</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Want My Wife Back:
<strong>What do you guys think? Should I show them the tape?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uh....that would be a no.

I think your exchange with her was less than courteous, and courtesy should be your goal in the very limited contact you have. Calling her parents right after and trying to turn them against her is a lovebuster. Don't worry about their opinions -- she is their duagfhter, you can't look for them to side with you, and you are just making a bad impression by trying and probably underlining some of her aspersions against you.

You have a strong hand with the reality of no contact and finances settling in on her-- play that hand with grace.

Since everyone one here is about split about whether or not you show your in-laws the tape, I would have to agree with Cerri. However, if you still have doubts and your in-laws are still questioning the validity of your alleged accusations why not tell them that you have documented proof on video and can show show them if they choose to see it. That way you leave the decision up to them when they are ready to face it. You have concrete evidence. They have her word. Let them choose. If they say YES they want to see it, show it to them. If they say NO, at least you've offered without hiding anything. Either way you don't have to feel any guilt over it. If your W freaks because they see the video, she have to explain her actions to them and not you. If she were my daughter, I'm wouldn't be so understanding of her behaviour.

I agree with SAB.... tell them that you have a tape showing her out with this guy at 4am and if they would like to see it they can, but that it's not very pretty.

And no, it's not demanding, a disrespectful judgment, an angry outburst, independent behavior that hurts the marriage or an annoying habit. It's exposure of an affair.

I don't see it as an attempt to turn her parents against her but rather as evidence to persuade them to do the right thing for their grandchildren and in the long run, their daughter. The best thing they can do as parents is to take a strong stand, tell her that this is harmful to herself and her children and encourage her to stop. Their disapproval of what she is doing would be a really good thing.

Even with irrefutable evidence, they may not become an ally for you, but it's very likely they will stop defending everything she does.

C

I suspect that with her living there the "secret" of the outside entanglement will soon become clear enough to her parents. And since the W is smearing our correspondent here by saying he is acting over-the-top, I would be concerned that the tape, as narrated above, might inform them about the affair and cement their opinions against him as a husband/parent in one fell swoop. I would also be concerned that the tape of him driving around in the middle of the night, with the kids in tow, be used some day in a custody hearing to show him in a poor light.

There is too much gasoline on this fire right nbow. Let things settle out, let the reality of Plan B sink in to her, no more offensive campaigns right now, that's what I would counsel. The pressure is being brought to bear, let it play its role.

All good points Mike. I think that if RJ offered a copy of the tape they would turn him down. It's more the idea that he has it than that they would actually view it. You are right though that hauling bitty kids around in the middle of the night doesn't play well in the right hands. We all get it here, and most of us would probably consider something similar, but in the cold light of day with a sarcastic opposing atty, mmmmm.... well, it's not pretty.

I would still make the offer and bank on that they would decline but that the seed would be not only planted but fertilized. But that's a personal opinion more than anything.

C

Hey guys. What I was actually thinking was to write them a nice elegant letter reassuring them of my intentions to perserve the M and care for and protect their daughter for life. I'd also include some literature (off this site) about infedelity and plans A & B, just to reassure them that I'm not acting malicously or trying to hurt their daughter or grand kids. I was also thinking of including a copy of the tape. But maybe noe I will just explain the situation that occurs on the tape and offer it to them for viewing if they so choose. I was going to give this all to them in a manilla envelope, in person, while W was at work Saturday morning. That way she could not intercept it before they had a chance to peruse the contents. Problem; they (W, kids, her folks) are going up to Fergus Falls this weekend after Wis done at work for Grandparents 50th anniversary. I don't know if giving this info to her folks the same day is a good idea. I doon't want to spoil the event for them. So, maybe I'll just mail it to her dad at work. How is that idea sounding to ya'all... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> !?!?!

I like the letter and the education idea. I'm not thrilled with putting the tape into the mix. It doesn't show the best PlA work ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> LOL

But now, aren't you worried that she is reading here and knows everything you are thinking about doing?

Well, maybe. I don't think she checks enough to really keep tabs on me. She is too busy with her own stuff. Anyway, what good would it do her? If I give the stuff to her folks when she isn't around, and the educational info is directly from the mouth of a PhD. and not myself, who cares what spin she puts on it...before or after. The idea of offering the tape to them will intrigue them regardless of what she says to them.

I would also pull some info off Shirley Glass' site and mine as well so that it doesn't look like you found just one wacko on the web who agrees with you, but that there are several people who specialize in battling infidelity, saving marriages and who say much the same thing.

www.shirleyglass.com
www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Want My Wife Back:
<strong>The idea of offering the tape to them will intrigue them regardless of what she says to them.</strong>

I would not confirm the existence of that tape to anyone on her side of the possible future legal battle.

However, if worse comes to worst, I'm sure the people at Fox would be interested <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Mike C2:

However, if worse comes to worst, I'm sure the people at Fox would be interested <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Incorrigible <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Well, I got the cold shoulder from the in-laws tonight. Wow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> !!! I didn't get a "Hi" or "How are ya doing" not even an acknowledgement that I was standing in their entryway and was almost run over by the mother in-law. Nothing, no eye contact, no smile...not a damn thing!!!

I called over there before I left to pick up the kids. The W said she needed some money for the kids, as they are going out of town this weekend. I asked how much. She tells me: "A lot. My check book is overdrawn." I said to her as politely as possible, that it wasn't my problem. If the kids need money, that is one thing. But her check book is her responsibilty. She got angry and tried to tell me that it was going to affect the kids if she couldn't use her checking account to buy stuff for the kids. I said: "Use cash!"

One thing I didn't expect from plan B, fog talk is absolutely funnier than hell!!! It borders on incoherant babbling. Totally irrational, void of any logic, complete nonsense. And whats worse is, I think her mom and dad are buying into it. Geez, wake up already!!! Anyway, I think I'll put together the letter and info packet this weekend, I'll mention concrete proof but not the tape specifically, and leave it for her dad Monday. I don't think they will at all be interested in it, but it is worth the effort I think. It used to terrify me that she would turn them on me. Now that it has happened, it's not so scary at all. There really isn't much they can do. And, if they are in denial, and want to make me the bad guy, so be it. She is an adult and will be able to make her own decisions when she hits rock bottom. I'll still be here with my arms wide open, ready to welcome her back...with some conditions of course... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ October 09, 2003, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]</small>

So would you be willing to run the letter and the contents of the packet past your MB advisory team first?

Good job on the check book, I'm wondering why you are taking her calls?

C

Well, of course I'll run it past the team here. I don't take a breath without making sure it serves the right purpose. As for taking her calls, well that was actually my call to her. She answered the phone over there. I called to let her know that I was on my way to pick up the kids. I didn't ask to talk to her, I would have let whoever answered know that I was on the way.

This is a good example of what I was talking about when I asked how to not answer her questions. She answered the phone, I said that I'm on the way, her reply was that she needed money for this weekend. All I said was ok, how much? How should I have better handled that exchange? I don't want to be rude to her, and I think if I would have asked for somebody else when she answered it would have come off as childish and rude, not to mention annoying to whoever had to talk to me due to my refusal to speak to her. I guess what I'm having trouble with is the idea of not communicating with her about the kids. I know that no means no, even as it pertains to the lil' ones. However, I don't see any other way to handle it. The conversations are short, to the point, and only about the kids. Other than that I think I'm detaching quite nicely. I'm actually a little excited about the independance, not that I'm not eagerly awaiting for her return, but it is a pleasant change.

Well, one way might be to have all communications go throuigh her mother. But perhaps Cerri has a different take.

As requested, here is a draft of the letter to her folks. Let me know what you think.
-------------------------------------------

October 10, 2003

Dear Dan and Cathy:

I’m writing you this letter to reassure you of my intentions to preserve my marriage to your daughter and to offer her care, love, support, and protection for the rest of our lives. I love her more than anything in life. I cannot put in to words how I long for her to return to me and to start the rebuilding of our relationship. It is the right thing for her, for me, and for our children for us to give our marriage every possible opportunity to recover.

However, this is a process. As with any process there are steps that need to be followed in a particular order for the process to be successful. In this particular case, the first step in the process is for the inappropriate relationship Nikki shares with our neighbor Tom to end. I hove gotten the feeling lately that you may doubt my claim that they are having an affair. I want you to know that I have concrete proof that they are. While I have no evidence of a physical affair, they are most certainly engaged in an emotional affair.

Please allow me to present to you key elements of my case for labeling this relationship as an affair. First, they spend a very inappropriate amount of time together at very odd hours of the evening, alone. Second, he has felt the need to express to her that he has romantic feelings for her, and she has expressed to me that she has feelings for him of a romantic nature as well. Another point is that during our marriage, we have had more than our share of ups and downs. In every case, Nikki has shown the drive and shouldered much of the effort to fight through the down times and to make our relationship better. Suddenly, with the introduction of Tom into our lives, she is no longer interested in our marriage. Finally; I have concrete, documented evidence of her being dropped of at our truck by him at 6:00 a.m. on a Monday morning. In that particular incident, she had told me she was going to a friend’s house to watch a movie and might “crash” on their couch. I awoke at around 4:00 a.m. the next morning with the feeling that something wasn’t right about this. I drove by this friend’s house and Nikki was nowhere to be found. Giving her the benefit of the doubt, I started for home assuming that I may have past her on the way. Much to my chagrin, the truck was parked all by itself in the Wal-Mart parking lot. I waited near the truck until about 6:00 a.m. At that time, Tom pulled up in his truck and dropped Nikki off. I approached her and asked for her to explain. She was unable to give me an immediate explanation of her actions. As I’ve mentioned, I have irrefutable, concrete evidence of this event. Let me know if you want to see it, and I’ll make the necessary arrangements.

It is important for you to know, that despite her recent actions, I love her very much. I harbor no ill feelings, anger, or resent towards her. She is very important to me and I want to do everything I can to have her return to our marriage and our family. I can fully understand why some of my recent actions may not make sense to you. I have explained to you that I’m working very closely with a group called Marriage Builders. These are people who specialize in infidelity and recovering marriages after the fact. I’ve also done considerable research into the theory’s and practices of a number of other groups who specialize in infidelity and the subsequent recovery. The consensus is the same across the board. The affair must be over for our marriage to start recovery. Marriage Builders suggests a course of action for bringing about the swift end of an extramarital affair called plans A & B. I’ve included some literature off their website on the intentions and specifics of these plans. I’ve also included some information from some of the other groups I’ve studied as well. I realize that I’ve explained plan A and plan B to you on a prior occasion, and the literature included will do a good job explaining it as well. But, please allow me to explain the specifics of them as they pertain to our case here.

In plan A, I did everything I could to meet her most important emotional needs. I did my best at not being the source of her anger and discomfort. At the same time, I exposed the affair to family and people who care about her and our marriage. Also, I kept tabs on her and let her know: what I know, how I know it, and how it makes me feel. That is plan A in a nutshell. I did this for three weeks. When she chose to move out, and make no mistake she moved out, the strategy shifted to plan B. I wanted to leave plan A with a good impression, so I waited until after we took the kids to Camp Snoopy to implement plan B. We had a great day with the boys at Camp Snoopy, however when we went to dinner she was adamant that our relationship was over and that I should move on because she already has. On the strong advice of the Marriage Builders coach, I moved to plan B.

Plan B is where I am to end all contact with her. This has become too painful for me to bear and my love for her is suffering because of it. I need to protect that love from being destroyed. Also, in plan B, I am to stop meeting all of her needs. This includes but is not limited to: conversation, companionship, financial support, domestic support, sexual fulfillment, and affection. There are others as well. Right now it seems to me that she is sitting on the fence trying to decide if she wants our marriage or this other lifestyle. Plan B is to put the pressure on her to decide. Sort of a stance that it is “…him or me!” if you will. Changing the locks on the house, cutting her off financially, and not having contact with her are all part of this strategy. She has stated that she wants a divorce. This brings the reality of divorce front and center to her. Up until now, I have been competing with a fantasy for her love and devotion. The fantasy is that life as a single part-time parent, and being alone or even with this other guy will somehow be better than our marriage. I realize that I have made numerous mistakes in this marriage, so has she. I’m confident that I have the tools and resources to make our marriage happier, healthier, and more passionate than it has ever been. But, I have done all I can to bring her back. The ball is in her court.

In closing, I am grateful to have been blessed with being part of her life for the past five years. I hope that I can be a part of it in the future. However, while this affair is going on, I simply cannot be an active part of her life. I love her. The door to reconciliation is always open. I will be here with my arms open wide if she ever wants to return to me and recover our marriage. She will be in my heart and in my prayers always. I love her more than words could ever explain.

Respectfully,

<small>[ October 10, 2003, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]</small>

Ok, here are some articles that I've found to include with the letter:

From MB:
"What are plan A and Plan B"
"Infedelity: The lessons children learn"

From DearPeggy.com:
"Common patterns in dealing with affairs"
"Emotional Affairs"

From Cerri's site:
"Steps that are essential for recovery following infedelity"
"Ending the affair: Steps you can take"

Does anyone know of any other articles that would be pertinant here?

Hey, should I include a copy of the plan B letter? Or would that be crossing the lines of her privacy? And, if that is the case, would it not be an LB to do so?

WMWB:

First, I'm glad that you're finding some humor in the "fog-ese" that accompanies an affair. Some of it is downright hilarious---until you remember that it's actually happening to you (that does throw a bit of a damper on it).

As to your letter to the inlaws, I would suggest that it be cut down significantly. The first two paragraphs are fine. I would not detail any of your proof to your in-laws here, so eliminate paragraph 3. I might suggest that at the end of your second paragraph that you let your inlaws know that your intent is not to run down their daughter---but that you want to save the marriage. The details of MB, Plan A and B---those should be left out too (IMO). If they ask you in person about any of this (affair proof, what your strategy is), I would certainly offer it to them. But don't jam it down their throats.

And your final paragraph is great. You want to let your inlaws know that there's a problem, but that you keeping saving the marriage as your top priority. You might also put in a word about making the kids transitions as easy as possible, if your inlaws are being used for that purpose...

Ok, I can see maybe cutting paragraph 3 out of the letter. But the explanation of strategy is the very reason I'm writing the letter. They where with me right up to the point when I started plan B. Her mom especially, I think, sees it as cruel and as a punishment. And, on the outside looking in, I can see why it might look that way. I think they need to knwo why I'm doing this. I don't expect their full support, but I really believe that we can recover from this. If that is the case, I don't want anymore tension or ill feelings between our M and the in-laws.