Cerri, Anyone:

What can a person do when a WS is cake-eating and won't leave the home? Honney mentioned this on WMWB's thread in which she withdrew from her H to acquire some sanity:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">However, eventually, I got tired of trying to single-handedly fix everything, and of doing the things I knew he wanted/needed me to do, without him appreciating or even acknowledging my efforts. And I switched gears. I told him that I couldn't continue on the way things were---that I had at least tried---and that if he really still wanted out, he knew where the door was. Living with him, and being nice to him while he treated me like the scum of the earth, was taking its toll on me, to the point that I could barely function. I just couldn't do it any more. So, for my own sanity, I started acting as if he didn't exist (and AGAIN asked him to please leave). I didn't try to talk to him anymore, didn't try to meet any of his needs, didn't do his laundry, didn't ask him what he wanted for supper (though I did set a plate out for him, for the sake of the kids). I came and went without telling him where I was going or when I'd be home (and made arrangements for the kids to either come with me or stay with my parents---never asked him to watch the kids). We basically lived completely separate lives, while living under the same roof.

However, eventually, I reached a point where living this way was more than I could handle. It was shortly after I told him that it was REALLY time for him to leave; and gave him a list of things we'd have to do during, or prior to, our getting a divorce (divide up property, figure out visitations for the kids, etc.) that he ended the affair (he never did move out) and decided that maybe we should give the marriage another try. When faced with the REALITY of losing me and the kids, the fog seemed to clear enough for him to make a decision about who he REALLY wanted to be with. I found out about the affair a couple of days after he ended it (thanks to the ow, who was obviously quite upset that he didn't leave me for her )---but that's a whole 'nuther story.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You replied:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can't do Plan B while in the same house. Plan B is defined by no contact. Plan B is "You don't see them, you don't talk to them," (W. H.) Detachment (withdrawal) yes, certainly you can do, but it's not Plan B, it's a Taker's strategy to protect you from further pain. And it's generally not something I (or Dr. Harley) would reccomend.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why don't you recommend this? What do you recommend in this instead? How do you get the WS off the fence and away from cake-eating?

This is what a good Plan B looks like - and why. Let me know if you have questions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=002688;p=53

Cerri,

Let me clarify. I guess I didn't ask the right question. I'm not talking about Plan B. I know that no contact means no contact--provided that one spouse moves out. What if both spouses must live under the same roof? How do you get around that? Rather than withdrawal, what do a spouse do?

Ok, sorry I guess you were asking why you couldn't do PlB in the same house.

The other option is Plan A. With the essential steps of honesty, confrontation with what you know, how you know it and how you feel about it, and exposure of the A to the world in general. Using the guidelines I have for how to do that.

The thing is, you can't do Plan A forever, and eventually you will shoot yourself in the foot by LBing and by the time you get to that point you won't really care how he feels about your bad behavior. That's just a step from not caring about the marriage because you have lost all feelings of respect and love and all you'll want to do is get out and get it over with.

Staying in the same house and continuing to do Plan A for too long at some point becomes a threat to the marriage. YOU become a threat to the marriage.

Yes it's a huge hassle and sacrifice to move, but not nearly as much so as going through divorce.

C

So what you suggest is that if the WS won't move then the BS must in order to implement Plan B? That's after Plan A is exhausted. What if that includes children as well as Honney had?

Well first, if the WS is a man I would say change the locks and throw him out - providing the wife can manage financially.

If she can't do that or if the WS is the wife then yeah, I would say take the kids and leave.

Yes, yes, I can hear the gasps of horror already, you can't legally lock someone out of their own home. But in reality - if you try it, what is the worst that can happen? They can go to a locksmith and rechange the locks and they could theoretically report you to the police.

But in reality that's pretty unlikely - "Hello, I want to report that my wife locked me out of the house because I've been sleeping with my coworker for the last year and won't end it." I'm thinking that's not going to happen. And if it does all you would get, if anything, is lecture on how you're not supposed to do that.

For me, weighing the risks of that against the risks of facing a divorce and the effects of that on the kids, I would say go for it every time.

Every time I suggest taking the kids and leaving in Plan B there is always a hue and cry saying you can't do that. But really guys - moms do it all the time - particularly WS moms. And no one takes them to court over it.

It's good to know what the law says, and the possible (POSSIBLE not inevitable) consequences of actions you are considering. But in this struggle to save a marriage you need to decide what is the primary goal? Is it to protect material goods and certain rights or is it to save the marriage? Most likely you can't do both really well, so you will need to decide. I will always advocate putting the marriage as the primary goal, and if that means you lose some right to the house or the stuff in it, then so be it. If it means that you might get a visit from an officer or be served with papers that say you took the kids and shouldn't have - I would still do it.

What you don't know until you've been there, and HoFs and JustJ can attest to this very well - court orders are for the most part not worth the paper they are written on. They are violated day in and day out and no one in the legal system (including your lawyer) really gives a rat's rump about it. Don't get your shorts too much in a bunch worrying about legal ramifications - your WS sure isn't. Know the possible outcomes and then make an informed choice, keeping in mind what I said about court orders.

C

SAB- I threw H out when he refused to leave. In California you supposedly can't do that, but I was to the point where I didn't care. He said he was coming back, and I told him "Not while OW is still in picture." Then his daughter called me and said he was calling police on me, and I told her he was not coming back. Well, the police never came and 4 months later I am still in the house and H has rented a room somewhere. I'm in Plan B and he is starting to realize that I mean what I said. Only you can decide when enough is enough, but be sure you don't wait so long that you lose your love for him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> SAB- I threw H out when he refused to leave. In California you supposedly can't do that, but I was to the point where I didn't care. He said he was coming back, and I told him "Not while OW is still in picture." Then his daughter called me and said he was calling police on me, and I told her he was not coming back. Well, the police never came and 4 months later I am still in the house and H has rented a room somewhere. I'm in Plan B and he is starting to realize that I mean what I said. Only you can decide when enough is enough, but be sure you don't wait so long that you lose your love for him. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly what I was saying - with far fewer words and ramblings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Only you can decide when enough is enough, but be sure you don't wait so long that you lose your love for him.

I hope you don't think this was for me. Yes, my H wouldn't leave but I never had to go to Plan B. There was no affair. We're in recovery now. I only asked for clarification on this so that others, like Honney, would know if they every found themselves in a similar situation.

Okay, in my situation, I didn't know FOR SURE whether my husband was having an affair or not. Our marriage wasn't in real great shape (though it certainly wasn't unbearable) for a while before I started to suspect that he was seeing someone else. I was busy with work, kids, parents (it's not easy being in "the sandwich generation") etc., and unfortunately, my husband/marriage pretty much became my last priority.

When the marriage started to become unbearable (he was either treating me as if I didn't exist, or going out of his way to find things to put me down for), I re-prioritized and started concentrating on trying to fix some of our problems. However, in spite of all my efforts, nothing was changing...my husband said it was too little, too late...and that there was no hope for us...he didn't love me anymore, yadda, yadda, yadda. So I asked him to leave, since (according to him) there was no hope for us. But he said he was going to wait until (such-and-such date).

At that point, I saw a lawyer to find out what my options were. The lawyer was the one who told me that it sounded to him like my husband was having an affair. Prior to that, although I somewhat suspected that may be what was going on, I was able to convince myself that I was letting my imagination get away from me. I believed he was simply tired of dealing with me and all the problems we had, and I'd waited too long to try to do anything about it. However, when my lawyer said that he's seen this same situation/behaviour over and over again, and that it is generally the result of an affair, I had to accept the fact that it wasn't my imgaination at all. My lawyer pushed me to search high and low, to try find proof of an affair.

A little over a week after I spoke to my lawyer, I found out that there had indeed been an affair (long, ugly story). However, my husband had ended it sometime between the time I spoke to my lawyer (he didn't know I had gone to see my lawyer) and the time I found out about it.

So, after all this rambling (sorry!), maybe my situation was different than most, since I didn't actually know for sure about the affair until after it had ended. I was fighting for my marriage, then giving up on it, without knowing that my husband was/had been involved with someone else. However, even though I didn't know about the affair (or what was the right/wrong thing to do at the time), I do believe that my husband decided to end it when I presented him with information about actually GETTING DIVORCED. I think that's when reality set in with him, and he realized that it wasn't really what he wanted at all...

So after he woke up, how did he get from that point to where you are now?

Yep, I'll just chime in here and say that a court order is a piece of paper. It IS enforceable, with enough time and strength. (Which is different than force!)

So is any boundary that you decide to create.

For me, it was necessary to protect my rights as a parent before I could proceed. On November 14 (a week from today), the last item is supposed to be in place.

At that point, I will be able to set aside those legal factors and initiate Plan B if I'm ready to do so.

I have a LOT of careful thinking and planning to do, and it may well take me more than a week to get that done. That's all right. I can survive another couple of weeks (or even months, if I have to) of Plan A.

Still, it's all about your willingness to enforce the rules, whatever they are. Your lawyer and your family and your friends won't do it for you.