Tallboy,

I know you all mean well, but I'm really concerned about making such a huge decision about what to based on internet recommendations. I mean, I really need something that will work - I don't want to ruin the chances for something with her.

This is wise. This is the internet, and with the exception of cerri....we are not professionals. Have you been to cerri's website www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com ? It also has a wealth of information and she was trained and speaks regularly with Dr. W. Harley. The advice you get her on this site....even by us amateurs, is based on his concepts and follows his teachings. Those of us who have studied a long time are going to give you advice that is fairly close to what you are likely to get from the big dogs.

You mentioned that the lawyers don't think you should move home. Keep in mind that the lawyers make money from dissolving marriages, not saving them. With so many different voices, it's important that you find someone that you feel confidence and trust in and focus on that. I encourage you to either get an appointment with the Harleys or cerri so that this becomes less confusing.

But as for the going out late, etc., I'm very concerned that she is not being a proper parent. That is why I have the kids all week.

This is another reason why I would like to see you in your home. The children deserve the stability of being in their own environment, and if you are the more stable parent...then you should be there as well. Yes, I'm sure she won't be happy about it....but then you certainly aren't happy either. If she wants to move into mom and dads and carry on an illicit affair, it isn't going to be easy....and I think her parents will be able to see what she's doing. You can't force her out....but then I don't think she should force you out either. However, this is best discussed with a good coach.

<small>[ October 02, 2003, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: tallboy ]</small>

Sat down with her parents today. I told them that I love her with my whole heart, and would do anything to make this turn out right. Talked about her relationship, and showed some evidence. They still don't want to believe it.

They told me that I've been way too angry, and mean to people. When I think about it, it is because all of my emotional needs have been denied. She got hers met elsewhere, but noone met mine. It came out as anger toward her and the kids.

They almost broke my resolve completely. I've just about lost all hope.

Of course, her parents ran right to her and talked to her about our conversation. She called me this morning, she was mad that I talked to her parents, and that I had evidence of her relationship with the 24 year old. She wanted to know exactly what I had, I didn't completely tell her. She finally admitted that she had been lying to me, and that she had multiple kissing sessions with him - she says it was after she decided to divorce me. She also said that he broke it off with her, and that she'd love to date him. She feels entirely justified in her actions.

She is so committed to the divorce. She says she is going to file soon. She told me lots of hurtful things, like she has been thinking about other people during sex for most of our marriage.

We talked some about how we have both been setting the stage for all of this. Of course, she thinks it was all me. And, of course, she doesn't see me as an attractive partner now. She explains the relationship with the other guy as a end-of-marriage fling, and it didn't mean anything. The poems and things that she wrote indicate otherwise.

I haven't tried to even go to the house, so I don't know if this plan A thing can really work. We talked about me going over there to do some house work. But it is because she is planning to sell the house.

Truthfully, I've lost almost all of the resolve that I had to make this work. I mean, how can I invest any more in this relationship when she is so set on getting a divorce?

So this afternoon, I can either go to the kids soccer games, or go to the wineries with my friends. At the moment, I'm having a hard time deciding which to do.

<small>[ October 04, 2003, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: tallboy ]</small>

Hoping to get a comment on an email to a common friend:

Hi (hisname)
I know you don't want to get involved, because you know far too much. I know (other man) called (my wife) Sunday morning, and then she went and had coffee with (his wife). Obviously something is going on still. I have lots of evidence, so no one can really deny what has happened.

Obviously, (my wife) is not going to have a long-term relationship with (other man). This is just going to destroy our marriage, if I let it.

As a man who has sufferred the pain of divorce, you probably have some understanding of where I'm coming from here. Please help me, and the little kids. They don't deserve to have their lives torn apart. Marriages can recover from such a thing. I still love (my wife), and want to make the marriage work.

Please take a look at this web site:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5059_qa.html
It is all about coping with affairs.

If you can bring yourself to help, my phone number is (my number).

----------------
Do you think this is a good idea??

Ok, this has been a very long couple of days. At the suggestion of people more knowledgable than I, I sent the OM and many of her friends an email that exposed their relationship, professed my love and willingness to work on things, and expressed concern for the wellbeing of the children. It was a very good letter.

She called me up about 15 minutes after he would have gotten the email. She said "what are you doing? Are you trying to destroy me?" she went on to deny the affair more, and to try to make me feel ridiculous. Also threatened a restraining order. She said I should stop using the kids as pawns.

She called me later in the day, with some lame excuse for talking. She was surprisingly civil, and even a little chatty.

Unfortunately, yesterday we had soccer games for both kids. First game, I got her a coffee to drink. She was really mean, denying the affair, and demanding that I stop. I said I have the right to email whoever I want. She said it was all about me, and that she want's to be divorced so our kids never have to see us fight again.

Here is where I slipped. I said she will have to live with her guilt of what she has done. She said she is not guilty, and I said it was obvious by looking at her. She said she looks great, and I said she looks terrible.

Ok, so the game was over, we talked more as the kids played at the playground. Not such good talk, about the marriage, and her denials and such. All of the denials started brainwashing me a litte, and I believed her to a small extent, and it rattled me. I wondered if my belief that she has had an affair was incorrect.

But, we had to get some lunch. I suggested to the kids we go someplace that my WW likes, and I told her she could join us if she'd like to. Me and the kids drove over there, and she actually joined us. I paid, and we had a really nice, almost normal lunch. Pleasant conversation, really - not about the relationship or the divorce.

However, my daughter later said that she didn't want to sit by me.

She wanted to go home before the 2nd game. So the kids and I ran a couple of errands, got sodas for all of us, and went to the game. She showed up with her mother, and sat away from me (with her mom). She came over and talked to me a little, and was really mean again. She said "it's not about (OM's name), it's about you and me. Look inside yourself"

I said to her that if there wasn't someone else involved, wouldn't she work hard to avoid putting her family through this nightmare? She responded that she doesn't have to do anything, and it's over.

I came back to the apartment completely despondant (I still have the kids). But I think I'm pretty convinced that I need to go back to the house. It's my house, and there is no reason to not be there. If she wants to leave, that is fine with me.

Today, I'm supposed to take the kids apple picking. I thought I'd invite her to go along, as she would really like to do that. I doubt if she will go, but I will try. Primarily, though, I need to work on the plan.

How else can I do plan A if I'm not at the house? It is so easy for her to ignore me, and forget about me, if I'm not there. I'm sure it makes the whole thing much easier for her. Is it possible to do plan A out of the house? After a month out of the house, is it just too late?

<small>[ October 12, 2003, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: tallboy ]</small>

I was like you, agreed to move out of house and let WS live there. Then I found out from OW's H that she was threatening to move out of their house, but had no where to go. I occurred to me that as soon as I moved out, she would move in. WS denied that. He also denied having affair, even after I got 7 motel bills. So I made him move out. He was furious, but it was the best thing I ever did. It put a serious strain on their relationship. He used to spend $200. to $300. a week wining and dining her. Now he has to pay rent, buy food, etc. In other words, he is suffering the consequences of his actions, not me. He has asked to come back, but is still seeing her. Gave him Plan B letter - which I don't recommend to you yet. I found this site too late and didn't do Plan A at all, not a good move.I am working on myself now, fixing up house, getting organized, etc. I hope that the strain his relationship is under will crack it. Last time I checked he was over $200. overdrawn. Do what everyone is telling you and get back in that house. She will have a fit and it might be uncomfortable, but tell her kids need a stable environment. Good luck, it will get better.

Well, things are looking pretty bad. I met her to talk this afternoon, and she announced that the divorce filing would be ready on Monday, the day that they are going to Disney. How nice. She thought it would be better for me to go get it, rather than have it served. She is so considerate.

I said I thought we agreed to wait 3 months - she said that 3 months was what I wanted, and she wants to be in control. We had also agreed to tell each other if we talked to a lawyer - she has already paid the retainer, and they are doing work for her.

Oh, she also denies any extramarital relations, even though virtually every sign is there. I said to her, please, after all this, can you just give me some peace and tell me what happened? She said that she would not talk about it. She didn't say nothing happened, just that she wouldn't discuss it with me. I'm half wondering if I have the wrong OM, or maybe OW.

Tallboy,

Remember you posted me and said that our situations are similar? You also said you were not looking forward to the conflict..
I know you read my post and what everyone said to me.
I didn't believe there was an A. I stayed in denial. I didn't want to move back home .. to give her space and not lose her. I didn't want to take advice from people that already knew what they were talking about. Even though the people on here are not professionals alot of them are going thru or have gone thru the same thing we are. TRUST me I know how hard it is.. But moving home was and is the best thing for me .. and you.
Bye being here I have a chance to be a better father and watch out for my childrens best interest. My wife can not as easily carry on what she was doing ..
In my opinion you need to get a different lawyer .. or at least talk with a different one. THE FIRST THING THE LAWYER I TALKED TOO SAID WAS DO NOT MOVE OUT.
I don't know where you live, but in the state I live in.. if the man moves out it gives the wife a chance to establish a stable enviroment for the children and even though she asked you to move it is considered abandenment to your children, your house, and your wife.. you WILL lose.
I hope the best for you and I do know how hard it is to put faith in people you don't know ..

Interesting looking back on all of this. Of course, I didn't move back to the house. I tried to do a plan A, but to no avail. I fell into so much despair and anger that I had to go to plan B.
I found out from a friend of a friend that she has in fact been having an affair, and it is still going on. I'm sure that all of her friends and family have been just saying "you go girl, do what feels right", when she is destroying our family. They believe her when she talks about what a bad husband I've been. While I'll admit that I haven't been perfect, I've been really good in so many ways.
So I had a long talk with her yesterday about finalizing things. She has been driving the divorce, wants it over as soon as possible. It will probably be done next week. And she doesn't want to keep the house. But I talked to her, and she hasn't looked for a new place, and she says that she doesn't know how much money she'll get. I sent her a spreadsheet a couple of months ago, but for some reason she hasn't looked at it. She is living in denial about what she is doing to some extent.
I guess she thinks I'll just figure it all out for her. She tells me that she is not too good about those things, and I always took care of that kind of stuff. Well, I'm not going to fall into that - there is no way I'll so much as lift a finger to help her. When the divorce is final, the house is mine and I'm changing the locks. She can go live with her parents or something.

I suppose that you'll detect a bit of anger in my tone. Yes, I'm angry. I never wanted this divorce, and I would have stayed with her forever. But she decided to destroy our family.

<small>[ January 03, 2004, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: tallboy ]</small>