I found the MB website and this board approx 3 weeks ago. This was about 4 weeks after DDay, and I feel as if I have made some early mistakes now that I know what I know from MB. I hope I can recover from them.

I have posted my story in another thread, so forgive any redundancy, but I feel it is important to give as much detail to be clear.

Around the beginning of the year, I began to notice changes in our marriage. Lack of conversation (other than daily logistics), minimal sex, and a change in her attitude towards me. She was mean, said nasty things, and treated me like an idiot. I chalked it up to work-kid stress. She also started to travel more, which at first I thought nothing of, but became more suspicious as the trips became more frequent.

At the same time, I was going through a tough time at work, and brought it home with me, which I now know was wrong and took away from my attention to her EN. I changed jobs in March, and work/life began to improve, but the damage was done.

I pay the bills in our family, and one day had to look up her cell phone account on-line. I discovered a large number of calls to 2 numbers (OM office and cell).

The deeper I dug, the more I found out and eventually figured out who it was when I called the number on her phone and heard the OM answer in a way that convinced me there was an A. I was in shock, and didn't know how, when, or if to confront her with it. It ate away at me, and I felt awful, even guilty that I had checked up on her.

It intensified when she found out that I had seen the bills. I questioned her directly if she was having an A with this person, and she denied it, accusing me of invading her privacy. I felt horribly guilty, but knew deep down that something was going on.

I continued to ask her, but was met with anger and accusations. DDay was 9-2-03 (day after my BDay). OMW was actually the catalyst to make my W confess, as OMW had found out somehow and was calling our house night and day, leaving nasty messages (which my W intercepted and erased) and using vulgar language with my oldest son (6) when he answered with my W on the other line.

OMW was threatening to tell both of their bosses if I was not told of the A. It was only under these circumstances that she confessed to having an EA and PA for more than a year. I still don't believe she gave me all the details, and she continues to downplay the intensity of the A.

My W then convinced me to contact OMW and scream at her and threaten her, telling her to never call again. I wish I had discovered MB earlier, as I think I have made some mistakes in handling the whole situation.

My W insists that she never would have confessed the A if OMW didn't find out, and that it was "evolving" back into a friendship.

The stuff that hurts me the most is associating the dates and times that I was doing "normal" things in life, never once thinking anything was wrong, trusting her 100% and now realizing that she was calling him morning, noon,and night.

She would call him during the week when I was sleeping, Saturday nights after we would return from going out, Father's Day morning when I was out getting donuts with the kids (this one really hits hard), 4th of July first thing in the morning, etc.

We were on a company award trip (end of June) that she won. We didn't even sleep in the same bed, and had "sex" 1x. I would wake up and she would be gone. I found out now that she was sneaking out to be with him. She insists that it was to talk about "logisitcs" of the trip and how they could keep their secret, but I can't help but believe that they were passionate (they "ran" on isolated trails). I actually bumped into him (their room was right next to ours) when he was returning from being with her one of the mornings. How infuriating! What a fool I was!

I still don't believe she told me all the details, the whole truth. Now she just wants to get back to normal, says that she loves me and made a mistake,and wants to keep the marriage for the kids and me. Anytime I try to talk about it, she ends up getting extremely defensive, turning discussion into argument, and threatens me with D.

I am in therapy (I wouldn't even call it MC) to control my emotions and to talk to someone. I have made much progress in controling LB's, especially AO's. The only other person who knows is her brother, who she put up to talk to the OMW to see if he could convice her that it was me (didn't work).

She refuses to go to MC, saying that it is not how she deals with things, and that it would only eventually lead to divorce.

I love her in spite of all these evil things and want my family back. My plan for right now is to be as calm as possible, try to have some semblence of a normal life (focus on the kids and work and lighter conversation with her) and give her some time as I think she is still in withdrawal.

However, I want to make sure that there has been NC and have asked her for proof so that I can rebuild my trust and we can move through Plan A to Recovery. She has not provided any proof at this point, and gets angry at any of my suggested ways of providing this proof.

Is it too late for Plan A? Have I made too many mistakes at this point? How can I discuss the A and trust issues with her, when every time I bring it up, I feel I am a huge LB?

Thanks everyone for your support.
WIO

Hello,

I am sorry for your pain but it seems to me that you have not made many mistakes at all. The attitude and behavior of your wife toward you was the ultimate in humiliating and disrespecting you.
Her seeming lack of remorse and her cavalier attitude toward the affair is disturbing. The fact that she told you she never would have told you if she was not forced and that this affair is evolving into a friendship is very disturbing.
She threatens to divorce you because you wish to discuss this?

My friend you are in denial. I would suggest that you contact an attorney at least for some legal options. Your wife must have NO CONTACT with the OM whatsoever and she should provide you with proof when asked. In addition, marriage counseling is essential and she should answer all questions in a way to begin recovery.

The bottom line is that she seems to have absolutely no respect for (leaving your hotel room for him) you and she acts like she is doing you favor by staying with you. There seems to have been no consequences to her actions at all.
She will no longer respect you or your marriage until you respect yourself. She knows she can show you total disdain and you will accept it putting the blame on yourself. I hope your therapist deals with the issues why you are willing to accept such behavior and act like such a doormat to her. You need to be strong and assert yourself. No contact, marriage counseling and discussions with you is a must. Think about the role model you are to your children and the role model of your wife. She is manipulating you with divorce because she enjoys screwing this other man and she does not like you discussing it.
What is wrong with this picture? I wish you luck but it is time for you to stop being a pin cushion. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.

When is she getting another job?

It is my plan to verify NC, be able to discuss our relationship and marriage without it leading to an argument, and to see a MC together.

I think timing is key to success here. I can't physically get her to do these things. I am trying to persuade her by taking a firm stance and delivering a consistent message in a calm, controlled manner. I really am trying to avoid AO's, something that I had no control over immeadialty after DDay.

Why am I in denial--what do you mean by this?

I do feel like a doormat at times, and that fuels my anger. Rather than blow up, I hold back, evaluate, and try to take the above approach. Isn't this part of Plan A?

WIO

J39,
I have asked her to consider this change. Problem is that she is making substantial income and has worked hard to get to this point.

OM, while a co-worker, is in another city, so there are not daily sightings or easy physical access.

Big issue looming on the horizon is their annual convention (Winter) where they will be in same meetings, same hotel, etc.

I'm trying not to think about that right now, as it makes me rage, just taking it a step at a time.

WIO

Hello,

It sounds like you are trying very hard. I would suggest that either you go with her to the convention or have her not go. She chose to have a sexual affair and put your health at risk so these are some of the consequences to her affair.
What I meant about being in denial was probably incorrect. What I meant was that no consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. She has to live with the consequences of her actions but she apparently refuses to have no contact with the OM.
I would consistenly been in contact with the OM's wife to exchange notes at the very least. Remember you did not put a gun to her head for her to continue screwing a married man. What do you think her reaction to you and your marriage would have been if the roles were reversed? I doubt she would have accepted your continuous contact with the woman you were cheating on her with. What do you think?

She insists that she has not had any contact with OM since DDay. I want her to confirm this with actions (accouting for her time and activities during the day, which she will do if I ask her) and supporting data (cell phone bills, access to her email and work voicemail, which she is not willing to do at this point).

When I ask her what she would do if roles were reversed in this situation, she says that she would take the kids and leave me.

I agree with the consequences to her actions point you are making, and think that the best way is the approach I outlined in my above post. I am going to be calm and consistent until she addresses the consequences of her actions and makes the changes necessary for our marriage.

WIO

Hello Again,

It sounds like you are certainly on the right track. I wish you well.

Thanks BryanP,
I think its the right approach, I just need some cooperation from her to make it happen.

Thanks for your input. I will also be working on my confidence and self-respect per your advice.

WIO

1) Plan A requires no cooperation from her. Please read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. Note that Harley's thinking has evolved some since that was written, and he now recommends exposure of the affair during Plan A. Also, your spouse will be incredibly angry when you do some of the things in Plan A, particularly exposure, so be prepared for that. Don't forget, affairs are addictions. The reason for their anger is that what you are doing threatens their addiction. This is very different than a Love Buster. They get mad, but later see that it was simply an effort to end the A - in other words, to fight for your marriage. Eventually, they respect that, but at first they are too angry. It is best to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (but see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

If she is not willing to prove to you that the A is ended and there is no contact, then you have no reason to believe she has ended it. If she is continuing contact, the A is not over anyway, whatever she says, and recovery cannot really start. Furthermore, informing the OP's spouse is absolutely required for ethical and practical reasons. Practically, affairs die when exposed. Ethically, if you were in her shoes, you would want to know, wouldn't you? Why would you want to protect him so he can hurt her again?

"When I ask her what she would do if roles were reversed in this situation, she says that she would take the kids and leave me. "

What she is telling you is that there should be consequences to having an affair. She would probably respect you more if you did what she would do.

Sorry, Yosh, you're wrong. She will ultimately respect him for doing the right things...the hard things. If he just bails at this point, that only reinforces in her mind that the marriage wasn't worth saving anyway.

WIO...Start Plan A big time. Snoop- don't feel guilty. I've often said that she only should get as much privacy as you're willing to give her, but you should manage that carefully at this point.

Low

Low

I agree. I am snooping, but not coming up with much at this point. Not sure that there is anything, but not 100% sure its over. All I can do at this point is check her cell phone, which she can erase calls. I have verbally requested cell phone records, emails, and work phone voicemail.

I am continuing with my efforts to move into and through Plan A. She is verbally assuring me that the A is over. I am consistently requesting (avoiding any AO's) that she give me actions (she will give me her daily activity details, but only when I ask), and data (nothing yet) to match up and support her verbal reassurance.

As I have had difficulty communicating with her verbally, I am trying it in letter form (will give her the first one tomorrow morning) per Zorweb's post (thanks J39!)

I will let you know what happens.

WIO

WIO - So how did the letter go? Interested to see how your plan worked. Keep us updated. I tried a similar approach with my WH (letter writing) and it seemed to work, I was able to get my points across clearly and concisely while avoiding any AO's.

It was a disaster. I went over it with her on Mon night, and it turned into a big argument.

She got defensive, said she didn't want to talk about the A anymore, that it was over and that talking about it just makes her think of OM.

She said some nasty, hurtful things, like if I told anyone else, she would leave me and go be with him because he would marry her in a second, and that she had fun with him, and that talking about the A with me was not fun.

The worst part was that I had to go on a trip for 2 days, starting the next morning, so I had to deal with all the emotions on my own.

She is simply not going to cooperate as far as talking about it, has told me that she has made the choice to stay with me, and will not go to MC.

I'm just going to go with that for the time being. Tired of arguing and worrying all the time.

I don't care about it anymore.

WIO