KKMS - the Christian radio station here in the TC is hosting a series of talks. Joyce Harley (Mrs. Bill) is one of the daily talk show hosts and Dr. H is a regular guest talking about marriage and relationships every Mon. and Thurs. at 1pm.

One of the speakers in this series of talks that KKMS is hosting is Dr. Harley - he will be discussing his new book His Needs Her Needs For Parents - just released in Aug of this year.

So yesterday was "I do day" on KKMS and Dr. H was a guest on a show besides Joyce's and they took calls on parenting and marriage to prime the audience for the upcoming lecture I suppose. I tuned in late - forgot in the chaos of getting kids at school and heading out for a b-ball game.

Anyway - I tuned in to hear that Harley recomnmended that in a stepfamily where there are teenage kids who are seriously out of control and who are causing problems for the stepparent the couple separate and live apart until the kid is out of the house. I think the example he gave was where a kid cut up a bunch of the stepparents clothes.

cerrish and I talked about this last night and I have to say that my initial thought is complete disagreement. I think it's far too dangerous for the marriage and it says that second marriage families are not really families. If it was a biological child causing those kinds of problems we would say that the parents needed to put their emotions aside and figure out what to do with the kid. We wouldn't say one parent moves out. Basic POJA. No demands, no disrespect, no loss of temper, no one parent doing something the other didn't like......

Granted, I know from experience that stepfamilies are really tough. But, living in one day in and day out, I can't see how treating it as if the bonds and the commitment are any less binding is a good thing.

I dunno - I'm really in disagreement on this one - and those of you who know me well know that's a very rare thing.

Thoughts?

C

<small>[ November 07, 2003, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>

"I tuned in to hear that Harley recomnmended that in a stepfamily where there are teenage kids who are seriously out of control and who are causing problems for the stepparent the couple separate and live apart until the kid is out of the house. I think the example he gave was where a kid cut up a bunch of the stepparents clothes"


There are an awful lot of families that do not show the means in which to create a sense of control within the family home. The "normal" difficulties I face day to day, make me question what would I do if I were in this above situation?

Each of us carries imperfections in dealing with much in life, and it takes time to learn how to remedy a situation. When you are talking teenagers, you are talking about your offspring that is a young adult/or becoming a young adult. They are already imprinted in ways of life.

I would hope that I was married to someone incredibly natural at dealing with outbursts/bad behaviors that teens with problems running deep can exhibit.

They need to be loved too. And how do you get a step husband to feel like you do about your kid, especially if he/she is behaving so rottenly!

I think abuse is a big news item. And much of that is not even reported. But how often it is the non-biological father who will hurt or even kill a child that is not "behaving".

I imagine to separate or to stay together should be highly individualized. But to promote a potentially dangerous situation of parents with severely out of control teens to stay together may, in fact, be the wrong thing to do.

We need resources to deal with this stuff. And marriage building is one thing. But if safety for anyone concerned is an issue...separation may be the better idea.

I agree completely when abuse by a parent is an issue. I would reccomend separation in a heartbeat in that scenario. This was not the case here.

The case was that the parent was irritated by the child. The sep was to keep the stepparent from being annoyed, not to protect the child from harm.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cerri:
<strong> .....I'm really in disagreement on this one - and those of you who know me well know that's a very rare thing.

C </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really? Is it an urban legand that Dr. H said that if he found out Joyce was having an affair, he would not try to reconcile the marriage?

So are you talking short or long term solutions here? In the short term, separation would seem to help things settle down a bit. Obviously the clothes budget might be spared. For the long term, it isn't going to help anyone and it is going to enforce the concept that the whiney ones always get what they want. It definately won't help the marriage. Besides, who is to say these terrible teenagers are ever going to move out? Doesn't sound like the bio-parent has much control over that.

Ok, I think there are serious problems with this marriage to begin with. The couple, or at least the bio-parent is not defining boundaries or consequences for the childrens' behavior and that is negatively affecting their relationship. From what little you told of the story, it seems that the bio-parent is also not respecting the needs of the step-parent, that being intact clothes, etc. I also would think that there is no enthusiastic agreement between the married couple on how to handle these situations and consequences for negative behavior in general.


HoFS

Well, it's not exactly an urban legend. From what I've heard him say - he told Joyce when they got married some 40 years ago, that if she had an A he would leave. I really doubt that would be the reality of it - we all say that - and I suspect he knows the effects of D all too well to not at least attempt to ward that off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Besides - since from all appearances he seems to do a good job of avoiding LBers, meeting needs and being honest - so I doubt it's really an issue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Ok, the other thing - see that was my thought. There seems to be a whole lot of problems going on besides the kid. I would guess the kid acting out is a symptom - although they do do that even in stable caring homes.

But my thought was that the parents needed to come together, decide on consequences (no demands from the step- p on that one), and then enforce them.

I think that marriage is a package deal. If you are marrying for a second time and your new mate has kids, then you get the whole package. You don't get to say that you want the adult but the kids are iffy.

As bio-p's we don't get to have our spouse take the teenager and move out just because the kid is doing bad stuff. (Oh please goddess, what a beautiful thought LOL ) We don't get to opt out of being a family because we are annoyed with one of its members.

I think that second marriages are as much a covenant as first ones and that as adults we need to look out for and protect the family. And that means sticking it out when the going gets rough.

C

I would not assume anything about the situation. And you marry a man and trust that he will understand your own brood of children, and when he per chance does not, what are you going to do? You can not even begin to put yourself into his position.

But if you already have concepts/understandings and a POJA relationship, you can most likely move many more mountains than anyone else in your situation.

So, I think it will be unique to these couples experiencing difficulty like this. We need resources to work with, or we have struggle and trial and error to sweat through. It can get ugly. We need to keep love for each other as a married pair, but the testing of this situation of teenagers may cause more damage than one would like to admit who is struggling with it.

But, the couple who is with the resources, gets them and applies them with strong love and hard faith (both are needed badly with serious problematic teenagers), well, I think that you certainly will do far better working it out together with you husband. We need to support each other so much in marriage. This situation would be an enormous test. And a test that many may fail at with desperate attempts and little success.

So, if you love your spouse and you love your children/teens...two have to figure out what will be best. Two mature and learned adults need to decide this.

Separation is not the best thing in the world. But eating away at the marriage may be minimized with separation. I do not know. I would hate to be alone to do parenting. Yet many are there, alone.

You gotta love the man who will work with you to love and teach children, both bio and step. It is an enormous responsibility in todays world. Mercy!!!!


Adding on here;
Cerri, in support of your idea, Why would a couple even consider marrying at this point in time, if there were even a question re. the teenager's bad behavior? You are right in that this is also a legitimate family. The committment is to the family, the marriage, and the progress of it, all of this. It is a package deal.

It should be discussed and shared prior to this marriage. And there would be no question of dealing with separation or not.

This topic hits a nerve on the moral idea of prenuptial agreements.

Very good topic!

<small>[ November 07, 2003, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: WFLOWER ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Granted, I know from experience that stepfamilies are really tough. But, living in one day in and day out, I can't see how treating it as if the bonds and the commitment are any less binding is a good thing. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well said! It sounds as though disagreeing with the Harleys makes you uncomfortable so I'm pleased you raised your concerns and hope you share them with others at MB.

I've sometimes noticed the same attitude creeping in with regard to adopted children...in other words, treat them differently than you would if they were your "own". I don't get it: a commitment is a commitment, particularly where kids are concerned.

So I hope Dr. Harley reconsiders this stance...actually, I find it is inconsistent with his other concepts but have read elsewhere that he is always open to new ideas!

I disagree completely. In my opinion, a couple seperating "because" of an "out of control" step-child is a bad thing. Not only does this endanger the marriage, it sends a complete bad message to the kid. Bad behavior = "I get what I want" OR Bad behavior = "I can make things happen through bad behavior". If step-dad or step-mom can't handle the irritation, they need to learn how, and do so with thier S. It is our responsibility as parents to deal with these matters, WE are mature (well, some of us), kids aren't. Boundries must exist, both in marriage and in parenting. IMHO, Parents these days have placed far too much burden on children through expecting them, or even believing, they can handle situations in the same manner mature adults can. In most cases, kids can't do that. All the education in the world does not mature a teen. Guidance is what matures kids, and the lack thereof is directly responsible for your average "out-of-control" kid.

Tough love.. there's your answer. I've had some problems with my Step-son... problems that could easily have grown into serious problems. Throughout his teens, I've always made sure he is CONFIDENT of a few core things. 1) Direction 2) Choices & 3) Consequences. It works. As a parent, you don't always get what you want, but at some point you must give the child his/her own responsibility. Not following through with consequences for bad behavior is where most of us (IMHO) fail. For sure though, my marriage will not suffer because of my Step-child's behavior. I'll take every step necessary to remedy the problem, but my marriage suffering because of it will not happen.

<small>[ November 10, 2003, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: Mortimer ]</small>