Ok guys, need advice here..been in PlanB for 5 months now...we do work together, so I do have to have contact with him on that basis. But lately he has been calling me just to "talk". Small talk, how his physical went, how the drive is(he loves his cell phone) give the kids a hug for me, etc....Last week was our daughters' 16th BD, she wanted to invite him to her dinner, and I said ok. After dinner, all the kids left and we were payng the bill, he reached over and kissed me! A hug and a kiss on the lips! I did write him an email the next day and told him that I knew his affair was still going on, and I did not want him to kiss me anymore. He said ok. So, when do you know if you should start having contact again?? Or by having any contact other than work related, am I sabotaging Plan B? And here is the other thing that really has me concerned. When he kissed me, I didn't feel anything....just wondering what his motives were....have I lost my feelings for him??? I do know the farther I get into this, the less I think about him in my life again and the more planning I do without him being involved....I was pretty close to not having any love left for him when I went to Plan B, now I am secong guessing whether I should even go there with him again if he ever ended it with her and wanted his marriage back. Do I tell him this?? Or do I wait and see what happens?? <P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

Susan,<P>Great question... <P>One with no answer in the "book"... <P>When you send your spouse a Plan B letter... there is nothing in it about "time frames"... nothing in it to say that your love for your spouse may die... This is probably deliberate since everyone changes their attitudes over time. The love may never die... it could die in a few weeks...<P>The waywards don't know (necessarily) about the consequences of Plan B... It's almost a bit unfair to them... especilly if we have the expectations that their emotional needs willnot be met by the OP.<P>To that end... I myself am not sure either...<BR>I told you earlier I would be following your story... for just such reasons...<P>My <B>gut feeling</B> (can of course be wrong...) is that you <B><I>can</I></B> send him a followup letter... and in the most NON-love busting way let him know that your love for him is near comatose... <B>but</B>... here's the hard part... you need to make your Plan B even more 'firm'! <B>No contact</B>! No smalltalk... no paying any bill... no kissing... no nothing...<P>This 'contradiction' in Plan B is so hard to understand for everyone... I almost wish there was just an entire book called "Plan B" from the Harley's. Subtitle the book... "independence from the wayward" vs. "hoping OP can't meet emotional needs"...<P>---------------<P>He may come back(if he really gives up the OW)... and if he does so... when your love for him has drained... <B>he'll</B> have to work extra hard at rekindling anything... or basically start off romancing you like a new lover.<P>Now... if you keep up the smalltalk... etc. he will just be 'having his cake and eating too'... and he'll be stringing you along <B>your hopes</B>... If you stop <B>all</B> contact... he can more clearly see the consequences... the unfulfilled emotional needs... and maybe a reminder letter won't be that bad.<P>This again is just my gut reaction...<BR>I would love to hear from others on this as well.<BR>If I'm blowing smoke... tell me...<BR>I never said I know it all (especially to my beloved.)<P>Prayers to you Susan...<P>Jim

Jim, <P>You are certainly right, another chapter should be added to SAA just to discuss Plan B and elaborate on the Plan. I guess my concern is that if I do not communicate with him now that he is perhaps getting ready to try to recommit (though I do not know that) that he may feel I have given up. I also want to remain somewhat friends for the kids sake. It is so difficult to read the signals. I guess if you take Dr. H words literally, you should have absolutely NO contact at all until they come to you, say it is over and want to reconcile. But do you jump back in immediately? How do you trust that when things get difficult that they will not go back to OW? How much forgiveness is too much, too soon?? I may call Dr. Steve for a consult to get his view, perhaps it would be clearer to me. Anyone out there consulted with Dr. Steve on this and would they mind sharing??<P>------------------<BR>Susan<P><BR>

Hi Sue,<P>Some very good questions. I entered into an 'informal' Plan B on Dec 1, when H decided he was moving 200 miles away to be closer to OW. At the time he left, I told him that I wanted "no contact". He did not honor my request and weaseled his way back in, spending three evenings with me a week later. Then, last week he called me at work every day to "chitchat". Then yesterday, I get a Christmas card with a message about how he thinks about me and misses me.<P>I have not contacted him once. This is so very hard because few people at work know what I am going through. So, I cannot tell our operators to not transfer his calls to me.<P>I will be working on my Plan B letter over the holidays. Although, I'm not so sure it will change anything as I was emphatic to his face about no contact. And, that didn't make any difference.<P>Like you, I am beginning to become numb.

I don't want to intrude Susan...<P>But <B>sidney</B>...<BR>Did you check out the previous Plan B posts I suggested?...<A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/009414.html" TARGET=_blank>Sample Plan B letter (see Chris' reply)</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010065.html" TARGET=_blank>Sample Plan B letter (from PLEASE HELP)</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010844.html" TARGET=_blank>Sample Plan B letter (from Rutger)</A><P>Sharing some of the ideas of Plan B letters could be useful... I will when I complete my draft in late January... <P>Just keep it short on the phone... "...sorry gotta go..." kind of replies.<P>Jim

Thanks, very much Jim. Yes, I looked at the sample letters when you so graciously posted them earlier. I will use some of what has been written. And, I'm looking forward to reading your's. I'm sure it will be a classic!<P>That's a very good idea about keeping the calls brief. Although part of me wants to know what's going on with him, as I still worry about him. I know, I know, I should stop doing that. I guess old habits die hard.<P>Found out he called again today while I was at lunch. With any luck, I will be able to slip out this afternoon before he calls back.<P>I feel like a fugitive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!