When a spouse loses respect for her husband and cheats without thinking about the consequences for her, her partner or her children is because society promotes it and the Church condones it. Yes, we live in a society where it is perfectly normal to be unfaithful. Infidelity is rampant and seen everywhere. The Church condones it because the first thing that counselors ask is what the victim did making him feel guilty. Then, you are asked to forgive and she is told that she is already forgiven. Those sermons that used to emphasize morality are gone and so are the warnings about the dangers of adultery.

We love them, protect them, provide for them and spoil them. Then, because of lame excuses they go out and have affairs. Then, invent lies and all of a sudden start to find defects in their husbands who prior to their infidelity were model husbands, devout Christian and family men. A Christian man is confussed about he should feel. There are normal feelings such as anger, disgust, finding the other man that are considered "sinful".

The problem is that there are no laws that punish the behaviour. In other cultures there are severe consequences for the unfaithful spouse and for the other man. As Christians, our hands are tied because we cannot even approach the other man. To face him man to man is a sin. In other times, a family's honor was valuable and was defended. No wonder there are many who are hurt and frustrated. Women are able to hide feelings and fake better than men can. Children are rarely taken from them regardless of their infidelity and the courts still reward them with the division of property. How much more unfair can it be? Should one deal with worldy sin as a worldly person would?

<small>[ November 18, 2003, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: trustingfool ]</small>

Do you want an answer to your title question, do you want to know why YOUR wife cheated, or are you just venting?

John, I am not just venting. I want answers to many questions that I have. She was the love of my life and I trusted her like no one else. I gave her my all and she had nothing to complain about. In fact, she used to tell others how blessed she was. All of a sudden, she went out and had an affair, lied, became nasty toward me and very irritable. All of this before I found out. When we went to a counselor, she was crying and he made me feel like I was the guilty party. Now, a different counselor just talks about forgiveness and told her in front of me that God had already forgiven her. She managed to change a trusting, devout and loving husband into a shell of a man who now does not trust anyone. I really question my own self-steem and whether my staying with her is a sign of codependence.
I was a strong Christian before I married her and she has changed all of that in me. I question many things.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When a spouse loses respect for her husband and cheats ... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why did she lose respect? Why does SHE say she lost respect?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...without thinking about the consequences for her, her partner or her children </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Most people don't think about the consequences before they do stupid things. And even if she had thought of the consequences, she really could never imagined the extremity of it all. She probably wasn't rational when it started - I know I wasn't.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The Church condones it because the first thing that counselors ask is what the victim did making him feel guilty. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They usually aren't asking to make the betrayed spouse feel guilty...they are asking because there was a REASON that it happened - and sometimes the cheating spouse really doesn't even know why.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We love them, protect them, provide for them and spoil them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you? Did she have the option to stay home or work? Did you pay attention? Did you appreciate the small things she did for you?
Here is a very recent story about me: for YEARS I always leave a note for my husband so that when he got home before me he'd have a note. He'd go on and on about how much paper I wasted leaving him a note everyday before work - got mad once because we were out of typing paper cuz I left too many stupid notes.
Well, two days ago I was running late but was gonna write a note...then I thought to myself, he won't miss one little note and this way maybe I can get to work on time.
Guess what?!?!?! Guess who called me up the minute he got home wanting to know where his note was! He told me he never realized he liked them til he didn't get one.
Point is: most people have to lose something to appreciate what they had.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Then, because of lame excuses they go out and have affairs. Then, invent lies and all of a sudden start to find defects in their husbands who prior to their infidelity were model husbands, devout Christian and family men. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yea, when we have our affairs we do totally out of character things.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The problem is that there are no laws that punish the behaviour. In other cultures there are severe consequences for the unfaithful spouse and for the other man. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what do you want to do? Stone her?


Win your wife back. I want my husband to try to win me back instead of sticking his head in the ground. I am a sinner of the worst kind - done something awful. But I pray my husband forgives, and maybe somewhere deep inside your wife feels the same way.

There are many reasons, but most of them fall into a few categories, though I am not sure I can enumerate them all. Our marriage counselor wrote a book on the subject that described 5 types of affairs. My wife had one that was similar to two in the book, but not exactly either one of them, and one of those two was a type that supposedly "only" men had. You are 100% to blame for the state of your marriage before the affair, just as she was 100% responsible for the state of your marriag ebefore the affair. If your wife was a liar all along, you still bear a large responsibility for the state of your marriage.

To give you an exampe of this: My wife said we had a good marriage, and said I was "The Greatest Husband in the World" to me, our friends, and the OM. Was I even being faithful to God's commands to husbands about how to treat their wives? No. Why did I believe her and not God? Why did I ignore God's instructions? Yes, I was a good husband. No I was not obedient. Would my obedience have prevented her affair? I don't know, but it would have made our marriage better.

Harley is often mis-interpreted as blaming the BS for an affair because "The BS did not meet the WS's emotional needs". Not meeting your spouse's EN's does not cause an affair. My EN's were not being met in my marriage (I sure as heck did not call HER the "Greatest Wife in the World"), and I did not have an affair. Not meeting your spouse's EN's causes a lousy marriage. To vastly over-simplify, affairs are caused primarily by having inappropriate physical and emotional boundaries in your relationships with the opposite sex. At some point, you cross a line that should not be crossed, usually not recognizing it at the time, and later find yourself in a situation where you don't want to stop.

Don't lose your faith because of what happened. It wouldn't be worth it. Ask God to help you and HE will.

Even though I was the BH in my first marriage, I don't think its fair that women should be singled out for having affairs. Yes the rate of female infidelity has risen in the last decade where it is very close to that of male infidelity, but we men as a group have nothing to gloat over or feel morally superior to women. Dr Harley in his book 'Surviving An Affair' said that almost everybody can fall into an affair if the right circumstances are present for it, and that includes women AND men.

TF: The important question for you is why YOUR WIFE had an affair. If you want to restore your marriage, you will need to find a way to be sure that this will not be repeated. If you don't understand why the affair happened, it is very difficult to be sure it will not be repeated, because the answers to "Why?" determine what measures you must take to make your marriage safe for you. If you work the Harley plan, your marriage will be pretty darn safe. In our case, we were unable or unwilling to adopt it in all its details, and so I needed more understanding to feel safe enough to be willing to stay married.

When my wife and I read "Torn Asunder" together, did the exercises, and discussed what was written, we went a long way toward figuring out why she had an affair. The first book we read after DDay was "Surviving an Affair", which gave us a very clear view of what was wrong in our marriage. Working on fixing those things, combined with the new honesty between us brought on by her confession, made our marriage much better, almost instantly. But it did not really answer the "Why?" question. Sure, we could say "I didn't meet her needs, so she turned to someone else to meet them.", but she had been doing a much worse job at meeting my needs than I was at meeting hers for YEARS before the affair started, and I did not have an affair. She did not have an affair the first 7 years we were married, and our marriage was in about the same basic state back then, too. So, while it was clear that unmet emotional needs was an important factor, and it was no surprise that the OM was meeting her two most important EN's very well, unmet emotional needs were not the "cause" of her affair. "Torn Asunder" helped us to understand "the rest of the story".

For more tools that helped us, click on the link in my signature line.

I agree that you should not let HER sin destroy YOUR faith, BTW.

I am not sure why women or even men cheat. I found out over 8 months ago about my wife's temporary loss of sanity and still am having trouble forgiving her. Since I am not a religious person I do find it funny that the church supposedly forgives the cheater ASAP even when it is one of the ten commandments. I thought those were unforgivable sins. I guess that view limited the number of people giving 10% on Sunday so they had to losen the rules. I am glad murder isn't more common or it would probably be so easily forgiven also. Yes I am venting but my points hit home. I have worked my [censored] off for our marriage before and after finding out. All I can come up with is a woman who seemed to love telling me lies and didn't even think of me when she was with the other man. Even wanted to have her third child with the other man. Became enraged at me when she became pregnant with our third child and pretty much ended the close part of their relationship. I am now looked upon to forgive not only her but the piece of scum that she had her A with. Well I hope one day I will be able to do at least half of that but forgiving him is an act that will never happen.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I thought those were unforgivable sins. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nope. You say you are not religious, so maybe it is better to speak of those things which you know. If you had investigated things, you would know this is not the case. The other thing that is not clear from these posts is that forgiveness and reconciliation are two very different things. Christians are COMMANDED to forgive. It is not optional. Reconciliation requires some reassurance that the sin will not be repeated. Much more of the burden of reconciliation is on the offending party rather than the offended party. (In the case of murder, reconciliation and forgiveness are not possible, are they?) As for forgiving the OM: I wouldn't worry about it too much. It is your wife that betrayed you, not the OM. He made you no vow of fidelity.

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

A few comments on forgiveness. Forgivness requires that the wrongdoer repent and do his or her best to avoid the sin. It is not a one-way street. Forgiveness does not require that one assocaite with or reconcile with the other person. Especially if the other person is still sinning against God and us.

If the OM in my WW affair were to repent, stop the A, and ask for my forgiveness, I would forgive him. However, I would not associate with him or wish to see him again. Alas, the OM is an arrogant jerk who probably thinks I should ask him for forgivness. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> !!!

As far as church teaching, I can only say that my pastor upholds the sacred covenent that is our marriage. I seem to recal Jesus tellng forgiven sinners to "go and sin no more". That just about says it all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by johnh39:
<strong> It is your wife that betrayed you, not the OM. He made you no vow of fidelity. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, Johnh39 that may not be true in some cases. In my marriage the OM was present and actually had a small part to play in the ceremony. I reread our ceremony. As part of the congretation he promised to support our marrige! OK, that promise may not be as strong as a vow, but still, before God, he did make that promise. Therefore, he has betrayed both my wife and I. What a jerk! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: auto009988 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Forgivness equires that the wrongdoer repent and do his or her best to avoid the sin. It is not a one-way street.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I personally, would have to disagree with this statement. For ME to even begin to heal I had to forgive my former wife. Without forgiveness, God could not and would not be able to work on me.

Without me forgiving her I was destined to a life of bitterness and anger because of the thoughts and images that entered my mind at the most awful of times.

Has she asked for fogiveness? Nope

Does she even think that she needs to be forgiven? Probably not, at least not toady.

Have I forgiven her? A "I'm working on it and almost to a yes" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Have we reconciled? Nope.....and will not unless there is repentance and asking for forgiveness.


Well.....reconciled probably means many things. Reconciled to the point that she can tolerate my presence for the sake of the children. But nothing more than that.

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Trusting Her ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Trusting Her:

<strong>Forgivness requires that the wrongdoer repent and do his or her best to avoid the sin. It is not a one-way street.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I personally, would have to disagree with this statement. For ME to even begin to heal I had to forgive my former wive. Without forgiveness, God could not and would not be able to work on me.

Without me forgiving her I was destined to a life of bitterness and anger because of the thoughts and images that entered my mind at the most awful of times.

Has she asked for fogiveness? Nope

Does she even think that she needs to be forgiven? Probably not, at least not toady.

Have I forgiven her? A "I'm working on it and almost to a yes" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Have we reconciled? Nope.....and will not unless there is repentance and asking for forgiveness.


Well.....reconciled prabably means many things. Reconciled to the point that she can tolerate my presence for the sake of the children. But nothing more than that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My sentiments exactly.

Forgiveness requires letting go of the 'need' for compensation from the offender which may or may never arrive. This 'need' over time can become corrosive to one's soul and destroy him/her as well as the people closest to him/her.

Forgiveness was never intended for the benefit of the offender, it is and will forever be for the benefit of the offended.

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

==

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Forgivness requires that the wrongdoer repent and do his or her best to avoid the sin. It is not a one-way street. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree, but so what? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> In my marriage the OM was present and actually had a small part to play in the ceremony. I reread our ceremony. As part of the congretation he promised to support our marrige </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, so he owes both you and your wife an apology. Just don't hold your breath waiting for one

TH and TMCM. Yeah. You're right. I was being to much of a hard guy. Sorry. I guess it's the phase I am going through. Depression - Anger - hope. What a ride!

In my case, my spouse had the freedom or the choice to work or stay at home with the children. She did work part time to be able to spend time with the children. I adored her and used to be thrilled to do things for her, to get her breakfast in bed, to give her little presents, cards with love messages or flowers when she least expected it. I would like to come up from behind and hug her and give her a kiss. If I noticed that she needed a break from the children, I gladly took the children with me so she could do what she wanted. I took her on trips all over the world. She wanted something and I would do my best to do it or get it. I wanted to see her happy and made sure that her emotional needs were met. She has a very short fuse and the smallests things can trigger her anger and everyone had to pay regardless of the cause. During her affair she became worse, she was very irritable and became verbally abusive. Now, she wants to patch things up and a marriage is like a fine crystal. How can it be patched once it is broken? How can the trust be regained? How can one fall in love with a person once you know what she has done and is capable of doing? A person who has no regard for the well-being of others and is so selfish and immoral is difficult to trust. She can be loved, but with agape type of love not the type of love that brings couples together as husband and wife.

I don't believe that a marriage is like a fine crystal. If it was I doubt if any marriages would survive much past the honeymoon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Years ago a friend's house was destroyed by an earthquake in California (The Northridge Quake). He rebuilt a new house. He built it to the new earthquake codes, reinforced the chimney, made it stronger, even added more electical plugs for all his gadgets, a deck with a BBq Pit and more. It was a better house. It was a more enjoyable and livable house.

I hope and pray that you and I can rebuild not the same marriages, but better ones.

<small>[ November 19, 2003, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: auto009988 ]</small>

If my choice after the affair was to go back to our pre-affair marriage or divorce, I would have chosen divorce. If it could not be better, I was not interested. Besides, the affair killed the old marriage anyway.