I just found out about my wife's two A's two weeks ago today. It seems like a lifetime ago. We have dealt with many issues, including her telling OM in second A that it was OVER, both of us getting medical tests (negative) and meeting socially with OM and OMW from first A (I handled that OK).
We are both working very hard on this. Much more work ahead, of course. She claims that her love for ME is solid and that this was a middle-age crazy type thing.....and will be put into the past.

Question: She feels that she can and should maintain contact platonicly with OM from first A, by internet and phone, and stay faithful in the future. Dr. Hartley seems to indicate that this sort of thing has ZERO chance of NOT fouling up our recovery. Am I a total fool for not strenuouusly objecting? Any one have similar experience or thoughts??

Hi there,

Well, as Dr.Harley puts it, she may be trying to keep this OM "in the loop" by contact,in some way.Not recommended.

I'm wondering,does the OMW from first affair KNOW that she wants to keep in contact with him? Has this guy told his wife,"Hey,you know that woman that I had an affair with before,well we are going to start keeping in touch by phone and internet."

PARDON ME??

I personally don't think so.At the very least,she should not want,need to contact this OM if it hurts you,and I can't imagine it wouldn't despite "handling" the previous social 4 way encounter(unusual).It just sounds too bizarre for my liking. I wouldn't feel comfortable no matter how good things were going in my marriage.

Well,there you go.Just my opinion.

October <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

P.S. Just how long ago were these affairs?

Deep- OH OH! It sounds like the monkeys are running the zoo. Read all of the information here over and over until you understand it completely. It sounds like W is in some kind of MLC - like an empty nest affair. But whatever it is you need support since you seem to be the sane one. Now is the time for you to go to work on M and yourself. Keep posting here, somehow it really helps. When something bothers you, come here. I did and got great advice, which sometimes I didn't follow. But all and all the MB plan is solid and will get you through this.

Thanks for the thoughts, Octobergirl! To say that the 4way social encounter with the other couple from A #1 was unusual and bizarre is a major understatement! The facts are these:
The OM #1 ended the A in June because of guilt
It started in February
OM #1 doesn't know that I know
OMW doesn't know ANYTHING!

I have told my wife that I am watching her like a hawk (spying?) out of concern for our marriage and that if she doesn't stick to her promise of fidelity in the future, that she will force me to "go nuclear" on all of this. We both acknowledge that "TRUST" doesn't and can't exist after her cheating. She tells me that she dosn't NEED the contact with OM to fill any voids in OUR relationship.......kinda begs the question: "So why not END those contacts and play it safe, for the sake of re-building our marriage"

Hi again,

So,you had 4 way encounter with all parties but the OMW didn't know about the affair and the OM didn't know you knew??! Wow,you might as well be in a movie.Surreal. And you agreed to this meeting...why?? Was it your wife's idea? Hmmm.

First of all,telling her that you're watching her like a hawk isn't the best way to go, in my opinion.She will feel untrusted(as she should be at the moment) and may try to devise ways to be sneaky and start things all over again.It is not your responsibility to be your wifes keeper.She is an adult and should behave like one.

I'm sure you realize that trust isn't something you can just hand over to someone like a box of chocolates. It has to first be earned,then planted and then sown and in the end,reaped,over time.By suggesting to you that she maintain ANY contact with the OM after what has transpired is not a good way to begin building that trust.If she is so focused on your marriage and you,she would know that.

The other issue is that two people in this equation do not know,or may suspect(who knows) that something is not right(affair).And that presents a problem too.As long as OMW and OM do not know that you know and that she doesn't know...wait a minute.I'm getting away from myself here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Seriously,your wife should not be tempting to contact this OM at all,you should both be discussing that in counseling and this OM and the OMW need to know. It may not be what you want to hear at this point but consider: as long as the OM doesn't know that you know,she has that privacy and she should not.The OMW should also know because when all involved parties are exposed,it makes it all the more difficult to continue such a situation.

Right now that OW is living a lie,her marriage is a lie.She should have the right to know and make her own judgments about what SHE should do after the discovery.But,it is hard enough to tell one's spouse,I don't think many people would really tell other spouses involved due to more hurt going around but affairs always come out at some point,right?

I think most of us would love to go "nuclear" on our wayward spouses at some time( I know I would) but this may or may not be a big red flag. You have to determine that.She has to commit to NC at all with this person and if she is unwilling,says that she can handle it or whatever,then you have to start thinking about a Plan B perhaps.If in fact she says something like,ok, I understand how this could affect you and I and our marriage, I will not contact OM ever, then you may have averted "catastrophe".

The fact that the *OM ended the affair due to guilt may be a factor in her reasoning to try and be in contact with him.She may not be as convinced in her mind as she thinks she is about her feelings that it is over.

What do you think? Have anything else to add? Did she try to contact him in the past few months that you know of? You know,if the OMW knew about all this, she could,in a way,be an allie as you all try to sort this out.You do know eachother already anway.

October <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Deep Breath

You wife is deeply in the “fog.” Don’t believe a word she is saying. This MLC thing is so much bologna as is this crap about maintaining contact with OM. It is called “fog talk” and is totally irrational.

What you must do is hard but you must expose both affairs NOW to the OMW’s. Tell them what you know and ask for their support in preventing further contact. The reason for EXPOSURE is NOT REVENGE. Exposure is one of the most effective ways to end affairs. Don’t believe a word your wife or one of the OM’s says about the affairs being over. That’s so much “fog talk.” They will lie and cheat time after time. You must take the bull by the horns.

Confront your wife with what you know and have done and tell her in no uncertain terms that you expect NO CONTACT of any kind, anywhere, anytime. That means no cell phone calls, no email or accidentally bumping into one of the OM. Get her email and cell phone passwords and start snooping big time. Check credit card bills for hotel, motel records. Tell wife that she must account for her time every day.

Your job is to get her out of the “fog” as quickly as you can and get the two of you into counseling. Don’t waffle on this. Be tough and you can get your wife back and restore a happy, trustworthy marriage.

Let us know how thing are progressing

Beau

October-
Thanks again for your thoughts. I have thought HOURS on end about contacting the OM or the OMW....even scenarios where I force the issue with WS and call in front of her, putting her on the line too. I don't know HOW you do something like that without huge dangers to all. I keep thinking about it, tho, and value advice of those of you who may have dealt with this successfully.

Beau- Thanks also for your thoughts. I have put that kind of snooping in place.....cellphone bills, phone line at home, and a special thanks to Spector Software! (I now see all she does on her computer) And I have TOLD her that I see it. I have told her that I can observe her in other ways she doesn't know of. I know the sounds creepy, but someone here said it is "affair research".

To further complicate things, last winter as this was staring, she was diagnosed with breats cancer and has undergone a double mastectomy and reconstruction since then. That makes me much more compassionate, of course. but I am still CRUSHED!

Hello,

I wish you luck because you are doing many things totally wrong.
1) It is essential that the OM's wife of each affair be told. The Harley's believe it is imperative that the betrayed spouses know what is happening. By not telling you are in fact enabling her. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.
2) Absolute No Contact is mandatory. You would have to be out of your mind to tolerate her ongoing "nonsexual" friendship with the OM. How disrespectful it is of her toward you. How do you think she would feel if the roles were reversed?
She has been having unprotected sex with her lovers and she expects you to be all right with her maintaining a friendship with the other man?
For goodness sake open your eyes. She violated your marriage and put your health at risk and you refuse to take a stand about her continuing contact with her ex-lover? What is wrong with this picture? She is continuing to disrespect and humiliate you and your marriage. You need to be proactive about the non contact and informing the other men's wifes. If you do not respect yourself and your marriage by allowing this behavior; then why should she respect you? Again if the roles were reversed do you really think your wife ever allow you the type of behavior that she is engaging in? You need to stop being a doormat.
It is unbelievable that she would expect you to tolerate an evening out with the OM and his wife and being forced to endure this. You should have confronted the OM and the wife right then and tell them you knew. You need to stand up and take action and stop being so accepting of such degrading behavior toward you. I wish you luck because you will need it.

Hi deep,

Oh dear. So sorry to hear about your wife.That does compound things doesn't it. Doesn't make what she did right but had no idea.

Weel, I do not feel comfortable telling you how you would go about telling other parties involved about affairs, have not been here that long and it is complicated. Hopefully a seasoned "regular" will.

I actually snooped too after I found out about the affair but more so to confirm my suspicions(Instincts) and gather info in case we are headed to divorce.I am just being precautious and prepared,no matter what.My husband didn't really care, I don't think, to try and hide stuff that well. I always caught him off guard and he always slipped up. A detective he would never be!

Hmmm.Spector Software,is that like a mini camera or something? Or does it just allow you to reread what she was?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ctober

Deep Breath

I am sorry to have to point this out but your wife was having an affair just a few months ago breast cancer or no. You can’t possibly continue to snoop on her for years and have any kind of marriage. Get the sordid mess out in the open. Don’t condone her behavior by your lack of action because you feel sorry for her having breast cancer. Gosh, one in four women in the US have breast cancer but that doesn’t excuse having affairs.

The way to tell both the OMW is to call her on the phone and say; I thought you needed to know about some information that I recently found out about. Then you explain what you know. This will stop your wife and OM from further contact. She’ll be unhappy that you have taken this fantasy relationship away but she’ll get over it.

Beau

DeepBreath

No matter what you choose to do or not do. We will be here for you. Ask questions, posts comments, vent frustrations whatever. We will listen and try to help.

Beau

Thanks to all for the comments. Believe it or not, I HAVE taken a tough stand on many issues. This continuing contact thing is the tough nut to crack. The A was 5 months in the past and I feel that I am sure of that.

I guess that I was fishing for confirmation of what I already believed...that her calls and e-mailing to OM must end. I am just bending over backwards trying to be compassionate because a) I am far from and Angel and b) she is dealing with cancer.

And of course I am confused as hell! I am an analytical type, over thinking and analyzing everything. And this is an area where logic and reason don't apply.

But I DO think that we are making progress here....thanks again for the help!!!

Also, October, in answer to your question about Spector Software [http://www.spectorsoft.com/], they have two programs that run "invisibly" on the PC, one to record all keystrokes, snapshots of whatever is on the screen, all e-mail and IM messages, etc. that you can play back later if you have the password....the other forwards a record of certain such activity to YOUR e-mail, so you can track remotely. Since these A's started on the internet, I am obviously watching this closely. I realize that this is "treating symptoms, not curing the cause" but it has been very helpful!