My husband went to his individual counseling session yesterday with the
MC yesterday. Last week, he had written me a letter saying he was going to ask the MC for a referral to a new counselor because he didn't think that he wanted to help him. He basically said that because I hired the MC, the MC was just willing to sit and listen and take his money.

So I put a call into the counselor because I thought he was going to let me know if that's what happened and I hadn't heard. He eventually calls me. . . . . .he was very vague with me. I know he can't go into details due to confidentiality but I'm starting to panic over what happened. First he says you two don't talk do you? I told him no, because my husband was avoiding me (affair ended 11/3 because I called OW's H and started WWIII) and that I was trying to give him the space he needed to become more clear headed. He said that was good, but that my
husband said he was going to talk to me and the MC said we needed to talk too. Now, when he said this he gave me the impression (not sure why, instinct??) that my husband wasn't going to tell me anything good or even hopeful. So now, I'm doing exactly what I'm not supposed to be doing and thinking (ok, so probably more like obsessing) about what's going to happen when I get home.

Here's where I think I need more help and advice. . . . . .if he tells me that he's
filing for divorce my instinct is to tell him not to. That I don't believe we have really tried everything we can and at least owe that to ourselves and the kids to do that much. I know this is like begging him not to, but all along I've told him that I will not accept divorce and fight it and fight for him. How can I express this without seeming like I'm begging
him or trying to convince him???

I don't think we've tried anything at this point because we haven't had one MC session together since the A has ended. . . . . . Help!!!!

Hope <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

FOG FOG FOG

He is going thru withdrawal and it hasn't even been two weeks. In all reality, the physical affair may be over, but the emotional part is tougher.

Plan A - Plan A - Plan A

I have been where you are 3x over (my husband moved out 3 time within a few months). I understand your fears. If you love your husband, of coarse you should NOT agree with a divorce. I could go on and on about my experiences, but I think what you need more than that is a big hug and encouragement.

Hang in there and don't give up! Remember that you con't control your husband. Focus on making yourself a better person. Trust in God to carry you through and he will bring you peace.

Many prayers,

Le

Over and Over, actually your experiences at this point would be very insightful and motivational for me. Did you H ever ask for a divorce? If so, what did you say?? How did you word it??? I'm looking for as many stories, experiences, examples, etc. that I can get before I go home today.

Hope

Yes he asked for a divorce, several times. But then he never followed through with it. I think that he wanted me to actually do the filing, because then he could tell the kids, friends, and family that I divorced him. This would rid him of a little guilt.

Be very cautious of anything your husband says in these next couple of weeks. It takes them a long time to clear the fog. Especially if there is still contact with the OW. My husband was in a whirlwind of emmotions and couldn't figure out what he wanted. While I was in Plan A . . . he moved to an apartment twice and then returned after 2-3 weeks. The 3rd time I found that there was still contact, I gave him a Plan B letter and asked him to leave.

We had zero contact for 6 weeks and he finally woke up. We have been in recovery for almost 2 years and it gets easier every day.

If he does ask for a divorce, remain calm and stick with plan A. Yes it will hurt, but keep telling yourself that he is in the fog and doesn't really know what he is doing or saying.

Pray for God to bring you peace and then focus on you. Keep filling his EMs and no LBing. Look to a friend or family member to confide in. If you don't have anyone, use this forum to express your frustrations and try keeping a journal.

It's a long road and it may not alway be easy, by with strength from God and gaining confidence in yourself will pull you thru.

I feel like I am rambling. I guess I just want you to know that there is hope! Today, we both look back and kick ourselves for waisting so many years! Marriage can be awesome!

Many prayers,

Le

Hope,

Over is right. Plan A. Do not Love Bust. Begging is not good....but telling him that you are not enthusiastic about divorce and would like to try more things is perfectly acceptable. If he files....do all in your power to delay....so that his feelings for the OW have time to be in line with reality. Be understanding...."I know this doesn't seem to be helping right now, but please give these things time to work for a while before giving up." That sort of thing. One of the MOST difficult things for a BS is helping the WS get though withdrawal. Try to be strong chere.

Hi Hope,

I'm afraid I have nothing specific to offer, even though I hear your urgency... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I'll look around some other threads to see if I can find any helpful suggestions that have been given to others in your situation -- I know you must feel like the clock is ticking on you!

Hey Over and Over: it certainly sounds like you've been through the wringer and come out the other side!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If he does ask for a divorce, remain calm and stick with plan A. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you have any specifics to suggest to Hope? She has been doing a great Plan A and is remaining calm but I know she's looking for advice on what to say, specifically how to respond to him if he tells her in person that he wants a D.

Be honest? "I love you and it really hurts to hear you say this. I do not want a divorce and feel that we can work together to have a terrific marriage in future." Leave it at that? Talk about it? Ask him why he's moving forward with this now? (He's only been away from home for a short while)

What about the kids? Is it fair to say anything about them? "The kids are going to have a real tough time with this." Duh...but that's not about your feelings so should it even be said?

And Hope wrote him a beautiful love letter (essentially)...would now be the time to give it to him? Or would it simply be lost in the fog? Or worse yet, act as an irritant because he's asking for a D and she's saying I love you?

Wow...I have a lot of questions. Would really like to hear what others think too...you always have such interesting opinions and advice!

The reality is that you cannot stop him from divorcing you, if that is what he decides to do. If he says he wants a divorce, I would say: "I do not want one. It hurts me terribly that you do." That's it. Nothing more. NO BEGGING - it is very unnattractive, and you want staying married to you to appear to be an attractive alternative. No acknowledging that you cannot control him, and therefore he can do what he wants - while that is true, he may interpret that as you allowing him to leave.

He is at a point here where he MAY say he wants a divorce. He may change his mind tomorrow, and then change it back again the next day (or hour), and then change again...and again. You want to do everything you can to make the LAST time he changes his mind to be changing it to "I want to stay married to H4B." The time between then and now is irrelevant, providing you don't let your love bank be destroyed by takeing any of it too seriously. I wouldn't even take a declaration that he wants to work on the marriage too seriously...he will have to show you. I am not suggesting you dismiss or denigrate anything positive he says about working on your marriage. I am simply saying that until you see actions consistent with those words, over a long period of time, don't get your hopes up. Just like until you see actions consistent with getting a divorce - over a long period of time - don't let go of hope.

Faith, Hope and Love - those three remain. So, I guess I should have said: Don't let go of God. He will give you what you need, whether it is hope or something else.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey Over and Over: it certainly sounds like you've been through the wringer and come out the other side!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, have made the full circle.

I think my best advice is what I said before . . .

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If he does ask for a divorce, remain calm and stick with plan A. Yes it will hurt, but keep telling yourself that he is in the fog and doesn't really know what he is doing or saying.

Pray for God to bring you peace and then focus on you. Keep filling his EMs and no LBing. Look to a friend or family member to confide in. If you don't have anyone, use this forum to express your frustrations and try keeping a journal.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will be praying for you that this is not what is going to happen. Hopefully you misread your counselors comments. I would also like to suggest that if you are not getting the help from your counselor that you think you need, go find another one. There are over 90 different types of counselors out there and different types work for different people.

Many prayers,

Le

Star and I were posting at the same time so I hadn't seen her response&#8230;glad to see she had some specific suggestions for you as did Johnh39!

As mentioned, I went on the Divorcing forum and snagged a few other suggestions for you. They all seem to support the same (overall) viewpoint, just keep in mind that they were written to different people (which is why the he's and she's keep changing) and that I've edited them a bit:

From Firebird:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Try reading these two books:

"When Love Dies" (How to Save a Hopeless Marriage) If you buy this book from Amazon you also get this book with it: "How to Save Your Marriage Alone".

"How to Save Your Marriage Alone" is tiny in size but is full of hope. It has a near perfect Plan A. It will shows how to keep from Love Busting and do it through faith.
web page

I think your H has feelings, but he is angry and full of resolve. He is cold because he is expecting a fight from you to persuade him not to leave. Then you demonstrate it by not love busting are going against any of his wishes. Be loving kind and understanding even though he may not be to you, at least for now.

He is in love with his negative feelings, so much so that they spured him on to file, no doubt to show you he means business&#8230;you have an opportunity to change yourself and for him to see it. But you must be consistant and not look for results right away, It may take a long time.

To Paraphrase a saying by the famed football coach, Vince Lombardi. "The one who wins isn't the fastest, strongest or smartest but the one who believes he can."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From cerri:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You really don't want to get into the legal system, what you want to do is drag your feet and see what happens with the A.

Then you need to tell her how you feel in generaly about this thing she is doing. Not what you think - and certainly not what you think about her and her choices at this time. HOW YOU FEEL. Ok?

Do not ask about the dv. Do not mention the dv. Do not acknowledge that the possbility of dv exists. If she brings it up, tell her that you do not want a dv and that you don't want to talk about it right now. (and the shut your mouth and say no more about it.

You have to think through this unemotionally - if you ask someone if they want something they have indicated that they might want - and that you do not - OF COURSE they need to defend their position and tell you they're pretty sure it's what they want. And in doing that, they solidify that thought in their own minds. When you bring it up and force her to talk to you about it, you are making it more real for her and more likely to happen. Don't go there, it's not in your best interests or that of your family.

Your position is that you want to save the marriage, you know where to get the tools to do so, and you are determined to be the spouse she needs and wants.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From gentle:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know how you feel about not wanting a divorce. Almost everyone that leaves a spouse says all the same things your wife is saying now. Many of these same people reconcile with their spouse at some point. I know many of these couples myself.

You must stop going by what you see or hear from your wife. Please stop trying to convince her to stay. You cannot convince or convict her of anything.

You are were I was almost four years ago, 3 years and nine months ago. I was so broken and wanted someone, anyone to give me hope. I wanted to hear about restored marriages, not ones were the left spouse just got over the divorce and started a new life. Most of all I thought for sure the pain was going to kill me. How could anyone live and have this much pain?

Things just keep getting better. My husband has went from saying he was never coming home to saying I don't know why I can't make a decision. He has went form not wanting to spend item as a family to staying with us all the time. The last several months he has been here more than not been here. We go to church together and do many things together. He acts as if we are a family and he even calls me his wife when talking to others. He refers to us as a couple. The last 3 Thanksgivings we have spent apart. But this Thanksgiving we will all be together that his parents home.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">from greengables:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do the best possible Plan A ever. And that includes not demanding he come back. Or even ask for that right now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also read a couple of articles on the following site that had some helpful info: http://www.marriagesavers.org/personalhelp.htm ...but am sending the info to you privately because I am not sure about possible copyright infringement.

Now: You are prepared and ready for whatever fantasy dish H has cookin' for you...right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Update:


I was absolutely dead on about what was happening today. He basically met me at the door, had everything spelled out about the divorce, how much I should get for child support and alimony, he wants me to use his lawyer!! Basically, I&#8217;m supposed to be nice about this so he can get on with his life!

BTW, he also told me that he&#8217;s had more than 1 affair &#8211; the one with Lisa wasn&#8217;t the only one!!! At this point, I am very emotionally drained and I&#8217;m not sure I want to fight, although I&#8217;m not accepting his terms. He wants to have a realtor at the house next week and force us into moving prior to the holidays!

You&#8217;d be sort of proud, I didn&#8217;t cry (too numb) but I did tell him that I wished he&#8217;d reconsider until we&#8217;d done a Retrovaille weekend because I didn&#8217;t feel like we had tried anything let alone everything we could do. He kept saying it didn&#8217;t matter, because he doesn&#8217;t know if he could be in a monogamous relationship.

I feel so sad for our children, more so than me. Suggestions? Advice???? Please. . . . .

LosingHope <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Oh Hope, I am sooo sorry!

Don't let him rush you or push you into something you are not ready for. If you want to still work on your marriage, stall for as long as you can.

You said . . .
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he doesn&#8217;t know if he could be in a monogamous relationship.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is he willing to keep going to couseling? Would he be willing to go to a Christian couselor or at least one that won't encourage a divorce? It is important that he finds a couselor that works towards unity in the marriage, not disolution.

My heart goes out to you!

Many Prayers,

Le

If at some point you decide to go thru with it, DO NOT use his lawyer. You need to find out what is best for you and his lawyer will not tell you that.

Over,
That's part of the problem, he's not willing to do anything to work on the marriage. He is in that stage where it's all about him and he doesn't care who gets hurt in the process (he actually said words to that effect). We had never been to counseling once the A was over and he's not willing to go now. He's not willing to delay the process and go to a Retrovaille weekend and see what happens first. It's all about him!!!!!

I feel like at this point I have not choices. A marriage needs 2 people to be in it to have a chance and clearly there's only 1 in this one. . . .

Any more ideas??

Hope

Have you ever tried Plan B? I hate to encourage anyone to Plan B, but it sounds like you are the end of your rope. Actually Plan B is what finally brought my husband back to reality.

Read all about Plan B and see if you think it is where you are at. Remember that Plan B is not about manipulating your husband, it's about working on yourself and trying to separate from the emmotions of the A.

If divorce does not seem like an option for you yet, I would draft a Plan B letter and pray about it. Just don't let him push you into any rash dicisions.

Many Prayers,

Le

Over,

But won't he just see this as a manipulation ploy? He's already out of the house. In fact, since he's had this week off, he was supposed to be at our house "fixing" things up. Well he fixed things up alright, he took everything he wanted out of the house!! Mostly just his personal effects, but he did take some birth certificates, marriage certificates that I'll need (for the kids and mine).

He's said we're done and there's nothing I can do to change his mind. How do you Plan B that?

Hope

If you are not ready to throw in the towel, then why not try anything you can. As far as him feeling like you are manipulating him, is this an area that he/you struggle with already? If not, then I wouldn't worry about it. Just carefully word your letter. Just let him know that you are not ready to finalize things with a divorce and outline what you do want.

As far as the birth ceriticates and marriage certificates, you can easily get new copies at the court house. One thing that you might want to do is secure any assets that you feel you have rights to. A lawyer can help you freeze any accounts. Also, you may be able to change locks and keep him from coming in the house and taking anything else. Check the laws in your state.

What ever you do, I would recommend securing your own lawyer and getting legal advice. If he is going to push this divorce, you need to protect yourself.

Again, I am so sorry and feel your pain.

Le