Well here I am MONTHS later finally teling my thing. I have been lurking around MB for at least 6mo. . I never said anything...out of my own guilt. I was married for about 7 yrs. (with children)and finally came to the conclusion that I wanted a separation..at least. I had been discontent with my marriage for wuite some time..and tried OVER and OVER to talk to my hub..but to no avail. We had recently moved to another state and I was looking for new friends and workout partners on the internet. I ended up in a chat room...and finally after alot of encouragement from outside people I told my husband I was seriously considering a separation. Stupid..YEs..but true. He wasn't thrilled with that, but I assured him that I was only going to TALK to people while we were "separated" that I would never cross the line of physical contact, I would never even go as far as kissing someone. That I just needed some time away to feel the outside world.....I meant what I said and he reluctantly agreed. ............... to be continued...

New info on last post....

<small>[ October 25, 2003, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: SheWill ]</small>

Well...believe me I GOT MINE!!!!

He turned a new leaf....In one week he was making me fancy dinners...professing his love to me..promising change. I was like ...hold up!! This is going way too fast! I sid..I'm coming around but I need time to feel content. met one man for an early eavening drink.. whom I had NO INTEREST in.......but my hubby paid the price for... then he came upon an e-mail from a courter.Oh ****----all hell broke loose!!

I was flattered..but believed him (my hub) when he said he wanted me back. I basically renewd my vows and was giving this marriage it's last chance. I was giving it my all. We were working the E.N. questionaires. We hired a babysitter several times a week. I was ready to be forgiven and forgive... Then he started acting WEIRD!@!!!
So I started checking his phone and e-mailsonly to find out he had been talking,lunching, KISSING, a girl at work.......

forgive my mis-spelling..anyway....I was TOTALLY behaving ang giving it my all. Sexually going overboard... everyday I thought of him...all under the pretense of honestly and recovery only to find out ther were more girls. ... We were at he mall shopping for a new outfit for me before a party together and another girl calls his cell phone... i was DEVESTATED....

Everyone thinks I'm crazy by now.....but seriously.... I had confronted this fat,herpes infested woman, and him..and also confessed my wrongs. i was ready to move on....aside from the weekly pummeling of new information of his "infidelities" I thought..Oh enough NOW!!! I'm sorry!

To try and wrap up this long, confusing story... I thought I wanted to leave.... then we he (a) started to make changes for the better and (b) actually cheated on me I realized I wanted to be in the marriage. He kicked me when I was down and now I 'm more confused than ever. I really need advice..because I can't get over the lying and cheating ..It seems to be holding me back from moving on. H wants to stay together... I don't really think he is cheating anymore, he gave me access to his cell phone and he's been off work for 5 months now..so he's almost always home. I'm not really angry that he did what he did..It's that he doesn't seem to have remorse or want to "work through things.. he wants me to basically shut up and forget about it ...even though I'm still hurting.
WHAT SHOULD I DO?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"I'm not really angry that he did what he did..It's that he doesn't seem to have remorse or want to "work through things.. he wants me to basically shut up and forget about it ...even though I'm still hurting.

WHAT SHOULD I DO?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does he feel shame for what he did? If so, then his lack of remorse may be just that, shame. Have you asked him?

I've been anxious to hear your response on this..coffee man. I will ask him if he is ashamed.
He has apologized in a very short letter...but it doesn't feel like enough.. There wasn't much to it. I on the other hand have cried zillions of tears in front of him professing my remorse, apologies, and basically, my soul, for ever hurting him by ever even considering anyone else. I'm not even the one who acted on it!!! I guess I am bitter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SheWill:
<strong>He has apologized in a very short letter...but it doesn't feel like enough.. There wasn't much to it. I on the other hand have cried zillions of tears in front of him professing my remorse, apologies, and basically, my soul, for ever hurting him by ever even considering anyone else. I'm not even the one who acted on it!!!</strong>]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SW keep in mind that not everybody expresses their feelings the same way. Some (like yourself) are more empathic and demonstrative of their feelings than others (like your H).

Affairs are born from dishonesty (without it, they can't exist) and one way to eliminate dishonesty is for you and your H to totally open and honest with each other. Want to know how to do that? By creating an emotionally safe environment where BOTH of you can tell each others what your innermost thoughts and feelings are (true intimacy), no matter how unpleasant they may be, without the fear of being punished for doing so. But the two of you won't achieve this if you are resorting to love busters (habits that destroy romantic love: angry outbursts, selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, annoying habits, independent behavior and dishonesty) for they are the emotional toxic waste that will kill the love you have for one another. Once these are eliminated then true intimacy has a chance to finally take hold in your marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I guess I am bitter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know you personally but if you can have it in your heart to forgive your H for having an affair, then I doubt that you are a bitter person at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You're right right right..
We don't have true intimacy, and there are love busters flying around here like mad!!

Bumping this topic..hoping for more feedback. THanks cofeeman for your words. H just says he doesn't know what to say to me..he thought we wer OVER this...he doesn't want to regurgitate my words..wants to actually feel something rather than put BS down on paper.. I guess he JUST DOESN'T feel sorry. Maybe I should just leave.

Dear She Will,

I believe you mentioned 4 children, is my memory correct?

What can you do to assist/encourage your husband to look for work? What type of work is he able to do? What types of job is he willing to work at? What wages does ne need?

Mr. Coffee mentioned creating an atmoshpere in which honesty can flourish. I am not a total adherent or advocate of Radical Honesty, RH, but I try for the ideals. The concept of the atmosphere for honesty to occur, is something I have not thought out completely. It seems that I as a spouse, have two duties in RH. First, to practice honesty. For me, that means avoiding doing anything that I am tempted to keep secret. The second part of RH is to create a loving atmosphere in which my spouse feels comfortable to confess transgressions. Perhaps it is also to stimulate avoiding doing things intended to be kept secret.

How are you doing with the atmosphere in the home? It seems that if you are threatening to separate, that you are creating a false atmosphere of an unfair advantage in the marriage. The threat produced improved behavior, to your face, but prompted a back-up plan, in case you left. You may have been expressing your honest feelings, which is suposedly OK in RH, but you now see the weird impact it created. Less honesty, and more consideration, might have avoided the sequence.

My son-in law was short of work, and I called some places out of the Yellow Pages, and let him know who was taking applications. Can you make phone calls for your husband? Can you fax out his resume? Can you spruce up his resume? Can you get some crtificates together for attrachments? Can you get some letters of reference for him to attach?

What else can you do to encourage him to get a job? What rewards do you have for H when he gets home from a job interview, or filling out an application? What arrangements do you have for faxing his resume? What internet services do you think are helpful? Monster.com? Any street vending opportunities? Are there any Christmas jobs he could appply for? Any volunteer jobs that he can work now, that might turn into paying jobs sooner than later?

My basic suggestion is taht you have enough going onin the presnet, that you don't really need to think about the past. The future will be better, if you focus on your opportunities here and now. Perhaps easier said than done. Perhpas I can better follow that advice mself, also.

Blessings,

Quipper

<small>[ October 19, 2003, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Thank you again Quipper.

I do fax his resumes out for him weekly. I have also helped network and get the word out that he is looking for work. He is doing some work now...so that is improving. It is mostly history that interferes here.
More later..I'm tired. BUt Thanks!!

His pornography use seems to have no rhyme or reason. It was at it's worse earlier in our marriage..not right now when he has been off of work. It was horendous when he was working ful time or even working two jobs...
Good conclusio Quip, but I don't think accurate in this situation. He hasn't been doing it much lately that I can tell..... It just a sqad memory ....

Dear She Will,

Glad to hear that the actual problem is in the past. if you keep your list of current goals freshily in mind, perhaps the triggers will have less intensity for you.

I read my wife 6 pages out of Patterson, 1987, Living with Adolecents. That part talked about keeping current tracking records of youngsters target behaviors. My son had kept the living room picked up for a week, but is slipping. So my comment was, "Thanks for keeping the living room better picked up." I have seen impprovmetn recently. I didn't mention, (Excet for the last three days)

I asked for my wife's assessment of the living room, and we agree to mark down on my pocket spiral calender, Shirt and Frisbees, 11 PM.

So we came up with a tracking system. Next chapter is on encouaraging comments.

Blessings,

Quipper

Hello,

I might have to get that book...dealing with a 13 yr old hormonal young lady here can be challenging. I am always looking for ways to grow and improve my relationship with my kids. I believe what we do affects them forever. Positives for their self-Esteem are good.

what you said about the problem being in the past... I just don't know if that is true. As far as the pornography is concerned..it's onky a small part of our problems. I still don't feel my needs are being met...I feel very vulnerable to an affair. I am aware of that and fighting those urges. I'm still so bitter about his many lies to me, I'm angry at him most days. I guess selfishly I want him to pay dearly and beg me to stay. I know that's not right either. So many things are screwy. I gave him back my wedding rings months ago and told him that they were his until he was really ready to be in this marriage. ABasically I wanted another proposal after the cheating and lying. I believed that we would work the marriage builders program and fall in love again..but my rings, and his are still gone. I have tried to improve myself to be a better spouse.to him and meet his needs but I feel it goes unreciprocated more than not.
I guess keeping my eye on the prize...A HAPPY MARIAGE.. sounds like a way to help me avoid letting triggers get the best of me. Sometimes I think the phrase HAPPY MARRIAGE is an oxymoron.

I guess I don't actually know if my goal is to STAY married. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

The roller coaster dips again? Feeling a bit confused about what to do.
My hub and I are in recovery I believe. On the way I guess. We are both working on meeting each others needs and I'm trying to let go of this whole "BE SORRY" thing.
He's been out of work for over four months so I certainly don't want him to turn down work....He is starting and Independent Contractor business and signed a contract with his old employer. This is where the OW worked also. She was let go at the same time he was ( the company filed for bancruptcy) Well within the POJA I was Ok with it because SHE no longer worked there and he was only doing a really short stint there. Now they want him there pretty much everyday and she is hired back on as a consultant.
He assures me that I have nothing to worry about, but it feels so wrong in my gut. LB for him is me not supporting his work, but how can I if thoughts of her and him are always lingering..

Do I say NO- It's me or the job...
or do I give him a LONG Olive branch.????

BTW I do not contribute a significant amount to the $$ I only make about 325 a week from home. We have small kids.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
[QB] [QUOTE]"I'm not really angry that he did what he did..It's that he doesn't seem to have remorse or want to "work through things.. he wants me to basically shut up and forget about it ...even though I'm still hurting.

[QUOTE] [B]Does he feel shame for what he did? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">]

I talked to him about this a little..he says he's embarassed and was somewhat motivated by retaliation. I was relieved to hear that.

Something that helped me recently is when I sent FWH here to read a post.

Recovery "to do " list

He really had NO idea I was feeling this way an it opened his eyes a bit.