Pepperband often comes with some very precise and wise advice, and though his words may seem very intimidating, I think he might be right!

God speed

This is the most honest that anyone has ever talked to me before and as sad as it is, everything that you have written about me is so true. It's almost scary because you don't even know me, but I suppose written words can reveal a lot about a person. I'm glad I came here.

Last night I spent several hours sitting in my car thinking about what you have told me. It is time for the woman to come out.

Well, she did and it was not very pretty at first. The result was a busted door, broken dishes, newspapers, a great dinner and a night of pretty wild sex.

We even managed to talk a bit about what happening, however he still seems very reluctant to share any information. I do not wish to know any details about their relationship, however I told him that I no longer want him to have contact with her. He said that he feels that the connection between us has been lost and the spark, but he said that he is physically attracted to me and my body.

This morning, he was very different towards me; he seemed loving, talked about going on a trip with me.

I told him that if he does not stop contact to her then he will have to leave.

Kati

And do you know why sex was sexier for you just recently?

Because your anger crept inside you just enough to push some of that little girl fear out! True, I actually like sex wild and a bit rough. It's not easy to admit though.

Here's an idea, tell your H you'd like to blindfold him tonight.

Strip him naked, and place a blindfold tightly over his eyes (so he can't peek).

Then find your sexual tigress and let her have sex with H. You might feel safer doing this the first time if he is blindfolded .... if he'd allow you to tie his hands too .... that would be even better (but, I think it's pushing just a bit)

I will try that.

Kati

Say what happened to you .... use the real word, not the mouse's words.

Yes, I was RAPED at 14 years old and it really sucks. It's the worst thing that can happen to a woman. I hate it; I hate that this happened to me.

Pep[/QB][/QUOTE]

Dear Queen,

Your words do come over to me as a scared little girl, who does not dare face the world and the responsibilities that come with life.

For some reason, I'm like this mainly within the relationship and sex. I'm well educated, I have a good job and I'm able to build caring and lasting friendships with good people. I'm very responsible in those areas. I take care of all of our bills; I clean the house; I even do small repairs etc. I feel like my husband's mother at times. I don't want it this way, but I feel that if I don't take care of finances etc. then all will go to hell.

Tell him if he doesn´t get his act together he is gone.

I told him that last night.

Let the tigress run free. Not to forget about the Harleys principles here, but Plan A your WH in a strong controlling way. Allow him into your fantasy world, allow yourself into your fantasy world. Open a new Kati world for him he knows is there and has only been hoping for to see it. Open Kati up for yourself!

Sometimes I feel sexually attracted to other men and I've even had the wildest fantasies about it. I never acted on it and I probably never would. I love my husband, but I feel terribly guilty about those fantasies.

maybe this is the wake up call you needed to let her out!

Maybe it is, Queen.

I think Pepperband often comes with some very precise and wise advice, and though his words may seem very intimidating, I think he might be right!

His words are not intimidating to me, Queen. He described me like nobody else ever has before.

Kati

God speed[/QB][/QUOTE]

He is a she ...

I am woman ...

hear me roar

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sometimes I feel sexually attracted to other men and I've even had the wildest fantasies about it. I never acted on it and I probably never would. I love my husband, but I feel terribly guilty about those fantasies.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do not feel guilty about your fantasies, everyone has them. Some more than others. Some wilder than others. They harm absolutely no-one. Sharing your fantasies with your husband might also be a good thing, as long as he does not feel threatened by them. But of course it would be wise to hear him out first, whether he was willing to hear them, let you share them. Say how vulnerable it might make you feel to share your innermost private thoughts. It might bring you closer than you ever imagined.

You could tell him how you yourself feel about your fantasies, guilt, excitement...It will help him to build a picture of the sexual WOMAN you have been probably trying to deny yourself for a very long time, because of the hurt little girl that lives within you.

Its maybe time to talk to the little hurt girl within you as a woman, and tell her that its time she pulled back, time to say a quiet goodbye and time to allow you, the amazing woman that you are to take over instead of the girl...

-queen-

Sorry Pepperband, was not meant to give you a cyber sex change... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-queen-

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Queen of a broken heart:
Sharing your fantasies with your husband might also be a good thing, as long as he does not feel threatened by them. But of course it would be wise to hear him out first, whether he was willing to hear them, let you share them. Say how vulnerable it might make you feel to share your innermost private thoughts. It might bring you closer than you ever imagined.

Well, some of them I would definitely not want to share with him; my husband is VERY conservative and he would probably look at me like I'm a crazy woman. ;-) But, I would definitely like to try some news things.

You could tell him how you yourself feel about your fantasies, guilt, excitement...It will help him to build a picture of the sexual WOMAN you have been probably trying to deny yourself for a very long time, because of the hurt little girl that lives within you.

I will try to be more open and honest about the real ME to him. He loves the 'sweetness' in me. I hate being thought of as a sweet girl.

Its maybe time to talk to the little hurt girl within you as a woman, and tell her that its time she pulled back, time to say a quiet goodbye and time to allow you, the amazing woman that you are to take over instead of the girl...

It's going to be a long road, but I want to work on this. No love relationship that I will ever have will work out (including my marriage)if I cannot stop this behaviour.

I appreciate your comments.

Kati