The pain it so fierce...I can't think, breath, or even eat. All the signs were there, but she continually denied it. We were working on my having not met her emotional needs, even counseling, but she'd always try to get me to pull back to the old person and not be so good at meeting her needs. She'd say "don't be so mushy", "this isn't you", "the things you do know are pushing me further away"...etc. <P>It didn't make sense, so I finally said just that, and that there must me something or someone else. She began to cry and nodded her head positively. I went numb and cold..no heart beat. Then I pushed hard for her to tell me who, only so that we could get our relationship beyond that issue on back onto healing. That took almost two very gut wrenching hours on the bathroom floor. She didn't want to, but she told me.<P>It's been happening 3-4 weeks, nothing physical, and she's not in love with him. I do know him. His wife of 10 years (3 kids) recently left him and is actively dating. The void I left open is that of laughter and fun..he's has both. Three lunches and everyday work phone conversations. It's this that she now admits was getting her to sabotage my efforts....she cried, but admits she likes how she feels when he talks to her, and that she's now attracted to him.<P>Does her telling me do her any good? She swears she's going to stop it now, and for the first time in months she told me that she loves me. What do I do now?<P>SamH

Sounds like the contact with the other man is still continueing. Work calls, etc. As long as the contact continues, it will be tough to work on the marriage. Once contact stops it will likely take your wife a good deal of time get over him. It the mean time you need to try and meet wifes needs, and make her feel safe (no lovebusters). Also, work on you, read all you can on affairs (why, how to heal, etc.). Good luck and much patience.

I'm doing all I can with her emotional needs. Problem is that I'm not the least bit funny (never have been), she needs and wants that now. It hurts so bad, so very bad.<P>When she's with me everythings seems as though it will be fine. Even the night of discovery, she cried after going to bed, held me tight and told me for the first time in months that she loved me. She said it will be tough, but she's going to cut it off entirely with no contact. Then for the first time in nearly 1/2 year she initiated and made passionate love to me - even said that this was "love making". <P>The confusion and pain are a lethal combination.

Sam,<P>I'm not sure that being humorous is really an emotional need. Maybe what your wife is looking for is for you to not take life too serious. Right now, I am sure that is hard to do. One thing I would caution you on is to not get to caught up with the intense emotions that both of you will be feeling right know. Take things slow and don't try to understand all of the things that are said in the heat of the emotions. Be prepared for your wife's feeling to change like a yoyo. It can make a person crazy thinking about it all too much. Take things slow and get some help. Steve Harley is a good source of guidance and can be contacted via this site. Read as much as you can on affairs, Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley can be ordered from this site. <P>Good luck to both you and your wife.

Sam,<P>My ew told me that too. Saying I am too rigid. I am not. I have a good sense of humor. It just hard sometimes when life and family get in the way. Its always loads of laughs when you first meet someone.<P>As for the lovemaking. she may be passionate because all her needs are being meet by both you and om. You will need to monitor that she is not having contact with om, but no lovebusters.<P>Hang in there, you are in good shape.<P>God Bless<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger<BR>

Hello Sam,<P>I know that burning feeling. I have had and am still having it myself. My wife finally admitted having an affair. Caught her March 99. She said, "Give me a little time to finish things, if you don't tell him, I'll end it". She won't do counseling but says she doesn't want to lose me. That was 9 months ago. She is still with him today and plans to spend part of Christmas day with him. We have a six year old daughter. She keeps telling me "I love you, but the way you respond to this situation is pushing me away!" Sound familiar? If I had to do over again, I would have written her the good bye letter and filed for separation as a serious warning of things to come. As of now, all I've done is postpone what I should have done 9 months ago when she refused to immediately end it. Since then she has come up with every excuse in the world not to end it. "His dad is deathly ill" He's losing his job! It's Memorial Day. It's Thanksgiving! I can't do it at Christmas, that would be mean. etc etc etc.<P>Good luck Sam...I recommend the hard line. I chose the soft line and I am eating it in the shorts.

Sam,<P>I wish I had that malic answer for you. I know that pain all too well!!! I was in the fetal position for two hours. I acted out in a lot of feelings. Do not do this. Everything you do based on emotions will be wrong.<P>Be grateful she even shows you affection. Mine hasn't made love to me in three months. It would be cheating on OB.<P>The following are some links you and wife should read.<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A><BR>[url=http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/<BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_give.html" TARGET=_blank>Giver and Taker</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8100_article.html" TARGET=_blank>Articles</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html" TARGET=_blank>Infidelity Q&A</A><P>Tese contain the basics for recovery. I also suggest Steve Harley for counceling, he's the expert on adultry.<P>Hang in there the pain will become more managable then it will lessen over time.<P>If W is serious about ending EA you should write OM a letter that you ok. DOnot leave it to her to end it on her own. Be apart of that.<P>Keep posting.<P>Bill<BR><P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

God do I want to trust her. Yet, I know that it is hard for her. I will insist that it be a letter, and that it is mailed with the address verified by me. She will surely resist this, and I fear that my insistance could end our relationship -- <P>Is there any other way ... I have no way of verifying that she'll actually do it -- except that I told her to have him call me. But couldn't they just tell me that it's over, and then keep going?<P>How on Earth can I really stop this?

Ok Sam, here is where it gets real hard.<P>You have got to ask yourself the tough questions.<P>Do I want to stay married to this woman?<P>What am I willimg to do?<P>The reality of the situation is this she just might do all of those things you fear.<P>How do I stop it?<P>The first thing you do is no lovebusters.<BR>Check out the link I posted earlier.<P>Number two find out which basic emotional needs you weren't meeting, then meet them.<P>Number three check out the link <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A>.<P>Number four while your wife is still remorseful, talk to her about the solutions for fixing your marriage. Maybe that should be 1 or 2.<P>Are you religious? If so now is the time to get close to God. He will carry you through.<P><BR>I know it's a hard-[censored] pill to swollow but now is not the time to get angry with your wife.<P>She probably needs you to love her.<P>When you insist on the letter do it very lovingly.Total separation - The right way to end and affair<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to the betrayed spouse. (page 55 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Without total separation, marital recovery is almost impossible. (page 56 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>An affair is a very powerful addiction. (page 56 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>How to tell a lover that the relationship is over (letter on page 58-59)<BR>Extraordinary precautions must be taken to guarantee separation...<BR>[list=1] <BR><LI> Changing jobs and relocating (Situation dependent)<BR><LI> Blocking all communication (phone, e-mail, pager, etc.)<BR><LI> Accounting for time<BR><LI> Accounting for money<BR><LI> Spending leisure time together<P> You can survive this affair<BR>It's hard to believe that marital recovery is possible after an affair<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The path that leads to recovery is very narrow, and unless couples find that path, the tragedy of an affair can permanently cripple a marriage and often lead to the further tragedy of divorce. (page 10 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If you don't have a copy of Surviving An Affair, I suggest getting one to morrow.<P><BR>Again I suggest you and your wife read all of the links here to understand the how's, why's, and what to do's.<P>I know it hurt so bad you don't think it will ever go away. I been there it sucks.<P>Infidelity is the most <B>destructive</B> force I've ever encountered.<P>Don't let it destroy your marriage.<P>You guys can do it.<P>I know I can.<P>Believe that I believe.<P><BR>Bill<P>"commit to the Lord what ever you do, and your plans will succeed" Proverbs16:3<BR><P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Sam,<P>Read my story. My wife(betrayer) and I had the same problem. I stayed and allowed my wife to have her cake and eat it too. Still paying almost 5 years later. My advise is to separate until your sure its over. Tell your wife how hurt you are and that a lot of things will have to take place before rejoining. Some of those things are that she needs to be truly sorry, you are the most important person inher life etc. Just to tell you, to this date (after almost 5 years) my wife has never came to and wrapped her arms and around me and told me how important I am. Rather she pushes me away when I go to kiss her, or pushes me away when I hug her. If I try to kiss her deep, she really pulls away. I don't think U want that either. Remember don't rejoin unil you sure she is really sorry. My wife is still the king of the bunker hill..

Nofool,<P>I hate to step on your toes, however what you are suggesting Sam do is the worst thing he can do right now. I did exactly that and my W EMA got way worse than I thought it could get. She came to me humble and willing by doing what you suggest, kicked her while she was down. The OB was the only safe place she had to run to. I truly am sorry about your situation. I don't have any answers for you, except try to use Dr.H's princioles.<P>Sam,<P><B>PLAN-A...PLAN-A...PLAN-A</B><P>It sounds like your wife loves you.<P><B>MAKE NO DECISIONS IN YOUR PAIN I PROMISE THEY WILL BE THE WRONG CHOICE!!!! PLAN-A</B><P><BR>Bill<P>"commit to the Lord what ever you do, and your plans will succeed" Proverbs16:3<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Sam,<P>I feel for you buddy. You now know this other man, do you know where he works? Maybe you could visit and tell his boss that his subordinate needs to quit calling other people's wives on company time. Tell his boss that he's putting himself in danger to have a subordinate making a husband experience rage. Then leave quietly.<P>His boss will experience fear, and then frustration. "Can you quit turning this office into a #^%$@^%$@ soap opera! I don't have time for all of this crap! Get to work!"<P>Kind of takes the fun out of it for our swinging bachelor doesn't it?<P>

Thanks Bill,<BR>You were right about the varied emotions in her. She had a private counseling session last night (we see the same counselor). I tried and needed desparately to know that it went OK, but she said the rules were that we don't talk about it. I have a private session tonight. I'm scared to go.<P>The only thing I do believe is that she loves me, and that she's really confused (like being on drugs). I pray to God that she keeps her word, and goes through with No Contact. This is the only thing I want in the discussions with the counselor - and that we can verify it. With that, I think that we can heal.<P>I am so pissed that us men have to be whacked in the head like this many years into our marriages to realize how to love our wives, and to want to show them that love on their terms. I am so pissed, and so much in love with her. I'd do almost anything to make it up to her.<P>SamH

Sam,<P>I was wondering how you were doing.<P>I loved you comment "I am so pissed that us men have to be whacked in the head like this many years into our marriages to realize how to love our wives, and to want to show them that love on their terms. I am so pissed, and so much in love with her. I'd do almost anything to make it up to her."<P>For me that is sp true.<P>Take it easy, be very careful on how you approach her, commit zero LOVE BUSTERS.<P>Find out what her needs are and try to meet them.<P>Does she understand about withdrwal? Do you?<P>Educate yourself. You are in a very good position to keep your marriage. B very careful not to loose the momentum you have going with her willingness. I blew it in that area. Trust me you have nothing to loose by doing these things Dr.H suggests.<P>Has your W shown any interest in reading Dr.H's material.<P>I also suggest a book called Divorce Busting. It has some very good theories. Quiz your shrink about his plans, and if he's heard of any of these theories.<P>I'll be here for a little bit longer. Post back.<P>Hang in there,<P>Bill<P><P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

Bill,<P>I'll try to be brief. This past Saturday night, we found ourselves on the bathroom floor at 10pm. She had only moments prior kissed me wildly, then cried, went down to the floor, and said she was tired and didn't want to try anymore. I was devastated and in disbelief. No way could this be true based on what she said the issues were. Even if her need were not being met, we were real passionate only months before - something else was wrong. So, I simply said that it didn't make sense, no way could I have hurt her that badly, that there must be something or someone else. Then it happened, she lay on the floor crying and nodded "yes". <P>My heart left me, and the body went numb. Over the next two hours I did a daring thing. Even in pain, I went down on the floor with her and explained that she had to tell me "who it was" because it was critical for the next step. After two hour of gut wrenching "no, no, I can't, etc" she finally said the name. Far more pain for me, yet I have to believe progress for us as a couple.<P>She still swears no sex or even kissing or touching or even holding hands. His wife left him after 10 years only months ago, and he is in pain. They found that they could talk, and through talking discovered an attraction. brief phone calls daily at work and three lunches over 3-4 weeks. <P>This is what's been blocking her from reading any of the materials from Dr. H. Maybe she'll open up soon to that. That same night she told me that she loved me. But then last night she say the counselor alone, my turn tonight. She seemed rather cold when she came home. <P>Bill, I'm scared to interpret anything she says or doesn't say right now. After counseling last night, she said only that I should stop asking her about it for a while, and that "we're OK Sam" - I suppose I'm should believe that means we'll be alright, but somehow I'm scared to death of going to that counselor tonight. I feel like we're so close, and that I've only got to nipp these talks in the A** right now so that we can get back to healing us, and both wanting to do so.<P>Sorry Bill, that was a rather long response to your question about her having read anything on the site. I'll ask the counselor tonight, if I survive what the counselor tells me tonight. All I want to hear is hope, but fear my wife may be using the counselor to deliver a death blow.<P>Why do I feel this way when I sleep with her everynight. Why?<P>SamH

Sam,<P>Your fear is understandable. I do see a good sign. <P>"Sam,we'er ok"<P>You are going to have to trust as hard as it is.<P>Is your councelor a good one.<P>There is a number on a post, i forget who's post but it's about councelors that follow Dr.H's principles.<P>I called to day and found one near me. I'm going to use him when the time comes.<P>Do you have faith in God?<P>I do, He's ginin me all the strength I have now.<P>If you do read Proverbs16:3.<P>I'd ask your councelor if he has a specific recovery plan. If he's going to wing it, I'd concider finding one that is solution-oriented brief therapist. Get the book divorce busting. It talks about that kind of therapy.<P>Feel free to email me, if you need to talk further. I'll be home around 9:30 tonight.<BR>wconklin@carolina.rr.com<P>Try to relax don't let your fear kill you.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

SamH -- What ever else you do, do what you can to take care of yourself. I don't want to throw any cold water on this, but my W has held and kissed me passionately, we've had glorious sex, she's told me she loves me more times than I can count, she's said that sometimes we are perfect together and that she doesn't want a divorce. <B>But</B> she feels she needs to leave and have the freedom to be with OM!!! I don't know for sure, but I think that at least part, if not most, of her affection displays are driven by guilt.<P>I hope more than you know, that this isn't the case with your W. Just slow down, take some deep breaths and try to look objectively at your situation. Then, do everything you can to meet her emotional needs. Make yourself the person she wants to be with. Then, it's up to her and you've done all you can do......<P>Keep talking to us, I know as much as anyone that it's good for the soul.....<P>My thoughts and best hopes are with you...

Thanks so much Heartpain,<P>It's very much like a rollercoaster. She says one night that she loves me and that we're ok. Then the next she angry about past offenses and sounds as though there isn't much hope, and that there are things that I don't want to know, so I'd better quit asking. Some days she's a witch, and some she's very kind and warm.<P>I don't know who she is, but my wife's in there. I plan to do exactly what you advise, focus on the love and her needs. Equally important, I'VE DECIDED AS OF THIS MORNING TO STOP THINKING ABOUT, AND WORRYING ABOUT THE OM - that only leds to less focus on giving her love and meeting her needs, and could lead to painful and manipulative discussions even if they are not argumentative. I no longer want to be the one to conjure up these "confused" feelings. She's still in my home, my bed - and I'm going to make sure that from now on she feel very happy and comfortable there with me to the point that she won't want to be without it. And we're still in counseling. That's all I can do now, what ever else happens, happens.