This site is an answered prayer and I hope others find as much comfort here as I have over the past few days. The website is so good that I’ll start reading HNHN and SAA tonight.

My WW is in an ongoing EA that went to a PA for one weekend in early August. The OM lives about 250 mi away so they have a problem with continuing the PA, for now. DDay was 9/28/03 when she revealed the affair to me. Since then I’ve felt empty, stayed with a great friend and good counsel but still have daily contact with W, and somehow slipped into the beginnings of Plan A.

She learned of him through a mutual friend and met him in March. Then they began communicating intermittently via email (I assume) and phone. I have had several close female friends and never had any problems, so she felt that their budding friendship and slight attraction wouldn’t be a problem for her. They met a couple of times when she was away on business and hung-out, and she began to feel a stronger attraction for him. During this time, our relationship was waning from lack of attention to the marriage, since we were working so hard on house, dog, careers, and athletics. We rarely got to spend time together, and I was a grump and not attending to her needs or her to mine for that matter.

Then in early August, she went to his town on business and hung out with him again. They went to watch a fight (very romantic), dancing and drinks, then to Denny’s. Before Denny’s there was a little kiss, which fueled the 2am flames of romance. Then on some country road back to the mutual friend’s house they pulled over and started the PA. When she broke this news to me she said she knew it was wrong but wanted to do it badly and went so far as to say she enjoyed it. When they finished, she felt no remorse. The next morning they slept together again and then she returned home to me.

Totally unaware of the situation, the only things I could see was the ever widening space between us. The lack of sex was nothing new, she has never been much more than a willing participant and never enthusiastic. Between the PA and DDay, OM went to dinner with her, myself and both sets of our parents. Even going so far as to shake my hand and be chummy. Now I feel like such a fool. When I told my folks, they immediately guessed him, saying something was just off about him. She’s going to tell her folks in person this weekend and I have no idea how that will turn out since she comes from a pretty religious family. I could use prayer for that one.

Since the unprotected sex with the OM (she’s a fool), she did have sex with me once so I’ve gone in for STD testing. We talk for 2-3 hours about every other night. Essentially no touching. She’s sending the ILY’s but I’m not buying. They still talk on the phone also about 2 h every other night so it’s ongoing. I’m trying to decide if I want to be with her in the future and beginning Plan A. Any comments are welcomed.

bump

It's a very familiar story, similar in many ways to mine, except that their contact was more limited and I did not find out for 3 years - during which the A continued. However, my wife was remorseful and confessed in remorse. There are a couple of things that strike me: one is her lack of interest in sex with you and the other her religious upbringing, which were similar to my wife (in confessing, she said she did because "God got through to her"). If the parallel holds, unmet emotional needs will be a BIG part of the answer to the "Why?" picture, but her sexual activity (not neccesarily intercourse, either), especially any with you, before marriage, will be another big part of why she crossed this boundary now. Discussing the Personal History Questionnaire found on this site was an eye-opener for us. My wife was having sex with me mostly out of "her Christian duty", which is just a good way to build up resentment and make sex emotionally unpleasant. Reading "Torn Asunder" together was a big help in piecing this together. I stil recommend SAA - Torn Asunder does not do as good a job with the "emotional needs" portion of things as SAA, and they are a critical component for almost all women, but TA gets at some important issues that SAA misses in my opinion. Good luck. There are a few other things that helped us that I have included in the link in my signature line.

<small>[ October 10, 2003, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Thanks for the reply john. Things are so hard right now. Plan A is brutal on the BS. I feel like I'm bending over backwards to keep her happy and not make her mad in any way. I know that is the Plan A way but boy does it hurt. I guess you could say we are separated right now, we don't sleep under the same roof and only see each other for a couple of hours everyother day. We barely see each other enough to make Plan A seem effective (I guess it has only been 3 days on Plan A.) She just seems so cold, distant and unresponsive when I try to meet her biggest EN, conversation. She acts "put off" when I ask about her day, the people in her life, etc.

I don't feel like I'm old enough or mature enough to handle something like this. How does this happen to someone in their late 20's? HNHN and SAA hold out so much hope and show a vision for marriage that looks so beautiful. I pray for something like that. It would be truly amazing.

I wish she could see her as I see her...precious.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't feel like I'm old enough or mature enough to handle something like this. How does this happen to someone in their late 20's? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm right there with you brother, 27 myself. But I feel God is doing a work on us. We will grow stronger through this and mature beyond our years. He will never give you something that you can't handle.

Realizing that anyone at any age at any stage in life is susceptible is key. When we think that "it could never happen to me", we are the most vulnerable. We take it easy, take things for granted and put forth less effort.

Have you read through the Plan A links that are on the page that my signature line links? I was going to say that their advice has helped Plan A be both more efffective and more tolerable, but maybe I shoudl stick with the tolerable assertion. It just sucks right now, (even if you weren't in Plan A), so hang on to God for help.

Eduard
Thanks for the encouragement. How do you handle Plan A? DDay was bad enough but the continuing trickle of evidence of the ongoing EA is a series of kicks in the stomach. It is so hollowing.

I guess I thought that once A saw the light of day (she revealed A to me) that it would promptly end. A lot of the stuff on the site says that part of the excitement is the secrecy but I can't tell with her. She says theirs no point in lying anymore, but she still spins the truth a little. Since it is ongoing, the cruelty returns over and over and over. Sometimes I shiver uncontrollably and don't know what to do. I have good friends who are keeping me afloat and out of trouble. Thank God for them.

Ed how do we keep our sanity? Thanks man

I just wanted to add that if you are going to emotionally survive the emotional rollercoaster then you will to have to emotionally detach from her. Emotional detachment(ED) will get you off the emotional rollercoaster by giving you control of your negative emotions like fear, anger and despair which can sabotage all of your well thought out and hard earned efforts to save and rebuild your marriage. ED will also make it possible for you to exercise the patience and perseverance that are necessary elements to endure Plan A. How do you emotionally detach? By conquering your fear of ending your marriage and not getting your hopes up by relying on her words alone (the old saying 'actions speak louder than words' very much applies here). What you are actually detaching from is fear, anger and despair NOT love.

One last thing, affairs are born from dishonesty (without it, they can't exist) and one way to eliminate dishonesty is for you (and her) to open up to each other. Want to know how to do that? Create an emotionally safe environment where your W can tell you what her innermost thoughts and feelings are, no matter how unpleasant they are for you without the fear of being punished by you for doing so. But you won't achieve this if you are resorting to love busters (habits that destroy romantic love: angry outbursts, selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, annoying habits, independent behavior and dishonesty) for they are the emotional toxic waste that will kill her love for you. Start by developing empathy for her, and validating her feelings (not the same as condoning the affair) so that she will start taking steps to share more and more of them with you, and will make it a lot easier for her to break contact with the OM for good.

<small>[ October 10, 2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Hey Riding, how are you doing today? Our situations are nearly the same, right down to our ages...me 27, ww 26. It sucks big time doesn't it...!?!?? Do you want to kow something else, it only gets harder to deal with as you progress thru the stages. I'm about a week into plan B, and this has been the hardest part so far. It makes finding out look like a walk in the park. I'm not saying this to discourage you, on the contrary, you need to prepare for the long haul here. This will take years, yeah that's right...YEARS, to recover from. It won't happen overnight. My W was so arrogant about the A, flaunting it in my face, blaming me, so on. Unlike you (having the benefit of the 250 miles between you and OM), I've got to deal with the son of a b*tch two doors down having an A with my wife. It is a wonder he is still alive.

Here is what I did, it seemed to at least make the last month more bearable (my D-day was on Labor Day):

1) Get some anti-depressants from your doctor. They won't numb you from the pain or make you act wierd. What they will do is level off the emotional rollercoaster effect this is going to have on you. Also, they will allow you to eat again. I lost about 30 lbs. last month. It made me literally sick to eat anything. At least now I'm able to keep one good meal a day down! Believe me, I'm not big on taking pills for anything. But I'm also not big on depression, anxiety, or reacting out of desperation either. There is no shame in ant-d's in a time of crisis like this.

2) Get some good sleeping pills. Either over the counter or perscription, as long as they help you sleep. Again, the usual disclaimer on pills...I don't like them. But, a guy needs his sleep to function properly, ya know.

3) Get some proffesional help!!!! This should be #1 on the list. Call the Harley's or Cerri ASAP!!!! They have seen these situations a thousand times and know what works. There is no gaurantee that you can save your M, but this will give it the best possible chance for recovery...in my humble opinion. I'm working with Jenn Harley-Chalmers, she is awesome. I'd highly recommend her. If not her, Cerri. I've come to value Cerri's advice like nobody I've ever meet. She's pretty cool and she makes alot of sense.

4) Sounds like you have copies of His Needs, Her Needs and Surviving An Affair. Good, read them. Read SAA a couple of times. Then read all you can about infedelity and recovery on this site. Jenn tells me that they are in the process of revising the timimng aspects of Plan A and B a little. I think the web site is a little more up to date on that. But read the book, it goes into much more detail on the finer aspects of the plans. Also, read Love Busters, it does you no good trying to make love bank deposits if you are withdrawing them just as fast...or faster!!!

5) DO NOT...repeat DO NOT: get angry with your wife, lay a guilt trip on her, pressure her in any way, follow her around the house, try to talk about the A or the M. You are only going to annoy the crap out of her and give her justification for having the A, and continueing it. There is going to be plenty of time for questions later. Remeber this will take years.

6) Take some time off work if you can. I had a really hard time trying to sit at work dealing with the everyday problems of my job. It all seemed so trite and petty, especially when my life had just been turned on end. Besides, I think most employers will be alot more understanding of your change in behavior and request for time off if they have an idea whats going on at home. It is nothing to be ashamed of. I found that when I started to open up to people, they would share similar experiences. I had no idea how many people this happens to. I think Cerri says ABOUT 80% OF ALL MARRIAGES go thru this!

7) Go for a walk, work out, find an outlet for your enegry. It will make you feel a little better and take your mind of things for a few seconds at time. Getting fresh air, for me anyway, helps a guy think more clearly. I think it is vital to the soul to get fresh air in a time of crisis. That was only part sarcasm by the way!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

The most important thing I can express to you is this. You can get thru this, regardless of how you feel right at this momnent. This is not counseling. This is a freak'n message board. You need to understand the differance. These are some really good, well intentioned people who have been there and done that when it comes to infedelity. But, with the exception of Cerri, they are not proffesionals!!! Get the pros involved, NOW! This is the palce to come to share experiences, share feelings, vent, bounce ideas of people, in general to get emotional support.

THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO GO TO PLAN STRATEGY!!!! YOU NEED A PROFFESIONAL COACH FOR THAT.

Anyway, take care, good luck, and keep us posted. Let me know if you need anything.

RJP

<small>[ October 10, 2003, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]</small>

Boy, did I screw up that last reply. I meant to say that nothing reallymakes Plan A tolerable. The links in my signature line may help you make Plan A more EFFECTIVE, which is the point. Actually, I would not worry too much about not angering your wife. Affairs are addictions. Anything that threatens an addict's fix is liikely to be met with anger. If the steps you are taking disrupt the affair, then she will get mad. This is not the same as an LB. Avoid lovebusters, yes. Don't make your wife mad...no.

I want to thank you all for the advice and sympathy, and to those of you promoting SAA and HNHN thanks it is really doing me a lot of good. Many of you have expressed how important it is to avoid LB's and show empathy and willingness to meet W's ENs but with the limited daily exposure we have(~2 h, since we stay with friends at night) it's pretty hard. I'm ending that and am going to start staying at home and try to convince her that I love her and want her to stay there also. If she doesn't want to stay with me that will be her decision. I hope she will go for it, but don't know. She is cold and distant and says one should live their life in response to your feelings, do what feels good. I know about "the fog" but this is totally out of character for her. I barely see her enough to make Plan A effective.

My love bank is pretty low also (as her must be for me) but I MUST fight for my marriage since I both love her and it is the right thing to do. If she turns away after this, then that will be her choice but I will know that I am a good man and fought for something I believe in. It's just so hard when your bank is low and W is so unresponsive. I know it will take time. Thanks for the anti-d advice they start tomorrow, and for the emotional detachment part I needed that.

I'd like more info about what "to do" during Plan A and strategies for getting more access to W. Thanks all.

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Ridingtherollercoaster ]</small>

" She is cold and distant and says one should live their life in response to your feelings, do what feels good."

She is right. You should get rid of her. In the long run you will "feel" a lot better without having to deal with someone like her.

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: yosh ]</small>

Something I needed to learn that SEEMS somewhat contrary to most of what you read on MB is that I should not look to my wife to meet my needs, I should look to God to meet my needs. If my wife is not doing her part (and God uses people to meet our needs, and has specific instructions to wives, so she is not off the hook here), God will find a different method to meet them, or give me the strength to cope while they are unmet. Also, it is not my reponsibility to do what my wife wants me to do. It is to do what God wants me to do regarding her (which I would argue includes doing a good job meeting her most important emotional needs, IF SHE WILL LET ME).

I hope it helps you take the focus off your wife and put it on God, because God is Who will help you through this. The more you give this to Him, the less you will have to carry.

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Riding,

I want to point out something to you, and add to somethings Johnh has said.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I hope she will go for it, but don't know. She is cold and distant and says one should live their life in response to your feelings, do what feels good. I know about "the fog" but this is totally out of character for her. I barely see her enough to make Plan A effective.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ask her if it felt good for you to punch her in the face, would she be able to go along with that and let you? Surely, if it felt good to you it wouldn't be against the law would it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> You are seeing the "fog" at its best. She is just justifying or at least trying to justify what she knows to be wrong.

Now to what Johnh said about allowing God to meet your needs. I think it is fair to really consider Plan A and Plan B as they are meant to be considered at least in my mind.

Harley points out that the data shows that MOST A's end. The few that do lead to marriages, then lead to a failed marriage at a very very high rate. So if this is the case why plan A/plan B??

Here is my take on it. If you have a spouse that has strayed, they may realize they have made a serious mistake, they may realize that their commitment to marriage is actually stronger than they realize. Plan A is a way to let them come back.

It shows them that the BS is willing to change, negotiate, and try to rebuild the marriage. It holds open the door and invites them back. That is why in plan A you shouldn't LB, you should set boundaries, and you put your taker in the dog house. As Cerri points out the TAker will not stay in the dog house long,and in a good marriage should be balanced with the giver. So Plan A is a short term invitation to come back.

Now as you might guess, many WS's aren't ready to see that their behavior is bad or that they have made bad choice. So this leads to plan B. Here you remove yourself as much as possible from the WS's life. This means less damage to you and your Love bank, but it is admitting that there is nothing YOU can do to end the A and bring back the WS. A good plan A before plan B plants the seeds that they could come back, but until the A is over, they won't.

Now you may wonder how this dovetails with what Johnh says. Well, what are you going to do while in Plan B? Where are you going to get the strength, the endurance, the new perspectives you will need to forgive and allow the WS back? I think Johnh's advice is an excellent place to start.

The point about plan B is that it is simply saying the A will end. It may end before or after I have run out of gas. It may NOT lead to the marriage being restored, but I will go on faith and go until I am out of gas.

That is why Harley states that one should go to plan B well before you run out of patience or love. You will need it, and plan A is only to hold the door open IF they have already seen or are about to see the error of their ways and are looking for a way home.

You need to have faith in something during these enormous trials and your faith is a very very good place to find it.

So look at these plans as based on the fact that MOST A's end. One part is short term, and used to keep the door open. Some people can hold the door longer than others, but eventually the urge to LB will get stronger. Before you LB, go to plan B, which simply says: I'll wait this out, if I can. And I will hope that when the A ends that the seeds planted by plan A will allow us to address the issues in the marriage and perhaps rebuild the marriage.

The apparently very simple strategy is remarkably effective in helping the BS deal with the A, and allowing the WS a way home.

Just something to think about as you struggle with this terrible betrayal.

God Bless,

JL

Well tonight began the "a good offense is the best defense" phase. The heat must really be on. I had previously told her I would let her tell "her family" of the affair since I didn't want to color their opinions with a biased report from me. Unfortunately, her brother (and close friend of mine before meeting her) called me and asked how things were going. I told him the story. Unfortunately, we got done talking before she talked with her folks (she did have the previous 48 h to tell them) and she came home fuming about me telling him before she could.

She told me how unfair it was and how it wasn't right and how I was so mean to her. I held firm and DID NOT LB. The SAA book is great. A week ago I would have been totally out of control and spinning around in total confusion over her outburst. But now am able to see this for what it was, defensive posturing to keep the A. She stormed out of the house and said she was leaving and would call if she wanted to talk. I know this is all fog talk and stayed super calm through the whole thing.

In the mean time, her religious family told her to reconcile and stay true to our vows. She also said that I had been ridiculously nice over the past week, and it was sickening and nicer than I had ever been to her. This means two things. The pressure inside her is growing and Plan A is beginning to work.

Thanks to all of you for your responses. I don't know about the punch in the face because it would only "feel good" to me for a short time. And while I haven't emphasized my prayers and reading of the Psalms in previous posts, I would recommend these to anyone here struggling. The Psalms are very comforting and help to put things into perspective.

Good job on the exposure!!! Sounds like you did awesopme at letting her flames roll off your back. My wife said the same thing to me about being to nice. She started to dismiss all of what I was doing because she claimed that MB was a cult. She was telling me that she wanted to know how I would deal with this if I wasn't under the influence of this cult. She actually told me once that I wasn't being directed to act and feel a certain way I would be totally OK with her wanting a D.....huh!?!?!? It's all fog talk, all of it. My wife was madder than hell at me when I exposed the A to our families. She maintained that I was just trying to cury favor with people and drag her thru the mud. No amount of explaining why I did it helped. Sounds like you did a great job. Keep up the fight.

Take care and Good Luck!