I don't know if seeing an IC is the right thing to do. Both times i've been, i started an AO w/hubby.

No screaming, (so its not my typical outburst!) but a lot of harsh words in defense of what he's doing to me.

Today
He gets in from work. Asks how my day went.

(i talked to my pastor, my counselor and a good friend, most of who said i am 'hyperfocusing' on his affair-but this is since i don't have all the answers yet. see info on A?
and i have been crying most of today.)

I say 'pretty rotten. what you are doing to me hurts a lot.'

h says 'don't you think i'm hurt by this too'

I cannot hold back anymore (but i do wait until we are away from kids) I say 'I know you have a girlfriend'

he doesn't say anything

so I say, 'i have been trying to work on our marriage but its difficult to do when there is a third party involved'

he says 'i don't have a girlfriend since there would have to be a commitment'

i blew off a little steam then and said i would just go see her. he said how, so i told him that i had checked his cell phone bills and found calls to somebody.

he was irate at this. said i was being dishonest by checking his phone. so, i did follow up on one of the numbers but its not a lead. I still have 2 to check but i'm not sure if i really need/want to.

with the very long pause and saying there is no commitment, is he admitting something here?

he also told me tonight that he doesn't love me anymore. (been saying that he doesn't hate me for weeks now.) i told him that i was making changes and willing to make more. he said that he noticed the changes but i couldn't change enough since i wouldn't be the person that he fell in love with years ago. so i told him that he must have never loved me since i am still me. (i guess that is kind of confusing but that is how some of our conversations go.)

so, h is telling me that he doesn't love me anymore but if i make positive changes i won't be the person he did love?

is this typical of a ws to confuse the bs over and over?

one more note.

I asked him to move out again last Sunday. told him i needed some space. in quite a few words, he said no. but he tells me again that he still wants a divorce

most of the afternoon i tried to talk but get no real answers.
asked him where he is going all the time.
'nowhere, maybe get coffee, donuts, or see the guys, but usually just driving around pondering things'
asked him why he got cleaned up to get a propane tank filled.
'I was dirty'
asked who he had been talking to on the phone.
'nobody'
he kept starting to tell me something but never would.

after all this, he wants to snuggle w/me all evening. hugs, kisses and wants s*x. i say no, that i want to 'make love' not just have s*x. we do make love later, but why does he want all the affection from me if he doesn't love me?

All fog talk. Your H sounds just like mine. He would disappear and then make up excuses. The I love you, not in love with you speech is classic cheater talk. So are lies and denial. Don't even argue with him, it will drive you crazy. You should be in Plan A and try to emotionally detach if you can. It is hard, I couldn't stay in Plan A. My H came over and picked up his Harley one day and said he had to work on it. I told him I knew he was taking OW out for a ride. He denied it and just about pushed me over trying to get away. I begged him not to do it. Found out from OW's H that she and my H went riding all weekend. Monday when I saw H, he denied it, denied that I asked him not to take it, etc. That's when I knew that I couldn't live like this. I went into Plan B and have been much happier since, but the MB program calls for several months of Plan A. I just couldn't do it, I was going crazy. All the lies, self-righteous behavior, and lack of care was too much for me. But try to hang in there if you can. Realize that he is deeply in the fog and try not to take it too personally.

First of all, just wondering if you are a fellow Minnesotan (UofMFan).

I also wanted to give you encouragement. I have gone full circle with the whole affair thing and we have been in recovery for almost two years now. Looking back, all the tears and sleepless nights were worth what we have today. I never dreamed that marriage could be so great.

Hang in there and stick with Plan A for as long as you can. When you can't stand it any longer, then move to Plan B. For me, plan B was the scariest thing I ever did, but it got easier as time went by. During both Plan A and B focus on yourself because you can't do anything about your WH actions. Make yourself a better person. I also turned my focus on God and found incredible peace! I knew that no matter what I had someone who loved me way more than my husband ever could and that was Jesus Christ!!

Another thing I did is find a couselor who helped me to focus on me. There are awesome couselors out there so if you don't connect with the first one, try another. Focusing one yourself is the only thing you have control over right now.

As far as the divorce threats, don't let them get to you. My husband made these threats many times, but never filed. I almost think that he was waiting for me to file because then it would take that blame off him. He could tell the kids, friends, and family that I divorced him.

Be patient, be strong, trust in God and know that you will be a better person when all is said and done!

Many Prayers

Le

blue & maize fan here! (Univ of Michigan)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You should be in Plan A and try to emotionally detach if you can. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been trying to do plan A and now see I can't continue w/it. I am seeing h as being so selfish and taking my attention for granted and still off doing his own thing. I am having a difficult time getting anything done during the day. I have been in tears for most of this week over every time i think he is w/ow.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another thing I did is find a couselor who helped me to focus on me. There are awesome couselors out there so if you don't connect with the first one, try another. Focusing one yourself is the only thing you have control over right now.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is hard. I have a very good counselor, but each time i go in to see her, she points out that i am not working on me. I try, but his day to day wandering is where my focus is and i can't change that w/o going to plan B.

I have tried to emotionally detach and it hasn't worked. I love him dearly, but it hurts everytime i see him to know that he doesn't love me anymore.

Hi uofmfan,

I am new here and only posted twice but I have been reading this website and peoples' responses for days and days and hours and hours, trying to absorb everything too.

I just wanted to say that I can understand how you feel.But, I had an "epiphany" the other day right after my counseling session, alone, with our MC. The one biggest thing that happened and has helped me focus on ME is that by going through my husbands affair, I realized that I had to face some painful issues that I had within myself. I really started to focus on that and that was so scary, more than what I was going through with the A.

For me, it was coming to the realization that I identified so much with my husband for so long that I forgot what it meant to be and exist as me, REALLY me. My identity. I became the wife, mother, houskeeper,laundry lady,etc.etc. but when I worked on *FACING* my biggest fears which were the possibility of not being married and not being with my husband who I had been with for 20 YEARS of my life, I began to become stronger. I didn't try to find out where he was, or talk to him on the phone about the affair,etc. I focused on MY WELLBEING and that meant saying to myself, yes, everyone now knows what a "horrible" thing my husband did,that has been mentioned many times but it was time to stop. I could go on forever telling him how he hurt me and my 2 daughters but I wasn't going to still focus on HIM and let him continue to take my life away, slowly with each argument and phone call,look or whatever.

I began by taking over my husbands' responsibilities as a father,like someone else mentioned here at one time. If he is going to not be around for them, then I will! His LOSS.

One thing is for DAM sure. I made it ABSOLUTELY clear that he cannot have ANY contact with the OW or we have nothing to discuss. I am not going to be dragged through the mud emotionally for MONTHS or longer because he can't make up his mind( and he has not contacted OW anymore and said his "goodbyes"). I am a worthy human being and as such, NO ONE will be allowed to make me feel that I am not. I go back in my thoughts about what I used to feel like before I was married and I am an outsider looking in.I remember how much I thought of myself and what respect I had for ME.Would I then have let anyone hurt me continually? Yes, we are working on our marriage and I have even thought about divorce and what that would mean. I am still on antidepressants to help me function each day but the more I keep my thoughts and actions focused on helping me, the more stronger I am and the more * I change for the better in my husbands eyes.He no longer sees a woman who is waiting at home for him and hoping for his attention.

He now sees a woman who is a devoted woman to our marriage, who is willing to do whatever it takes to make it work( and he knows that) but is stronger and is in action, making decisions for herself and her children.No more wishy washy life here.I get myself the help I need and the support. I continue on with the other parts of my life that were on hold. I take great care of my beloved girls and show them what a strong *woman I am( my oldest daughter called me her soldier!). I walk my dog,I take care of my home, I see friends and my family, who have been so incredibly supportive,I take a long bubblebath,etc. Get the picture?

I tell myself: **NO matter what happens, I WILL be OK. With or without him.

I just want for everyone to have some of the strength I have been blessed with in the last couple of days. I know in my heart it is GOD showing me what great **personal growth there is here,among all this pain.That is hard to see and accept in the beginning for sure but, then, I am believing it now. I still have some hard times here and there, but they are so much less. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Take care and God bless.

Octobergirl

Replace DAM with DARN.LOL

I was really feeling my stregth there but didn't mean to put dam. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have tried to emotionally detach and it hasn't worked. I love him dearly, but it hurts everytime i see him to know that he doesn't love me anymore.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Many WSs try to pull the "I don't love you anymore" routine. I believe it is fog. They are confusing true love that is. They think that they can trust their emmotions and that the butterflies they feel in their stomach is "love". Well that is way wrong!

I guess what I am trying to say is don't let him saying that he doesn't love you tear you apart. Love is much deeper than words and butterflies.

If you have reached the point where you can no longer Plan A, then Plan B is the logical next step. It is scary at first, but after a couple of weeks I found myself gaining confidence and finally feeling free. It was exactly what I needed. I needed to realize that I could survive without my husband because when he came crawling back, I had my head on straight and could confidently lay down my feelings and expectations. I realized that if my husband was not going to agree with what I needed to regain my trust in him, that I could live on my own and be happy.

Trust in God and he will bring you peace.

Le

part of my problem, or dilemma?, is that i have grown a lot in the past 5 years w/having to deal w/our son's handicap. i had to make choices w/the issues dealing with his life but i really thought i had my h's full commitment to that. (s and i moved out of state for the past 6 mos to recieve better therapy for s) our commitment was that the house here would be spruced up and put on the market so my h could move w/us in a year. i have become more independent outside of our marriage and i think that is why we are here. the things that are brought up by h are so old and irrelevant, it is hard to change those things since i already have and he is still living in the past.

I moved back home to save my marriage. at this point, he doesn't want to and i am losing (or have lost) all hope for that.

I felt the strength of GOD when i made the decision to work on our marriage. I am thankful for HIS being here w/me through this. I have never felt this strong before.

But, I think some of this strength that I have now is scaring my h. He keeps telling me over and over how I can never be the person that he loved again. No, i'm not that needy and selfish individual anymore. There are times when h tries to push me to that. I know that i can do ok on my own, it is just so hard to give up the dream that h and i would be together forever as we had always talked about.

there was more i was going to say, but i have started crying again. be back later.

Hi again,

Change is hard for everyone.It is scary but without it, we become complacent,imobile,stunted and narrow minded. Your husband may be stuck in the past but that doesn't mean you should be either. Yes, he may be afraid at the changes in you and that you are stronger but you COULD and CAN be someone he could love "again" even *better. He has to be open to that possibility.

It is hard to think about the loss of a relationship, one in which you thought would last "forever". It is the loss of innocence. I also think about my relationship, how it was going to last forever,how everyone around us looked to us as the "perfect" couple. Look at us now.It is irrevocably changed.

Having dreams is one of the things that makes us alive and though they may not always go how we would like, they are still what is in our hearts and even though this particular door to your life may close, GOD always has others waiting to open for us although we cannot always see that right away.How we choose to look at the ways the relationship affected us is where the growth comes in. I'm sorry that you are feeling down again but let those tears flow. It washes and cleanses the soul. If you believe that phrase that "GOD does not give us more than we can handle" you WILL be OK.

Even though you may feel like you are losing your marriage or the will to fight, continue to keep the focus on you and your son(s). Make you and him your priority and keep taking one step in front of the other and one day at a time regardless of where your husband is at in his life.mind and heart.We come into this world alone, but of GOD's love, and thus we go out and so remember to love and take care of yourself.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> October

Ok. I think I am waffling here.
Talked to SH today and I am feeling really confused over what to do.
I also called and made an appointment with my atty.

I feel better over the call to the atty than I do from talking to SH. (I only want to file for separation though and not divorce. (Plan B) But feel I am grasping at straws here that that might save my marriage.)

SH says I have jumped too far ahead. I need to start out more slowly with h to bring him to where we could work on this.

I am getting afraid to talk to my h. I don't really want to know anymore that he doesn't want to work on this.

but then maybe i should ask him again what he wants. enough times through this and he will either come back or i will be ready to move on.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you COULD and CAN be someone he could love "again" even *better. He has to be open to that possibility.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i just don't know anymore. i can't seem to be the 'better' me around him any longer. And he has already told me a dozen times (at least) that he isn't interested in the 'better' me.

<small>[ November 12, 2003, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: uofmfan ]</small>

Hi,

Well, at some point for all of us here, a decision needs to be made or we are in a painful "limbo". Maybe it is time for you to make that decision to go on with your life.

I know that may be one that I may need to make at some point too but I am clear in my mind, that I refuse to continue in a relationship that is relentlessly drawn out, without any progress,hurting myself , my kids and our families because of continued indecision.If you can't be the better "you" around him,honestly, then why keep someone like that in your life. I know it is a hard thought to deal with.Part of our pain and frustration is knowing that still, even in the end or at whatever point in time after the A is out in the open, that our spouses could still make "bad" decisions.Meaning, that he/she won't get help or stop talking to OW/OM or whatever.

I am a true believer that action is power in this trauma so for me, I have started collecting information and getting legal help just in case divorce is where I end up.Continue to do the same as much as you can. Also consider that if you do decide to think truthfully about separation/divorce, Collaborative Family Law(if you have that in your state), is a more easier and inexpensive eway to get that ball rolling instead of a messy, bitter,expensive court battle.In my state, there is no "legal separation".

"Bringing him" to where he wants to work on the marriage, slowly,is not your job anymore IMO. It is him that needs to start taking action.I am assuming SH is your husband? Sorry, I don't know what those initials mean just yet.

I think it comes down to just how much time are you willing to give yourself and your husband to start making the right decisions and not be on the "fence" as they say here.I don't know you or how long you have been working on this but thinking through how much of your life you are willing to let be drained away by this pain is something we all have to decide for ourselves.Not an easy answer but we DO have choices.We can make them even if they are painful but are necessary for life to start feeling good again. I don't think our lives are intended to be in painful situations for all our lives. They are given to us for the good.

Your husband may never know what he truly wants but if he is not able or willing to explore that within himself, what can YOU do?

octobergirl
thanks for the reply.
those are some of the painful decisions that are very hard to make. i know that i am not being 'me' just because i have heard so many lies from h and not sure what to believe anymore. this tends to make me question a lot of things, even 'who' I am. but the truth has come out. (i'll post that in another reply)

SH is Steve Harley from MB counseling. and i may have misquoted him by saying 'bring him to'.

Hi again,

I think we are both communicating on two different posts? I will look for the other.I know this painful,it is,it is.What a drag.

Affairs do make us doubtful about everything I think but for me,working on my inner beliefs and my fears(while I go through all this) has made me realize even more who I am and what I want in life. I have even surprised myself at what has come out.The beat goes on...

October <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />