In a nutshell, I called the OW's H to compare stories. Long story short, the OW ended up saying goodbye to my H because he lied to her. Kept telling her that we were getting divorced, yet we were in marriage counseling.

I met with my H last night. I understand he is very angry and resentful of me. He believes I have caused him all this pain. He agrees that he set it up, but I initiated it. I know he's in withdrawls and grieving for his OW. How long does this stage last?

At this point, he is staying with his mom. He is convinced that he has to "find himself" before he can be in any relationship and he keeps saying he doesn't know how long this will take. Basically, that he's not going to move back home until this happens. Does anyone have any suggestions or experience in this area? I'd like to try to get him to consider coming home, but know I can't approach this for at least a couple of weeks.

He's telling me that he needs to have minimal contact with me. How do we start to work on us if we're only having minimal contact AND he's not in the house?

Right now his tone is very depressed, which I understand, but he doesn't even sound like he has any hope that we can recover our marriage. Is this normal for someone in withdrawls? (The contact was cut Sunday night).

Advice, suggestions, support needed desperately.

Hope

My advice may not be worth much, but on the outset it sounds like you need to take charge of the situation. You are letting him make all the decisions on this when it should be you outlining what needs to happen next.

Don't let him steer the course on this.

hope - ripped is right. You should be in Plan A, and taking care of yourself. Get busy exercising, cleaning the house, working on your issues, painting, going out with friends, going to church, support groups, etc. Your H is still not showing remorse. You need to take your time and take care of you. When you see H, be kind, cordial, etc., but do not accept the blame for his actions. Good luck, and keep posting here.

Let him stay with his mom. He wants time, give him some time. You can't change his mind. You can't force yourself on him. I don't think that there is anything you can do to speed up his recovery but there is plenty you can do to slow it down. He is gone for the moment, use this time for yourself. Let him know that you are there if he needs you and leave it at that.

My lovely wife moved out for over three months so she could find herself. It is hard for all involved. I think that most of the time this "finding yourself" is a load of houey (SP) and is thrown about because it is easy to say, impossible to explain and difficult to put a timeline on but....... in some cases it is needed. It was this way in my lovely wife's case. She had enough crap going on and the whole marriage "recovery" was getting in the way. This separation also gave me some much needed time to be on my own and "be" just for me withouth worrying what the hell she was doing.

She was gone for over 4 months before she wanted to come back. Things couldn't be better and I see no end in sight to the greatness we can achieve. When two people put God first in their lives everthing else falls into place. Kind of like Peter walking on the water. Don't look at what is going on around you because you can't change any of that. Keep your eyes on the Lord and the storm around you isn't as bad.

God Bless

d_rose,

Did you find that at first your lovely wife could not see the relationship at all? Wasn't sure that she ever could???

This is why I think I'm becoming very depressed. The way he talks, just sounds like he cannot even consider the possibility that we could have a future. I know he is grieving right now -- I just don't know how I will continue to hold on and be strong when he continually beats me down with this.

Hope

Hope,

You have him were you want him. Don't be down. Seriously, this is good and it is text book. Go read the sections on withdrawal on this site. Your H will go through that, and it may take a month or so to get through it. It depends on the length of the affair.

But, this is normal. He just got rejected, and you KNOW full well how much that hurts. THen he is going to really feel bad because of what he has done to you. ANd then he is going to be really confused.

And all the while there is this woman sitting there, with a "come hither" smile on her face (you) and he is really going to be confused. WHat the heck is she smiling about? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You of course are smiling because you KNOW that this is normal, and it is part of the process, and you have done your homework on recovery, you know about withdrawal, and you know where you didn't meet his needs, and you know how to rebuild this marriage, and... HE is sitting there wondering "why is that woman smiling as if she knows something I don't?

Hope, recovery in some ways is actually harder than anything you went through so far. Please read the articles on it. It will take great patience on your part, but rest assured everything you have said about your H, is pretty normal.

So full speed ahead into the waiting game, all the guages are on nominal, you are good to go. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Keep reading, and give this time and patience. Step 1 is over, the next step is withdrawal, and then you move toward recovery and the redefinition of your marriage. You can do this.

God Bless,

JL

PS: As Starfish or Takola, they will tell you the same thing, I think most here will.

Hope,

I would echo those last posts, however I must re-iterate that you must not let him walk all over you on this.

What would happen if he decides to return home to you, but continue on his errant behaviour? Would you be happy simply to have him back in the house?

Take advantage of the separation and take steps to improve yourself and grow strong. Don't let him create all the rules for recovery here.

But do I really just sit here indefinitely until he makes a decision? That's the part I'm having a very hard time with. Since he wasn't able to make a decision between me and her, I wonder if he'll be able to make a decision to come back and try again? Will he be the one to say I want to come back to the house or is there a way to gently guide him? I don't want to force anything, but it's very hard not to have my H at home and know he's in a place where I am not supported (and may be getting subliminal messages to just cut his losses).

Hope

In my case, I found the information on this website to be very informative and helpful. Have you read up on plan A and plan B? It would seem to be very relavant in your case.. you need to firm up your position on this.

Ripped, I have read up on Plan A and B, but this seems to be a different plan. Maybe just because it's so different I'm feeling that way. My situation seems to be different from everything on these boards. Maybe they're not, but the fact that I'm right smack in the middle of it makes me feel very alone.

My H told me he is very angry and resentful of me for calling the OW's H. Everything else I've read indicates it's the BS who is the one who should be angry and resentful.

When he was still in the house I was really good at Plan A. The Plan B part, mostly because it was initiated by my H and not me, is alot more difficult to do. Maybe this is also because it's just started, maybe with time it'll get easier. I really hope so.

Hope <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hope,

Of course he is mad. You burst the bubble. Now if the A is over, then you can come out of plan B, but you do need to set boundaries before your H returns home.

The point of this is that you do sort of leave him alone and let him figure this out for himself. Be nice, be pleasant, when you two contact, but let him work this out. It will take time, but give it that. I would guess a few weeks perhaps more. His anger is being directed at you, but he knows you were within your rights. He is just doing a little covering up for his decisions.

So if the A is truely over, then you can come out of plan B, or you can stay longer if you are not so sure it has really ended.

You don't want him home until he is ready to come home and he has a lot of things to sort out. He has to face his behavior, and decisions and you can tell from his anger, he isn't doing that so well YET. But, eventually he will.

So calm down. Be happy the A is over, and let him do some sorting. You are not doing badly at all.

God Bless,

JL

I have read up on Plan A and B, but this seems to be a different plan.
You don't know which you are doing?

My situation seems to be different from everything on these boards.
But it's not at all.

My H told me he is very angry and resentful of me for calling the OW's H.
That happens almost every time.

When he was still in the house I was really good at Plan A.
Good.

The Plan B part, mostly because it was initiated by my H and not me, is alot more difficult to do.
The wayward does not initiate, agree or really even participate in Plan B.
Right now, your h is just in "Plan leave me alone and let me stew".
There is no Plan B without a Plan B letter form the betrayed (you).

I'd like to try to get him to consider coming home,
Do not try to convince him to move home UNTIL you have some agreements and a SOLID plan in place.

Have you considered calling MB for counseling?
Read the links below.

I guess I called it Plan B because to me plan b is when you separate physically, which is what we have done. He actually confessed to me that instead of just separating for awhile he was going to ask for a divorce again, but just couldn't.

I guess I'd like some opinions on whether I read too much into this. I figure since he has been unable to insist on the divorce or even move out of the house without saying that someone else thought he should do it, that he really doesn't want to give up on our marriage. To me, the fact that he cannot decide is a sign, however small, that he still has feelings for me somewhere, but we'll need to work on finding them.

We are currently in marriage counseling. He is much like the MB principles and I really like him. Unfortunately, my husband may hear one thing that he decides to "hang onto" and uses that as an absolute on how to "fix" things.

The latest is that he told me the counselor said we should only have "minimal contact" and that we should "indefinitely separate" until he figures himeself out. Now, when I spoke to the counselor yesterday he clarified. He said minimal contact as appropriate , meaning that when we were ready for more contact we should. As far as the "indefinitely separating" he did not say that. He agreed that we should separate for a time so that my H has time to become clear headed and think, but that separation should last maybe 30 days at which point he should try to come home on some sort of basis, even if that means sleeping downstairs in the extra bedroom for awhile.

We have a joint appointment scheduled for the 14th of November, I'm hoping my H will come. He has another IC with him on the 11th.

It's hard to know where you are with someone when you don't see them, talk to them, etc. Very scary. I've never had to give up complete control of something and just hope that it works out the way I want it to. I pray everyday that he comes to his senses and comes back home and decides to work on this marriage. I know we have something that we can work on that can be the relationship we BOTH want. I hope he gets tot he point he can see it too.

He's coming on Saturday to take the kids out. Maybe I can get a sense for his temperature then.

Hope

JL, Star*fish, others:

I just received an email from my husband and need your opinion on how to receive it.

Email from H: (Lisa is OW)
Well I have not been talking to Lisa if that is what you are worried about.
She is very true to her word even when she tells some one who has
probalbly hurt her she will keep that word. i know that about her, even
if I called she would not answer right now. Even if she is not mad at me
wich I know in my heart she is she would not answer the phone nor will she
even play back the message.
I will be over in the morning (Thursday) to get Austin ready for school I
need to get some cloths for work anyway and get my softball cloths and
gear as well.
If Austin wants to walk with the other kids on Thursday morning i will
stay home long enough for him to do that.
I will not be back from the desert until late because this is an evening
event, So I wil not come by this evening to get my stuff.
Chris did say that we should talk about only good things and right now i
am still very upset with you for what you did to Lisa. She was soo close
to getting that closure that she was striving for and I think by making
that call you have set that back. i could have allowed her to get that
closure if I had just stepped away like she wanted me too a couple of
weeks ago. I was selfish and that has caused more pain to be people who
love me than I can forgive myself for right now. I know you had your
reasons for what you did and all of the blame can not be put on you. I
did it I made it happen and when I can stop beeting myself up about it
then maybe-maybe then I can forgive you.
Chris said that I need to forget it but i have not found a way to do
that. I am still on the wrong path but if I could appologies to Lisa for
hurting her then maybe I could move on with my recovery what ever that is?
I know you want to be there for me but that has not been the impression
that I have gotten from you in a very long time thus what has happened. I
can not let you back in. I will always be the father to my children if
they will both let me, but I will never be the same man you fell in love
with, or the man that Lisa fell in love with.
Please ask Austin what he would like to do on Saturday give him a couple
of ddays to think about it. I do not want to buy Jason back into my life
so If he does not want to join us I understand. He is a grown man now and
has to make his own decission. Do not force him to see me if he does not
want to.
i need to get dressed and get out to the desert. I will stop dumping on
you now and take my shower I will check for any response to this before i
go out the door.

Ok, I know that I have to try not to let some of the things he says bother me and I think I can do that. The part I'm having trouble with is the part where he says I can not let you back in.

Is this typical of someone in withdrawl? I hope he doesn't mean forever, he just seems so absolute about things. I know no one can tell what he's thinking but in your experience is this typical at this stage of the game (3 days after she told him goodbye).?

HEEELLLPPPP!!!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Again, I have no experience in this, but this guy is definitely not getting it.

You don't need his forgiveness. He has caused 100% of the pain that has occured..you took the measures necessary to force his hand (sort of a Plan AB all wrapped up in one). Sure, the events prior to all of this happening will take some examination (meeting each others EN's), but right now he needs to get his head back on straight.

<small>[ November 05, 2003, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: Rippedin2 ]</small>

Hope,

My gut feeling is that he's staying away to punish you. (Not fair, but that's the way fog is.) I think he's hoping you'll beg him to come back so he can feel like he was "pushed" into it, then he won't feel the responsibility to make things work. I can't really base this feeling on anything specific, just an impression I've picked up from your words and his email. It would be a mistake to do so. Sure, he may come back, but he'll feel like he's doing you a favor. Let him deal with things on his own terms for a while and make it clear that you can be happy on your own. You are the more valuable member of this marriage, let him realize that and act on it of his own free will. There's a saying in sales that goes along the lines of "If you say it, they'll doubt it. If they say it, they'll believe it." The best way for you to "sell" your marriage is for him to realize that it's what he wants instead of for him to believe that he's doing it because it's what you want. Am I making sense?

I forgot to comment on this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> right now i am still very upset with you for what you did to Lisa. She was soo close to getting that closure that she was striving for and I think by making that call you have set that back. i could have allowed her to get that closure if I had just stepped away like she wanted me too a couple of weeks ago. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the most classic example of fog babble I've ever seen. He's telling you it's YOUR fault that she's hurt because what she REALLY wanted was for him to break it off with her so she could have closure. I'd laugh if it wasn't so awful. But it is proof that he isn't thinking like a rational being right now.

Dobie,
Thanks for the words of encouragement. My head tells me the same thing, however, it's hard not to take the words exactly as you see them. I truly hope he will make the decision to invest in our marriage, not just for the kids, but for our sakes as well. I know I love him, and I know he loves me somewhere deeep, deeeep, deeeeep, down, but has to come to understand that it will take alot of work for us to find it.

Hope

Hope 4 best, I don't know about others, but this sounds like my WS to a T about a year ago. Especially the part that "I know you want to be there for me but I haven't felt like you have for a long time, hence the reason for all this"

and also the fact that he's more worried about making her feel bad then you. We went on vacation with OW and her H, although I didn't know she was OW at the time, and Ws treated OW like a queen and me like a servant. That is also when I found out best friend was OW and I got angry about it. WS got furious with me "how could I treat OW badly, she is the best person, and on and on and on." Even today he is starting to "deFog" but see's what a wonderful wife OW will make for someone.

Regarding only hearing what you want too is typical also. My Ws and I would go to counseling and he would only hear things that justified to him what he was doing. My C says its common and that I probably do it too. No I just embelish a little lol, to fit what I want WS to get and maybe thats what your WH is doing.

I agree that you do need to work on you and let WS find his way back. My WS said also that he would never be able to feel for me again. And to tell the truth he can't remember most of our life but is starting too and I wish he were like some here who love(d) both their wives and OW, my husband is not one he still does not love me, but now he likes me and is beginning the process that follows. He has to open up to the process and it takes so much darn time. But once they do it goes a little faster.

Good luck and this is all to say that yes I have been there and that is what it felt like pure ****!!!!!!!

km4
me 39
ws 44
married 17 years
2 boys 11 and 4
ow was my best friend.