How do you know when you have it?

Regarding EA's and PA's, how do you get all of the information and how do you know that you are there. What is the point of full disclosure, and how do you know that you have this?

The information is not something that we wish to throw into any conversation, but we wish to get down to the very root of all of it, and understand fully what transpired.

How do we get this? And how long of a period of time is it before you will be fully abreast on this important information.

<small>[ November 11, 2003, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: WFLOWER ]</small>

WFLOWER - That's the million dollar question!

I thought I had the whole truth the first time H and I sat down and discussed it. My gut instinct told me that I didn't...but how do you know??

After notifying OWH and speaking to him a couple of times, I realized I didn't have the entire story or truth. I sat down again with H and told him that I learned a lot of new information that he had never told me (did not tell him what I knew). At first, he (again) denied it...said OW and OWH were just trying to cause trouble. Such BULL****! Finally admitted that he didn't tell me everything and we scheduled a time to go over the A AGAIN.

I had many, many more questions the second time around. I feel like I have the story now. H voluntarily told me things that I didn't ask for or find out from OWH. I'm just going on my gut feeling again and now feel like I finally have it.

Do I know everything? Probably not. Do I feel satisfied that I know everything that I want to know about the A? For the most part I do. If I have any more questions for my H, I will not hesitate to ask him.

Seems to me that it is somewhat of an ongoing process...how can you think of all your questions at one time...right after d-day? I think of new questions almost every day at 4 months past d-day.

What does your gut tell you?
Have all of your questions (that you've thought of to-date) been answered?
Can you move forward with the A information you do have?

It's a tough one...

sss

If you were not talking and sharing feelings over a period of time, then regarding that time, you will have a vague sense of what happened during that course of time.

And what I need to know is anything and everything portraying how my spouse felt about OW and perhaps not so much the content of what they talked about but the sense of what went off course so much that this EA was allowed.

And also, there seemed to be one ton of money that went spent, and I have no idea on what. There were no receipts, but it was cash that was pulled out and unaccounted for.

When asked, he simply can not recall what it was spent on. Two hundred four hundred six hundred up to eight hundred dollars in less than two weeks, spent and unaccounted for. I believe he needs to remember this badly. I think that he has more to tell and is not wishing to expose it.

I think he still likes her, she was good to him. Very good to him. I was on the outside. She was on the inside. I was angry a lot and she was sweet to him, with all of the niceties we used to share and have!

The truth has only one requirement for me. The will of telling of it.

WF -

I think a WS remembers more than they are willing to admit.

My H is a serial cheater. The OW I caught him with is the same OW that he had when he cheated on his first wife 10+ years ago.

When he began answering my questions about the recent A, he told me details about the A with this OW from the first time around...10 years ago!! I'm not really sure why he did this except to maybe take the focus off the recent A...whatever!

Anyway, my point is that if my H can tell me details of an A that happened 10+ years ago (the details of which matched what the OWH also learned from the OW) then it would seem that your H should be able to provide purchase information for the money he spent...IMO. It's not like you are talking about $2 here and there. Sounds like a great deal of money.

One of the hardest things for me to deal with was the dishonesty and getting the truth out of my H about the A. It took me asking him to move out until he was truthful with me about the A and his feelings, commit to IC for the serial cheating and addictive behaviour, etc. When I asked him why didn't he just tell me all about the A the first time around, he gave the classic answer "I didn't want to hurt you more than I already had". Again, whatever!

I guess he just didn't really get it at first that being honest (not partially honest) was the key.

I wish you the best of luck since the whole process is so frustrating and painful.

sss

<small>[ November 12, 2003, 07:16 AM: Message edited by: stillsosad ]</small>

From my perspective, my W gave me that answer when she was lying by omission or "lack of memory" so that it was never a lie of commission.

I wouldn't believe it unless your spouse normally has a very bac memory or it was a ONS and heavey doses of alcohol were involved ie black out.

I've chimed in on a similar post to this before -

From WS perspective, yes it's entirely possible that we don't remember the "details" that your concerned with. I don't remember dates, room numbers, or any of the logistics. I'm sure I spent horrendous amounts of money - I have no idea how much. Where did it go? Obviously spent on affair activities like dinners, rooms, and gifts.

The constant pressure on your FWS to divulge information that they truly may not be able to recall is not healthy for either of you. Because you think he should be able to recall this kind of information, you automatically assume he's lying when he says he doesn't remember. My wife has actually reminded me of things about my affair that were long forgotten.

Allow me to offer you a starting point: Assume your H did everything you could possibly imagine with the OW. Assume he loved her deeply. Does this make any difference? How much more do you need to know? All of that's in the past and you need to focus on the future of your relationship with him.

I don't propose that I understand the BS pain, but I hope to offer that your H may truly not recall everything you expect him to. I don't. When I say "I don't know" or "I don't remember", I honestly mean it. Believe me, I'm not working real hard at dwelling on the memories of the OW...I'm too busy with my new relationship...my marriage!

Low

OK, this one caught my eye. I must say that to a degree, I agree with everyone here.

As a BS we don't understand how our WS's can just "forget" certain things. Those days of great pain are permanently etched into our brains. But, for the WS's, everything in their lives at that point in time was a lie. And when you make such a habit out of lying it is hard to really know what the truth is.

Now that said, speaking from personal experience. On numerous occasions my FWW would give me the "I don't remember" line knowing full well that it was a lie but she didn't want to tell me the truth.

So like SSS said - That is the million dollar question!

And I think the answer is - You will never really "know" for sure so go with your gut.

I have to say that this one also caught my attention. In my experience with my H, the "I don't remember" is his way of trying to get me to stop questioning him. He thinks that it is a way for him to avoid the topic(s). I have also learned that when he feels ready to put all his cards on the table, his memory will quickly return. My guess is that your H does not want to totally "fess up" to you. He will probably use the excuse that he does not want to hurt you. What a sport. What does he think he was doing?

I agree that you must follow your gut feelings (the same ones that were telling you that something was not right), and that is how you will know you have enough info to satisfy you. The truth is that you will never know everything. You need to sit down and make a list of things that you want answered / explained, etc. That way, you are not caught off guard and won't forget anything.

I know what you mean about you being on the outside. If the two of you want to make this work, he has to let you back on the inside. Have you seen a MC?

Pumkin