I found out about a month ago that my wife was having an affair with a guy who lives about 600 miles away. She spent some time in Virginia this summer taking care of her mother who was undergoing breast cancer treatment. While she was down there she got involved with a man. He came up to visit her about a month ago and that is when I found out. I know many of you understand the pain I feel. We have two boys (11&10) that we adopted from Russia 7 years ago. I have tried to get counseling but every time I make an appointment she cancels it. The other night I was talking to her and told her to think about how any decision she makes is going to affect the kids and I. She looked at me with a straight face and told me that she didn’t think that the boys would be hurt that badly if we split up. I said that it isn’t as if we are going to be living across town from another we will be living 600 miles apart. She insists that the boys would be fine. At this point I understood why I have had such a hard time talking to her. If she honestly believes that no harm will be done to the boys by this move her thought process isn’t even based in reality. Her thoughts are based in fantasy. She is planning on breaking up her family to run off with some guy she just met this summer. I realize that I have made mistake as a husband and I understand what many of those mistakes are now and I’ve told her that and I have told her that I want to fix these things, go to counseling and fix our marriage, but she wants nothing to do with it. She refuses to let me get close to her, she won’t even try. She has got this guy on her brain and she isn’t thinking straight, everyone can see this but her. I have found out that she plans on leaving sometime early next year, (she doesn’t know I know this) I want to use what time I have left to convince her to stay but how can you reason with someone who’s thought process isn’t based in reality? I pray constantly and I have great prayer support from friends at church and my family, but I just don’t know if there is any way I can talk to her when she refuses to acknowledge the obvious. Does anyone have any suggestions? I have been working on plan A but I am afraid to go to plan B. I am afraid that if I move out it will work against me if I try to get custody later. I hate to think like that but with her going so far away I don’t want to take any chances of loosing my boys. I would hate for them to have to move to Virginia and live with some guy I don’t even know, that she don't even know. Any advice would be great; I just don’t know what to do anymore.

Welcome to lala land. Your wife has the classic signs of being in the fog. They all have their little fantasy to preserve and then they rewrite the marriage history, don't notice all the heartache they are causing, and continue to act irrationally. It does no good to reason with them. It does no good to argue with them. Start in Plan A and show her by your actions what a good marriage you could have. Try to do this several months, and don't expect her to care about you or fill any of your EN's. Come here for support, where you will find caring people who are not in fantasyland. Good luck and hang in there for your boys.

Russkie
You've come to the right place and listen to what believer has to say. You're WW is in the classic fog that everyone talks about around here. My suggestions are:
1. If you are a Christian start praying immediately for yourself, the boys, and WW. Also reading the psalms has been quite helpful for me.
2. Read as much as possible on this site, there have been many success stories here and lots of people who relate to what you're going through.
3. Consider the following buying either of the books Surviving An Affair or Torn Asunder, getting individual counseling and anti-depressants.
4. Post and read as much here as you can. There are lots of caring people here who will read about your life and offer support as best they can.

It's a long hard road ahead but you aren't alone, come here for support when you need it. Best wishes.

Russkie the next time your W tells you that the marriage is over, please consider conveying to her the following in a calm and soothing voice:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Honey, I want our marriage to work. But you’re right, it’s not working. I’ll help you move out."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That’s it! Why would you say this to her? Because resisting, begging, and pleading to get your wife to change her mind only challenges her more strongly to get her way. These words will give her the impression that you are not going to fight anymore about anything. In effect, you are calling her bluff. Once you agree to a divorce, all the tough work of what is involved in the divorce will land straight on her shoulders. She will be facing the prospect of possibly living alone, and of going through the legal matters of a divorce. Also, by using these words, you will be clearly indicating that you are taking responsibility for your part in what went wrong with the marriage. Instead of having an argument with her, simply telling her "You are right" can have a wonderful healing effect. And you'll be showing her that you are NOT afraid of losing her which will definitely be a show of strength and courage on your part.

Remember russkie that it ain't over until all the i's and t's have been dotted and crossed and that has yet to happen, hasn't it?

I would also like to suggest that you read Michelle Weiner Davis's Divorce Busting 180 degre list:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore with her.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

ALL of these things will make you a much more attractive individual because it will show her that you are NOT afraid of moving on with your life without her and it will burst her beleif that she can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM.

<small>[ November 21, 2003, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Thank you everyone for your responses, today she informed me that she had no desire to save our marriage and that she would be leaving even if there were no OM. She told me I need to except it and try to start moving on. I guess I gave her the "I'll help you pack" line. For the first time instead of trying to convince her to stay I asked if she had talked to a lawyer or if she knew what her plans were yet. She told me she hasn't talked to a lawyer and that it would be the beginning of the year before she would be ready to go, we also agreed not to say anything to the boys until after Christmas, I don't see any reason to ruin their Christmas. I still don't know what to do; I guess I'll take your advice TMCM since I’ve already started down that road. I printed off the 180 degree list and I’ll try to stick to it although so far today I haven’t been doing so well. Would counseling for me alone do any good? I guess it couldn’t hurt. I thought about anti-depressants but I’ve never taken prescription drugs before. Thanks again, I keep you posted on my progress.

Russkie: there are many here who have been in a similar situation and managed to restore their marriage. Eventually, of course, your wife will have to participate, but there is much you can do in the meantime to increase the odds that she will change her mind. Read below: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. Your situation is harder, but your chances of saving your marriage and actually making it better than before are still good. But, whether your spouse is "on board" or not, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I have found out that she plans on leaving sometime early next year

GET A FAMILY ATTORNEY NOW.... don't wait!

You don't need to tell her about meeting with an attorney.

You don't need to file papers.

You DO need to get informed about your legal rights in your state.

Do NOT NOT NOT sit and watch as she leaves with YOUR boys!

NO!

You get your legal ducks lined up RIGHT NOW, so that if the need arises, you are ready to pull the trigger on your legal rights at a moments notice.

Do NOT allow her to move YOUR sons into the home of a stranger! He may be a predator for all you know.

Get informed to protect your kids. Do it right away.

Pep

Wow russkie --- wow! You have gotten some of the best responses that I have seen on here. You will find love and support here. I am in situation that is similar to yours except that my wife has already moved out and filed for D. She says that we are incompatible, doesn't have any more love to give me, she is dead to me, the OM is only a friend - nothing has happened, that we should never have been married - she initiated all contact in stubborness against God.....etc....etc...

Take it from someone who has and continues to react on emotions - they do not work. You cannot reason with them because they have already figured everything out and know that this time it will work because the OM shows so much compassion and interest in them. My WW feels that she is going to marry this guy who is seperated from his Spouse. Anyways - there is a really really good book by Dr. Ed Wheat - called Love Life. Another good one is Spirital Warfare in the Marriage by Bill Stonebraker. I have been reading these while focusing on God to meet my needs. I cannot say I have arrived and even today I said something I thought was harmless and she blew up on me.

Keep the faith! Pray...be devoted to prayer! Our weapon is not a physical one but a spiritual one that can rightly divide the truth!

Thank you everyone for your post, all of you have very good advice. Yesterday morning for the first time we talked about arranging a split up. She admitted that she would like to leave in the next two to three months. She said she wasn’t going to move in with OM, she would probably move in with her grandmother. She wants the boys to stay here with me for the rest of the school year and have them come down with her for most of the summer. She talked as if she has no problem having the boys stay with me most of the year (including the school year) she knows that the country setting we live in now would be much better for them than the city. She says she don’t want half my stuff, she don’t want me to have to sell the house because she wants the boys to live here. She says she doesn’t hate me and that I didn’t do anything she wants to make me “pay” for. She told me I was a good man and a good father and that anything she did to hurt me would hurt the boys too. The reason she is waiting to leave is because of Christmas and we are having money problems now but we should be in the clear by then, she don’t want to leave me strapped for cash. It is so hard to talk about these things, at least for me it was. I could barely keep my composure while she sat there all business like. It is almost like she has no emotions at all, I don’t think she has shed a tear since this whole thing started while I’m a basket case all day. I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by talking about this with her I feel like by talking like this she thinks I have come to accept things but I haven’t I am in constant prayer, praying for wisdom so that I will know how to handle every situation, and for strength to get through this it seems like my emotions drain all the energy out of me everyday and then every morning I have to muster up enough energy to get through another day. I pray for her to open her mind and her heart, I pray that “the fog” will be lifted and she will see what she is doing. I’m thinking about the anti-depressants, maybe I need something to help me think more clearly. I have made an appointment with a lawyer for Monday morning (our 14th anniversary, ironic) but after talking with her yesterday I may postpone it. I don’t know what I should do, I don’t like giving her the impression I have accepted this and I’m moving on, but I hope that TMCM is right and that maybe when things start moving and she gets closer to actually leaving it will start to sink in and she will realize what she is doing. I don’t know. In the meantime I will just keeping working on things on my end, continue to read this site and stay in prayer. I guess that is all I can do for now.

Russkie the mistake I see you making is that you take everything she tells you as the Gospel truth. A foggy WS's credibility is lower than that of a politician's. Today she says one thing but tomorrow she may say the complete opposite, so don't beleive anything she tells you.

You can only do your part to save your marriage and that means Plan A which is avoiding love busters (angry outbursts, selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, dishonesty). But don't obsess in trying to meet any of her EN's(emotional needs) because she won't let you. Go see a doctor and have him/her prescribe you anti-depressants so that you can get control of your emotions which could sabotage your efforts to save your marriage by pushing you to love bust her. Beleive me when I tell you that anti-d's were a lifesaver for yours truly when I was trying to deal with my XWW(first W) on going infidelities.

Lastly, no matter what the outcome of your marriage, you and your kids WILL make it through this ordeal which is more than I can say for your WW.

Keep lawyer appointment and get some anti-D's. Mine (Paxil) worked in 2 days with no side effects. Now I can at least do the things I need to do. Take heart, things are going to get better.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong>
You can only do your part to save your marriage and that means Plan A which is avoiding love busters (angry outbursts, selfish demands, disrespectful judgements, dishonesty). But don't obsess in trying to meet any of her EN's(emotional needs) because she won't let you. Go see a doctor and have him/her prescribe you anti-depressants so that you can get control of your emotions which could sabotage your efforts to save your marriage by pushing you to love bust her. Beleive me when I tell you that anti-d's were a lifesaver for yours truly when I was trying to deal with my XWW(first W) on going infidelities.

Lastly, no matter what the outcome of your marriage, you and your kids WILL make it through this ordeal which is more than I can say for your WW. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ruskie,
Your situation is similar to mine except that my children are young adults. Yet, the affair and a divorice will devestate them nonetheless. My wife also tells me that she wishes me no ill will and wants the best for me. But, the OM is the man who makes her come alive, etc.

They think their affair and their reasons for it are so special and unique, but your wife and my wife could be reading the same script! So much for that "special" relationship.

I was on the verge of an emotional breakdown and started taking anti-depressants. I did not want to do that but the reality was and is that I cannot function at work or at home without them. We (you and I) have had our hearts ripped out and stomped on, our lives destroyed, our futures tossed in the trash, and it was done by the person we loved and trusted the most in this world. Is it any wonder we are depressed? Get help in the form of counseling and the anti-D's.


TMCM makes another good point when he talks about your making it through this and your kids also. It the WW that will suffer the most. She will have to look at the damage and pain caused by the affair and divorce (if that happens) realize that she caused it, she chose it and she could have prevented it by doing what was right and good. It is my hope that by being strong we can prevent these WW's from making that tragic mistake.

I have made an appointment with a lawyer for Monday morning (our 14th anniversary, ironic) but after talking with her yesterday I may postpone it. I don&#8217;t know what I should do, I don&#8217;t like giving her the impression I have accepted this and I&#8217;m moving on...

Maybe having your appointment Monday morning is the jolt she needs. Giving her the impression that you have moved on just maybe what it takes to wake her up. Agreeing with her decision to go through with this may make her stop and think. I know it feels wrong. Consider it your 180. She may be expecting you to make it another day because it is your anniversary. If this is REALLY what she wants it shouldn't bother her. If it does, you may have the break your looking for. It sounds like she seems to have everything under control. This may be a front. I'd say go ahead with Monday's appointment, then sit back and watch her reaction.

Thanks to everyone for your advice, I read your words with care and I appreciate your support. I realize many of you have been through this before, auto our situations sound similar to mine so I know how you feel. I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy, not even OM.

I did go to the doctor yesterday and got some anti-d’s and started taking them. Hopefully I’ll start feeling better in a few days. My doctor’s appointment went long so I missed my lawyer’s appointment but I am going to see him soon. Sunday my wife told me that her folks had been asking her to come down for Thanksgiving and asked if it would be okay if she went down there until the weekend. I told her I didn’t want her to but that I couldn’t tie her up and lock her in the closet, so if she wanted to go she might as well go. She knows this might be the last holiday season we will be able to spend together as a family and she chooses to go spend Thanksgiving with her parents (and by parents I mean boyfriend). She actually told me she wasn’t planning on seeing him while she was down there, but when I called last night to see if she got down there safely her mother told me she wasn’t there but that she made it to the “area” alright, which means she was off with him already. Last night was hard, knowing where she was and who she was with and what they were doing. I guess if she ends up leaving for good I going to have numb myself to those thoughts.

I’m going to take the advice of TMCM and SAB, I’m going to talk to a lawyer and start things rolling so she will have something to think about. When I asked her if she has seen a lawyer yet she said she hadn’t and said she wasn’t in a hurry to rush through a divorce. That tells me maybe she isn’t as sure about this as she tells me she is. Maybe when she actually has to start the process she will step back and think about how selfish of a move this is and that she is going to hurt everyone around her, even herself, but mostly her kids. Any advice would be great, thanks to everyone who has replied to my post, your support has been a big help. It is nice to know there is someone out there who knows how this must feel. Sometime it seems like I’m all alone. My mother told me last night to remember that nothing happens in a Christian’s life without God allowing it to happen. God may not of caused this but he did allow it to happen to me and he wouldn’t put me through this pain with out a reason. I wish I knew how this was going to end and what the reason for this was but I need to remember that there is a reason for it. Thank you everyone for your support.

I&#8217;m going to talk to a lawyer and start things rolling so she will have something to think about. When I asked her if she has seen a lawyer yet she said she hadn&#8217;t and said she wasn&#8217;t in a hurry to rush through a divorce.

I would say yes, talk to a lawyer and find out what options are open to you. However, I would not proceed with anything legal yet. If she wants a D and end your R, fine, let her do all the dirty work. But do move on with your life and concentrate on being the best person you can be. Plan A for all your worth. In the meantime leave her be. Pretend that she doesn't exist if you have to. When you do see her Plan A. Then if she still won't give up the OM, go to Plan B. I get the feeling though that this might not be the last holiday you have together.

What are you doing for you? How are the anti-Ds?

Russkie I'm sorry that she chose to spend Thanksgiving with the OM instead of with you and the kids. It shows how fogged up she truly is.

As far as your meeting with an attorney, I would like to suggest that you ask him about whether your State is one where legal separation is allowed. If it is, ask him if you filed for it FIRST, would it permit you to stay in the house with your kids while barring your WW from it? This is important because there can be no Plan B if your WW steadfastly refuses to leave the home. Once you get the info then you can start to form a legally allowable plan of action.

It’s been awhile since I’ve made a post on my string but a lot has happened since then. First thanks to everyone for their advice you all have been a huge help through all of this. The last time I posted here my w was down in Virginia spending Thanksgiving (and our anniversary) with her parents and OM. This was a difficult week to say the least. I started my anti-ds that week and they seem to be helping a lot, I can think a lot clearer now. Before my w left she made it clear to me that she had no desire to stay with me, she said that out marriage could not be fixed and that the sooner I started to except the fact that she was leaving the easier it would make it on us. While she was gone I started to think that way, I started thinking about all the things I was going to have to do to prepare for her leaving. It was a tough week I’m glad I got my meds when I did. My w came home on Saturday and on Sunday she started to tell me that she wasn’t 100% sure she wanted to leave, she said she still thought she wanted to but started to ask herself questions about the kids and what if she discovers it was a big mistake after she leaves then what? I don’t know what happened while she was down there to make her rethink things, her friend told me that my w told her that everything went okay down there, she just started to realize that OM isn’t prince charming and that the idea of living so close to her family isn’t all that appealing. (her family is dysfunctional, her mother is actually encouraging this whole thing) I don’t want her to stay because it is the least awful of her options, I want her to want to be here. Last night she told me that I have gotten a lot further with her than she ever thought I would, ten days ago she had her mind made up she was leaving and at least now she is not sure. I told her yesterday that is she stays and we get some help and we work on things and in six months or a year things don’t look like they are making any progress then she can still leave but if she leaves now and in six months or a year decides that it was a mistake, I told her she can’t come back. She seemed to see the logic in this, which is big because she would have never of listened to that just a week ago. We don’t talk about OM, I know she spent time with him last week in Virginia and I know she still talks to him everyday, I don’t know if I should ask her to cut ties with him or hope that she will want to on her own. I think if I ask her to it will make her more determined to keep their relationship going. She hasn’t agreed to counseling yet but yesterday she was a lot more open to it than she has been. I think her fog is starting to lift but I also think she is still leaning toward leaving. She says my meds have helped a lot and that I am much easier to talk to now and I’m in a much better mood. Any advice on how to handle things now would be great, thanks to everyone.

As long as she keeps in touch with the OM there will be no progress with rebuilding the marriage. NC must be the first step for your wife to help clear her head and focus on working on the marriage. This should be one of your conditions for allowing her to stay in the marriage. Having an affair is a symptom of her disrespect for you. If you allow her to treat you like a doormat it will further decrease her respect for you and in the end destroy what is left of the marriage.

I am the WS. Your WW probably isn't sure she wants to go now....but if I were you, I still wouldn't believe everything she tells you. The reason I say this is because me - being the WS - can feel one way one minute and another way a few minutes later. It is very confusing.

Remember how you said you couldn't think clear, but now you are on the meds and you are thinking clearer? Well, that's how it is when you are a WS...confusion 24/7. I'm just telling you to be on your guard.

I will say this: the fact that she is having doubts about leaving is a GREAT sign...even though I am in my A, I can tell you that I have NOT wanted to leave my H since the beginning. I am just so addicted to OM that I can't kick the habit (so to speak).


For everyone that reads this:
1) Do you think that those kinds of meds would clear up the mind of the WS enough to be able to even make the decision to go back home? My mind feels like it is on overdrive all the time and completely out of control.

2) Also, are there any "support" groups for people trying to end affairs? I keep thinking "Cheaters Anonymous" or something like that. They seem to have a twelve step program for everything else. I just know I can't do this alone. I need help.

Thanks.

Russki,

I would STRONGLY urge you to see a lawyer, and get separation agreement sorted out. I would do it NOW.

You are seeing the seesaw your W's thinking is going through. You need to protect from her taking the boys. She can right now. You could come home from work and find them gone and you can do nothing about it. You cannot believe anything she says now: good or bad.

So my advice is to simply listen to her, and pay attention to her actions. Her actions say she is in the affair and she will leave. You don't want her there anyway if she is in daily contact with OM. Be polite, be kind, help her anyway you can, AND PREPARE TO MOVE ON. You need to have your ducks in a row. Get a separate checking account, and start to move money there, get a credit cards under control, and most of all TALK to a lawyer. NOW.

You have no idea what she will do or decide. It is clear she wasn't happy in the marriage and hopefully your changes and constant plan A (no LB's) are making a difference, but you cannot believe how selfish a WS can be, so protect yourself and your children right NOW.

Even if you never us the separation agreement, it is wise to have one, and it is wise to have her sign it even if it is never put into affect. IF your state allows them (sep agreement) use it.

IT sounds as if you are doing well in your plan a, but prepare yourself. The down time after Jan 1, is a time of more depression and your W may well want to seek the bright lights of the OM.

Please quit putting this off.

God Bless,

JL