My H is having an EA with a younger woman. He says he cannot give her up because she is his soulmate. She has all the characteristics of his ideal mate. I know that it's probably FOG talk, but just can't help wondering: can it be true love? What if after counseling, he still feels that she is his soul mate and cannot reconcile? Is that when you call it quits? Has anyone experienced this before?

aio (or is it eieio <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ), I think the same d*** thingabout whether it's true love or not.

My H has been having an A for about 4 months now. He told me 2 months into it. Was totally, absolutely gaga over her! He said she's definitely his soulmate, they connect at a higher level, they were meant to be together. He loves me, but isn't in love with me. Doesn't want to hurt me, I'm a good person, great mother. All that stuff. I'm hoping it's the fog. That's what everyone here says. Let's just keep praying that it is!!!

I will say, however, that he doesn't seem to be as aloof as he was in the beginning of A. He has made efforts to show me his good side, has done stuff around the house, been with kids more, been with me more. Is he coming around? I don't know. We separated today. We'll see how it goes.

Uhh, okay, perhaps I'm having a bad day (okay, I am, but that's over on my thread and not here).

HERE, however, I'm being *****y. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> And here's what I say:

SO WHAT??????

You're married. You found a soul mate? Tough ****. You're still married. You took that vow, stick to it.


Now that I've gotten that out of my system, please recall the way you two felt about each other when you got involved. I bet it was the same feelings, though probably expressed differently. (Soul mate is a highly overrated and trendy term that means "I want to breed like rabbits and to heck with the consequences.")

Hmm. I think it's time to take a bubble bath. I never talk like this.

Oh, and another thing about true love. Have you ever seen The Princess Bride? "Wuv... TWUE Wuv."

Yeah. Right. With Englebert Humperdink or whatever his name was? Get OVER it.

Just J: Thank you for your post. It made me laugh. Haven't done that in a while. Thanks!

My H is very adamant about this. We've had several indepth conversations about the consequences of his leaving, me and 2 D, for OW. He still insists that he cannot give her up. He lives in this fantasy world where he thinks he can continue to live in our house, spend time with the kids, be in love with the OW, and ignore me. I have asked him to move out, but he refuses to do so unless he can come home and be with the girls everyday and every weekend. I told him to 'Get real!" So, he agreed to break contact with OW so that he can stay and be with the kids. He says that there is no future for us. I am trying to implement PlanB, but he's not going for it. What can I do in this case?

We are going to counseling tomorrow. I hope that hearing it from a shrink will clear up the fog for him.

aio, DON'T count on a shrink to clear up the fog for him! Haven't read anywhere on here or in any book that they have done that for anyone. Can anyone tell me they've seen it happen for real??! If so, please oh please, pass along the name and number! We'll all hijack a plane and go enmass for the "awakening ceremony"! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now to concrete plans for you, girlfriend!
(I've only been here a few months, but have read LOTS. Hey veterans, if I've said something incorrect or that needs clarification, please feel free to correct/blast me as needed.)

1. Do you know for SURE that he has given up OW?

2. Did he send a NC letter?

3. If he won't give her up (just like my H), have you've tried Plan A for a while (I have been in Plan A for almost 3 months)?

4. Are you at the end of your rope with him there and are starting to lose love for him?

If you've done a good Plan A, time to move to Plan B. He doesn't get a choice in it. You need to check out some threads on the Plan A/Plan B forum and the Articles on Plan A/Plan B. Mortarman, star*fish and Just Learning have lots to offer. Check out Want My Wife Back's thread. Mortarman offers lots of situational Plan B fallbacks that give good examples of exactly what TO DO and what NOT TO DO.

So, get your ducks in a row. They may have to float for a while! Hope we both don't drown in the process!!! Ahoy matey!

Just J, Oh ... My ... God. My children are watching The Princess Bride at this very minute! They borrowed it from a friend. Guess I'll have to check it out, too!

Suebee: I've been in PlanA since 10/2 when he said he broke off with OW face to face. For the past 2weeks I've been asking him why he can't re-engage. I found out yesterday that he has been in phone contact with the OW every week.

I had already told him that I could not handle his indifference any longer. So, I asked him to move out on Sunday. He said he would on Tueday, but then changed his tune when I told him about the visitation.

It's Plan B time. And, if you are worried about her being his "soulmate" - don't. "Soulmates" are made, not born, and they last as long as you are both putting in the necessary effort to keep each other "soulmates". He does not have a clue on how to make that happen over the long haul, or you would already be his "soulmate", so the chances of them being "soulmates" is exactly zero. He doesn't qualify.

<small>[ November 05, 2003, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Here's a note from UH to OW (coworkers) that I found a year ago, after things were supposedly over between them...did it disgust and hurt me deeply? ABSOLUTELY!!! Did it make me give up and chuck my M, despite the reinstituted high level of anxiety that UH was still with her and was still lying to me?--NO. We're still together, and stronger than ever....

"[OW],

Don't have much time because you are going to be here soon. I'm sorry I didn't call you. I literally did not have a chance. I did want you to know that I think you are the MOST incredible woman I know. I really feel as if you are my soulmate and all I want to do is love you forever & beyond eternity. I also want you to know that I missed you something fierce this past weekend. Remember, I LOVE YOU!!!

Love always & forever,

[UH]"

Supposedly never gave it to her (which I can believe--why else would he have it in his pocket?), and there's no date, so I have no idea when it was written...found it in his coat pocket 10/24/02... and as I said, now it's 11/6/03, and we're still together. The A is over, has been for a long time, and although it was pretty brief, it was excruciatingly painful, nonetheless.

I think it's tremendously typical for the US (WS here?) to feel as though their "new" interest is their "soulmate"... many times, they feel that simply because it's a fantasy world they're living in at the time, AND oftentimes, the behavior is SO uncharacteristic of the S's personality, it's a form of justification...They MUST be soulmates if he/she can do this to someone they vowed to love and stand by forever... I also heard that "God must have brought [UH and OW] together", "I love you, but I'm not IN love with you anymore [because I think I'm in love w/OW]"....blah blah blah.... all of it was an evil twin of my H, and one helluva mid-life crisis. He was totally a different person who I'd never met before....I knew I wasn't dealing with the "real" H, but an evil facsimile of.

Hang in there.....

It's almost like these WSs take notes from the same book. Their talk of soulmates, love vs. in love, etc., seem to be like a rubberstamp from a mailorder catalogue.

This is from the 180 list:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50 percent of what you see, your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He says he cannot give her up because she is his soulmate. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They all say that.

True love is in the eye of the cake-eater. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Seriously, he'd say that about anyone meeting his ENs in her capacity. Believe very little (if anything) that comes out of the mouth of a WS. They don't know any better.

Hey, you know what? I'm gonna start charging people a quarter every time I hear the word "soulmate" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . Here is the thing about "soulmates". WS's obviously for the most part, have no relationship with God. However, the word "soulmate" by its definition implies some form of pre-ordination. Which implies a belief in God (or some other omnipotent being). But if they believe in God, they would see his view on adultry, and wouldn't be having an A. So the whole "soulmate" theory is very flawed IMHO. But don't try to tell you H about that, he'll only find a way to justify it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . Just know that his words are not unique, as unfortunatly the situation is not either. Reality will set in, it's only a matter of time. Of course you can speed this up by going into PlB IMMEDIATELY!! And if he "doesn't go for it", TOO BAD@!! It's not his decision, it's yours. Period. Take the power out of his hands. Put it in your own. Scary I know, but doing so will force the OW into a very difficult position of being the sole provider of his EN's.

MTD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by madly_truly_deeply:
<strong> Here is the thing about "soulmates". WS's obviously for the most part, have no relationship with God. However, the word "soulmate" by its definition implies some form of pre-ordination. Which implies a belief in God (or some other omnipotent being). But if they believe in God, they would see his view on adultry, and wouldn't be having an A. So the whole "soulmate" theory is very flawed IMHO.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Eh....UH always has believed in God. Unfortunately, he turned his back on God for awhile, and thought he was the pilot of his own soul, which isn't the case. He knew God's "viewpoint" of adultery, but obviously, wasn't thinking clearly. When he said, "Maybe GOD brought her (xOW) into my life...maybe WE are meant to be together...", it was SO obvious that he was trying to convince himself....

Another soulmate-busting note:

My WAH announced two months after meeting OW that this was the relationship he had been looking for all his life. Now he tells me he's not in love with her. Problem is he's forgotten to let her in on it.

But the fact that I now know they've had their ups and downs along with his comments about her has helped me to focus less on what I imagined was their perfect dream world and more on myself.

Remember, their particular grass always looks far greener to us, the BS, than it does up close.

Here's a surreal, slightly funny exchange we had along that line:

A few months ago he agreed to not have our D around OW after finding out court will not allow it until divorce is final. I suggested he should marry her to improve finances and also noted they would need to be married if overnights with D and OW were to happen. He yelled at me: "I will not marry her! You can't make me marry her!!"

Guess if he does marry her, that, like everything else, will be my fault, too!

Well, I am so confused now. I am not sure where I am exactly...or what I should do....Am I in plan A and working it out? Can you implement PlanB and be in marriage counseling?

Here's the sitch: H agreed to see MC to work on M. Prior to M/C session, H called to say he talked to MC & he was going to see MC alone to see if I/C was appropriate for him.

I read this as: he's still on fence & not ready for M/C. I was so angry that he was so hung up OW that he was willing to throw away everything we had and our 2DD's future well being for this OW. I called him on the phone to read him the riot act on how morally wrong he was being and how much our 2DDs would be effected by his abandonment. H responded and pushed my last button when he explained how our 2DDs lives would be further enriched by his new life with OW. Needless to say, when he started saying OW was going to be a good mother to my 2DDs, I hung up on him. B4 hanging up I told him to pack his bags & be gone b4 I got home. This is where I LB'd into PlanB.

I showed up at I/C session and he was there. Needless to say, the MC was surprised to see me there, as she thought she was only meeting with him. I explained the sitch and said I was there to talk about how I was going to deal with him moving out and how/what to tell the kids. She asked him why he was there. He told her he realizes he hasn't given me a fair chance to work things out. So, he's here to do that for the sake of our 2DDs future. So, long story short, the MC told him the rules required if he wanted to work on M: No contact with OW --Cold turkey. He agreed and committed to working on our new M. We setup the next appt. to start working on our new M.

Well, I know it's been only 1 1/2 days but, I can't help but wonder if I am doing the right thing. I am so confused. I want to stay and work on our M, but I don't know if I can weather the storm ahead. I can see that he is in deep withdrawal. (Supposedly he hasn't had phone contact with OW since last Wednesday. He must be very near his breaking point.) I know that while he's there, I will have to deal again with his indifference. This is draining my love bank for him.

Since my love bank for him is running on near empty, I wonder if I should ask him to move out while we are seeing MC? Maybe being away and not having his cake and being in counseling will help to speed up his withdrawal process? Everytime I see him pinning over OW, I get upset. I keep on wondering if he's going to re-nig on our agreement with MC and go back to OW.

Should I contact OW to tell her he's committed to working on our M. with MC? Since OW is only 26, I wonder if she knows what she's getting herself into. I wonder if a dose of reality would help snap her out of it and break it off with my H? Would it help if I point out to her the facts of life about child support, alimony, and the fact that he will be heavily involved our 2DDs lives, etc...?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AIO_09:
<strong> long story short, the MC told him the rules required if he wanted to work on M: No contact with OW --Cold turkey. He agreed and committed to working on our new M. We setup the next appt. to start working on our new M.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This sounds like a great counselor!! Count your blessings. Most people I've talked to find counselors who start off telling the Ws it's "OK" to "explore" new R. Your counselor is following MB priniciples.....follow MC's lead.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Well, I know it's been only 1 1/2 days but, I can't help but wonder if I am doing the right thing. I am so confused. I want to stay and work on our M, but I don't know if I can weather the storm ahead. I can see that he is in deep withdrawal. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Listen, AIO, this recovery stuff isn't for wimps!!! 1 1/2 days is nothing! Are you in this for the long haul? Is your ultimate goal to recover your M, and build a better, stronger M? If so, hen this will take time, will be the hardest thing you've ever done,but will be worth it in the end, if you and H have a better M than you've ever had. The M didn't "splinter" in a couple of days/weeks. And it won't be fixed in a couple of days. They say true, full recovery takes up to 2 years.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is draining my love bank for him.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is that all you've got?? What about what "this" is going to do to your family? Your DD's? Do you have what it takes to fight for your M OR NOT??
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wonder if I should ask him to move out while we are seeing MC? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DO NOT ask him to move out while you are seeing MC. Give this counseling the FULL, TOTAL chance it needs.
Listen, AIO, you are way ahead of many of us here! There are many whose WS's are STILL in the fog, still involved w/OP, still won't talk about MC'ing. You have a great counselor advocating for you. If that doesn't work, you may have to go Plan B in the future, but DON'T rush things!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Should I contact OW to tell her he's committed to working on our M. with MC? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! Your M IS NONE OF HER BUSINESS!!!
HOWEVER, if you find that he's still in contact w/her, THEN you might want to let her in on it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Since OW is only 26, I wonder if she knows what she's getting herself into. I wonder if a dose of reality would help snap her out of it and break it off with my H? Would it help if I point out to her the facts of life about child support, alimony, and the fact that he will be heavily involved our 2DDs lives, etc...? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sure she doesn't have any clue!! But, remember IT ISN'T ABOUT HER!!! It's NONE OF HER BUSINESS. She's not a part of your M. Right now, your H and YOu are the most important parts of this equation.

At ssome later date, if WH continues contact w/her and you end up having to implement Plan B, she'll find out all about life w/MM and BW and children! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless,

Hi- I can so relate to your pain. I am two years into recovery from my H's EA/PA with a single coworker. They both claimed they were "in love' and 'soulmates." After I found out I asked my WH to go see our pastor with me one time and my pastor told me my WH was in the worst denial about his A than he had ever seen in a person! WH actually told our pastor that he wasn't going to give OW up! Despite the fact that he still was wearing his wedding ring, going to church with me and our 3 kids every wk and eating dinner at home every night! Go figure! I only lasted in plan A a few wks before insisting he move out as I thought I was going insane! I would catch him telling her he loved her on the phone in our laundry room late at night, sneaking out to meet her etc! That drains a love bank PDQ! Have you read the book "Love must be Tough? By James Dobson? I reccomend it as it has specific guidelines to follow to help you stay firm to set boundaries with your WH. Otherwise he will keep bouncing back and forth between you and OW like a boomerang and that will cause you a world of hurt. There can be no chance of true reconciliation until he has broken it off COMPLETELY with OW and gone thru his emotional withdrawal from her. This takes time and consistent effort from him and I know my H needed help from a therapist to figure out how to end things with OW for good. Keep posting her and on the GQII forum- your marriage can be saved but prepare for a lengthy bumpy ride! take care- lifeismessy

We are (almost) 8 years in marital recovery after my H's affair with his "soulmate".

He is soooooo OVER her.

It takes time.

You are just taking baby steps right now.

Your strength and patience and faith will be tested like never before in your life.

Stay strong.

Whatever he says about her .... disregard.

My H wrote a love letter to OW, saying ... "We are peas and carrots, we fit together so well"..... because that vegetable comment was a line Forrest Gump said abouthis soulmate Jenny .... and that was the number one movie at the time.

Their love was counterfeit. He cannot fathom he did that/said that/allowed that affair to intrude on our marriage.....

OW means nothing but embarrasment to H now.

"fog" is stupid brain talk

Pep

<small>[ November 09, 2003, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Today is not a good day. I need to vent. It has been tough sitting around waiting for the fog to clear. I guess I just don't have the patience that you all here have. This sitch is eating me alive. I am totally drained, have no energy left to do anything.

I've given up...I wrote H PlanB letter today and said that I would be moving out. Told him he could have the kids until I get settled. Let him see what it's like to be in my shoes for a while. While I am working and taking care of the kids, he's out enjoying himself and cultivating new relationships.

I guess I was hoping that my letter would be a wake up call? Well, wishfull thinking on my part. Life is just not fair, is it? What to do? Follow thru with my PlanB letter? Stay and give MC a chance? Help??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

whoa, whoa, whoa here! Take a deep breath and calm down a minute.

The thing that really jumped off the page from your post is saying that he can have the children. Then he would see what it's like.

STOP! Legally speaking, I believe that if you're interested in joint or sole custody, that would be EXTREMELY detrimental for you.

Consult an attorney before you do anything about this! I made one call and got some free information over the phone. Also, check the internet for information about this.

My advice is DO NOT SEND THE LETTER. If you're at the end of your rope, Plan B is fine. Check out Plan B letters here. You need to tell your H that you love him, will be there for him.

I hope you will get some replies from some OT here. They're sooo valuable ... they've helped my spirit tremendously!

I'll pray for you!