Alright - I should be cleaning the mess in my office, but this is far more interesting than filing and sorting (I need a filing and sorting coach to get me on track and keep me accountable!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )
I did talk with one man that admitted he had sex with her. Met online, paper trail was; he'd be in town for two days she'ld go to a hotel and provide "your fantasty girl" for a good time while he was around. I grabbed his cel# off W's cel. They didn't hit it off but they did have sex, for one night. Have seen her marked up back and thighs from a little "ride in the park."I'm sorry, but I have to ask - is your wife prostituing herself or is this mutual for "fun"?
I have confronted many other men. I guess with the belief that I was protecting my marriage. I dont do that any more. I think I was just befuddled; by my W holding on to what she had while decideing to get what she wanted. I now feel so foolish and used.Yeah, I know. If this was garden variety infidelity that would have been the thing to do. Confront the other men, meet needs, avoid LBers.... in order to entice her back into the marriage.
But this is not garden variety infidelity. This is full fledge out of control addiction. It's not about you. It might have been in the beginning, but it's really really not now. Feels like it is, I know. Feels like you failed, like you should have done more to protect the marriage, like it is about you. It's not. And that is one of the hardest things for spouses of addicts to internalize and make real - that is what the codependency school of thought has as its base - and it's very valuable.
Yes, I've told her that she is throwing away our marriage; stop or get out.Hummmmmm..... Ok - this is where you need work. Telling her how you feel - horrified, angry, frighened, devastated.... all ok. Telling her that she is "throwing away the marriage," although possibly true, is judgmental.
Setting out boundaries - that she needs to either stop or get out - also fine.
So the non LBibg way to do that would be to say, "This thing that you are doing is so horrifying and so painful for me that if you choose to continue then you need to leave here. I can't be part of this lifestyle."
She has denied all aspects of the acutal sex until recently and even now says:"
</font>- <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">nothing to regret about course of action
</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">don't want another man (maybe because my precondition for counseling and return to marriage bed/home is no OM's)</font></li><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">step up to the plate, if you want to, and I'll do what I want</font></li><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">needs space to heal self first[/b]
These are all typical infidelity statements. As my sig line says, you can't base your course of action on what a WS says - literally they are speaking under the influence - even in a non sexual addiction affair (which is still an addiction - but it's not the same as SA)
</font></li><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">its all under control</font></li><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm being sexually safe (i think most of the men are, shes another matter.)</font></li><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm tested STD free</font></li><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
And those are indicative of the sexual addction. The "under control" statement says it all. Every addict from alcohol to drugs to gambling to work addiction says those words.
And of course you know there is no such thing as safe sex with multiple partners. Condoms only protect against something like 7% of the STD's and not some of the very hard to detect but very destructive ones.
All aspects of this have been a constant lie, so I asked her leave and try to stop. She said she has no intention of doing anything I ask, but will move out since she needs a change.Yeah - icky - huh? Lying is what addiction is all about. I'm sorry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I wish she could have talked to me. I'm sure that would be tough to do if this is your plan, but if she could have talked to me we would still be together. I am seeing that it was my total emotional withdrawl from her when she became raging and controlling that has been the catylyst for Ws aloneness.Maybe. Hard to say. I think that the unhappiness in her childhood and then the marriage pushed her to addictive actions - it could have been sex or drugs or some other choice. I suspect the abuse in her childhood created a leaning towards sex as the addiction of choice, but it could have gone any number of ways. And, it's not your fault. You did not cause this.
She must have banked all her need on me and when I could'nt do it all she saw me as unloving, would'nt do it. Some truth?. LBustYeah, that would be reason for being horribly unhappy in a marriage - but not any kind of excuse for acting out sexually. But I don't think you can apply the MB infidelity reasoning to this scenario.
See the MB model for the reasons behind infidelity is an affair as an addiction to another person. It's not really infidelity as a sexual addiction. So the standard model of meeting needs and avoiding LBers to entice the WS back into the marriage isn't going to work.
That's not the same as saying that MB in general won't work PlA and PlB are both tools for use with addiction as well as infidelity - the thing that changes is the need to understand addictions are not about unmet needs.
Harley says that he cannot restore a marriage while addictions are actively going on (and as much as people like to throw that statement around here on the boards - the fact that it applies to anger and to infidelity in general seems to get overlooked). The operative word there is
restore. There is nothing anyone can do to restore their marriage while there is an affair, an addiction an anger or control problem. Those things need to be addressed and eliminated or in recovery before restoration can begin. Never has Harley said that the MB strategies can't be used to address those things in order to get to restoration.
THAT'S WHAT PLAN A AND PLAN B ARE ALL ABOUT.
PlA is not and never has been a way to restore a marriage. It is a negotiating strategy to end an affair or other marital problem. As such there are things that you do as a matter of course.
Eliminate your own love busters - make the marriage safe for your mate.
Expose the affair and the addiction or anger problem. Get it out of the secret darkness that keeps you isolated and shame bound and into the light of day. Get support for you and your marriage. If there is a substance or other addictive issue consider an intervention.
Confront your spouse with what you know, how you know it and how you feel about it.
And finally, attempt to meet needs. Often, you won't be allowed to do so, particularly the intimate ones, but you can meet DS, FC, FS and sometimes conversation, RC, and non physical affection.
All of those are a valid course of action for any marital problem. When the problem is an addiction beyond an affair you need to know that meeting needs is not going to do the trick, although you should do what you can. Confronting and exposing might push the addict toward recognizing and taking responsibility for the fact that they are powerless over the addiction, but they might not.
When you have done those things then you need to protect yourself and the feelings you have for your spouse from further hits and you need to be in Plan B.
Harley talks too about spouses who are very dangerous to your ability to have a safe and happy life. Your wife might be one of those, I don't know. But even in those cases the strategy of PlA and PlB is used.
I do know that people can and do change, I've seen incredible transformations when they get that they need to take that step for themselves. Getting to that point requires an incredible amount of courage on your part - and often that means PlB.
Both happier there is not a lot of tension.How much do they know about her activities?
Perhaps the NC it what it takes for me not to LBust.Probably. In the situation you find yourself it would take superhuman effort to get through the day with out LBing.
So she doesn't care for me right now, and there is not a lot to talk about that doesn't cause pain. She won't talk about her needs. Says that would be controlling me.No she doesn't care for you right now. I would suggest that she is incapable of doing so as long as she is acting out. I suspect she doesn't want to look at her own needs, that would make her vulnerable and that's a very scary place to be.
What have you read, besides Carnes' site, about SA?
And yes, I think you need to be in PlB - PlA is not going to do anymore for you and it will push you over the edge in terms of energy and desire to save your marriage.
C
