Last week, I called Dr. H's radio show. I spoke with him and told him that the OW contacted my H after a 9 month absence. My H responded to her and I caught him. Then, we both wrote OW, the "No Contact" letter.<P>Anyway, Dr. H. mentioned "Once a spouse becomes a Lover with someone outside of their marriage, it is easy for them to become a Lover again with that OP (regardless if they are working on their marriage). That is why No Contact is imperative...so that there is no chance of the OP becoming a Lover to our spouse again."<P>My H & I are 10 months in recovery. I couldn't even believe that my H would e-mail that OW after all the hard work, pain & suffering we went through to save our marriage.<P>Any opinions and thoughts on our Spouses EASILY becoming Lovers again...regardless if you & your spouse want your marriage to work?

I don't think that the man I am now in love with ever really was trying, but I think he was. We did not see each other for a year and a half. But I can tell you that even one contact by either of us would have blown everything out of the water. The only reason we were able to stay apart and live separate lives after we ended our <BR>EMR is that there was no contact. I don't know if I could have handled contact. I don't know if he could have handled contact. But we did the right thing and had no contact because we both agreed to it. If both don't agree to it and one does contact like the OW in your case, that can lead to all the feelings over again. <P>Del

I should have said I don't know if he was trying but I think he was! I really do think he was because he never contacted me and he had no way of knowing what I was doing with my life. I told him I was going on with my life and he should go one with is.<P>Del

No trust-<BR>Hi, forgive me, but I am not entirely familiar with your story. I will tell you what is going on with our situation and in my mind, and maybe that will help you.<P>We are 10 months into recovery, and used Steve Harley for counseling in the beginning. My H works with the OW and sees her daily. This is INCREDIBLY hard for me to handle. Their affair was about four or five months long, and if you read "Surviving an Affair" it fell right in the middle of the continium, between "soul-mates" and one night stands. Yes, he said he loved her, yes, he began divorce proceedings, and yes...he moved out of the house. <P>So, where we atand is that we have made a recommittment to our marriage, and really to ourselves. We saw her as a symptom, not the problem. I think the biggest challenge we have for ourselves is to stay strong a s acouple, becaseu if not then either of us is vunerable for an affair.<P>Try to focus on your progress as a couple, and express your concern to your H. Let him know just how you feel about it. IMO, if a couple is stong then they can conquer anything. Bu and affair is an addiction, and like any addiction, it can be retriggered.<BR>Good luck!<P>------------------<BR>You will be stronger because of this.<P>

Hi No Trust:<P>I have never talked with Dr. H. but I believe what he said is probably true. My H told me his OW, Mia broke off with him. She even wrote me via this forum and appologized for her affair with him. So they did not "see" each other (in the affair sense) for months while H and I tried to figure out how to work on our marriage. H and I have since made a mutual decision to divorce. Last week I found out that he was again seeing Mia (the OW) and he is "very much in love" with her. They appear to be happy. She dumped him, waited for him to "decide" what he wanted, waited for us to file for divorce, waited for my H to physically move out, and then got back together with him. So I guess, Dr. Harley was right when he said once they become lovers it's easier to go back to something familiar.

My EW works with om and when we tried to reconcile she said they would speak only professionally. Soon she started telling me about om's w and I knew then that they were speaking more than professionally. <P>When she gave up on the reconcilation, after 1 week, she said she let om back into her life when she went to appologize(?) to him.<P>She also said thet she owuld not let om back into the apartment or sleep with him unless he produced divorce papers. Two weeks later, he was all moved back in.<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger<BR>

No contact is imperative!! My h broke things off with the last slut, then saw her again a month later. He says he has no idea what happened, but they had sex again. <BR>I am definitely an advocate of no more contact!!

Isn't that the thing of it? It IS so familiar...therefore, easier.<P>No contact is the only way, IMHO.<P>Laura<BR>

I strongly urge the no contact. But, the betrayer has to go through withdrawal inorder to be able to proceed in working on the marriage. Dr. Harley does have a section on withdrawal right here in this web site. Dr. H also says that any contact is like heading back to zero. But, I truely believe that if the other person has gone through withdrawal and has been working on their marriage- the contact won't matter as much as if they hadn't gone through withdrawal.<P>Dr. H's Plan A helps with the withdrawal period. But the book After the Affair does a good job of discussing all the reason's behind an affair and disputing them. It makes sense for both the betrayer and the betrayed. I suggest both of you reading it.<P>Have you ever heard of the dating time line? It is in the book by Judith Sills= A Fine Romance under the section Romantic Love. Basically it discusses that a chemical exchange starts in the beginning of a relationship. That's what gives people the "hots" for one another....And, when Mature Love starts (public commitment, conflict, space & boundaries) that the chemical exchange starts to subside. By 2 1/2 to 3 years this chemical exchange is virtually non-existent. Do most married couples have sex as often as when they first met/married? That's why. It's not that you don't love your spouse...it just means you have passed onto a mature form of love.<BR>(Now that's a pretty condensed form of the time line...but I hope you get my picture)<P>Dr. H also discusses that most affairs end and they two people do not stay together. The affair is a fantasy. I just keep believing that both person's in the affair are role playing, but once reality hits- there would be nothing left. They'd find out that the other person does do things that they don't like...just like their spouse. <P>The greatest reward for you and your husband are showing each other affection, understanding, and admiration for all the hard work you have been doing. Just don't let your self back into distorted thinking! <BR>

I think for those of us whose spouses work with the OP, the liklihood of landing in limbo where they can't quite give up the OP and still want the marriage, that continuing contact is a huge contribution to the problem.<P>My H usually only sees the OW one weekend a month. He also goes deeper into depression that weekend and doubts that our marriage will work. And has in fact, moved out the following week 4 of the 6 times, the other 2 times were right before the weekend--gee you don't suppose he did it so he could tell her we were separated again? Ugh.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)<P><BR>

NoTrust, I'm sorry for the pain and maybe I can help with the other side of this. I've had no-contact for 4 months. My wife and I have seen the OW a few times in passing but she's made no overt attempt to communicate with me. My wife and have been in counseling for 4 months and we just spend a great weekend together celebrating our 16th universe. But, I can tell you that this thing still haunts me and I realize that everyday I could stumble right back into this whole thing. Why? I don't think my wife and probably you really can understand the intensity of an emotional affair. It's the most addictive thing I've ever experienced. I felt every emotion possible to the uttermost extremes. It is the closest thing to complete insanity I've ever experienced. Don't forget that this thing was intense and very, very addictive for him and it's just plain hard to kick. 2nd, there's probably still not enough, if ever, negative love units against the OW. Let's just face it! If he's like me he never lived with the OW and only has this mental image of her and it's certainly not based on reality. It's hard to fight against an imaginary woman! I've thought long and hard about what I'll do if the OW ever tries to contact me again. I want to say emphatically that I'll turn away but I know that there's always a good chance, given the facts, that I could make the wrong choice again and we'll have to go through all of this again. God Bless<P>

<BR>Yes....this scare me too.....all they need is a little touch, even a phone call and it starts all over again....I know my husband still talks to her.....because he wants to.....even after he swears to me its over.....I know in my heart....he lies to me...and....she is a manipulator....who enjoys doing what she is doing...she is almost divorced with no kids....and lots of time on her hands. He is a hairstylist, he has been doing her hair for 12 years (but the affir is of 2 years) I know he is still doing her hair secretly even If I told him I don' t want her in our shop.....contact may continue for ever because he cuts her mothers hair and her sister and he refuses to tell them to go somewhere else....says the shop is a public place....I can't continue accusing him and love bust.....he will run back to her.....moved 12 minutes by car from my house....the town next door....to be more accessible to my husband.....the tramp is bad news....no one likes her.....except for my husband....basically, I am just living day by day but a PI is still in the future......if he is continuing......I am out of there.....I promised him this.....

NoTrust, I'm sorry for the pain and maybe I can help with the other side of this. I've had no-contact for 4 months. My wife and I have seen the OW a few times in passing but she's made no overt attempt to communicate with me. My wife and have been in counseling for 4 months and we just spend a great weekend together celebrating our 16th anniversary. But, I can tell you that this thing still haunts me and I realize that everyday I could stumble right back into this whole thing. Why? I don't think my wife and probably you really can understand the intensity of an emotional affair. It's the most addictive thing I've ever experienced. I felt every emotion possible to the uttermost extremes. It is the closest thing to complete insanity I've ever experienced. Don't forget that this thing was intense and very, very addictive for him and it's just plain hard to kick. 2nd, there's probably still not enough, if ever, negative love units against the OW. Let's just face it! If he's like me he never lived with the OW and only has this mental image of her and it's certainly not based on reality. It's hard to fight against an imaginary woman! I've thought long and hard about what I'll do if the OW ever tries to contact me again. I want to say emphatically that I'll turn away but I know that there's always a good chance, given the facts, that I could make the wrong choice again and we'll have to go through all of this again. God Bless<P>

Hi All....Thanks for your replies. From the responses I am getting, it sure sounds like what Dr. H says is true. It scares me.<P>Tired Lady...I'm sorry that you & your H weren't able to work it out. Best of luck to you and god bless.<P>Sad2: Thanks for your ideas. I don't have that book, "After the Affair," but I think I should get it. It will help me to understand things better.<P>The problem is, is that my H said that he didn't have withdrawal from this OW...and that she didn't mean anything to him... When he confessed his affair, he even said that she has nothing over me. That I am a better person all-around compared to her and that she is nothing.<P>He was drinking heavily at the time, and said that if he were sober...he wouldn't even have gone to her. He also said that if he were a single guy, he wouldn't even date her. He said that she just accepted his drinking (where I didn't). She reminded him more of a man than a woman....has had a hard life, battered wife, etc. etc. etc. He felt sorry for her.<P>But I just don't understand.....why oh why....would he respond to her e-mail, 9 months later?? He quit drinking and can't give me the excuse that he was drinking. I'm just so confused about this. His answer to me is, "He doesn't understand it either because it was so stupid."<P>It makes me feel like he doesn't have any guilt for what he did to me/us. He doesn't see her as a manipulator and a husband collector.<P>He didn't take my feelings into consideration and didn't give a rat's a$$ if he jeapordized our marriage with this e-mail. Remember, I wasn't supposed to find out about the e-mail because it was done secretly.<P>I feel like a sap and a chump all over again!

No Trust<BR>I don't think I ever told you the full story of my H's contact with OW this summer. I'm telling you now to give you some hope. Please forgive me if I ramble.<BR>As you know, this weekend was the first anniversary of discovery for me. H had a seven year "friendship with the OW. Most of it secret as he knew how I felt about her. The fullblown affair started in oct/Nov '98.<BR>He continued the affair until March. There was an occasional brief contact til the end of April.<BR>In the end of July, the bimbo called H because she "needed" someone to fix her truck.(She's very needy). H fell for it. He never told me about the call. Arranged to have her truck fixed by a friend. of course she "needed" H to be there because she was "uncomfortable" around this guy who she had only met once. H fell for it again. This has always been her game. The needy little bimbo.<BR>Well H never told me a thing. When he left that saturday my sixth sense kicked in. I checked his voice mail. There was a message from the friend that the bimbo was at his place so she wouldn't be meeting H at the prearranged spot. I phoned H's cell - confronted him asking if he was with her - lies. He called back. More lies. he came home. More lies. Finally I repeated the message word for word. No getting out of it.<BR>there's the long drawn out part.<BR>The point of this story is that I don't believe there has been contact since. He tried to call her a couple of times in front of me to tell her no more contact. She did not answer the phone and did not respond to his messages (as far as I know).<BR>After the dust settled, I asked him just exactly what he got out of the incident. He told me that it proved to him he had absolutley no feelings left for her. He said the contact was cold and uncomfortable. maybe it was a good thing it happened because the fantasy was smashed? that's the persopective I'm trying to see it with anyway.<BR>sorry to ramble on so. Just wanted to let you know every situation is different and there may be general guidleines but there are also miracles. <BR>

Just remember you cannot control the OW. I've read from this forum that most OP's do the 6 month check up. <P>You're h does feel like a chump too- I'm sure. Now you have proof to him that he is not through the withdrawal period. They (betrayors) always tell themselves white lies. <P>Make sure your H knows the rules of Plan A. Discuss with your H your needs...you want to know when the OW calls and what the reason is. Then the two of you can decide how to handle it together- if he wants to stay in the marriage he cannot brush it off as a floocky thing.<P>Read the book...it will give you pointers on how to build trust and intimacy again. <P>And, read something fun...I needed balance.

WS: I remember your story from the Summer now. I can imagine what you must have been feeling during that time. Too bad your H had to do it the hard way...see her & find out, after all, that he didn't care for her. But, I guess, on the positive side...you do know that he doesn't care about her. It's just so hard for me to accept why spouse's get sucked into OP's manipulative plans at contact. My H sure was a SUCKER for this. Although we told her to get lost (with that No Contact letter), I still fear she will somehow rear her ugly head again, sometime in the near future. I suppose I'll have to not think about this, unless it actually does happen.<P>Sad2: You are right. Thanks for reminding me that I don't have control over what the OW does. There was no way in predicting that this OW would attempt contact after 9 months. I guess you can say she was doing her "9-month check-up." Only good thing about it is that I feared she may be pregnant. I guess, now we know that she isn't. I asked my H to tell me if there is any further contact. I just pray he will be honest and let me know.

Good question! I've wondered that myself. I'm surmising here because I've not had the experience (yet) of later contact with OW. Maybe it's so easy upon resumed contact to rekindle positive feelings or dormant fantasies left over from the affair if the affair was interrupted before emotions and passion have a chance to disintegrate into apathy, atrophy, or raw reality. If the affair was extremely addictive, as my EA seems to have been, any live embers of affection truly threaten to burst back into flame if fanned again by reacquaintance. At this point for me, 1+ month into "no contact", it would be extremely hard for me to resist - especially if the marriage is still on shaky ground and wounds are still raw. This from one still trying to escape.<BR>Pilgrim