You are right, I am in no mans land. I don't know what to do here. I find myself thinking of little things that I miss about her being here and it just makes me so sad. I just want to hold her, and want her to hold me back. Of course I don't want her back at ANY cost, I want her back as a loving wife and mother. You guys know what I mean.

Anyway, I'm just having a really hard time with this. I hate not having her in my day to day life. I know we could have such a great marriage, I just need another chance. It is so hard for me to just sit here and wait for her to want to come back. I feel like I should be doing something to actually get her back. I'm praying to God every minute of every day for my W. I ask for her to have strength and courage to come home and try for us. I pray for her soul and for her emotional safety. I pray for her to come through this and be the wife and mother we had before. I pray that I can can have the strngth and patience to do this right. I pray that I can be the husband that she needs me to be. I pray for my family and my kids. I pray for my kids well being and that I can protect them from this.

I don't know how to do this or what to do next. None of this seems right anymore. I just want my wife back.

Remember, you are doing a plan B until she stops communication with OM. Once she gives up the OM, you should go back to plan A.

When she discuss her fears about you changing the locks and you calling the police, did you explain why those events happened. She need to see those situations occured because of decisions she made not things that happened because you are moving on in your life without her. Reverse the situation for her, if you had hit her, what would she had done? Do you have keys to her parents house? If you had moved out of the house, would she not be confortable with you still having keys to the house to do whatever you wanted when she was not there. My wife had the same problem but with a different issue. When I caught her with the OM for the second time( 2 years after the first time), I closed all of the savings and checking accounts and opened new accounts in my name only. I took my wife months to understand the reasoning for this. She could not understand that having an A ment I could not trust her with anything.

When you are discussing issues like this, make sure you are as calm as possible not showing anger.

<small>[ October 24, 2003, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: hubby ]</small>

WMWB, you are a nice sweeet guy, and the way you are reacting shows that.
What you have to remember is that you are dealing with a fog-monster who will manipulate, lie, scream, hit and do whatever she can to have her cake and eat it too. In this case that means keep the OM in her life but not face the reality of what she is doing to her family. By withdrawing into Plan B you will make that reality more stark, perhaps stark enough to puncture the fog...in time.

Hang in there. Focus your energy and attention on the kids, on the house on working out, whatever.

Gee Mike...<blushing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> >...I never knew you felt this way...

I understand what you are saying, it is just really hard to do. She seems so close to coming back to reality. I'm having a hard time staying patient. She is coming over after I get home from work to drop off the kids and so we can talk about the day care/pre-school issue. I'm going to try and keep it all business and not get to emotionally hung up on her words and demenor. She said she didn't have any plans as of yet, but I'm sure she'll be with OM tonight. When she said she didn't have plans, I really wanted to ask her out, but thought better of that plan and decided not to. I feel like she wants me to be competing with this guy, and if I don't (i.e.: plan B) she will get the idea that he can have her, I don't care. Am I reading WAY, WAY too much into this?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Want My Wife Back:
<strong> She is coming over after I get home from work to drop off the kids and so we can talk about the day care/pre-school issue.</strong>

You talk to your wife more than I talk to mine.

I suppose a decision has to be made regarding the day care issue, but I would try to avoid drawing this out into a husband and wife discussion. If she has found a daycare and you are okay with it, fine, done. You split the cost. Not 51-49 -- 50-50. If that leaves her in the red each month, maybe she should know that now instead of when the divorce is complete. Maybe the OM will kick in for her day care. That might be a good conversation for them to have <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

She is undoubtedly coming over to try and get a better financial deal. Remeber if you are in the house and carrying most of the costs -- SHE should be pitching money to you for child support. Be courteous and calm but firm -- don't make her wayward spouse affair lifestyle any easier.

And stop talking about reconciliation. She knows her choices, you constantly reiterating it just keeps her aware that her options remain open for the foreseeable future. And that is not making her come home.

Personally, if I were in your shoes I would not have her in the house for that conversation. Meet her outside. Talk in the car. Keep that boundary up.

If she does come in.....change something. Move the furniture around. Take the pictures off the wall. Send a signal that life is not static.

Good points Mike. Well, she came over and didn't want to come inside. We talked on the step. I did offer her a beer, which she accepted. She basically stated that she pulled our son out of pre-school because she could no afford to be doing all the driving assoiated with it. And she was tired of packing a lunch and eating it in the car, being in town for 5 hours waiting for me to get home and not being able to bring the kids over here. She was pretty crabby and in considerable fog. Said it was my fault that she couldn't afford gas or come here during the day. I was polite, but held my ground. She said she will probably be spending the night at a friends house because she has to work in the morning here in town. This is where I may have caved a little. I told her if she wanted to, she could sleep on our couch. That I wouldn't read anything into it, but that way she could be with the boys tonight. She just cocked her head and rolled her eyes. I said good bye and wanted to shake her hand. She responded with a half hearted shake as she was turning away. I asked why she acted like I have the plague everytime i try to touch her. She said it was because if she gives an inch I try to take a mile. She may have a point there.

She didn't try to work out a better deal, she told me about the day care / pre-school she found, sounded good to me. We agreed on it and a couple of other items pertaining to childcare. Then she left. Pretty painless for me, although i can see her pain when she is in the fog like this. I feel for her and wish she would just wake up and smell the roses already. I've been asking God for some kind of sign all day today, I was hopeful it would be revealed during our meeting, but nothing yet...at least that I'm aware of. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Ok, WMWB, let me give you another view on Plan B and why it works, from a FWW.

Each time you reassure her of your love...each time you offer your hand only to get it slapped...you're enabling her to cake eat. She feels comfortable because she knows she's still got some leeway with you. For YOUR sake AND HERS, you need to back off and get back in to a solid Plan B. I know there will still be contact due to kids. But dont' allow her to suck you in to her life issues. If this is what happens and you end up confused each time you talk...then find a way to avoid those situations.

She NEEDS to feel the pain of the consequences she's brought upon herself. She needs to suffer. She needs to fight her way out of the fog. The fact that she may not believe you still care is a PLUS!! It brings her thoughts back to YOU. She's wondering why YOU don't want her anymore and why it's so easy for you to move on. This causes her to look at herself and what she's done to bring about the situation.

Have to run a minute....

WMWB - hey how ya doing today? thought you could use a laugh .. I got a kick out of it..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3146042998

I have to give you your own advice back .. maybe it's time you went into plan B ( HINT, HINT ).. not that I know what A plan B is .. except NO CONTACT !!!

Send me an email first at Lost_Confussed@hotmail.com and I'll email you back .. ( that way I have your correct email addy.)

Hope - just wanted to tell you thanks again. Your insight has been a great help for myself and probably also for WMWB

I'm back.

What I'm saying is that all the things you worry about are based on your feelings and thoughts. But from her side of the fence, the less you pursue...the less you comfort and assure her...the more her thoughts turn towards you and what you're thinking and feeling. She'll push all the more to gain that assurance...and if you cave...she'll sit firmly on the fence again.

Back off...waaaaay off. Let her squirm. Do not assure her of anything. IT WORKS FOR A REASON!!

Hey guys, thanks for the advice. Man was she deep in the fog yesterday, wow. She called from work this morning, to talk to the kids. I was short with her, giving the phone directly to our kids. When they were done, I just picked up the phone and said good bye. She had alot more she wanted to talk about, all I saud was good bye...over and over. Finally she asked why I was so angry....DUH!!! I said I wasn't, good bye and hung up. When she got there, I asked her what I should do with the curtains in the kitchen and dining room (she made them) because i was getting some new ones. She seemed a little upset by that. Then I asked if this was the type of separation where we are seeing other people. She didn't answer so I asked again. She said that was up to me. I told her that I probably wouldn't be any time soon but I'm sure I will someday, this bullsh*t is getting old.

Suffice it to say, she was a little on edge while she was there picking up the kids. It was kinda fun. By the way, I'm NOT planning on seeing other people...just planting the seeds.

<small>[ October 25, 2003, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]</small>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Want My Wife Back:
<strong>Then I asked if this was the type of separation where we are seeing other people. She didn't answer so I asked again. She said that was up to me. I told her that I probably wouldn't be any time soon but I'm sure I will someday, this bullsh*t is getting old.</strong>


That probably went a long way to assuage any guilty feelings she might be having about her affair, don't you think?

Oh, hell, I don't know. I looked at it as another dose of reality. What am I supposed to do? It doesn't seem that she is feeling very guilty anyway. If I'm too nice, you all tell me I'm blowing it. If I ask a question about the reality of our situation, I'm pacifying her guilt. If knowing that the door is always open and that I'll always be here to fall back on is allowing her to sit onthe fence; isn't asking the question about other people telling her that I may not always be here to fall back on? I didn't say I was going to see other people, just putting it out there that some day I might.

Am I wrong here?

Being nice is breaking Plan B. Being mean is breaking Plan B. Hinting about dating is breaking Plan b. Inviting her to sleep on the couch is breaking Plan B. Telling her you'll be there waiting for her is breaking Plan b.

Why? They all require contact and conversation, which break rule 1 through 5 of Plan B -- NO CONTACT.

Plan B is a brilliant stratagem in that it accomplishes many goals -- preserves the BS' love, shocks a WS by a withdrawal of ENs, protects against LBing during a blatant affair, etc. What you are doing with the almost daily conversations is weaning her off the marriage.

When you aren't in Plan A meeting ENs the number one goal is to not LB -- how do you suppose she considered your talk about dating?

You could also convey to her that because of your hurt, you are vulnerable to an affair of your own, and if that happened then the marriage would be indeed in its final days. This is not to say that you will have an affair but it is a very real possibility that she must be aware of it. Many WS's are terrified that their BS's will do to them the same, and just maybe your WW is one of these, hopefully.

Ok Mike, I see your point. But by the very nature of our situation (the kids), we have contact. I'm trying to go back into plan B as we speak. I called to say good night to the kids and didn't talk to the WW. Just the boys. I'm trying to put this plan B back together again after a couple of weak days here. Honestly, I am.

I think what happened was, she softened a little so i went back to plan A by accident. Telling her it was ok to sleep on the couch (which she didn't do by the way) was part of that. Obviously I need to stay strong here even when she softens. Let her come to me, that is stategy here, right?

WMWB.... you're not my client, but if you were I would chewing your a** big time. You are not only not protecting you, but you are sending very mixed messages.

On the one hand you tell her that you want her to come home and that you love her, but then on the other you are short and perceived as chilly on the phone. YOU CANNOT MIX PLA AND PLB.... THEY DO NOT MIX.

I just posted something about this on my thread last week, how to do a good PlB.....let me find it for you.

I personally think that you are not scheduling with Jenn nearly as frequently as you should, and I think you need to get with the program and do a real PlB. I also disagree that contact is necessary, if you were remarried and the new Mrs. WMWB was not enthusiastic about contact between you and the X, POJA and the future success of the new marriage would depend on finding a way to eliminate contact. If you are determined you'll find a way, the only one making it impossible is you.

From my thread....

A Good PLB....

Well, first we need to assume of course that one has done a good PlA - with all the necessary components of exposure and confronting the spouse and the OP. And that a willingness to address the issues in the marriage has been explicitly stated. And that love busters have been and continue to be addressed. Attempting to meet needs is good too, but the other things are crucial. Meeting needs alone won't do much as long as the OP is in the picture because the bank is generally closed to the spouse. It's the presentation as an attractive alternative that really needs to be made. But keep in mind, you can't fix a marriage or fill a LBnk as long as the A is in progress or there is lingering contact.

Ok, so with that disclaimer, what does a good PLB look like? In a word, selfish.

First and foremost, PlB is defined by no contact. The original MB thought on this was to remove all need meeting and let the WS see how much they would miss the spouse. But over time that has changed. It is generally considered that PLB is to protect the BS from the pain of dealing with the A.

But if you take both those reasons and the idea of presenting an attractive alternative to the OP when the A ends into account you can see quite plainly that for any of it to be effective there must be no contact.

First the idea of PlA's being an attractive alternative cannot mix well with not meeting needs - if there is contact. It makes the BS look like a cold uncaring jerk and not at all attractive.

On the other hand, there is no protection if the BS continues to attempt to meet needs sporadically while being faced with the pain of having to see the A up close and personal. It hurts too much.

But with my clients it's more than just not having contact. I am very proactive about this and it's not just a PlB sort of thing. I call it quarantining the marriage and the BS. With no contact the BS can still be caught up in the day to day pain of the A. Either by posting here, talkking endlessly to friends, monitoring the spyware or writing long sad tirades in a journal.

What I like to see is that there is detachment. Not from the marriage and not from the spouse, but from the present situation. And the way to do that is to get your mind on something else. Get out of the house, have friends (SS, AoM), join a book club, start a new hobby, spend time with the kids.

One of the biggest dangers to the marriage when there is infidelity (or abuse or neglect) is that the hurting partner will eventually decide that the other guy isn't worth the time and the effort and will eventually decide to bail.

If I'm going to be successful at helping marriages stay together then I need the BS strong, healthy, and reenergized after PLB... not worn out with obsessing for however long it takes. I need a buffer zone between them and the A.

Reclaiming your life while still holding on to the commitment to the marriage is what defines a good PlB in my mind. It looks selfish and it feels wrong, but it really is about protecting the BS and ultimately the marriage.

I wrote a thing for the yahoo group last week about being married and alone, and talked about this very thing.

~~~~~~

Ok, sorry if I'm biting your head off, it's been a long week.

C

That's ok Cerri, i needed that. Mike tried to do the same I think, but his approach was more subtle...I think he like to make me doubt myself. Anyway, thank you.

What should be the game plan from here on then...no flames...I know it is plan B. I'm just wondering what is the best way to go about it from here. I can talk to other family members when calling for kids, I can stay out of sight and not talk to WW when droppingoff and picking up kids. Other than that, what more should I be doing? I'm trying to live my life as much as possible here. I not dwelling over what she is doing. I'm not keeping tabs on her. I was more polite to her becasue she started to be more polite to me...I know that was a mistake on my part, but that is why. We do need to coordinate issues like the pre-school issue with each other.

What more can I do here? Don't be shy, let me have it with both barrels.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Want My Wife Back:
<strong> That's ok Cerri, i needed that. Mike tried to do the same I think, but his approach was more subtle... </strong>

lol....well, that is the first time I have been charged with subtlety <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WMWB, Plan has been explained to death to you....the rules, the concepts, and the reasoning. It is all a matter of will power from here.

I know. That is the hard part.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well, that is the first time I have been charged with subtlety
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OMG! How funny! Mike....you think maybe we should just get a couple of big rocks and beat him over the head??? WMWB, You can do this.