Ok, if you've been following the saga along over the past month, you know that my W is having, at the least, an EA with the guy two doors down. I've been trying very hard to do a successful plan A, but find that trying to meet any of her needs is turning out to be an LB. Furthermore, keeping tabs on her and letting her know how I feel about things is also turning out to be LB's as well. She says I have no right to keep tabs on her, and telling her how I feel is just trying to guilt her into stuff. I'm not trying to guilt her into anything, just being honest with how I feel. Also, she says that trying to meet her needs is making her uncomfortable and me being passive and not getting angry is annoying her, she says that just isn't me.

Here are the lastest events. We had a really nice week, and a pretty nice Saturday. She talked to Jenn for most of the session on Wed. and afterward we shared a our first kiss in about 25 days. I told her I missed her and she said, fighting back the tears, that she missed me too. We went to bed and she started to initiate sex then backed off and started to cry. She said it was uncomfortable for her to be intimate with me and that really bothered her. I let it go and said that whenever she was ready it was fine, there is no rush. She maintains that we are over and that she has nothing left to give. Although, she did at one point say that this was going to take a long time and she needed some space...meaning that there was a shot for us after all. Saturday we went out to eat, and painted the bedroom together. Had lots of nice, loose conversation. When we were done with the bedroom, we layed on the couch together and watched a movie (we slept on the couch due to the fumes in the bedroom). I rubbed her back as she drifted into sleep, then I put my arm around her and held her, kind of in the spoon position. She seemed to snuggle in and enjoy the closeness. Well, Sunday everything turned to sh*t again. She went over to the nieghbors and watched the game, not the OM's house although he was there. We PJOA'd an agreement for her to be home at 5:00 after the game and the BBQ at the nieghbors. 5 rolled around and here start the calls and excuses. First it was "I just opened this beer, can I finish it? Then I'll bve right home." I said sure, then me and the kids went outside, I was couped up inside painting (additional coats on the bedroom) and needed some fresh air. Well, she say this and got all angry, wondering if I was just checking up on her. She then proceeded to completely alienate me for allof our friends and made me feel very unwanted outside. Our son stayed out and played with his friends. About 7:00, I called over to the nieghbors and asked if she could send our boy home for supper. She got all defensive like I was giving her attutude. A little later, she came in and said she was going to the other nieghbors for awhile. Well I was in tears when she walked thru the door, I don't know why but I felt very betrayed and hurt at that moment. Anyway, I told her I was going to my dad's for a little and I'd be home later. She insisted on me taking our kids, I said I needed some time to myself and that she has been out and about all day, could she please just watch them for a bit, then I left. I came home at 8:30 to put the kids to bed (bedtime has alway been my time, she is usually pretty shot by that time of day). Her and the kids were out until almost 10:00. I got the kids in bed and she told me she was going over to a friends house to watch a movie, mind you this was at 11:00...ON A SUNDAY!!! Furthermore, she was insistant that she might just crash on the couch and she would be home before I had to go to work. Obviously she didn't realize how f*cked up this all sounded. I begged her to stay, but she went anyway. At about 4:30 am, I woke up and realized how much bullsh*t that story was. I got the kids in the car and drove over to this friends house...but low and behold, our truck wasn't there. Then we went over to the hotel in town, cause I was sure they were there, but no truck there either. At this point, I figured maybe we passed her on the way, I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt here. It just so happens that when we passed the Wal-Mart in town, I noticed my truck parked there, all by itself. So we parked near it and waited. I had the presence of mind to grab the camcorder before we left home, I wanted concrete proof. At about 6:00, the OM pulls up to drop her off at the truck. Of course I jumped out of the car and recorded the whole thing. She pretty much went straight to the truck and didn't say anything, although she pushed the camera in my face. The OM on the otherhand, verbally ripped me a new one. He was cussing and telling me to get a clue, that she didn't love me anymore. She told me she loved me right before she left. It was pretty good, I'd love to show that tape to his folks and get their reaction to it.

By the time we got home, she was so fuming angry that she grabed a suitcase and started packing. We had reached an agreement that if she talked with Jenn again this week that she could take the kids and go to her folks for the week, I'd pick up the kids this weekend and she'd stay there for a couple of weeks. I wa angry when we got home and got on my papa bear soapbox and told her that she was NOT taking the kids, if she wanted to go, fine but no kids. Well, this escalated to the point of her calling an attorny and going to file a restraining order against me. I didn't know about the restraining order, I thought she was running to Target. I did call a lawyer while she was gone, just to see what my rights were at this point regarding the kids. When she got back, I told that we needed to come to an agreement that this was not going to be ugly over the kids. We hashed out an agreement that would let her take the boys for a couple of days, then they come back here for a couple of days, and so on. Niether on of us, we agreed, would be able to go a whole week whithout the kids. Then she told me about the restraining order. She call to have it stopped in its tracks before it could be issued. I'm guessing that she caught it in time as I have not been served as of yet. Anyway, she is talking about divorce very intently. She tried to convince me to go thru mediation rather than going thru court. I said no, I didn't want a divorce and if she did, she would have to drag this thru the courts. She doesn't have the money to do that, and I doubt that her dad would bankroll it at this point...he is pretty upset with her.

Anyway, her is my problem. To this point, everything she has said and done have been per the script outlind in SAA. But with her dragging an attorney into this (even if it only for council) and leaving for her parents house, what do I do now? I was heavily wieghing going to plan B, but was talked out of that at this stage in the game. Is now the time? What is the logical next step? I know she was just acting out of anger and once she cools down, she will be more open to discussion. I still think that everything is going according to plan, for the most part. I like the fact that she is at her folks, it is 55 miles away from here and I think it would be damn hard for her to have any contact with the OM while there, she will be under some close scrutiny from her folks. Do I continue with Plan A, or is it time for plan B?

HELP PLEASE!!!

Hi RJP,

Must be intuition, I just posted that message asking you for an update. I'm sorry that was it.

You are talking with Jenn, so I'm not going to offer strategy advice. I suspect Plan B is indicated, and I suspect this affair will now have to run its course. Your W is deep in the fog....leaving her kids in bed at 11:00 pm to "go out"? Well, anyway, it is typical.

It seems to me that Plan B is in order, primarly to insulate you from her behavior. Get an emergency appointment with Jenn -- you want to go into Plan B the correct way, not in a state of war.

Hang in there, bud.

RJP-

I'll echo Mike's thoughts here. You don't want to go to Plan B without having done as good as job as possible with Plan A. You know, you giving your W permission to go over to the neighbors for a drink, when you knew it would bother you, was wrong. You need to be honest with your W. Eliminating LB's is another crucial part of Plan A. If you don't do a good job on Plan A, the last thing your W is going to remember before you moving to Plan B, is how badly you made her feel and how you didn't meet her needs or negotiate properly with her.

My STBXW and I have struggled mightily over the issue of custody. I did not go to Plan B because I wasn't sure how to make things work out and because I was concerned about the legality of some of the things my WW was caught up in. So there was a safety factor. Maybe I should have given more serious consideration to filing for Legal Separation. Anyway, I was told by legal counsel that as a parent, I could take the kids anywhere I wanted to. Your W can do the same. You can't stop her. However, you are entitled to time with the kids also and that is where you may need the courts to step in if you are not getting that, or more specifically, if the kids are not getting time with you. Remember, it's all about them in the court's eyes too.

Just so you know what kind of fight you could expect from a WS over custody of the kids, my STBXW was involved in three affairs, refused to take salary for her part-time job (her supervisor was one of her OM), gave money to her OM, and had, on occassion, left the kids in the care of two of her OM who were illegal immigrants that used false id's to get driver's lisences, etc. My STBXW still contends to this day that the kids (ages 7-14) should stay with her 5/7-ths of the time. The courts did not grant her wishes and now she is going through the appeals process.

Good luck. I hope you get an early appointment with Jenn. BTW, I found it useful to schedule 1-2 appointments ahead when I was working with Jenn's brother Steve.

HoFS

I feel your pain, I have been there myself. You want your wife back and want to solve the problem. However, there is no quick solution.

I did the same thing, tried to follow her. I tried to read letters and emails. However, I have learned there really is little you can do. If she chooses to leave you, you have no control over that. I am not trying to be harsh. However, the minute I realized that, it was like a boulder was lifted off my shoulder. I was still in tons of pain, but this realization somehow relieved some of this pain. You may not think so, but time does help ease the pain.

I did the same thing, I looked for answers, I tried to see what she was up to. It does not accomplish anything but make her more angry and make her want to get away from you! It seems you are making excuses for your actions. You are trying to justify your actions. You went outside to get air. You went looking for her truck and grabbed the video camera and recorded her. You didn't need to go look for her. You knew what she was up to! You are just tormenting yourself! What could videotaping her possibly accomplish?

In my opinion, you need to be the best father you possibly can be. This does not mean dragging them out in the early morning to look for their mom. Additionally, you need to focus on you! Start taking care of you. Your children need you! You deserve to be happy yourself. If your wife decides that she is making a mistake and trully wants to work on the marriage that would be great. However, you need top make a life for yourself in case she doesn't come back! Additionally, she will see that you are doing this and it may make her realize how special you are. If not, as I said, you will have started to make your life happy without your wife in it! I am not sure this is Plan B or not.....but just my opinion ...I am no expert........I wish you luck....

I don't have anything to say - just that I understand how you feel - just as you understand how I do - I have appreciated your posts for me - wish I knew enough to help.

Hi RJP,

I concur that the videotaping sort of behavior has probably outrun its usefulness. It does seem to be a very human response for the betrayed spouse to continue playing "gotcha!" long after the wayward spouse has made it clear they are no longer playing by the rules of marriage.

If a recovery gets under way eventually, the two of you will need to adddress the honesty and open lifestyle issues.

RJP,
everybody is giving you their best advice and doing it with the best intentions...of this i have no doubt...but when the obvious disaster that is about to befall you rains down upon your head, all you will have left is the great satisfaction knowning that you did everything you could to preserve your marriage! will that be enough to compensate you for the disaster your life is about to endure?! if so GREAT!

your W is talking about restraining orders and divorce action for goodness sake! she is talking about moving your children out of your house and into her parents house! she is going to take your children away from you! do you get it yet!?and the well intentioned people around here are telling that getting legal advice is a LB!?

and tell me, when she gets you thrown out of your house, absconds with the family assets and takes your children away for good and you then have the temerity to object...will that also be to much of a LB?

i may not be the noted expert around here on MB principals and methods but here's something i do know...A RAT WHEN I SEE ONE! if it walks like a rat, talks like a rat and looks like a rat then guess what? it's a rat!

you are being played and being played big time! while your worring about LBs your little sweety is going next door every chance that she has to be with the OM and taking your kids along! and if you believe that this is just an EA at this point then please let me know next time you meet the easter bunny!

get a lawyer!...so you know your rights! just get advice! i'm not say to initiate a divorce! but get legal advice. next thing this sweet young woman will do is claim that your an abusive father and H...and don't think she won't.

and stop begging your W to come back or to behave like your W! just stop! a person is what they do, not what they say and she is doing you big time!

so let the flames begin...
coach

RJP,

I'm in agreement with Mike too. I want you to get verification from Jenn....but it's looking like the timing is saying Plan B. This is so textbook...and indicative of the types of affairs that need to run the course. When the no contact begins....conflict will end. The OM will have to fill ALL her needs including the ones you have filled all these years. The shoes will be too big for him....but until you're out of the picture....she may not be able to see it. Call Jenn and in the meantime, post a Plan B letter that we can help you edit.

I'm sorry buddy. I know this hurts like hell.
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Ok, let me set some stuff straight here.

1) I did talk to an attorney, I do know my rights.

2) She is not trying to take the kids away from me. I am certain of that. She agreed that it is important for them to sleep here, in their home, where I am. I think she only wants equal time, and I think that is fair.

3) I thought that under paln A, I was supposed to keep tabs on her and let her know what I know, how I know it, and how it makes e feel. That was the point of waiting by her car and video taping. Isn't the point to take the shine off the affair?

4) I have posted a plan B letter, it was edited by many people, and Star, I think you where one of them!

5) I have not been giving her permission to go anywhere. I have been open and honest about my feeling from the moment this thing started to unfold. Not laying a guilt trip on her, just being honest. I can't stop her form going anywhere. I don't think she likes the honest reality of what is going on and how it affects people around her.

6) I realize that this will have to run it's course...especially since I know how she is. She is the most stubborn person I have ever met. You can't tell the woman anything, she has to realize it for herself. This will take weeks or months for her to start coming to grips with. Right now I suspect that she is feeling pretty good about getting out of here. She is in a safe and comfortable spot to her. And I'm not there, so she isn't constantly seeing how hurt I am by this. After awhile of no contact, I think she will get curious as to what I've been up to, how things are going, so on. That is when I start the remarketing campiegn. Not pressure to return, just some awefully alluring advertising of the current conditions and her opportunities.

<small>[ September 30, 2003, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: RJP ]</small>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RJP:
<strong>Ok, let me set some stuff straight here.
</strong>

I think that was all stuff that was on the board <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

how about:

7) I have an emergency appointment with Jen to confirm strategy and craft the proper transition to Plan B.

RJP,

I'm going to give it to you from the other side...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">. I had the presence of mind to grab the camcorder before we left home, I wanted concrete proof. At about 6:00, the OM pulls up to drop her off at the truck. Of course I jumped out of the car and recorded the whole thing. She pretty much went straight to the truck and didn't say anything, although she pushed the camera in my face. The OM on the otherhand, verbally ripped me a new one. He was cussing and telling me to get a clue, that she didn't love me anymore. She told me she loved me right before she left. It was pretty good, I'd love to show that tape to his folks and get their reaction to it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is your version of Plan A, right??? What the heck are you thinking??

You know they're having an affair. You know they're having sex. You know they're together as a couple. You don't need to videotape her. You don't need to spy on her email. You don't need to have the phone tapped. You know exactly where you stand---which is not #1.

Now, up to this point, you were doing excellent with many Plan A behaviors. Illustrating this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She talked to Jenn for most of the session on Wed. and afterward we shared a our first kiss in about 25 days.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She went to counseling. That's important. Major advance...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We went to bed and she started to initiate sex then backed off and started to cry. She said it was uncomfortable for her to be intimate with me and that really bothered her. I let it go and said that whenever she was ready it was fine, there is no rush. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You handled this terrifically. She's feeling uncomfortable---and that's good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Saturday we went out to eat, and painted the bedroom together. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Doing household projects together is a great way to fill each other's EN's (especially the non-threatening ones) and demonstrate that there is a future for you as a couple.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When we were done with the bedroom, we layed on the couch together and watched a movie (we slept on the couch due to the fumes in the bedroom). I rubbed her back as she drifted into sleep, then I put my arm around her and held her, kind of in the spoon position. She seemed to snuggle in and enjoy the closeness.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Terrific. Low pressure, acceptable comfort level. Building closeness.

Now, let's look at the issues...

1. Expect your wife to be conflicted. She's like a dope addict. She gets clean, she's her old self (or almost). But once under the influence, she's back to this unrecognizable spouse-from-hell.

Did you check up on her at 5 pm??? While you POJA'ed the time, you should know not to call her there to check up on her. You know where she is. As tempting as it is to casually call her and say "time for dinner---you two-faced traitorous wretch", you know that it's going to upset her. The time to discuss her lateness on returning home is after she's done it, and you're both calm (so not when she walks in the door).

Then you hunted her down on Sunday... bad form.

RJP, it's my impression that you are not ready for Plan B. You need to eliminate these lovebusters. You know what she's doing, and you can obviously see what her scripted reactions will be to this (it's all classic wayward spouse behavior). I'd suggest that you make as much effort as doing the Plan A behaviors that are making progress, while completely eliminating the lovebusting that you're doing when the affair is making you nuts. You need a better outlet. If you end up in Plan B now---I think your wife will be relieved that you're not there to check up on you, as opposed to "gee, when I left, he really was trying hard."

You want her to remember you as a good husband who was in the process of changing for her benefit---to make a better marriage. She will need to move out. She will need to have her affair intensify to the point that it will burn out, and she'll finally figure out that she's had her head up her [censored] for the last xxx months. I don't see that it's likely that you'll get around that. But when she realizes what she's done---you want to have paved the way for her coming back to the marriage with the best Plan A behaviors you can muster.

And because you're doing a good job with this some of the time, it's my guess that you have the capacity and capabilities to bear down and eliminate the lovebusting and make this a great Plan A. Running to Plan B may seem easier or quicker---but at this point I believe that you risk the end result that you want, a restored marriage.

Ask Jenn. I've got $5 that says if you repeat what's in this post, she's going to have you hanging on for at least another couple months.

And about your post...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1) I did talk to an attorney, I do know my rights.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2) She is not trying to take the kids away from me. I am certain of that. She agreed that it is important for them to sleep here, in their home, where I am. I think she only wants equal time, and I think that is fair.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">3) I thought that under paln A, I was supposed to keep tabs on her and let her know what I know, how I know it, and how it makes e feel. That was the point of waiting by her car and video taping. Isn't the point to take the shine off the affair?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No. Plan A is an effort to negotiate the wayward spouse out of the affair, and back to the marriage. The major thrust of it is for the betrayed spouse to analyze their role in the failure of the marriage, and (if possible), begin on a corrective behavioral program to fix some major issues. This is the "marketing" that you refer to below. You want to be making changes to your behavior that will significantly impact your marriage (generally, for the better... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), and you want to only do these things that you can commit to for the long haul (no false advertising).

Exposing the affair is an important step. Gathering information is important if you are unsure about whether there is an affair or not. Videotaping her being dropped off by boyfriend is just kinda stoopid.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">4) I have posted a plan B letter, it was edited by many people, and Star, I think you where one of them!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Keep it in your pocket, big guy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">5) I have not been giving her permission to go anywhere. I have been open and honest about my feeling from the moment this thing started to unfold. Not laying a guilt trip on her, just being honest. I can't stop her form going anywhere. I don't think she likes the honest reality of what is going on and how it affects people around her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's good to not give "permission". You still want her to be open enough to tell you that she's going, but you can say "I know... without approving". Be careful of how frequent the honesty is---it can end up to be a guilt trip. And frankly, she's got a lot to be guilty about, so you're never going to win on this...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">6) I realize that this will have to run it's course...especially since I know how she is. She is the most stubborn person I have ever met. You can't tell the woman anything, she has to realize it for herself. This will take weeks or months for her to start coming to grips with. Right now I suspect that she is feeling pretty good about getting out of here. She is in a safe and comfortable spot to her. And I'm not there, so she isn't constantly seeing how hurt I am by this. After awhile of no contact, I think she will get curious as to what I've been up to, how things are going, so on. That is when I start the remarketing campiegn. Not pressure to return, just some awefully alluring advertising of the current conditions and her opportunities.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree 100% with your assessment of what it's going to take with your wife. She needs to do the full monty with dealing with her "solemate" (yes, that's the kind of guy that's needs to be scraped off of one's shoe). The only issue that I see is that you need to do more Plan A work upfront---you need to do the marketing campaign NOW. When you go to Plan B, you should not have any contact with her. You won't have opportunities to lure her back to the marriage---if you break Plan B when she is not committed to coming back, you'll likely suffer from her returning to the affair, bouncing back to you, etc. And THAT will withdraw love from you even faster. You're dealing with a known situation right now. You know EXACTLY what script she's reading. I'd say "suck it up", and do the Plan A for as long as you can. You'll have your best opportunity to lure her back NOW, not later. But you won't realize that until after the affair is over.

Ok, ok, ok...stop the assault on my moment of weakness already...geez <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I realize that it was not a good plan. I promised her that nobody would see the tape, although I don't think she believes me. I appologized and didn't get mad at all. We talked about it and resolved the issue. We used pjoa to come to terms that where agreeable to both of us regarding how to handle the kids. I think I'm back on the right track. Rage over. I haven't even been calling her constantly over there. I just called once to say goonight to the kids. She did call here twice though.

Mike:

7) I have an appointment with Jen tonight.

Well, then answer me this: How do I do Plan A when she is living elsewhere?

Go to plan B. Plan A will not work while she in in contact with OM. There is a higher probability that the A will run it course and fade away if you are not meeter her needs. The odds are the OM will not meet her needs and then suddenly she will start seeing the OM with a clear head. You have been meeting some of her need sinc you had a wonderful Saturday. Go to plan B but do not do any LB's but do protect yourself with an attorney. She is like a achoholic. She was fine until the alcohol was in-front of her again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RJP:
<strong>I have an appointment with Jen tonight.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good!

FYI -- K was my mentor here three years ago (non-affair crisis), and I respect his opinion above all others.

If you have the ability to tamp down the LBing and keep on Plan A for awhile, that is clearly the correct "MB" course. Frankly, the videotaping scene sort of led me to believe that maybe you would not be able to deal with the OM living 2 doors down and her flagrant affair behavior and keep up a Plan A that has any sort of forward momentum. (No insult intended -- nor could I, I'm sure). I suspect that will be the focus of Jen's questions tonite. Make sure you are honest with her. Jen, I mean.

If you are going to try and hang in on Plan A, then I would advise you to use the EN board community to try and fine tune your efforts. Do you have a feel for what your W's top ENs are?

RJP:

I'd second Mike's advice and listen to Jen, be honest, and figure out on a plan that you think you can do for at least a few weeks. Evaluate your progress and how you feel, and adjust. And not to beat up on other's advice here---but when hubby says

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A will not work while she in in contact with OM.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that's a complete load of nonsense. Plan A is actually ONLY for when a spouse is actively having an affair. The problem on these boards are that there are a lot of opinions---some good, some not so. If you're doing counseling with Jenn, I'd suggest that you put her advice over all others here---ask for help when you need it, but confer with her when you get "good sounding but contrary" advice. When I was dealing with my wife's affair, I was in intensive counseling with Steve. There was no forum. And I'm happy that's was the case---nothing to distract me from the task.

To answer your question about Plan A while the spouse isn't present. In many ways, it's easier than when she's living with you and running over to the neighbors. You simply act nice when she's around, avoid lovebusting at all costs, and meet what needs she will allow you to meet (family committment will be big here, especially with you having the kids). It's not as effective, but if she moves out, you should definitely be able to hold it together until the new year---and my guess is that Jen would suggest Plan B at some point around there.

But listen to her---even over me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hubby:
<strong>Plan A will not work while she in in contact with OM. </strong>

Hubby -- as pointed out by K, this is dramatically in error. The term "Plan A" is used loosely on these boards, but by actual Harley definition it is a framework of actions for a betrayed spouse to take WHILE an affair is active. To quote from the article "What is Plan A and Plan B?" by Willard Harley:

But for the betrayed spouse, waiting for the affair to end seems like an eternity. The wayward spouse can't seem to make up his or her mind -- one moment committing to the marriage and the next moment committing to the lover. To help a betrayed spouse survive that painful period of vacillation -- the time it takes for an affair to die a natural death -- I recommend two plans. If the first plan (plan A) is unsuccessful in separating the wayward spouse from the lover, the second plan (plan B) is followed until the affair is ended. This sequence -- plan A followed by plan B -- represents the most sensible approach to handling a wayward spouse's inability to decide between the lover and the betrayed spouse.

So, then, what is plan A and plan B?

Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

As you can see, a crucial aspect of Plan A is for it to be undertaken with an absence (or, in practice, a minimum) of lovebusting. From RJP's case history here, reasonable people can disagree whether he is up for that challenge. But you are factually incorrect in stating that Plan A is not to be enacted while an affair is active...that is its raison d'etre.

Well, guess what. just about everyone here was wrong. Jenn said it is time for plan B. She said if I'd want, a few more days of plan A, but another week is probably too long.

So, I guess the plan is B.

RJP,

With cerri gone, I felt like a lone voice saying Plan B.....and I get no joy from being in agreement with Jenn, but I think the situation is simply too volatile and right in your face for a long plan A. Her rebeliousness and willingness to flaunt this affair tells me that she is going to have to play this out. In which case, I'd prefer that it didn't hurt you so badly...thus the protection of Plan B....and by avoiding that....save the love you have left for her.

Sorry I forgot about the editting of you Plan B letter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> . Be sure and run it by Jenn...but seems like you did a great job now that I do remember.

Good Luck. Start thinking about how to deal with visitation and emergencies. Also what living arrangements. What do you have planned?