Cerri....

Need some real help on this if you can. Posted on the Divorcing/divorced thread, but thought maybe it would be better placed here. Any advice on where to go would be good.

Thanks, skip (kathy)

I had been on the MB last week, talking about how I was regretful for my own part in the mistakes of our relationship and that my H wanted to divorce when he returned home. About a day and a half before he got home, he announces to me that I can really give up, because there is someone else and she is with him now. All this after four months of physical absence from his family for military reasons, and having his children thinking until less than 24 hours before he returns to town that he's coming home to be with us.

I now am very angry and hurt that the man who said he "loves" me brought this woman half way across the country so they can "be together" and "make a go of it" while we're still married. I know in affairs you make this sort of stuff OK in your own mind, because I've done it. But, I never EVER introduced another person to my kids and tried to make it OK. Especially not while we're still married.

My 7 year old is very vocal and emotional about the situation, and has told his dad that he should just "quit fighting, and love momma, and be married, and DEAL WITH IT. And tell Alex to go home because her car even says this isn't her home (has Virginia plates)." Pretty sad when a 7 year old has to tell an adult to quit being stupid and start thinking. My 10 year old son just cries, and asks me, "Does this mean Dad's never coming home, Mom?" I just answer that I don't know exactly what it means, but it sure doesn't look good. Then I tell them that perhaps they need to talk to Daddy about it. I feel cheated not only for myself, but for them, and I don't like how he's gone on with his life and I have to make it right for the kids and pick up their little broken hearts.

The worst of it is, if she wasn't in the picture, I probably could have gotten past all this. Now I feel stuck in going forward with a divorce I was fighting so hard to prevent, because I have been embarrassed by my husband's poor decision making skills in our very small town, which everyone knows everyone else's business. I hate him for the things he's doing to his family and his children, I hate her for knowing the situation and still moving here after barely knowing my husband. And the shame of it isn't that the two of us have had multiple PA's; it is the fact that the two of us have never considered what would happen to the boys and their feelings at exactly the same time. One of us was being selfish, and the other was thinking of the family. The real sucky deal is that we both admit we still love one another.

I don't know what to think right now, it is all so fresh and YUCKY for me. I want to hate this woman, but she is kind to the boys when they're around. Perhaps he isn't the one living in fantasy world; maybe I have just been unwilling or unable to accept that I am in denial and hanging on to the past, not looking at reality.

Anyways, thanks for letting me vent.

skip

Skip,

Give me a little background.
How long have you been married? First marriage? Any other infidelity? What were the issues in the marriage before the A? Why was he away from home?

I'll be in and out tomorrow, bump if I miss your reply, ok?

C

Cerri....

OK, this may take a while if I tell you everything. Condensed version: married almost 14 years (Nov. 17 if we make it), two sons -10 and 7. First PA was in 1991 - hubby (one night stand). Moved out of state to live closer to his family, lived out there for 2.5 years. I had a PA with a friend of his from high school that basically canceled out his (one night stand). Then, after the birth of our second son, he was working double shifts due to us being short of money, and lapsing into his "old ways" going out to the bar with his high school buddies. I started a 2-1/2 month long EA and PA with a guy I worked with (also married), which ended when I confessed BOTH affairs and we moved back to Nebraska to be by my family.

FLASH FORWARD: after living back here for a year, my husband was still unable to really "deal" with what moved us out here in the first place. We fought a lot, and did a lot of avoidance of the subject. Hubby would lapse into fits of rage, and there was one instance of physical abuse which we attended counseling to correct. I honestly believe that he would rather cut his hand off than ever hit me again.

Things went just fine for about 5 years, until again I was faced with a dilemma, and got myself wrapped up in the attention of another man. This was in about 3/2002....since then, my husband has confessed that he lost caring feelings about our marriage, but we still never asked each other to go to MC...just tried to do the "home remedies" to fix our relationship, which rapidly got worse, and by New Year's Eve, we found ourselves in a somewhat "alternative" lifestyle situation sexually (swinging with another couple, then being offered as the third in a Male-Female-Male situation three days later), which I didn't handle well at all. I have been in therapy ever since, with him still believing it was "no big deal". I filed in early February, we reconciled in late April, he left for 17 week training course for the Army May 14th and returned last Friday Sept. 19th, with a girlfriend that he has been carrying on an EA and PA with all summer. Since before he left we had not stopped the legal procedings I started last spring, he now wants to just continue it and start fresh with this new girl who moved thousands of miles from her own home because she had "faith in him and the chance they have to really make it". I feel cheated that I took care of so many things this summer - the kids, house problems, appliance breakdowns, basement remodel, while he was traveling with her and having the time of his life.

I am hurt at how this is going down for the boys, mostly because I know that he still hasn't really thought this through.

Any suggestions??

skip (Kathy)

(((BUMP)))

Well Kathy!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Ok.... so we have a mess to untangle and some work to do.

I see that you are a fairly new member, but that doesn't tell me much about what you know. Besides the forum boards, what else have you read at this site? Do you have any of the books?

I'd like you to spend as much of the weekend as you can reading the Infidelity information on the main site here.... There's quite a bit in the articles and in the Q/A

Make sure you read this link about PlA and PlB.....

Go to my site www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com and read the Infidelity Q/A's there, the March and April issues of the newsletter, and any other articles that look as if they might fit the bill.

Then on Monday let's talk about specific steps you can be taking. Until then NO relationship talks. No arguing. No judgments.... if you are together be calm, courteous and pleasant.

Ok? Cool.

C

OK, Cerri....that's cool, but....

1. Is moving forward on settling property in the pending D considered "relationship talk"? He has come to pick up what furniture I will let him have and his clothes and stuff to live in OUR OLD RENTAL HOUSE with the OW. She knows entire situation, but moved out here anyway, being solely reliant upon him.

2. Is talking about all the great stuff we "had" an he'll always cherish "relationship talk"? He keeps telling me how he still does love me, and I am his best friend, but that we have just "come too far and hurt each other too much". Also, as far as intimacy since he's been home - NO WAY! It's almost as if he feels he'd be cheating on HER with ME even though we are still not yet divorced. Crazy, or NO???

My main issues at this point are these:

* he has introduced this woman to my children. they know he is living with her and not me. they can only assume that this physical change of address also is also indicative that "Daddy doesn't love Momma anymore".

* he has introduced this woman in the community (at a Chamber of Commerce MIXER, no less...) as his new "girlfriend", and is doing as much as possible to make his situation with her NORMAL to everyone. so far it's working...except that everyone who knows me and knows how hard I've worked all summer thinks that it's pretty classless. I am now getting a lot of that "YOU GO GIRL - clean his clock in the D" stuff from people who have been supportive over the last four months, and there are moments that I lapse into numb acceptance of "it is what it is - I can't change it". Is this part normal?

Just wondering....I will read this weekend when I can (when boys are sleeping).

Thanks
Kath

OK, Cerri....that's cool, but....

1. Is moving forward on settling property in the pending D considered "relationship talk"? He has come to pick up what furniture I will let him have and his clothes and stuff to live in OUR OLD RENTAL HOUSE with the OW. She knows entire situation, but moved out here anyway, being solely reliant upon him.

2. Is talking about all the great stuff we "had" and he'll always cherish "relationship talk"? He keeps telling me how he still does love me, and I am his best friend, but that we have just "come too far and hurt each other too much". Also, as far as intimacy since he's been home - NO WAY! It's almost as if he feels he'd be cheating on HER with ME even though we are still not yet divorced. Crazy, or NO???

My main issues at this point are these:

* he has introduced this woman to my children. they know he is living with her and not me. they can only assume that this physical change of address also is also indicative that "Daddy doesn't love Momma anymore".

* he has introduced this woman in the community (at a Chamber of Commerce MIXER, no less...) as his new "girlfriend", and is doing as much as possible to make his situation with her NORMAL to everyone. so far it's working...except that everyone who knows me and knows how hard I've worked all summer thinks that it's pretty classless. I am now getting a lot of that "YOU GO GIRL - clean his clock in the D" stuff from people who have been supportive over the last four months, and there are moments that I lapse into numb acceptance of "it is what it is - I can't change it". Is this part normal?

Just wondering....I will read this weekend when I can (when boys are sleeping).

Thanks
Kath

1. Yes... at least for the weekend.
2. Ditto.

Just for the weekend put everything into freeze frame mode. Read as you get the time, and we'll start doing things next week.

If there is a legal proceeding in the works, fill me in on the details.

C,

Legals filed Feb. 1....the little "MFM" scenario that went bad on Jan. 4th - I started an EA with the other man, because he was there to "scoop me up and try to make things better" when H didn't have any interest in doing it. He just told me to "suck it up and move on". So, this OM became very, very attractive to me, and I thought I wanted him. My H went out to the bar the first night out of our house (day of filing) and picked up MY OM's estranged wife (they had filed Dec. 1) and took her home. This little act drove my OM and his soon to be ex back together. They are now happy and having a baby at Thanksgiving.

I spent some time alone (only about 2 weeks). Kids were not coping well with the whole two houses custody thing, and I reevaluated our relationship as messed up, but at the core good. We began trying to reconcile on Valentine's day, staying together at one house or the other pretty much every night, until he returned home in April. Legals were never stopped before he left in May (BTW, he filed a cross complaint against me in early March so that I couldn't arbitrarily stop the D unless we BOTH decided we wanted to). However, when he left I was under the impression that we would again be a family when he returned from his 17 week Army training in Virginia (we are in Nebraska).

I feel like I am being pressured in all areas on this deal, lawyers, him, family members. All want the same thing - quick and easy and painless. He is at the house now with our 10 yr. old getting the "hardware" to set up his wardrobe at the other house.

One question.....does he really LOVE this woman, or is she just doing something I'm not? Our sex life was very regular but rather mundane (in fact, I was rarely ever able to tell him "no" which I feel was one of our many, many issues". My therapist - knowing him - thinks he may be a sex addict because he "needs it to fall asleep and to feel relaxed". He refuses to explore this as a problem).

Just a little more background....I'll try to go slow on this deal. Meantime....do I let the boys go over there A LOT, or a little, or what?

Kathy

Cerri...

I did some reading over the weekend, but probably not nearly enough. Family in from out of town, blow up with H. You probably have heard this before....

Anyway, from the reading I have been doing, I would guess that my efforts have been more leaning toward Plan B. I keep my conversations mainly dealing with the kids, their well being, small talk - when they'll be back, stuff like that. Other than that, I refuse to have any conversations with him about R unless she's gone, and that means that she moves out of the state and back home to Virginia. Otherwise NO WAY. This makes the H exceptionally upset that he can't have it both ways, but he has had it that way for the entire summer and now it's my turn to have things the way I want them.

So....the little reading I've done has got me leaning toward Plan B; am I correct in thinking that it is that way, or am I kind of mixing the two by the kids being over there?

Let me know,
skip <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Cerri...

BUMP and...

What's the difference between Plan B and just plain being too tired to try anymore?

Kat

(Bump)

skippie,

Let me try and help....that way....cerri's sure to show up for having the audacity.....LOL...hehehehheheh.

Personally, I think you're moving WAY to fast to jump into Plan B. You can't do a Plan B...without first a Plan A. Did one of those yet? Okay....so he moved in with her....good...now he can see that she is not fantasy lady when the reality of living with her sets in.

I would like to see you do a Plan A. It wont' be easy when he's filing and living with some one else. In fact, it doesn't have much hope of success considering how deeply you have both hurt eachtother. But if you're even thinking about a Plan B....I think you shoud do it so you can leave him with the "sweetest taste" left in his mouth.

JMHO

.....help?

Cerri....

Have done some reading on the site. I think at the moment we are Plan A-ing, although I don't see a whole lot of positive coming from it. H vascillates back and forth from OW to me regularly, and I gotta think that she will most likely tire of this pretty quickly. However, H's moods change very, very quickly, and he goes from sweet and nice to very combative in a matter of minutes (at one point today he told me that I was the reason we are in this position because I filed in January, you "Dirty Rotten Whore". Sorry, but I don't buy that, and I don't like the name calling that goes along with it. Won't tolerate it from a guy who is living with someone else.

OW also felt the need to assume some "motherly" duties yesterday. My oldest son, 10, went to the wrong place after school (to their house instead of babysitter's like usual) because I told kids that they would be with Dad last night. Anyway, my son shows up over there, alone (not with his younger brother -wouldn't that have been a clue??), and asks to go to a friend's house. She says she will call Dad. When Dad was not reachable (he was out of town for work), she didn't think to give ME a call, or ask Andy to do so, just authorized Andy to go where he wanted. Meanwhile, babysitter calls me frantic, because she is one kid short and can't find him. So, I bring this up with H, and he immediately jumps to the OW's defense like a pit bull, and tells me that I am an "irresponsible parent" because our son didn't know where to go after school, and then says I am acting "psychotic".

Perhaps I should move my posting to the Divorced/Divorcing board, because I am thinking that this situation is WAY more than I can, or am willing to, handle. My kids shouldn't have to have this OW being presented as "normal". BTW, hubby wants to take kids on an out of town trip this weekend, and I have told him no if it's with HER. Wrong, or no?

skip

Cerri...been a while.

Did you read the latest I posted?

Think with all the emotional stress of hubby and his "swings" and name calling that the love bank is just about drained.

Kathy

Ok..... sorry been swamped....

First, don't go to the D/D board. It's too depressing there and the focus is more on how to survive D than on saving the marriage.

Second, we need to slow things down a little. I feel like my life is spinning out of control just reading your account!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I can't imagine how it must feel for you!

Third, you need to do some very basic PlA sorts of things. I'm not talking months here and I'm not talking about transforming yourself into St. Teresa, I'm talking about some very basic stuff. A week maybe ok?

Finally, tell all the divorce advocates to back the heck off. This is your life and your decision and they can either be supportive and give you what you need or they can go away. Pressure from friends and family is not helpful. And there is no such thing as quick easy and painless divorce. There is always pain.

Alright, what else? Does he love this woman? Sure he does. So? (my new favorite word of the week <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> LOL ) Romantic love is created when needs are met and deposits are made to the love bank in excess of withdrawals from love busters. WE ARE ALL hardwired to have an affair. Every one of us is not only capable but likely to do so unless precautions are taken.

Marriage is not about romantic love. Marriage is a commitment. Romantic love is the ingredient that makes keeping that commitment more likely to happen, that's why we focus on rebuilding the feelings of love. Because no couple who is deeply in love files for divorce. But lack of love is not a reason to bail. It simply means that there are things that need to be fixed and adjusted.

So he might be in love with her at the moment. It's a feeling. And like all feelings subject to change based on the prevailing conditions.

What's the difference between PlB and too tired to care? A coach who shoves you into PlB before you get to that point. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So then. Here's what I'd like to see you do. First and foremost. No more arguing. None. Nada. Refuse to interact at all rather than argue. Walk away, hang up, whatever it takes, but no arguments. If you feel that a conversation is getting out of hand simply state that you're not going to argue and get out of there.

What have you done to let him know that you are willing to look at what was wrong in the marriage? Have you talked about it at all?

Who have you not told about the affair?

If he brings up what you had in the past and how good it was, that's cool, talk about it all day if you like. But if he's telling you that things were always bad and you are bringing up the past to show him that he's wrong or forgotten then it should be off limits.

Generally, I would limit conversation to the present. What is happening right now, how you feel (see the list of feeling words) and what you like to have happen.

The only appropriate way to handle a mix up such as you had with your son is to say, I'm unhappy about this, what do we need to do differently next time?" Getting into a p****** match over who is wrong and who is right and who should or should not have done something might feel like the thing to do in the moment but it's not going to help your cause.

C