I am new here and I am just looking for some support, advice and reassurance. I have read Dr. Harley's advice and it has really helped me understand what has happened in my marriage. My original D day was August 15. It happened when I came home and was not supportive of my wife when she had hurt her head. I was a dreadful practicer of "love busters". I was critical and and got angry with her because she had cut her head by running into the door. I can actually remember thinking she had ruined dinner. We were arguing later that night when she told me she was "attracted to another man at work". This devastated me. I just did not understand. I had always trusted my wife completely. We have been married for 11 years and together for 15 years. We have two children as well - how could she have been in this situation? Only within the last two years has she worked at this part time job (It is seasonal during the summer). She works only 2 or 3 days a week (or on weekends) and only some of this time with the om. Anyhow I was glad she told me - but having an unbelievably hard time dealing with it because when she told me and I asked her if she still wanted to be married she said "I don't know." I asked her if she wanted to reveal the attraction to the om and she said "I don't know." We both agreed to see a counselor after original d day. Even through counseling I was having a hard time dealing with this revelation. I think my wife realized this and changed her story 1 month later to say she made up the attraction story - she only wanted to shake up our marriage because I was not paying attention to her. So I agreed I would try to make changes to better our marriage. Well on Sunday October 19 I went to the amusement park where she works to surprise her with my kids. When I got there my wife was having a bee sting treated by the om. (They are both emt's). I was looking in through the window of the first aid trailer. I saw how the om looked at my wife after he treated her and I knew I had problems. I told my wife people don't look at friends the way he looked at her. She told me she loved me and she was with me and that's where she wanted to be while I was still there at the amusement park. I let her know I was very upset with what I saw. The next day she told me I was never going to get over the fact that she told me she was attracted to om even though she made it up and she thought we needed to separate. She said she would leave with the kids or I could leave. I told her I thought the kids should stay home to go to school the next day with some sort of normalcy. She ended up spending the night in a hotel even though I pleaded with her not to. She did tell me which hotel and it was close to home. She said she needed time to sort things out but she would be home to get the kids ready for school - and she did. Thats the only night we have been apart through this whole ordeal. Finally, the following day she told me she had kissed the om passionately on two separate occasions. I sunk as low as I have ever been in my life. She was still maintaining and still maintains she had not had sexual intercourse with om. Regardless I felt like she had an affair - whether sexual intercourse was involved or not. I have immersed myself in Dr. Harley's website and found many answers I was looking for. He may save our marriage. I realized I was responsible for my wife's vulnerability. I don't condone what she did but I was a contributing factor. I asked my wife to read his basic concepts and the four part series on coping with an affair with an open mind. I told her it did not matter what she had done - if she only kissed him I accepted that. If she had sexual intercourse with him - I accepted that. She was scheduled to work 3 more days this summer but agreed after much reading and discussion to not work those 3 days even though she loves her job. She would not write a letter to the om because she reasoned that was for people who had actually had sexual intercourse with the other person. But she has agreed to write a letter as discussed in part II of coping with an affair if the om contacts her. I told her I understood she loved her job and to not go to work would be very hard for her to do. If she had decided to go to work I don't know what I would have done but I know from reading the site that an ultimatum would not have worked - it had to be her decision. We both also took the emotional needs questionnare. I was meeting her needs in 6 out of 10. This included her need for sexual fulfillment on which she rated me a 2(extremely satisfied). But when she rated her top 5 emotional needs her top 3 were 3 of the 4 on which I got a negative rating (she was dissatisfied). I am now working on that by reading all of Dr. Harley's q&a and articles. What I want to know is did I make it safe enough for her to be completely honest - which is my #1 need? And do you think we are on the right path to be able to make our marriage better than ever? I am completely willing to do everything in my power to make her aware how much I love her - because she was meeting my needs in 7 of 10 areas. I know I love her and we are continuing to see a couselor as well as me working on understanding as much as I can through Dr. Harley's site. The other problem is that 6 months from now if our marriage is back on track and we continue to work at it - Is it safe for my wife to work in the same arrangement with the om? I hope by then I will be much more in tune with her needs. Any comments would be appreciated.

My wife had a an affair with a contractor who she met at business meetings about once a month...that was two years ago...guess who she is seeing in a week? real hard to sit at home while they still see each other. Lots of emothions to deal with. First, She has to send a 'no Contact" letter basically breaking it off and saying that while they still must see each other, its only for professional reasons. Hey, it still sucks, I am not going to BS you. But that is were it starts.

hurting - You should be in Plan A. Good for you for reading so much, you're on your way to recovery. Sounds like your wife wants marriage to work too. Keep posting here, you'll get great advice and support.

Thanks believer I need the encouragement. I have never been thru anything like this. Working on Plan A. Thank you as well Arewehavn - stay strong.

Hurting DL,
Your situation sounds a bit like mine, although my W and the OM had worked together years ago, not recently.
I discovered an EA about 18 months ago. Since then I've been on this discovery odyssey. Over the first 3 months, I discovered cell phone bills, a few e-mails and even overheard a v-mail. The entire time I asked about their relationship and was lied to. I shared a lot of the concepts from this web site with my W. I also read the book "Not Just friends" I probably should have read Harley's "SAA." I would read her sections at night. Finally got her to admit that the "friendship" was an EA. My Plan A began to work and she warmed up to me so we thought we were in recovery for the past 12 months.
Unfortunatley little detaild that didn't make sense kept haunting me. This past summer while on vacation I told her that I didn't feel that I had the entire story. She finally confessed to a PA.

What does this have to do with you? In retrospect I might have gotten more truth earlier if she hadn't felt intimidated by my reactions each time more truth came out. Then again my wife is a classic Conflict Avoider so I also think that that is just her rationalization. How does your W handle conflict? How have you handled conflict in the past? If you have gotten angry, you're like me and it may be a long while before you'll get all of the truth. Your W needs to see that you've truelly changed and even then don't bet on it.

Also early in MB days I pushed the concepts on her. I wanted results NOW! This was despite the advice from TooMuchCoffee, BryanAMP and others to relax and take it slow.

Even when she finally admitted to the EA and said that that was it. I knew that it was probably a PA as well because they had the oppurtunity. Did your wife have the oppurtunity? Alot of EA never turn P because of the distance between the 2 parties but even then they find ways to meet.

Does your W now see that her R with the OM is at the minimum an EA? Or is she still in the "just friends" category? Your comment on the NC letter answers my question I think. As to your question on the work environment, long term she shouldn't work there but again take it slow. She'll have alot of processing and learning to go through before a NC letter is written.

Your heading in the write direction though. Keep on Plan Aing to be the best person you can be for yourself and for her. Some of the things you said tell me that she may still be sitting on the fence.

Give me more detail if you can.

Cwmac

cwmac, Yes our situations are very similar. My wife will also do anything to avoid conflict. It stems from having alcoholic father. She never told me when things would upset her. The only difference in our situations being my wife would not have had as much opportunity for pa. I think it is in the back of my mind. I, like you, would have angry outbursts when my wife originally started revealing details - never physical but loud verbal. She even told our therapist she has never felt physically threatened by me (she has no reason to.) I have only recently gotten better control after reading Dr. Harley's articles including the one on lb's. The only factor that leads me to believe she did not have pa is that I was meeting her sexual fulfillment need. She said the 2 kissing incidents took place back in early August. From that point until just in the last week it was not uncommon for us to engage in sexual relations 2-4 times per week. And the emotional trauma of last week had us completely worn out - and her very sick. According to one of Dr. Harley's articles it stated women have a hard time performing sexually if they are involved in a pa. This has never been a problem. The other thing is my wife only worked part time - and on some of those occasions om was not scheduled to work. They also never worked alone. It is an entire group. The two kisses took place when they happened to be the only two people in the first aid trailer. My wife is a stay at home mom the rest of the time. And my grandmother lives in a mother-in-law suite in the back of my house. So not much opportunity there. My wife also spends a lot of time at kids school. In addition om is a firefighter at his full time job during the day. I also kept pretty good tabs on her after original d day of 8-15-03. No unusual credit card spending or bank withdrawals. No late nights away from home on unscheduled work days or anything of that nature. My w also had hernia surgery on 9-10-03 and was off of work until beginning of October. I was off work all last thursday and friday as well as off work this week and have gotten no phone calls or email from om. I check wife's email regularly and I am here - so he has not tried to contact her - she has been very sick. I have asked my wife for details and probably have been pushing too hard. I will try to slow down. I am afraid of what she might say but I can't stand not knowing. But I back off and am sure to never practice lb. I am very calm when I am talking to her. I want her to know I am safe to tell. I have let her know that for health reasons I would also like to know - and she should tell me for the sake of our 2 children. Like I said originally, I wrote her a letter stating that it did not matter to me what had happened, if it was pa I would accept that. We have been to personal counselor 4 times now. Of course she did not tell her the truth the first two times either. She went with the story she told me - even in counseling. I think the guilt my wife had for ea finally is what got her to tell anyway. She has told me she is sorry for what she has done. Through the whole ordeal until early last week she told me she wanted to be with me. Now last week when she told me of the kisses she said she wanted to "let me go" that I deserved better. She said she loved me but wasn't positive she was "in love with me" I asked her to look at me and tell me she did not love me anymore. She could not do it. So I don't know. I want to believe she is telling me the truth. I guess time will tell as it did with you. Om was married as well but getting divorced. Wife became aware of his pending divorce in september. So I am sure this created more emotional conflict in her. This om was meeting her most important en which was conversation and I was not. He also expressed a lot of admiration for her which she said I was not giving her. But as of last friday she said she is committed to making our marriage work. I let her know I thought it was just a matter of time b4 other man contacted her. She agreed to tell me immediately and write a letter to him if he does. So I don't know, what do you think? I feel o.k. that we are on a path to recovery.

Hurting,
Please tell me more about what your wife has admitted to pre-DDay. Most of your posts talk about post DDay.

cwmac, I am not sure exactly what to say. B4 original D-day August 15 when she told me she just had an "attraction" she used to tell me everything that was going on. She never tried to hide when she was around om or any of the guys she works with. I know when she went to lunch with om and another co worker on one occasion. I was told up front they were going and where. It ended up not even happening because om and friend are firefighters and they were paged for a fire. I also know of one occasion when she invited me to go to amusement park where she works on a day off and I did not go. Om ended up walking around the park with my wife and kids because my little boy is only six and not big enough to ride roller coasters. Om offered to stand with him why my w and daughter rode roller coasters. W told me about this and daughter confirmed. None of this information was ever hidden from me - that's why I suspected nothing. W was always forthright about whereabouts - and her stories always checked out. To my knowledge w never saw om outside of work and I have found nothing to prove otherwise (and I have looked high and low). Now only last week did she admit to kissing om even though it happened b4 original d day aug 15. I asked her why it did not happen again since August - she can't explain. I said is it only because you did not have opportunity and she said "I guess so I really don't know". With her surgery and everything - she really has not had much opportunity. And after 1st d day on August 15 I questioned her each time she worked. She could tell the "attraction" thing was eating me alive. I think she felt guilty for hurting me so badly. I really did not hide the fact I was hurting. In our original counseling session on Aug 15 I pretty much cried my eyes out so my wife knew how bad I was hurting. But when the counselor asked both of us if we still wanted to be married w said "absolutely". So I don't know if that is the info you were looking for or not. Let me know your thoughts.

Hurting,
First of all please go get the book I suuggested earlier. It is great on EAs and will help you but more importantly it will help your wife understand how you feel. If you are like me it is hard for me to articulate my feelings so it helped to be able to read my wife a passage while we read togehter at the end of the day.

I also have a few thoughts on your situation.

Before I start let me give you more info on my situation. My W has admitted to a one time physical act in Summer '01 with the OM while the EA was ongoing for at least 12 months thru March '02. She claims that both of them felt extremely guilty after the sex. Well,duh. I discovered the A as an EA in January '02. She didn't agree to a NC letter until May'02 and that was after I presented her with irrefutable evidence. I had overheard a conversation that she had with the OM. In it she said things like....."things can't be like they were...there is not a day that goes by that I don't think of you 10 times" "I still want to see you because when I do I just melt" From that point on we thought we were in recovery but my nagging doubts about the PA part kept haunting the recovery. Finally this last summer while on vacation I told her that she needed to tell me all of the truth. Well she thought we'd been in recovery for over a year so she was very indignant. Could have won an academy award. Two nights later she woke me up at 3:00am and told me about the PA. Now recovery has started

What does your gut tell you? Based upon your previous postings I can't really tell whether you think that a PA occurred despite what your wife tells you or whether you believe her explanantions. Seems like you may suspect.

You've never said how long she has known the OM. Did she just meet him this past summer at the job or have they known each other for several summers. She ever talk about him quite a bit, say last summer, and then go quiet on you about him this summer?


Let me give a few thoughts on a couple of your previous comments:

she told me she was "attracted to another man at work".
through counseling I was having a hard time dealing with this revelation. I think my wife realized this and changed her story 1 month later to say she made up the attraction story - she only wanted to shake up our marriage because I was not paying attention to her.
Conflict avoiders change the story or downplay the seriousness.

The next day she told me I was never going to get over the fact that she told me she was attracted to om even though she made it up and she thought we needed to separate. She said she needed time to sort things out
To me this is classic WS fog talk. Another example is I love you but I'm not in love with you. She is rationalizing that because you will always be angry with her that it's ok for her to leave and then she spends a night at a hotel. This is also after you've seen her through the window with the OM attending to her.

After the hotel she feelt guilt and tells you.... Finally, the following day she told me she had kissed the om passionately on two separate occasions.

She would not write a letter to the om because she reasoned that was for people who had actually had sexual intercourse with the other person. My W acted the same way. At the time I felt it was because she didn't believe in EAs and that she truely thought that she was just "friends." At that point I only knew about all of the cell calls between them. I had also overheard a v-mail from him to her syaing that he "really missed her and needed to see her for at a "minimum" lunch. He never said I love you but his tone said I love you if that makes any sense. Reminds me of you looking in the window and seeing the look that the OM had on his face. He didn't say I love you but his look did. Today I have the hindsight to say that her refusal to send a NC letter was because she had had a PA that at the time of discovery was still at a minimum an EA. She may have also feared that if she admitted to the EA then I would assume it was PA also.

You said I was meeting her needs in 6 out of 10. This included her need for sexual fulfillment on which she rated me a 2(extremely satisfied). But when she rated her top 5 emotional needs her top 3 were 3 of the 4 on which I got a negative rating and The only factor that leads me to believe she did not have pa is that I was meeting her sexual fulfillment need. and From that point until just in the last week it was not uncommon for us to engage in sexual relations 2-4 times per week. and lastly According to one of Dr. Harley's articles it stated women have a hard time performing sexually if they are involved in a pa. OK..here is some tough info.... IMO the previous statements do not disprove a PA. My W answered the survey in exactly the same manner. During the month of her PA and the year of EA we had sex regularly. My W met my EN's of SF as a way to make me happy and in some cases to "keep me quiet". I did notice a subtle change, however because in that time period we had alot more "quickies" especially those where she was on top and more in control of duration. So she gave me the sex I needed but....

Now last week when she told me of the kisses she said she wanted to "let me go" that I deserved better. She said she loved me but wasn't positive she was "in love with me" Fog talk as mentioned above.

Ok ..from what you tell me it sounds as though your wife hasn't had much oppurtunity since DDay between her surgery, the kids, grandmother in the back unit etc. What about before? If they worked together they had lunch hours. If he was working one day and she wasn't or vice versa they could meet during lunch. Does he live close to work? Does his W work?

But as of last friday she said she is committed to making our marriage work. I let her know I thought it was just a matter of time b4 other man contacted her. She agreed to tell me immediately and write a letter to him if he does. So I don't know, what do you think? I feel o.k. that we are on a path to recovery. Yes you are on the right path. Keep plan Aing. Be the best H and Father that you can. Don't chase her just be there and be a happy good person. Has she noticed that you are less angry? In my situation my W appreciated the new me but was still suspect about telling the truth of the A because she thought that all of the good work would be swept away.
Buy that book and read it and read excerpts to your W. Let her know how much time you are investing in tryng to create a better marriage and hopefully she'll warm up to the idea of sending a NC letter now not when he contacts her again. When would they start working together again? next summer?

B4 original D-day August 15 when she told me she just had an "attraction" she used to tell me everything that was going on. She never tried to hide when she was around om or any of the guys she works with. I know when she went to lunch with om and another co worker on one occasion. I was told up front they were going and where. It ended up not even happening because om and friend are firefighters and they were paged for a fire. I also know of one occasion when she invited me to go to amusement park where she works on a day off and I did not go. Om ended up walking around the park with my wife and kids because my little boy is only six and not big enough to ride roller coasters. Om offered to stand with him why my w and daughter rode roller coasters. W told me about this and daughter confirmed. None of this information was ever hidden from me One thing to remember about any type of A is that your spouse is going to lie to you. There are two ways to lie: commission but also ommisssion. It sounds like some of the above is ommission. She tells you a fact the trip to the amusement park but what happened that she didn't tell.

In our original counseling session on Aug 15 I pretty much cried my eyes out so my wife knew how bad I was hurting. All the more reason why she may be afraid to tell you the truth. Some people rationalize that you shouldn't tell the truthof an A because it will deeply hurt the person and could end the marriage. Keep telling her that you love and cherish her and that regardless of the truth you will not end the M. Let her know that the truth is also needed so that recovery can truely begin.

The most important thing is even though you have the need to talk about this day and night try very hard not to. It will push her way from you. If she truely has committed to you as she has said then it's tough for her to be reminded of her mistake. Pick a time and a place to discuss it and then try to keep it out of the rest of the day.

Let me know what you think.

cwmac

thanks for advice cwmac, I'm sure I am pushing too hard. I have my doubts about whether pa took place or not. I'm really on the fence. There was no way she could have planned the night at the hotel with om because she was planning on taking the kids with her to her mothers. She did not take the kids because I insisted they stay home. So she would have had to call him after she was there. That is the only night she spent away from home through this whole thing. So who knows. Also I can't rationalize why she would tell me the hotel she was staying at if she were going to call om. I confirmed the next day that she was at the particular hotel she told me - and it was true. I could have gone there if I had wanted to badly enough. I came really close - because you can imagine the scenarios I had in my mind. She has only known om for 2 summers - this summer and last. And yes it would be next summer before they work together again. Anyway, I appreciate your advice. I think my w is a little frustrated I have become almost obsessed with this matter. But I need to talk to someone and I just want to repair my marriage no matter what has happened. As I said b4 if it turns out she did have a pa I will accept that as well. What are your thoughts on me calmly approaching om and letting him know I have been told about kisses? Is that a big mistake? If you have other insights let me know.

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<small>[ February 16, 2004, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: cpx ]</small>

Also DL,

OM broke NC so I telephoned him. It really helped me and ensured NC. Although I have not told OMW yet (have to discuss with W @ MC I think).

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=012818

cpx

....although your situation is different because OM is divorced or free, right? Sorry for multiple posts.

Hurting,

The night of the hotel doesn't concern me as much as the oppurtunities preDDay. I personally think she was feeling immense guilt that's why she changed her story and then said that because you will never forgive her you should seperate and she retreated off to the hotel. After As are discovered either party can end the M. The BS because of the hurt, sadness, humiliation & anger. My MC said just as often WS can end the M because of the huge amount of guilt. If your W is the true conflict avoider as my W your discovery has begun the end of the affair. She may go through a kind of depression/ anxiety because she misses him.

You asked whether you should call the OM. Dr. Harley and everyone else on this board say a huge "NO." He is not your friend. You have no idea how your W has painted you to him. My W painted me as the big horrible Anger Ogre. If ther has been NC because of DDay, then he'll be concerned for her and contact her. Do you want that?

I did call my OM's W after the recent discovery of the P part of the A. I should have call3ed her from day one, though. You may want to do the same. Earlier you said that they were getting a divorce but who really knows. He may have just told your W that. Or if they are getting a divorce she may know something about OM & your W. Who knows? In my case the OM'sW had no idea and couldn't/wouldn't believe me. She confronted him that evening and he admitted to an EA but he lied to her

You said... I think my w is a little frustrated I have become almost obsessed with this matter. But I need to talk to someone and I just want to repair my marriage no matter what has happened. My W reacted the same way because she wasn't sure if my Plan A changes were real or contrived. Plus she had the guilt bottled up inside. Plus she missed the OM. Slowly she saw that the Plan A changes were going to be long term with only an occassional upsaet over the EA and undiscovered PA.

You need to relax and slow down. I know easier said than done. For the next couple of weeks just keep telling your W that you want the M to work and as I said last night that regardless of what information comes out that you do not plan to end the M! For the next two weeks try not to even talk about the A unless she or the MC bring it up. I know hard... but if you eventually want to make sure that you have all the truth you've got to do it.

As part of Plan A you are supposed to take care of yourself. Do you exercise? If so exercise yourself everyday until you drop because it will keep you healthy during this and it will help take away some of that nervous energy that you are focusing on your W. Keep your Plan A going. I also had to go get on an anti-depressant. Go to your D. and get on something. I was on Lexapro twice during my 18 month search for the truth.

You never responded about the cell phone bills. Does your wife have one? It is one of the biggest telltale signs.

If you want to save your M. You need to relax and let things take their course. I was the same way I wanted everything to happen at once wanted to go from Discovery to Recovery in about a weeks time. Not going to happen. Best to take it sloooow.

Has your W noticed your Plan A efforts especially with the anger?

Hang in there. Buy the book. Get on some ant-depressants.

cwmac

cpx and cwmac, I ,like cpx, have found this website to be a lifesaver. It helped me understand a lot I never could have on my own. I was very much a black and white person. No gray for me. If you had asked me even earlier this year if I would have accepted what my wife had done whether its an ea, pa or whatever you would have received a resounding "no". But now I understand more than I ever have and no matter what happens - I feel I will be a better person because of this. That which does not destroy you will only make you stronger. I guess this "fog" ws enters makes you believe you don't even know this person to whom you have been married - at least that's how I felt. It was almost like I was talking to a stranger because I could not believe the things she was telling me. I felt like I was living in a dream and any second I would wake up and none of this would ever have happened. My wife has never admitted "loving" om. She only says she was confused and she does not feel nor ever felt anything for him like she does for me. She can't or won't put into words what she felt for om. So I don't know what that means. cwmac, as far as cell phone records I have none. We use prepurchased minutes because we rarely use that particular phone. So if she made calls it would be impossible for me to know. The email I checked regularly but never found any from om. I have let w read all of the postings I have made and the responses I have received. Some reactions have been rather strong on her part. She is not very keen on me talking to omw. She says if thats what I need to do then do it. But I know it will not make her very happy. I am afraid to push it too much further. It does not even matter what I find out. I still want to be married to my w and I let her know that. But by talking to omw it could expose om is not even telling the truth about his personal situation. I told w I felt she was protecting om and not me. I really am not worried about om's feelings and maybe it will lead him to get some help - this will be 2nd divorce for him if its truly what is going on. Anyway, w is still steadfast that no pa ever took place. We are on very good terms right now considering all we have been through. I have not seen many "withdrawal symptoms". I told w I believe she will eventually write a nc letter because it is the right thing to do. So we shall see.

cwmac, I also exercise on a regular basis - daily runs of 5 miles or more. I think I can make it without meds right now. I run far enough and long enough that the endorphins kick in and make me feel much better. Have been doing this since I was 14 and I'm 33 now. So I will keep it up. Thanks for advice.

Hurting,
Try to break your messages into smaller paragraphs. Large paragraphs are tough to follow and hard on the eyes. thanks.

Share "Not Just Friends" with your W NOT these postings!! Have you bought the book yet or do I need to send you my copy??? This book is about 15-20% of one MC session and based upon most MCs knowledge of EAs or PAs it is worth $1M.

I have let w read all of the postings I have made and the responses I have received. Some reactions have been rather strong on her part. I wish you would have asked for advice on this before doing it. I would have suggested that you tell your W that you have found a great web site, MB.com and they have great ideas on how to improve Ms ie meeting needs, POJA, etc. I wouldn't have told her that you found it because of the infidelity. I made the mistake w/ my W of just showing her articles on EAs and infidelity so she naturally was defensive of the site. I have never shared with her my postings. IMO your W now thinks the only reason you are Plan Aing is to manipulate her into telling her the full truth of her relationship w/OM. So it will now take alot longer, maybe a year, until she truely believes Plan A is here to stay for good.

I ,like cpx, have found this website to be a lifesaver. It helped me understand a lot I never could have on my own. I was very much a black and white person. No gray for me. If you had asked me even earlier this year if I would have accepted what my wife had done whether its an ea, pa or whatever you would have received a resounding "no". But now I understand more than I ever have and no matter what happens - I feel I will be a better person because of this. Everyone here on the site is with you on this. I was definitely a B/W person on infidelity. My W was too. She would always criticize this movie star or that one for their As and for the men divorcing the W for a young starlet.

My wife has never admitted "loving" om. She only says she was confused and she does not feel nor ever felt anything for him like she does for me. She can't or won't put into words what she felt for om. So I don't know what that means. and I have let w read all of the postings I have made and the responses I have received. Some reactions have been rather strong on her part. She is not very keen on me talking to omw. She says if thats what I need to do then do it. But I know it will not make her very happy. I told w I felt she was protecting om and not me. Her actions speak louder than words. She says that she doesn't have feelings for him compared to you yet you are absolutely right she is protecting the OM and not taking your feelings into consideration. My W did exactly the same.

Another reason not to share postings with the W is that early on they feel that their EA or PA was special; not like anything else in the world. Full of fantasy, etc. They don't want to hear from other BSs," yeah my WW or FWW did the exact same thing."

I have not seen many "withdrawal symptoms" Neither did I. Ws are conflict avoiders so less likely to show the symptoms of missing the OM.

When you can promise me that you aren't sharing all of my thought with your W, I will giuve you more insight into a WW, who is also a conflict avoider.

BTW, how are you coming on Plan A and meeting all of her needs?

Cwmac

cwmac, sorry - probably should have asked first for your thoughts. Part of fog I have been caught up in myself. Sometimes I am honest to a fault - just have nothing to hide. I guess I assume everyone treats life this way - obviously naieve on my part. I typically give people the benefit of the doubt. Hoping this does not set back our recovery. Still working on plan A. Will get the book. W knows of site now - no way I can guarantee she will not see postings.

She has access to my email any time she wishes. I really wish I had asked you first but I did not. Would appreciate any advice.

Hurting,
I personally wouldn't want the W to read these postings. It would be like her reading my mind.. Not only reading the end results of my thoughts but also reading the many thoughts that go into the cognitive process of making decisions. I would suggest you log on with a new user name. I think there are people here who have spouses reading their posts but they are waaay down the line into recovery. Even then I'm not sure I'd like it.

Good luck.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HURTING DL:
cwmac, sorry - probably should have asked first for your thoughts. Part of fog I have been caught up in myself. Sometimes I am honest to a fault - just have nothing to hide. I guess I assume everyone treats life this way - obviously naieve on my part. I typically give people the benefit of the doubt. Hoping this does not set back our recovery. Still working on plan A. Will get the book. W knows of site now - no way I can guarantee she will not see postings.

She has access to my email any time she wishes. I really wish I had asked you first but I did not. Would appreciate any advice.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well done HDL!

Don't apologize for being open and honest with your W, for you are showing her through your example that privacy has no place in a marriage.

True intimacy can not flourish in an environment where BOTH spouses keep their most deepests thoughts and feelings to themselves.

Keep up the good work.