Sorry about how long this is, but I need serious help. Contrary to my username, she did it again. Here's our story in as best a nutshell as I can give:

Fall 2000 - while I'm in graduate school, I find out she's been talking on the phone with a guy she met at her national guard camp. We'd been married 3 years at this point. Once I find out, she initially promises to stop talking to him, but can't. The EA on the phone continues, culminating with her visiting him for a weekend in January of 2001. While she was gone, I found out from a friend where she was, called his house, and told her we were done. She was already on a plane coming home, and the OM tried to talk to me about how much she loved me, how much of a mistake it was, etc. When she got home, she was very emotional, crying, trying to get me to stay. I stayed initially, moved out for a while, then moved back home for good 3 months later.

Everything was premised on the fact that there was NOT a PA with this guy. This was huge to me -she is the only one I've ever been with, and her with me (we were HS sweethearts). [MORE TO FOLLOW - THIS IS THE POINT OF THIS POST.] So after some counseling, we were able to reconcile.

Fast forward to May 2002 - shortly after I graduated from school, her guilty conscience gets the best of her, and she admits PA/SF while she was visiting him. She claims it only happened twice; that he came on to her, and out of a sense of obligation, she had SF with him, but very brief, nothing emotional. Second time, he started SF with her, but she stopped him before his big "O" out of sense of guilt. Again, I was crushed (kind of like another D-Day for me), and it took time to resolve this. But I got to the point where I had rationalized in my mind what had happened, that she really didn't want SF with him, but felt obligated, taken advantage of, etc.

Flash forward to last weekend - we attend our first marriage seminar/retreat weekend ("A Weekend to Remember", put on by Family Life and encouraged by our church). It was great - we had great time together, away from our two boys. On the drive home (3+ hours), for some reason, she brings up the entire period of her affair. For some reason, I feel God compelled me to ask whether OM had ever visited our hometown to see her. She immediately breaks down, says Yes, and proceeds to tell me that SF occurred at least a dozen times, if not more. And everything that is included in SF - she received and gave oral, no protection (she previously told me there was protection), etc. How it was good for her, given the place in time she was with her life. (Sorry if too graphic).

So now, here I am again, feeling like I'm at another D-Day. I'm crushed. Can't hardly work. Sitting at my computer at work lamenting my life.

Had I known the entire truth (or even part of it) when she first came home to me after her "trip," I seriously doubt I would have stayed. I don't think I could have. We'd be divorced, no question. But now, because it's almost 3 years after the fact, I feel like I've accepted it without knowing what I've accepted, and that I just have to deal with it without any chances in my demeanor, etc. She's tried to explain the "emotional state" she was in, etc. - which I don't need to hear. My rationalized thought process about how she really didn't want SF, how he came on to her and she felt obligated, etc., is totally out the window. Now, it was sex and emotions, all wrapped up in one.

Help. I don't know what else to say. I came home from the marriage conference renewing my faith in God and her, and with one sentence, it's all gone (well, not the faith in God, but her). I don't know what to do.

Any help is appreciated.

hurt

If you just need to vent, feel free. I to am going thru the mess that is affair. Only I am now trying to varify whether or not the other women may have ended up pregnant. My husband , had a affair, 4 months ago, realized his stupidity, and has not seen or spoke to her since. Unfortuanitly, I am now in the position of insisting he locate her, by phone only, and check if she got pregnant, as he didn't use protection, and didn't pull out either. graphic yes,but the truth of the matter. Then I hear if by chance she did, the due date would be on our upcoming 2 year anniversary. So i am praying to god she isn't and we can put this to rest......... If you haven't done so all ready, and really want to salvage your marriage, do the ? airs, on the site. They seem to be helping us. If not to deal with it, to prevent it from happening again. I have also went and got every book the good dr. has wrote, and am reading those. I am not one to give advice, as I just found out last week. But my grandmother left me with this ? before she past. When things go bad....., if you could erase that one problem, would he be the man you still want in your life........ Maybeyou could think aout that in regards to your wife. I have to believe these things with Jehovahs help, can be worked through, and the love restored.

Yeah this is fresh for you. You just found out, it may just as well happened yesterday as far as you are concerned. The problem is, your recovery for the last couple of years, given that she was lying to you, wasn't recovery. The process has to start all over again, if you decide that's even what you want. Does she know what you just posted about not taking her back if you knew then what you know now? You should tell this if not. The fact is, you really have no reason to trust her, she's lied to you for all this time. In order for recovery to be real there has to be complete honosty for both spouses. You need to decide what you want to do. If remaining married is your choice, you need to let her know how her lies have affected you, and what must be done by both of you for real recovery to begin. That included RH(radical honesty), no LB's (that means by you too) and following the POJA (policy of joint agreement). Read everything on this site if you haven't. Get SAA (surviving an affair) and HNHR (his needs her needs). I also recommend getting professional help. You can seek out Cerri here on the JFO board. Or you can go to GQII and ask some of the veterans for advice. I personally recommend Cerri, as she is a professional and the rest of us are ametuers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . She also has a website: www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com.


MTD

I think you gave a good bit of your answer in your post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Had I known the entire truth (or even part of it) when she first came home to me after her "trip," I seriously doubt I would have stayed. I don't think I could have. We'd be divorced, no question.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're probably right about that. And not she was right in any way to hold that info from you, you might need to look at it from the point of what you said above.

Yes, it's been a good while since all this happened. I don't know your whole story, but you seem to convey that the A is long over and that your relationship is exclusive now.

I would advise you to focus on what really matters here. I'm in no way saying that this info isn't important and that you shouldn't process it in your own way....Lord knows I've had to do that several times this year, but just because you know these details now doesn't really change anything does it?

Look at it this way...she's come clean with you. Use this as an opportunity to get any other questions you might wonder about answered (if that's what you want) and have the slate wiped completely clean between the two of you.

If you just focus on the fact that she lied to you and has been keeping the truth (yes, it's a big deal, I know) from you, then you're going to miss a huge opportunity.
Make your focus the fact that she's no longer able to hold these things from you. I think that's called progress. Nobody said this whole process was quick and easy. It can take years as you're finding out.

I can't tell you exactly what to do, but don't do anything rash or quick. Process this and decide if it all really makes a difference. You've been living with her for these last few years not knowing the whole truth. She's probably been scared that you'd follow through and leave her if you knew everything (and her fears may be grounded from the way you're talking). Give her the chance to completely bare her soul to you. Things may move to a level that you've never known before.

The worst thing you can do is to act on your emotions. If you do decide for or against your marriage it should be after some very careful and deliberate thoughts with regards to her honesty and your trust (or lack of it) in her, and this can't happen if your emotional side is controlling you most of the time. Dr Harley has recommended that BS's take anti-D's to help them control their emotional turmoil and thus make it more likely to make wise decisions with regards to their marriages. I took them some years ago and they helped me save my sanity and make good decisions with regards to my previous marriage. Remember that whether or not your marriage survives, you should make your personal recovery your number one priority so that you can indeed move on with your life.

I would recommend doing a DNA paternity test to confirm that you are the biological father of your children as well as doing STDs tests.

Hello Hurt.I know somewhat how you feel I happen to be on the same blind out of control ROllercoaster your on.thanks for sharing it.Its helps to know there is still people in this world with high standard of morals.I have a little 20 month old little girl its wonderful to know that morals are valued still today.Good luck

Hurt,

I think you have been given some very good advice. Don't act on your fresh feelings right now. But, I do think you have something wrong. Those three years since her A, do NOT mean you have to accept this information now. You forgave what you knew, but NOT what happened. So in your consideration, it is as if the A just ended, and the issue is can you deal with what you know NOW.

Your W is to be commended for telling you FINALLY, but that does not give her a free pass. The basic philosophy of this site is "radical honesty". That coupled with the Policy of Joint Agreement, POJA, are the backbone of implementing Harley's four rules of marriage. See the bookmarks at the end of Coffeeman's signature lines for more on them.

So given this is like you just found out about the A, let's sort of consider some time schedules. It will take about 6 months or more for you to begin to recover from this, it will very likely take 2 years from now for the marriage to completely heal, IF you both work on it.

Given this sort of time scale the decision to divorce her ought to be made over a similar time scale. Interestingly, Harley also believes that even a Divorce should be subject to the POJA process.

So this leads to a few questions. How is your W behaving now? Does she comprehend what she has done to you and your trust in her? Does she comprehend that by not being honest with you that she as in affect subjected you to yet another D-day? Does she offer any ideas for maintaining and improving this marriage?

Before this latest revelation were you happy in your marriage? Were there things you felt needed to be improved? Did you sense that she was holding back from you emotionally? Why would her having sex more, be a bigger problem than she doing it twice with him? Why would you have ever believed that it was only two times? Is the issue the sex, or is it trust?

These last few questions are not meant to accuse you of anything, and I posted them because I wanted to point something out to you. For those of us that have read this site for a long time, your W's revelations to you are NOT a surprise. In A's people are not found to exhibit much restraint or consideration for their spouse or marriage. So that fact that it wasn't two times and that he came to your town to see her ARE NOT big surprises to us. It is almost normal.

I realize this is NOT normal to you, but I want you to understand that while in the "fog" of the affair, restraint and good decision making ARE NOT OFTEN FOUND. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I asked the sex frequency question because once a PA starts it has started and the number of times become less relavent. What is relavent NOW is the honesty factor and the level of trust that has been destroyed.

That trust must be rebuilt be a sustained period of actions being consistent with words.

Finally, I think you will need some time to focus on what is really the big issue NOW. Is it honesty, is it trust, is it really more times with OM? Identify your major issues and focus on addressing them.

Please keep posting, the people here will help you as much as they can. Do follow Coffeeman's advice, don't make a hasty decision. Now is the time for considerable introspection on your part, alot of reflection, and ALOT of communications with your W.

Don't lie to her, be honest but don't love bust, LB, her. There is nothing gained by doing that. My guess is her guilt is punishing her more than you can ever do.

So take your time, post, read, learn, talk.

God Bless,

JL

Hurt: Listen to JL - he is one of the wisest posters around. One more thing about trust: You may not believe it, but her being honest with you now is a huge piece of evidence that you can recover, and rebuild trust. She knew it would hurt you, but she stopped "protecting" you with lies. Why? Because she wanted to hurt you? I doubt it. Probably because she was beginning to understand, or feel intuitively, that her dishonesty was keeping you apart. She was willing to risk a LOT for the sake of honesty with you - for eliminating the barriers she had erected. That was an act of courage, and probably the most dramatic piece of evidence you have of her willingness to change. Willingness does not EQUAL change, but it is a first step.

I would like to recommend some tools to you that helped us. I especially recomend Torn Asunder, which gives a couple of examples of how un-revealed affairs, and the emotional barriers that caused, wrecked some marriages: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. To recover, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. Read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity Then buy and read “Surviving an Affair”, by Willard Harley, (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them.

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity Read it while you wait for your copy of "Surviving an Affair" to arrive in the mail. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Thanks so much to everyone for your replies. (Just a note - I'm not on the internet at night - we don't have it at home - so any responses from me are during working hours). I do want to address some questions that were raised, to maybe shed some more light on our situation.

JustLearning said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How is your W behaving now? Does she comprehend what she has done to you and your trust in her? Does she comprehend that by not being honest with you that she as in affect subjected you to yet another D-day? Does she offer any ideas for maintaining and improving this marriage? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is very remorseful right now, both for what she did and for keeping it from me for so long. She understands that we're kind of back to square one with trust - we had done so well in the past year - but now, it's gone. Not that I think she'll have another A - but it's the trust in knowing she's doing things in the best interest of our marriage, telling the truth, etc. Although she's not a MB member or anything, I've explained what a D-Day is, and she understands that this is another D-Day for me, and that it will take time for me to heal from it. She's been supportive. As far as improving our marriage, it was her who brought up in the first place attending a marriage conference last weekend, and her who now, more than ever, wants to implement those principles into our marriage. I am the more spiritually-driven member of our marriage, but I do give her credit for where she's at spiritually now.

JustLearning also said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Before this latest revelation were you happy in your marriage? Were there things you felt needed to be improved? Did you sense that she was holding back from you emotionally? Why would her having sex more, be a bigger problem than she doing it twice with him? Why would you have ever believed that it was only two times? Is the issue the sex, or is it trust? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We were doing pretty well, normal ups and downs of marriage I guess. We definitely needed to improve our communication, among other things, which is in part why we went to the marriage conference. I don't think she was holding back from me.

About her having more sex with him - the problem I have is that she told me that the two times were "almost" like rape (not to make light of it). The first time, she did out of a sense of obligation or owing him something, because he paid for her plane ticket, everything, while she visited him. The second time, the next day, it started for like a minute, but she stopped him and said no, out of a sense of guilt, knowing the A was over and that she couldn't do that. She told me that her trip to see him was "spontaneous" - he just called, said I bought you a plane ticket, come and see me. Well, that's not the truth - they had already seen each other, made love to each other at least 3 times, and then a month later she goes to his hometown and does the same thing. I'm kind of rambling - but the problem I have with "more" sex is that the premise underlying what I knew before (that she did it out of "obligation") is gone - she wanted it herself.

I guess I believed it was only 2 times, because it's almost like I was in a "fog" myself. I believed her over and over again, while it was going on, that she would stop talking to him on the phone. You see, all I knew at the time was that this was an EA accomplished by numerous phone calls, but I was told (and naively believed) that they never were together physically. Every time she said she'd stop talking to him, I'd believe her, take her back with open arms, only to come home early from school and walk in on a conversation. And remember - I went almost a year and a half without knowing of the physical side of it - she PROMISED me, even months later, that nothing physical had happened. The physical thing is a big deal for me - I've never been with anyone else, and she never had either until this guy (we were HS sweethearts). So the whole world of risks that was opened up by it scares the crap out of me.


I know I've rambled some, but what I said came from the heart. It's going to take time, I understand, and I promise I'm not leaving her - I couldn't do that now. It's just that the "triggers" often make me break down and cry. (Example: Ever seen the movie "Enemy of the State?" Remember the scene where the senator and his aide have sex together in a motel room, videotaped by Will Smith and Gene Hackman? Well, I saw that last night, not even knowing the scene was in the movie - and it created this mental picture of my wife doing that with her OM - and I couldn't move for like an hour. I just sat there doing and saying nothing.)

Thanks again for the support.
hurt

PS - Look at my signature line - I haven't even changed it yet - it says "PA 1/2001" - well, now there's a PA in 12/2000 that needs to be added. I guess I'm scared I'll be adding to the list my whole life.

I so feel for you....I found out the affair my husband had that was suppose to have been they met twice, actually had been accuring over the last year, since oct02. They still only had sex once, but he had been in her twice, and had oral sex a few times. It seems they met, at his request first time, then she would call him ever month or so.....the worst of it, we found out yesterday that she is indeed pregnant, now to wait for the paternity test results, he got her to reluctantly agree to do a prenatal, test, this month or next....I hate this, where do you start to pick up the pieces?

Hurt,

I hope you understand that my questions were sort of fact finding, they were not a condemnation of your feelings. But, I wanted to start to zero in on the things you are dealing with.

You now have movies in your head about W and OM.

You wonder if OM was better.

You feel that the specialness of being the "only one is gone".

You wonder if there is ever another tough time will your W do this again.

You wonder if she really loves you or is just there out of guilt.

You wonder what she is thinking about you and other men in general.

Your faith in her is shot.

How am I doing?? Did I get a few of them right?

It may be of some comfort to understand that all of the items listed are very common for the betrayed spouse to feel. It will be of no comfort to hear that things like the images in your head take a long time to go away. And I think that if you do feel these things you need to give voice to them, and examine them in your own mind and with your W.

There are as I am sure you now know, no quick fixes. Are you comfortable that you understand why she had the A?? Has she made any suggestions for addressing what this has done to you? Probably not unless you have articulated to her a list such I posted here. If you do have such a list in your mind, talk with her about it.

I think counseling would also help you and perhaps your W in dealing with this. I think everyone here recognizes that this revelation about the depth, the deception, and time of this affair makes it seem as if you just found out. She may know this because you told her, but do you feel she "understands" this?

Can you comment on specific things she has tried to do to address this? Are you comfortable with the level of knowledge you have about the nature of the sexual acts? Do you need more information from her, or do you need her to help you process the information you do have?

I am asking you these questions because I want you to consider allowing her to help you, but she can only help you IF you give her clear and rather concise items to address. Some of the more general aspects of your feelings of betrayal and insecurity you will have to address yourself.

I would recommend that you buy Surviving an Affair by Harley and there is another book that is apparently very good in addressing recovery. I cannot think of the name of it or the author but someone will come along and mention it I am sure. I suspect it would be helpful if BOTH of you read these books and discuss them. The sad reality is that you cannot undo what has been done. But, you both can learn from it, grow from it, and develop a deeper relationship that offers you both comfort and security. So if you do get the books and you both read them, focus on the future and use the lessons of the past as a basis.

I am sure others will offer you more ideas. Hang in there and do talk more with your W. She may benefit from reading and perhaps posting here as well. Your call on that one.

God Bless,

JL

"Torn Asunder". It's in my sig line link (and the quote).

Unless you are referring to "Not Just Friends" by Glass. I have also heard it is good, but have not read it. It's the only book on affairs that I have heard Harley say good things about outside his own.

<small>[ November 12, 2003, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Thanks again, everyone, for your kind words.

To respond to a couple of things -
JustLearning asked:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How am I doing?? Did I get a few of them right? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd say that you got all 7 of them right. To add a few more to the list:

Why didn't she just leave, if she was in a place where she obviously didn't want me anymore?

Is she still with me just because we had a child at the time (and now we have 2)?

Did she get pregnant? Or an STD? (Sorry to quote something said by christina earlier, but he didn't use protection, and she doesn't remember if he "pulled out" or not, which means to me that he didn't.) She pretty much ignored me when I asked these questions - only answered by saying something like "What, do you think I had an abortion or something?" Plus, about 6 months ago, I had some "thing" show up on my genitals, which went away after about 2 weeks or so.

Did she understand the risks of being with a guy that she barely knew? Did she care?


JustLearning also said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think everyone here recognizes that this revelation about the depth, the deception, and time of this affair makes it seem as if you just found out. She may know this because you told her, but do you feel she "understands" this?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I don't think she "understands." In her mind, I think she believes that it should take like a day or two to get over it, and then all should be back to normal. As you said, everyone here recognizes that it's like I haven't recovered at all, and now, after almost 3 years, I get to start the process all over again.


JustLearning said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you comment on specific things she has tried to do to address this? Are you comfortable with the level of knowledge you have about the nature of the sexual acts? Do you need more information from her, or do you need her to help you process the information you do have? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She hasn't done much to address this. She is NOT forthcoming with information - rather, I have to ask very specific questions to get anything out of her. I am comfortable with what I know about the acts, in that there's nothing else she could tell me that could hurt any worse. Maybe I'm kind of a prude, but there are different sexual "acts" that mean different things to me [WARNING: about to get graphic]. For example, quick, slam-bam-thank-you-m'am sex is entirely different than sex which includes oral, kissing, hugging, I love you's, etc. The different acts involve the same results, but there's a higher level of intimacy, closeness, oneness with the second version than the first. Before this weekend, I was under the impression it was the first version, and now know it was the second.

I really don't need anything else from her, other than validation when I'm hurting, repeated and continuous acknowledgement that what she did was wrong, and understanding and time. I DON'T need her re-hashing the "why" (our marriage was bad, I wanted out of the state we were in, we were so young, blah, blah, blah). I think I need the security and reassurance from her that it won't happen again, despite the nearly 3 years of lies.

JL - Thanks again for your intuitive posts. It's really great to have those types of questions asked, because I think it focuses me on where I need to be in this process, rather than dwelling on things that can't be undone. Thanks to everyone here for your help.

hurt

hurtingonceneveragain,
Our stories have alot of similarities. Scroll down to see my synopsis in my signature line.

I like you am really facing a DDay2. My W finally told me of the PA portion of the A in late summer. Prior to that it was "just" an EA.

My W says she understands that I'm back close to square one but her actions speak louder than words. Her actions, responses and even some of her words tell me that she expects me to "get over it." To her the P portion of the A occurred 2 years ago and the A has been over for 18 months. She is past it and over him but that hasn't seemed to help me. I still think of all the lies that made me crazy as a loon. She called me insanely jealous. "We're just good friends."

If we want to look at the posative, your wife wasn't forced into making the last revelation. Whether by guilt or wanting to clear the air so that intimacy could return, she did it. My W never revealed anything unless I had evidence to put in front of her. Even her last revelation was "forced" because I knew indirectly that it had been P from a taped conversation between her and OM. She finally saw that recovery had no way of having a "snow balls chance in southern cal" unless she admitted it. Even then she said it was only one time although they had the oppurtunity for more.

I can relate to Just Learning's comment.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Why would you have ever believed that it was only two times? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well now I'm rambling and venting and I responded to offer help to you.

Listen to Just Learning. He had alot of good advice for me when I first found MB in May '02

Your fellow rambler,
cwmac

Bump to see if JL or anyone else had comments to my latest post.

Thanks -
hurt

Hurt,

I do have a few thoughts. My first one is that you and your W need to be tested for STD's. You comment about seeing something abnormal and it going away is very typical of some STD's. Now that you know the extent of their interaction, GET TESTED.

Next you said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She hasn't done much to address this. She is NOT forthcoming with information - rather, I have to ask very specific questions to get anything out of her. I am comfortable with what I know about the acts, in that there's nothing else she could tell me that could hurt any worse. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here is the deal as I see it. The ONLY thing good to come out of an affair is KNOWLEDGE. KNOWLEDGE that can be used to make yourself better, and your marriage better. I would like to suggest that yo approach your W with this thought. Otherwise, her A will ly there festering in your marriage. You two need to take it (the A) out, hold it up to the light and examine it carefully TOGETHER. You both need to decide what each of you have learned, and discuss how you will use this KNOWLEDGE to improve yourselves and more specifically your marriage.

The purpose of this examination is NOT to go back to the A, or to beat her up with it. It is to improve your marriage. Many and I do mean many posters here have commented "that while they hope never to go through the pain, the guilt, depression caused by the A, the recovery from the A has made their marriage and their life much better."

You and your W need to be among those posters and you will not be if she does not help, she does not open up, and the two of you examine this phenomena together. Tell her these things and let her think about it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really don't need anything else from her, other than validation when I'm hurting, repeated and continuous acknowledgement that what she did was wrong, and understanding and time. I DON'T need her re-hashing the "why" (our marriage was bad, I wanted out of the state we were in, we were so young, blah, blah, blah). I think I need the security and reassurance from her that it won't happen again, despite the nearly 3 years of lies.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah!, now you know why I wrote the paragraph above. I believe you are incorrect, you DO need the "why" as determined by the both of you. Why? Because you do want security and reassurance from her that it won't happen again after 3 years of lies.

She does need to know that you won't beat her up about this, but her validating your feelings would really help. I believe as you examine this affair, and learn from it, she will see that you need validation in many areas as does she. That is what happens in a good marriage.

Hurting, TALK, TALK, and then LEARN, LEARN and do it together. Do your best to help her understand that if the two of you don't learn from this (not just I won't do it again) the pain will have been wasted.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL for the comments - I sincerely appreciate everything you have to say.

I have one question, regarding this comment:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You comment about seeing something abnormal and it going away is very typical of some STD's. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm curious, but since this has happened, we've had another child together (contrary to a previous post, I'm quite confident he's my child -her affair was no where near the time frame we became pregnant, and he looks just like his older brother). My question is, if either she or I do have an STD, is the disease always passed on to the child? If so, what would the signs be? If not, why not?

I'm not up-to-speed on this issue, so any info would help.

Thanks again to everyone.
hurt

Hurt,

I know some can, but I am not qualified to answer your question. This is something a Doc should address. I would guess that the proper approach would be to get tested, or both of you get tested. If the answer is negative, then that is it. If the answer is NOT negative, then enquire of the Doc, if your second child should be tested.

I would think this is not something you want to fool around with. Even if OM used condoms, they are only >95% effective, maybe higher, but that is for sperm. For virus' which are much smaller they are not great, but better than nothing.

So if you two haven't been tested do it. Then you will know what to do about your child.

I am sure your W is NOT going to be happy when you mention STD tests, but it is something you two should do.

Good luck and God Bless,

JL

Hurt,
JL said...........
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am sure your W is NOT going to be happy when you mention STD tests, but it is something you two should do.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If she is anything like my W that is the understatement of the year.