...

<small>[ February 16, 2004, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: cpx ]</small>

...wife met OM while away for work on the other side of the country. EA continued by email after she returned, because he lives on the W Coast.

Do you want to talk rights or do you want to talk ethics? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Certainly you have a right to hack into her emails. But in my little world view of things, what you do with that information is where the ethical question comes into play.

Have you confronted her?
Have you told her parents?
Have you told anyone?
What have you done to let her know you want to save the marriage?

C

I have confronted her yes, but I think she is still being dishonest.

I have not told talked to anyone about this.

clino,

I also suspect she isn't being honest. Ethics in place....do you have a right for instance to protect yourself from say STDs? Do you have a right to fight for your marriage with all of the information. I believe you do. I side with cerri on the ethics part of this. If you use the information for tearing down your wife, for revenge, for humiliation....that's where you cross the ethicall line. Your wife will be FURIOUS that you broke into her accounts....at least as long as she is willing to ignore the grave injustice she has done to you by concealing this relationship. This anger however is rather short lived because even the WS can see the logic of it once th fog lifts. What is unforgiveable....and the kind of anger that does NOT go away....is abusiveness sparked by the discovery of these things. So my caution to you.....is NOT about looking...you can't be certain of the truth without it...but being emotionally prepared to use the information you find to SAVE something instead of DESTROY something.

IMO you have a right to the information in her email if you can get to it. You also have a responsibility to yourself to know what you are up against. What kind of sh*t is he sending her way. If you can find out what she is sending his way even better but that might be more difficult. Her EA is probably fueled by phone and email and that is why you can't see it, same with my WW's EA.

I'm with the other folks, document, document then confront. She can't deny her words in print or photos. I'd hack into her account very carefully though and be very prepared for the worst because it could be there. Also, you have to consider how to use the info because once you compromise the source she could go hide the EA in places you have never imagined - new cell phone, separate credit card, new email accounts, etc. WS's can be VERY creative in meeting their addictions.

I wish you the best of luck, its a long sh*tty road ahead, but reading SAA has helped me to prepare for some of the most recent stuff, prior to that I was spinning and out of control in response to her actions.

Do I have the right to hack into her email and find out what was said between WW and OM, as well as what WW told her friends?

Clino:

First let me say I am sorry to read of your pain. Your story is almost verbatim what happened to me over the summer. D-Day was July 30. You do not have a right to spy on your wife's email - You have an OBLIGATION to your marriage to do it! In my case the installation of spy software was the ONLY thing that forced my wife to admit to the seriousness of the EA she was having and the horrific nature of the things she was saying. If you do not have logs ready to present to her be ready for a very long denial process that will be very difficult. In addition, from what I have read here, elsewhere & can personally attest to, your wife WILL make an additional attempt to conatct the OM after telling you it's over. If you have more than one computer in the house make sure you cover all the bases. Don't think just because you have one email account that you are OK. My "computer illiterate" wife figured out how to create and manage multiple Hotmail accounts, use a scanner and attach the image to an email and even got a little savvy about covering her tracks in Internet Explorer once she got to the ugly stuff (but before D-Day). You are not invading her privacy, she is invading and betraying yours by discussing the private matters of your marriage with a stranger.
JMHO

Up until last night wife was trying to tell me she didn't intend to do anything wrong and didn't realize she was. Told me she was not in love with OM, just really good friends despite everything that has happened.

Anyway I did it. Looked at all the email.

So yes, my wife is in love with OM. Yes, she knew the all the way through the EA that she was falling in love with OM, compared me to him, made me look awful to him, fantasized about leaving me for him, and went on with EA. She completely shut me out and wouldn't tell me the truth - even though I KNEW and it was eating me up inside.

EA appears to be over as of last Tues or Wed.

Now I don't know what to do. Wife is out of town and will probably call me when I get home from work. I know I am just going to start crying when I head her voice. We've been together forever and now my soul is completely torn to shreds. I don't even know who this woman is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by clinopyroxene:
<strong>Up until last night wife was trying to tell me she didn't intend to do anything wrong and didn't realize she was. Told me she was not in love with OM, just really good friends despite everything that has happened.

Anyway I did it. Looked at all the email.

So yes, my wife is in love with OM. Yes, she knew the all the way through the EA that she was falling in love with OM, compared me to him, made me look awful to him, fantasized about leaving me for him, and went on with EA. She completely shut me out and wouldn't tell me the truth - even though I KNEW and it was eating me up inside.

EA appears to be over as of last Tues or Wed.

Now I don't know what to do. Wife is out of town and will probably call me when I get home from work. I know I am just going to start crying when I head her voice. We've been together forever and now my soul is completely torn to shreds. I don't even know who this woman is.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Clino:

WAIT!!!
Don't make the same mistakes I did! Do NOT...repeat..DO NOT break down in front of her. Cry alone. This was a lesson I had to learn the hard way. If you are to confront your wife and get this out in the open she must see a stong willed man and not a broken human being (as I vividly remember being myself). How long will she be out of town? Can you hold off until she returns? Spend this time wisely thinking about why your marriage is worth saving and get the tracking software on the home computer. If you want to chat more let me know. I am 2 1/2 months ahead of your exact situation and can tell you IT IS NOT OVER! All is not lost even though I know you cant believe that right now.
Keep your head up!

Clino

JP offers good advice. I still remember exactly how I felt when I listened to 5 voice mail messages from OW to my H. I can probably still repeat, word-for-word, the contents of those voice mail messages. So, I know how you feel when you read the emails.

I was hysterical! I cried, yelled, screamed, etc. I should have taken some time to get myself under control. If I could have, I would have been able to gather more information and possibly not gone through through the whole summer dragging A information piece by piece from my H.

Good luck. I know how much it hurts.

sss

CP:

Do yourself a big favor and give yourself a big leg up by calling the Marriage Builders appointment number and set up a phone-in counseling appointment ASAP. Either that, or talk 2 cerri, who is a professional coach trained in MB methods. She's posted 2 you here and has her contact info in her sig line.

What you have told us is not "new." Many of us learned of our spouse's A in the same fashion. I certainly did. You'll go through all kinds of emotions as a result of what your are reading and how you got access 2 it. This is normal, though it certainly isn't all that comforting 2 hear that. For a while, you will probably need 2 keep your "method" secret, I did, but even2ally you will get 2 a point in your personal recovery where you won't need 2 snoop anymore 2 know whether something inappropriate is going on or not.

Because you're dealing with secrecy versus privacy, I will quote definitions of secrecy, privacy, truth, and honesty that were very helpful 2 me. My W, like many WSs, tried 2 protect her "secrecy" by calling it "privacy." They're not the same thing by any means, but discovering my W's A was the only way I was ever given the incentive 2 understand the distinction:

"The Difference Between Secret And Private

Private matters are those traits, truths, beliefs, and ideas about ourselves that we keep to ourselves. They might include our fantasies and daydreams, feelings about the way the world works, and spiritual beliefs. Private matters, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, give another person some insight into the revealer.

Secrets, on the other hand, consist of information that has potentially negative impact on someone else-emotionally, physically, or financially. Secrets, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, cause great chaos or harm to the secret-keeper and those around him or her.

Private: I believe in reincarnation.

Secret: I have a wife and a mistress and neither knows about the other.

Private: I got terrible grades in high school.

Secret: I forged my medical degree.

The Difference Between Truth and Honesty

Truth is empirical, demonstrable fact. Your bank balance, today’s date, whether or not you’re married.

Honesty is about feelings. If you’re honest, you are open and clear about how you feel. You can be truthful without being honest and you can be honest without being truthful (the latter a little more difficult). The best relationships, stating the painfully obvious, are both truthful and honest. Trust is built on both truth and honesty, tempered by the proof of predictability and reliability."

-2long

Clino,

Get copies of the emails and put them somewhere. There will come a time when your W may need to face the black and white truth. At some point in the future a ceremonial burning will do wonders for your soul.

Do not talk to her about what you have found while she is gone. If you feel like crying do so, but don't try to get anything constructive done, like explaining why you are crying beyond "I feel so down right now."

I like the advice everyone has given you, but I think you need to consider doing what 2long said. Get counseling and develop a PLAN for addressing this. The Harley's are exceptional at this, and I know Cerri is trained in their methods and I have seen her work on this site, so she is also very good.

You know the truth now, or at least the "truth" as it existed a few weeks ago. That "truth" will change with time, and the "truth" is that before this is all over you may well compare very favorably to any man your W has ever met. It will take time, but ask 2Long. He has managed that miracle. So has Cerri.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

....

<small>[ February 16, 2004, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: cpx ]</small>

cp:

Like I suggested before, check out cerri's sig line. How 2 contact her is there. Or, go 2 the marraigebuilders home page and look up the number 2 schedule a phone counseling session with either Steve or Jen.

Any of these 3 choices would be excellent. I called Steve once, and really liked the phone in format. They'll talk 2 you alone, your W alone, or both of you 2gether, depending on the best plan at the moment. This differs from most marriage counselors' preference 2 talk 2 one or the other of you, or both of you, but not combinations of that. I couldn't even see our MC alone when my W got stuck in traffic last year! Wasted my time getting 2 Kaiser.

The Harleys are more "expensive" than most, but more efficient as well. It will likely take far fewer sessions 2 restore your M than with "just any counselor" out there. And counseling is usually a lot cheaper than divorce.

Please take care, and continue 2 be as loving as you can when you do talk 2 your W.

best,
-2long

c-

Before you go tomorrow, please read and print a copy of the article on the MB site: "How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor."

You want to make sure the psychiatrist or counselor you see is pro-marriage. I have read too many horror stories on this board where, after one appointment, the BS is told that the best thing for him/her is to divorce. You do not want that kind of counselor.

You should be interviewing this counselor in your first visit: what are his attitudes toward divorce? Infidelity? You do not want someone that will encourage you: "find your own way," "if it doesn't feel good, don't do it," etc. You want someone who will give you the skills and coping strategies to make your marriage survive and thrive.

Good luck. We are here for you!

*S*

FYI:How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor

Read Hazardous Counseling too.

You don't need just any counselor, you need a good one. Individual counselors are usually not trained to save marriages. Most marriage couselors are not either, unfortuately. According to a Consumer Reports survey, 84% of them were ineffective or harmful, according to to their clients. Cerri and the Harley's are good. If you want to meet with someone in person, then use the questions suggested in the above links, and be prepared to call 10 before finding a good one.

<small>[ October 14, 2003, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

CPX,

Too late for this advice, but I was going to say prepare yourself for the worst when checking her email. Sometimes it makes the situation worse for yourself. I know in my case there were things in there that have been difficult to deal with.

-Here is something a little different

If you know your WW is continuing her A it might not be to your benefit to continue reading her emails. It takes away a huge amount of Love Units from you and may make recovery tough in the end.