Things are ok - got a little sleep last night (5 hours or so) - moved back to our room. Had long discussion in evening that seemed to me to move to quickly to the what I had done wrong that made her seek emotional support somewhere else. I know we have to address that, but I am still (its only been since Wednesday when I moved from suspicion to confirmation) having a hard time getting past her betrayal of me and feel like it is being offered up to easily like a "you hurt me so I hurt you thing." I say "feel" that way because intellectually I don't necessarily think that but emotionally is another thing. It ridiculous but I feel like she should be saying "I am sorry" over and over about every hour. That's not happening. I guess communicating remorse is hard to do - but without theatrics it leaves the questioning. I guess even with theatrics it does as she "acted" and covered up the affair. It all comes back to the complete loss of trust and wanting it back but not knowing where to start. I do enjoy being with the kids and she wants things to stay as normal as possible for them - they can Feel there is tension but not a lot else as far as I know. That created a problem last night when she gave permission to our son to visit a friend rather late so that he didn't get home unitil late. I was wanting to talk with her and it delayed that about an hour. So of course in random fashion I was angry at her but took it out on him with an irrational stern lecture. I know that wasn't good - but it is so hard to want to get very angry - yell and scream - at the injustice of the betrayal and know that it won't accomplish anything long term. Its all very pent up. So I apologized to my son this morning and work has provided a little bit of a respite.

L4AA

I know how you feel. My wife acted like I betrayed HER. She was so smug, so "in your face" about it. She kept telling me that what she did and was doing was not meant to be against me but rather for her. Whatever the hell that means. I think what she meant was that for 5 yrs now she has felt like she has been giving everything she has to everyone around her (me and the kids) with little or nothing in return. It was time for her to say "screw this, it's time for me!" If you've read anything about the giver and the taker, this was her taker completly running the show, case closed. She still hasn't apologized, I have about a hundred times, but she hasn't.

Most women, I don't think, would go looking for an affair. There would have to be something pretty wrong with the marriage from their point of view. Furthermore, I think that the vast majority of women tell their husbands about million times what the problem is before they get to the point that they think their H just doesn't get it or care. I can't back any of that up, just what I gathered from the stories here and what my wife has said to me. So it stands to reason that the conversation is going to be more about what you did wrong than what she did. My wife has told me several times that if she leaves and we get divorced, it has nothing to do with the OM. I see the A as a symptom of how bad the marriage was for the W. Not that it is a just excuse for her actions or that I blame myself totally for this, but that is how I cope with it. Get used to hearing how rotten the marriage was for her or how you where never there for her when she needed you...didn't listen to her...so on and so on. And, I think if you want to fix things, you need to really listen to what she is saying and fix the problems...those are the LB's that drove her to this point...in my humble opinion. Just a thought.

I know you want to get mad, feel free to vent here, but NOT to your wife and not to the kids. As you said, they can feel the tension and if you start going off on them without cause it's just going to make life even more uncomfortable for them. They need you to be a rock for them, which is easier said than done, obviously. But I think that is what kids need from their parents at a time like this.

It's good work is giving you some relief. I took all last week off and this week I can't stay on task. I find myself sitting here in a catatonic state, just drifting off into space wondering how the hell my marriage got this bad for her...what did I do that was so bad to drive her to this point...??? Of course the eality is that it is what I DIDN"T do that drove her to this point, I know that. The point is that I'm not getting squat done. What do you do for a living? What part of the country are you in? Just curious.

<small>[ September 26, 2003, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: RJP ]</small>

L4A - you may find the following about re-establixhing trust to be interesting: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As far as I can discern there is really only one approach to re-establishing trust, and a couple of well-established ways to get there. In both cases, the bottom line is: believe their actions, not their words, at least until you have seen a consistent pattern of their words and actions being aligned for a period of many months. That necessarily means you have to be more involved in their lives so that you have the ability to verify that their actions and words are cohesive.

The path to get there, according to Willard Harley, is to have no secrets from each other, and to use the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) in all your decisions. Once you see your spouse consistently use the POJA, and the two of you have learned to understand each other and communicate with each other well enough to implement it, you will trust them when they are out of sight, too. Perhaps ironically, one thing that will convince you of your spouse's honesty is if they tell you things they know will hurt, instead of lying to "protect" you. So this process will likely not be painless, especially since, if you are like most couples, it will require learning a new way to communicate. Change is hard.

A second path, promoted by Carder in “Torn Asunder” (and the younger Harleys, too, I think), is for the WS to really dig in to the "WHY?" of the affair, and in gaining that self-understanding, communicate to you both why it happened, and how she will change their behavior in ways that you can verify and that will prevent her from having another.

Of course, these two paths are not mutually exclusive. I view them as complementary, and think “Surviving an Affair”, by Harley is extremely helpful in figuring out important parts of the why, at least as far as the answer involves unmet Emotional Needs, and it almost always does, especially for a woman who has an affair.

The fallacy is the belief that unmet EN’s “cause” affairs. If that was the case, I would have had the affair, not my wife, because my EN’s were less well met in our marriage than hers.

Unmet EN's do not cause affairs, they cause lousy marriages. If you read Harley thoroughly and carefully, he does not say unmet EN's cause affairs, either, though it is a so common a misconception among his readers that I would say he should do some re-writing of his material. Reading SAA, it can be easy to conclude that unmet needs are the reason for affairs. Not so. Affairs are entirely the responsibility of those involved, and the reasons vary.

Our MC worked w/ Bill Harley for 8 years, and one of his biggest dis-agreements w/ Bill was on this very issue, because according to him, in about 40% of MEN'S affairs unmet EN's had very little to do with it. Yes, there were usually unmet EN's in their marriages, because no marriage is perfect. But, having the wife find out about and meet his most important EN's did not stop the affairs from re-kindling or stop the husband from having another. Harley is aware of this, which is why his plan for recovery is a lot more complicated than: 1.) Take the EN questionnaire. 2.) Meet your spouse’s EN's. Our MC said that in his opinion, for that 40%, if the wife had been meeting the husband's top 5 EN's PERFECTLY, the husband still would have had the affair. If you want to learn more, read "The State of Affairs", by Todd Mulliken particularly the chapter on "The Double Life Man". Though the percentage of women who have this type of affair is small, it is not zero, so this could apply to your wife, too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hello guy Say I am in same boat see EXACTLY where you are my situation has gone on from 2 weeks ago please take these people advice they are very smart Intelligent is a slang word for them.thanks everybody to say where I'm at right now.we are back together trying everything she saids she wants us to work out.she also saids I'm to blame for all of it how I treated her the whole bit.I'm just trying to survive I can't pu it out of my mine It haunts me min by min sec by sec my body has eased alittle but my heart is still broke I can't think clearly this ordeal has really crippled me my wife is very intelligent I mean to highest degree I really think she is narcissist I've been ready alot everyone in my faily father,Mom sis tell me to leave her she's not going to chage and I can see it too I mean actions speak louder than words but I'm in love with her again and want to trust her again. she toys with my emotions like they are thoughts I should'nt have she cheated on me 3 weeks after we were married and for the last three years we have never had trust from down deep I just cant let her build it up I want to thats the most valuable thing to me besides know she does love me (only) completly I'm a jealous man I know I have to learn not to be,I've got to learn how to put it out of my head we are working on it but she don'nt seem to bother her like it would me and I know thats why I believe she is N we jumped into a marriage 1 1/2 after the day I was about to ask for a D she came down stairs to ask me to go to the drug store to get a pregnacy test well I did after she took the test she was Positve so I made a big change everything turned around.but know we had got back to reality we had a little girl she is 20monts now my wife has neglected her from day one its a mess I do have so blame but she did screw me up from day one i dont know what to really do I just on a prayer and faith Dude listen Its nice to know people feel like you do i believe this is one place to find peace.thanks a gain for listening

You have gotten a lot of good advice. I just wanted to mention something about setting aside time re asking affair ?'s...

My H works evenings so it is/was EXTREMELY HARD to set aside time. I would leave questions on paper and ask him to answer w/comments, etc. I also kept a journal of my feelings and let him know about it so he could read if he wanted. I vented on paper and not to his face so he knew exactly the pain I was going through but didn't have it thrown in his face all the time (which was kinda frustrating cuz I really wanted to say it to his face sometimes, you know?).

Find a good MC fast and/or do the phone conference w/Harleys or Cerri. It helps a LOT!

Almost all WS's blame the BS -- it is the only way they can rationalize it all to themselves. I am pretty sure your W feels incredibly guilty and will say these things to make herself feel somewhat justified even though there is no justifying an A. Once you are in counseling and can discuss past behaviors and future communication, etc., it will all start coming out and W will probably realize that M wasn't all as bad as she though and if she had put as much time into an EA w/you as she had w/OM, it probably wouldn't have ever turned into a PA.

ok - is asking question about the affair destructive behavior on my part? Tonight I asked my wife if the OM had ever been in our house. I had suspicions because of business travel I had taken and time when she had asked me to take the kids to my parents because she needed "some time alone, a break or rest." Of course the answer was yes. I don't feel a whole lot worse than I did from the suspicion, but the idea of them having sex in our bed is very upsetting. I guess the reason I wanted to know was I suspected it and if it had happened - knowing that was a part of her mind that she was keeping from me. I asked her if the house could now be our home - she said the fact that he had been here with her was not a "ghost" (my words) in the house to her. Back to my question - should I ask these questions as they come to me? Or just assume that in an affair crap like that happens? It kind of like a pinball is knocking around in my brain for the last few days - thoughts, emotions and questions occur to me at random and change by the minute. I have been questioning if it is a physical thing - somehow I am not attractive to her (which plays into a long time body image problem I have) (damn the media representations)I am working on about 10 hour of total sleep over the last 3 days - getting some sleeping pills is starting to sound good - in the back of my mind is this need to be checking on her. Today she went out of town for the day on business - I made her call from where she was working and caller id showed that she was in a different area code from where the OM is. I called her a number of times during that day then. Tonight she told me what a distraction that was from her being able to get work done - my response was its only been 3 days since this has all been revealed - (and actually more like 2 if you count all she told me Wednesday morning when I confronted her on the phone was that she needed to come home - we didn't get to talk about it until 9:45 that night) It sounded so much like a "its over, you should get over it" statement by her to say my calls were a distraction - and that of course makes me question how sincere she is. I don't want to lapse into a "business as usual" mode because that is probably what got us in the mess to begin with - on the other hand so far - with the exception of her sending an e-mail to terminate the affair - I am the only one who has initiated things to make us analyze our situation. She willingly participates in discussions - but hasn't been proactive beyond that. Maybe it the short amount of time since it all broke - but I have spent hours trying to find information to help. Is that typical?

Recovering from this trauma will be your number one focus for some time, if you are like the rest of us here! A bit of advice: write down your questions as they occur to you through the day. This helps to free your mind, with the assurance that the question can be answered later. Yes, it is normal to check up on the ws. She will just have to learn that this is a consequence of her actions that she will have to be content with until you feel safe again.

I have been reading your posts and feel very sorry for you but you touched on something that is so very sad. When your wife takes her lover to your home and has sex in your bed the message is pretty clear that she was showing total distain for you and your marriage. The home and your bedroom should be the one place that should of all places should be off limits. The fact that she said it does now provide any ghosts for her is another shot toward you. How do you think your wife would react if you told her you had sex with your lover in your house and in the bed you share but it will not bother you at all in the future.
I guarantee you that your wife would either demand to move or at least get a new bed.

The fact that she continued to have sex with him in your bed in your home when you took the children away for a day sends a clear message to me that you need to talk to an attorney to understand all of your options. What a message she sends and what a roll model for your children.
The lack of remorse of your wife is astounding. She sounds like a cakewoman and has only temporarily stopped because she was caught. A wife that has no problem having sex with her lover in her home and in her bed while she tricks her husband to play with the children for a day says a great deal about her broken moral compass and the feeling that she could care less how much disrespect and humiliation you have to suffer. I think you should ask yourself seriously why you would want to be with someone who showed you such disdain for you and has showed so little remorse for her actions. She should be tested for STD's as soon as possible. I wish you luck but remember you also have choices and you do not have to settle for this.

L4AA-

Wait a minute here, I've said this before and will say it again and again. YOU NEED TO GET PROFFESIONAL HELP!!! Stop listening to all of us here on this board. We have all been touched by the same demon of infedelity and are all in various stages of dealing with it. Some are heart broken, some are bitter, and most are a little of both. Do not base a course of action on anything said here...except maybe from Cerri, post to her to get her attention. You need to set up an appointment with the Harley's or with Cerri and get them involved. All we can do here is to tell you what we think and what we are doing, but most of us have the same bias...we are also all victims of it.

For now, just take care of yourself. Get some sleep, get some anti-d's. Anti-depressants are important. They will NOT numb you or make you think everything is ok. They will help you to level off the emotional rollercoaster and help you to think with a level head. It seems that everything you've done thus far has been an emotional response. Anti-d's will help you to think rationally. As I said before, I'm not big on pills for much of anything, but I'm not big on depression, anxiety, or acting out of desperation either! Seriously, think it over. They will also let you eat, which I suspect you probably haven't done much of lately...at least if you are anything like me.

Get the books: Surviving An Affair, Love Busters, & His Needs-Her Needs, they are about $20 bucks a piecce at Barnes & Noble (or you can buy them of this site) but it ws the best $60 I could spend. Read them in that order, then read all you can on this site about infedelity. You'll find that you wife is not acting any differently than any other WS does.

As far as the whole "sex in your bed" thhing goes...ewww. I'd probably have burned that damn bed by now...and put the house on the market. Yuk. That would be tough to handle, I feel for you. i think you are right in that asking the answers to all you questions is a little self distructive for you. Ask yourself: what good will it do me to know this? Can I change it at all? I think you'll agree that 1)it only serves to hurt you more and 2)there is nothing you cn do to change it now. Look at the situation with the bed. Now you know, but you are worse off for knowing. Now you probably don't ever want to step foot in your room again much less ever make love to your wife there, in that bed. What good did it serve you? Take care of yourself for now, there will be plenty of time for questions later...this is going to take YEARS to repair. Know that.

Anyway, it sounds to me that your wife is exactly like mine. She felt sorry and sympathetic for a day or so, then it turned to this whole thing not being that big of a deal, finally my wife thinks the stuff recomended for us to recover is going "way overboard" and she thinks she should still be able to be friends with the OM and his buddies. Last night for example, she went out to have a smoke with the nieghbor lady, she says: "I'm gong to have a smoke and a beer with _____, I'll be home in a bit" She was gone until 2:30 and when I asked where she was, she told me she went to OM's house and hung out in his garage with him and his buddies. She knew that it would hurt me, she did it anyway. She even agreed with Jenn that she would have no contact with OM, but did it anyway. Get used to that happening, this is a bumpy road ahead and there will probably be relapses. You need professional help to get thru this. Don't [censored] it up, get the help.

Take care.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RJP:
<strong>Wait a minute here, I've said this before and will say it again and again. YOU NEED TO GET PROFFESIONAL HELP!!! Stop listening to all of us here on this board.</strong>

Well done, RJP.

L4, you are in the marital equivalent of critical condition, and you are stopping people on the street asking for medical advice.

Either hook up with cerri for some counseling -- she should be along here any moment -- or go right to the Harleys.

I think there is sort of a window of opportunity after D-day to get on the right path to recovery. It may be only days in some cases. If it is wasted, trust is never re-established, affairs re-ignite, and most importantly, the marital issues (LBs and ENs) that left the marriage vulnerable go unrepaired.

I ain't just talking, I've had the same signature line for two years, friend.

L4,

Cerri rarely comes by on weekends, but RJP is right.....some help from a pro is a good idea right now. Remember....it's better to do nothing, than to do the wrong thing right now...so call and make an appt and try and be patient until you can.

It may very well take an experienced coach to reach your wife with the realities of ending an affair and following up a recovery plan. Here are a few of things a good coach can help your wife to see:

You were both responsible for the vulnerabilty of your marriage....but ONLY she is responsible for the affair. There were many many other choices....good ones....she could have made to deal with the problems she had with you. Instead she chose the most damaging, hurtful and destructive thing for a marriage.

Three days is far too short of a time to expect you to "just get over it". If she wants you to get over it....she will have to use the things outlined by Dr. Harley to help the two of you reach recovery. But in the meantime until you can get help.....stop asking questions at random. Take a few days to regroup.

This quote is taken from one Dr. Harley's letters.....but it applies to you:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But, as you have already discovered, the first few weeks of separation from a lover are very painful. You are addicted to your lover, and separation from the object of your addiction has triggered symptoms of withdrawal -- a compulsive craving for him with intense feelings of anxiety and depression. However, if you completely avoid seeing or communicating with your lover, those feelings of anxiety and depression will gradually fade. For most people they fade in a few weeks. But even if it takes longer to get through withdrawal, it is absolutely essential to do it if you want to restore your love for your husband.

Remember the Love Bank? If you are to be in love with your husband, he must deposit enough love units into his account in your Love Bank so that it will trigger the feeling of love in you. But since you are depressed while you are getting through withdrawal, it will be almost impossible for him to deposit very many love units. If he is to deposit love units into your Love Bank, you must first get over being depressed so you can associate him with your good feelings.

Once you are through withdrawal, however, you are ready for marital reconciliation because then, and only then, does your husband have a chance to deposit love units. Your mood will improve dramatically, and the effort your husband makes to meet your needs will reap impressive dividends. Before long, you will be in love with him again.

But if you give into your craving before withdrawal has ended, and contact your lover, the period of withdrawal will begin all over again. Those feelings of anxiety and depression will come back with a vengeance. All of your efforts to reconcile with your husband will be wasted, and it will test the limits of your husband's patience. So you must take extraordinary precautions to avoid ever seeing or communicating with him again.

Extraordinary Precautions to Avoid A Former Lover
To help you totally separate from your lover, and avoid the temptation to see him when you crave him the most, I suggest the following extraordinary precautions:

1. Honesty

The first extraordinary precaution to avoid your lover is to tell your husband all about your affair, and the decision you have made to restore your love for him. Then promise to keep telling him the truth about every aspect of your life, so you never again have a secret second life where you are tempted to hurt him behind his back.

Honesty and openness is one of the best ways to prevent yourself from being inconsiderate of your husband's feelings. It was your friend's threat to reveal all to your husband that motivated you to separate from your lover. Your friend wanted to shed to light of day on the things you were doing in secret to protect your husband. But you should do it yourself. Go right to your husband with the facts. If you had been honest about your budding relationship with your lover from the beginning, it would never have developed into an affair.

You may be afraid that once your husband knows the facts about your ongoing affair, he will leave you. Quite frankly, I think he has the right to make that decision. If, faced with the facts he decides to divorce you, you lose your option to restore your relationship with your him. But you simply cannot build a relationship on lies and deception. Dishonesty will never get you to your goal of loving your husband again. So it's better to get all of the cards out on the table now and build your marriage the right way, even if there is a chance that your husband will throw in the towel before you have a chance to reconcile.

Another reason you may be reluctant to tell your husband the truth is that he might have a violent reaction to what you have done. If you are afraid of his reaction, separate from him first, and then tell him the truth in a public place or with friends who can protect you. If your husband cannot control his temper once he knows the facts, then I see no hope of saving your marriage. Honesty is so important in marriage that if the threat of violence prevents honesty, I don't believe you will ever have a good marriage.

Besides, dishonesty does not prevent violence in marriage, it encourages it. If your honesty brings out violence in your husband, your dishonesty would enrage him even more, once he discovers that you've lied to him.

If you think your husband may divorce you or become violent when you are honest with him, I encourage you to be honest anyway, before you begin your plan for reconciliation. If he cannot accept the truth, no plan of reconciliation will work.

2. Account for Your Time.

Once you have established a willingness to be completely honest with your husband, then continue to be honest with him about all of your activities. Make sure he knows about everything you do throughout the day. Give him a complete schedule of your activities, and let him know which of those activities make you most tempted to contact your former lover. Try to avoid people and places that increase your craving to be with him.

3. Spend As Much of Your Time with Your Husband as Possible.

During withdrawal, there is not much your husband can do to deposit love units into your Love Bank. But it still makes sense for you to be together as much as possible. That's because the more you are with him, the less you will be tempted to contact your lover. Try to have lunch together, talk on the telephone several times a day, and be sure to spend evenings and weekends together.

In many cases, I have suggested that a husband and wife go on a three-week vacation together during the first few weeks of withdrawal, just to help the wayward spouse avoid contacting the former lover. I tell these couples not to expect too many love units to be deposited, but by getting away from the reminders of the lover, they find that such a vacation greatly reduces the time it takes for withdrawal. Besides, the distractions of a vacation can often compensate for the depression that accompanies withdrawal, and makes the experience much less painful.

Sometimes a wayward spouse feels like getting away from everyone during withdrawal, and going on the vacation alone. But it doesn't work. It's too tempting to call the lover, and in many cases the lover ends up joining the wayward spouse.

If you go with your husband on this vacation, you will not feel like being very romantic with him. He should expect very little from you, because you will be recovering from your addiction to your lover. It's only after the craving for your lover subsides, and your depression lifts that you will be able to give your husband the opportunity to deposit all the love units it takes for you to be in love with him again.

Of course, your husband must be very careful to avoid making matters worse by saying and doing anything that would upset you. Granted, he may not be very happy about your affair, but if he wants you to love him again, he must avoid withdrawing love units at all costs. He must be with you as much as possible, yet avoid anger, disrespect and demands, which are all Love Busters. He must also be careful to take your feelings into account whenever you make decisions.

If you slip, and contact your lover in spite of the extraordinary precautions you take, tell you husband about it immediately. Then, improve your extraordinary precautions to include the condition that caused the slip. Keep improving them until it becomes virtually impossible for you to contact your lover. A slip will set you back emotionally, but it does not mean that your recovery plan has been ruined. It simply needs an upgrade.

In many cases, I have encouraged couples to relocate to a different part of the country to avoid contact with a lover. It's a good example of an extraordinary precaution upgrade, when it became apparent that contact with a lover could not be avoided when living in the same city. It goes without saying that when lovers are fellow employees, a job change is absolutely essential to marital recovery. How is total separation from a former lover possible when you work together?

You asked if you should avoid using the internet, since it reminds you of your lover, and tempts you to contact him. I'm sure you can anticipate my answer. I suggest that you stay away from the internet until you are through withdrawal, and you have restored your love to your husband again. Then, I think it would be safe for you to return to it again.

Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery

After you are through withdrawal from the addiction to your lover, your depression will have lifted and you will no longer feel a craving to talk to your lover. At that time you will be ready to put into place rules that will guide you and your husband toward a deep love for each other. After you have followed the rules for a while (six months to two years), you and your husband will be soul-mates.

These are the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery that you and your husband should follow to help you restore your love for eachother:

1. The Rule of Protection: Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.

If you and your husband want to be in love with each other, you must build your Love Bank accounts. But before you build them, you must be sure there are no leaks in the Love Bank. It's pointless to deposit love units into a sieve, where every deposit is promptly withdrawn by a Love Buster. So you must make a special effort to plug up those leaks by committing yourselves to avoid being the cause of each other's unhappiness.

The most obvious things spouses do to ruin their love for each other is what I call Love Busters. They are angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, annoying behavior, selfish demands and dishonesty. I describe these destructive habits in my basic concepts, but if you need special help learning how to avoid them, I suggest you read, Love Busters: Overcoming Habits that Destroy Romantic Love. This book will help you identify the Love Busters that keep emptying your Love Bank accounts, and show you how to stop inflicting them on each other.

Most of the Q&A columns I've posted on the Marriage Builders? web site focuses attention on the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). This policy protects both you and your husband from each other thoughtless decisions. Your affair was a blatant example of thoughtlessness on your part because you knew it would hurt your husband, but you went ahead and did it anyway. The Policy of Joint Agreement is a very important guide to helping you keep the Rule of Protection. That's because it helps you realize that anything you do that hurts your husband is off limits to you, regardless of how wonderful it makes you feel.

If you had followed the Policy of Joint Agreement, you would never have had an affair. But the Policy will also help you avoid hurting each other in a host of other ways, too. My book, Fall in Love, Stay in Love, can help you learn how to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, and use it to negotiate agreements that are fair for both of you. Once you learn to negotiate with each other fairly, you will have learned how to follow the Rule of Protection.

2. The Rule of Care: Meet your spouse's most important emotional needs.

The way to deposit the most love units is to meet a person's most important emotional needs. Your lover did that when he wrote you all those e-mail letters because conversation was your most important emotional need. After one month of filling your Love Bank with thousands of love units that were e-mailed to you, you found him irresistible -- you were in love with him.

Conversation is not your only important emotional need. Affection, recreational companionship, admiration and sexual fulfillment may be some of the other important emotional needs that your lover met. Unless your husband eventually meets your must important needs as well as your lover met them, you will be frustrated and at risk for another affair.

Sometimes a spouse must learn to meet a need that he or she has never been very effective in meeting. Many of the spouses I've counseled have had to learn to be affectionate for the first time in their lives. They also have had to learn to be stimulating conversationalists and skilled lovers. They have had to learn to provide greater financial support, become more effective in their parenting skills and learn to become admiring instead of being critical. New habits that lead to need fulfillment can be learned by anyone. All it takes is a plan and willingness to follow it until expert level is achieved.

But your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs. An important reason that you had an affair was that your husband's work schedule prevented him from giving you the attention you craved from him. When you and your husband agree to follow this second Rule to Recovery, his work schedule will no longer stand between you, because meeting your needs will become your husband's highest priority. All the needs that your lover was meeting for you will be met by your husband in the future.

If you need help identifying and learning how to meet each other's important emotional needs, I suggest you read, His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-proof Marriage. It describes the ten most important emotional needs for men and women, and how to become an expert at meeting those needs. When your husband has learned to meet your needs, he will be depositing so many love units that his account in your Love Bank will be overflowing. By then, you will be thoroughly convinced that leaving your lover to rebuild your marriage was the right decision to make.

3: The Rule of Time: Give your spouse your undivided attention.

You indicated in your letter that it was the lack of your spouse's attention that drove you into the arms of your lover. But it may have been more a lack of time than a lack of attention. As I already mentioned, your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs, but unless he sets aside enough time to do it, all of his skill does you no good at all. It's the man who gives you time for undivided attention who will win your heart.

I suggest that you and your husband plan to spend at least 15 hours each week together, giving each other your undivided attention. Use that time to meet each other's emotional needs for affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. I have found that if that amount of time is taken to meet emotional needs, you can spend the rest of your 100 waking hours each week doing just about anything you please, without any risk to your love for each other. But if you do not set aside that time, your good intentions will not buy you a single love unit.

Since most everything we do must be scheduled or we don't do it, I suggest you take about a half an hour each week (say, Sunday afternoon from 3:30 to 4:00) to schedule your time together for the next week. Get out your schedules and write each other into your appointment books. Once scheduled, don't let anything interfere with your time together.

I suggest spending the same days and times together every week because it's easier to remember than a new time each week. Besides, you can be better emotionally prepared to be with each other if you always know that Tuesday evening you will be together from 7 to 10.

I also suggest that you spend time together when you have plenty of energy. Don't give each other the leftovers, give each other the best of yourselves. That's why I generally rule out time together after 11:00 pm. For one thing, you need your sleep for the challenges of the next day, and for another, there are not too many people who are at their best that late at night.

Finally, I suggest that you spread your time out every week, giving each other at least one hour of undivided attention every day. I am generally opposed to cramming all of your time together into a marathon weekend of 15 hours, because undivided attention is required, and 15 hours of anything makes undivided attention almost impossible.

4. The Rule of Honesty: Be completely honest with your spouse.

We have already discussed honesty as an extraordinary precaution to prevent you from contacting your lover, so I won't say much more about it. But what you begin as an extraordinary precaution, must become the standard way you and your husband communicate with each other -- with openness and honesty.

You have not been honest with your husband. If you had been honest, you could never have had an affair. Your honesty is your husband's greatest protection because it lets him know what you are up to. It also helps you both make adjustments to each other. Instead of having an affair, you should have told him how unhappy you were with his negligence of you, and how you were falling in love with another man who would give you his time and attention. If you had ended the budding relationship then, and focused on getting more of your husband's undivided attention, you would not have put both of you through such an ordeal.

The Basic Concepts section of this web site contains a section entitled, "the Policy of Radical Honesty." It outlines precisely what the rule of honesty is. It's complete honesty. I want you to read it over very carefully, because it explains precisely how honest you and your husband are to be with each other.

But be careful not to let Love Busters ruin the purity and value of honesty. Keep anger, disrespect and demands out of your honest expression of facts and feelings. If you can do that, you will find your honesty will not only help you find solutions to your problems, but it will also draw you closer together, and help you become the soul-mates that you can be.

If you are willing to permanently end your relationship with your lover (never see or communicate with him again), get through withdrawal, and then you and your husband follow the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery, I guarantee you that you will have a great marriage. And I also guarantee you that neither of you will ever suffer through an affair again.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Star*fish, I'm SO glad you posted that! I was about to do the exact same thing.

L4AA, right now you need a tourniquet to keep from bleeding to death, not the major surgery that'll save your leg later.

So: Step 1, as everyone's been saying, please please please get professional help.

Step 2, EAT SOMETHING. I've been where you are, and I know just how incredibly hard it is. If you can't eat, try drinking milk and MetRX protein shakes.

Step 3, GET EXERCISE. I've been where you are, and your mind is NOT working right now. Distract and exhaust it.

Step 3, Call Cerri or the Harleys! (See step 4.)

Step 4, Get OUT OF TOWN! Take the kids to a set of parents, and you and your wife get in the car and drive for three weeks. Yes, THREE WEEKS. Don't call anyone but your parents and either Cerri or the Harleys. I don't care what's going on in the rest of your lives. Please, take this step and get your wife away from the OM!

Simple, one-foot-in-front-of-the-other steps right now. That's all you can do. Try not to panic, and try not to lose your mind. Take at least one of these steps today, another tomorrow, etc.

And no, you don't have to be perfect! This journey you've just started is a LONG, LONG one. Just put one foot in front of the other and stand up again when you fall. You WILL be okay again.

<small>[ September 27, 2003, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Just J ]</small>

Oh and one thing neither of us mentioned Just J (great minds do think alike LOL!).....a visit to the doctor for some anti depressants will help level out your feelings (not change your personality) but help you cope and sleep better.

That letter was obviously written to a wife who ended and affair....it's the path a good coach will help your wife to take. You can't teach her...that would be a big LB...but someone like Steve, or jenn or cerri can. So lean on them.

((((((((((((((((((L4))))))))))))))))))))

Yes, it's very okay to ask any question you really want the answer to. Go to findarticles.com and read "Shattered Vows" and also the books Torn Asunder and NOT Just Friends. It will help you to see why you want the details.

If this was a physical affair, please get tested for stds right away, and insist that she does too.

I strongly recommend counseling. It's almost impossible to get thru this without it. good luck and keep posting

^ bumping for what's her name <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
HoFS

(What does the previous reply post mean on this? Makes no sense.) I am trying to move on in this process but a little lost - (duh just found the article on finding a good marriage counselor) - Still rough going - had a decent day yesterday - spent it together working on a household project - kind of fun actually. She seems committed to everything I have asked for - of course my distrust is still very high - but its not like she has protested against any of it. We talk about our relationship and the A everynight - and also whenever I want - but its not even been a week so I still feel like crap. Have this desire to have everything like I thought it was before (not like it actually was) I know that can't happen. I am so ready to take proactive steps to move on - she says she is too and seems to be taking them - but I can just tell that the tears and emotions she has are not always for me and that just keeps me crushed 24/7.

<small>[ September 29, 2003, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: looking4ananswer ]</small>

{{{{looking4}}}}

I am sorry to read about you being in this position. I'm not going to pretend I can eloquently espouse the MB principles as well as star or C but let me share a couple of things with you. I experienced what you are going through during April of 2001. There were two additional d-days for me after that time. I understand how you are feeling and what thoughts are running through your read. I went on the infidelity diet. Bad idea. Make sure you are eating right. Make sure you are getting enough sleep. Don't be afraid to go see a doctor if you are having problems with these things. I don't think ant-d's are such a bad thing for a BS.

Just a few days now, huh? You are just at the beginning my friend. I've read where a wayward spouse may go through withdrawl over two years. It is going to take time. But, the important thing I think is that you learn from the MB principles on this site. Remember, don't force your WW to do things she doesn't want to do. It kind of sounds like you are doing this somewhat now. Take it slow. Read over C's list of 'Feeling' words and be sure to communicate to your WW how you are feeling. I kept too many of my feelings repressed during my failed marriage. I ended up trying to be more of a controller (I'm the engineer type <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). That may work at the job but not in marriage.

When it came to counseling at first, I thought I knew best what to do. I encouraged appointments. I made appointments for us. It wasn't until much later that I saw my W not participating. When givien the opportunity on her own to do the homework or make future appointments, it didn't happen.

Believe or not friend, the most important thing right now to saving your marriage is YOU. Yes, you read this correctly. You have to learn how to understand your W. You have to learn what she needs. You have to learn how to communicate. Don't try to teach your W. Husbands do not make good teachers of wives. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Take it from experience.

Right now, expect only baby steps. Sure there may be setbacks but when isn't there any in life? Learn from them. Re-evaluate your strategy. Recognize what isn't working. Try something new.

Star gave good advice above. Check out C's stuff too. I wish you luck. Check back in here if you have questions. Don't be afraid to run ideas for meeting needs, avoiding LB's, spending 15+hrs/week with your W by the group here for critque. I also would highly recommend professional help as star suggested. Read the material here about finding a counselor. C also has some good stuff on her website on the difference between coaching and therapy.

This stuff isn't easy but it sounds like you have an excellent opportunity to build a healthy, happy marriage. Believe me, the alternative is not any easier. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hang in there buddy.

HoFS

<small>[ September 29, 2003, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: HofFenceSitter ]</small>

Up and down – yesterday was a pretty good day all in all. While there were highs and lows – not until later afternoon did any major emotional upheaval occurs – at that time – for the first time – I experienced major anger. Is this like going through the stages of grieving? Up until then anger was not something that had even made a minor appearance. When it did it was exclusively directed at the OM. Then that subsided and everything was ok – my wife came home from work – actually kissed me on the lips. We had a nice evening working on another project together with the kids (I know it is a little misdirection – but it helps) Later when we sat down to have a talk - things began to unravel a little. What caused that?

1.This may be the worst thing in the world – but my wife had to talk to the OM and may again for business reasons. She is responsible for an organization of 30 people and he is their attorney. The organization is in the middle of major activities that my wife is solely responsible for. He is stepping out of the role but transition can’t be instant. The transition is under way though. She did tell me they were going to have the discussion and what they talked about after.

2. I have insisted that she be tested for HIV. She agreed from the start. Yesterday she called to get a test kit from one of those by mail places – which I agreed to – it is not a viable option to go to a doctor where we live. She was being proactive in responding to my request – but I asked her which one she ordered (there is an express version that takes about half as long to get results) she said the standard one. That disappointed me, she said she did not see the express option.

4.I asked her to be proactive in finding a marriage counselor and she agreed – she has a doctor’s appointment next week and is going to ask her physician. I leaned on her a little bit about what we could do to move faster and that made her upset – she was being proactive in asking her doctor.

5.Last night after we went to bed we hugged and lay close to each other. I fell asleep and woke an hour or so later. Moved closer to her and admittedly was “clingy” She did not really protest for about 30 minutes but then said that she had to get some sleep so I needed to give her some space. It is true that she has some major tasks she is responsible for that are immediate and impact many people – we are trying to balance this 21st century lifestyle. Neither one of us has slept much lately – but I am running on empty too. We discussed it this morning – and she said that she needed to balance work and everything else in her life and that she wanted to work toward a solution but needed to fulfill her obligation at work to.

I guess I write this because my emotional view is that we have not done anything. We have agreed to work on our relationship, but I don’t feel like we have taken any steps that we need to take toward it. We definitely need professional help and I feel like we are just two amateurs pretending what we are doing now. The talks are good I guess from an honesty standpoint. I think all the reasons for no steps so far are reasonable in the abstract, but I can’t help feeling like nothing is happening.

Hey L4AA, how are ya?

I have some questions for you, not any that necesarrily ned to be answered, just for you to think about.

1) Why are you making her responsible for finding a counselor? Why not take on that resposibilty yourself? If she is feeling overwheled by her life right now, wouldn't it be meeting a need to help take some of the pressure off?

2) If she ordered an HIV kit, why are you disapointed at which one she ordered. She did as you requested. Maybe communication is something you guys need to work on, so that you are not expecting something other than relayed to her. The books His Needs / Her Needs and Love Busters can really help with the communication and conflict resolution. Altough, they are more geared to helping you two stay in love with each other. Poor communication is a major source of LB's. Look at how disappointed you are, and she probably had no idead that you expected something other than she provided.

3) This is just a thought, but can she relieve herself from the role of having to deal with this OM at work? If not, have her set a time table as to when it can be expected for him to be replaced. Then just insist on openness and honesty from her in regards to contact with him. Maybe you can acompany her on her trips for the time being. Ask her to account for all of her time, so as to assure you that nothing is going on that shouldn't be.

4) Why are you hashing this up every night with her? I know you have questions, but this going to take a LONG time to recover from and you will be able to ask later. Maybe tonight, pick up a bottle of her favorite wine, light some candle after the kids go to bed and have a nice, pleasant conversation with her. Not about the problems in the M or the A, but just about her and work, you and work, casual stuff, the kids (in a good light, no problems). Maybe if she lets you, give her a back rub. Helping her to relax will, I think, go a long way to regaining some intimacy (not sex, just emotional closeness). So take a night off from the stress of this situation and just enjoy each other.

5) I can understand your anger. Really I can. If you need to vent, come here. Don't get mad at her, just let her know how you feel and be honest. If you fight with her or apply pressure or guilt, it will only make the marriage a hazardous place for her emotionally. And if that happens, I don't think she will let you near her, emotionally speaking.

6) Why are you trying to find a couselor other than the ones recommended here? I looked for about a week and nobody either heard of these principles or they just didn't follow them. Talk to the Harley's or to Cerri. The rates are high, but these are the folks who pioneered these tactics and they are in the best place to help you learn and implement them. Besides, the rtes are not to much higher than any other counseling session, at least that is what I found. Take it apon yourself to set up an appointment. You can even get night time appointment, so that you are both able to commit to it. It is all done by phone, it works really well and is very easy to coordinate. I was a little skeptical (sp) of phone coaching, but it works very well. Just make sure your W is ok with the time you set up, it is a good way to try the policy of joint agreement!

Anyways, pep talk over, just wanted to see how you are doing. Sounds like you are doing a hell of alot better than I am at the moment. Take care and keep us posted.