<small>[ July 29, 2004, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: Dissapointed ]</small>

I'd have to answer, why not you?

This is very common, please don't take this the wrong way, but maybe God wanted you to learn to accept the fallen of the world. You know, let he who is without sin throw the first stone. When I was younger I was also very rightous. Several things happened in my life to change me and I realized that I too was a sinner. If you are a true Christian, you have to find forgiveness. You cannot throw this in her face all the time, it has to eventually be put behind or you WILL loose her. You were too busy to go on the trip. She was wrong to have an affair. Nothing about an affair is right, but you must first admit the facts to yourself. I do not want to come down hard on you, but I was in your shoes two years ago and have learned a great deal. Please learn from this site. If you cannot forgive her, then let her go. This cannot be a life sentence. I won't lie to you, it still hurts over 2 years later. It will never, ever be the same. It has to be a more mature, evolved marriage. You will really have to open your heart. If you forgive and she still loves you you will be rewarded as she will make it up to you for the rest of your life. Your family will grow stronger with both a mother and a father. This is not a test of her faith, it is a test of yours.

May God bless you and give you peace. May he open your heart to forgiveness and help you to heal with each day. May you feel the sunshine on your face and feel God's love. May you look at your wife and know that she is only human and made a terrible mistake that I am sure she is very sorry for. Peace-Jersey Girl

You sound like a wonderful husband whose wife did not know how good she had it. She was deceived and fell - it is that simple. Satan is the author of such sadness and destruction. Yes, God allowed it since He is sovereign - but same questions can be asked about all sin, disease, tragedies. Why, God?

You sound like a wonderful husband and father. BUILD ON THAT!

Others can take it from here.

I am a BS. And I will be coming down hard on you.

You know I felt like I was a good husband too. My wife even told me so and that our marriage problems were all with her and not me. But you know what? I wasn't. Just because I thought I was a good husband did not make it so. Just because I was doing everything that a husband was supposed to do, did not make it so. So often we are taught to follow a particular script in our marriage: the husband is responsible for X and the wife is responsible for Y. But people to dont fit into neat little packaged roles. Everybody's needs and expectations are different. I cannot possibly condone the EA my wife was/is in. I cannot put to words the pain I have felt because of it. But I am responsible for the condition the marriage was in that lead to the EA.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
"Since I would have never considered anyone with an immoral past when I was single, I now feel trapped in having to accept that because we have small children...I am still struggling in all aspects of my life and wonder how or why God
allowed for someone like that in my life. "
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I another thread you said that your W is in counseling and that your believer her problems are at the root of the issue.

WAKE UP.

Your W is with an IC looking to change herself so that she may find your forgiveness, what are YOU doing? I am certain you are praying for her. But have you dared look at yourself? Have you had the courage to understand what made your wife vulnerable to to an A?

As far as why did God allow someone like that in your life? Listen to Jersey Girl. God does not make mistakes, people make mistakes. ALL OF US.

ok, I'll try and set the 2X4 down.

The disrespect you are expressing for your W now, while it may vent your anger and pain will only work to destroy your wife's love. She may stay with you out of guilt or religious obligation but she won't be happy and your marriage won't be happy.

Look, affairs are selfish, hurtful, self indulgent ways to deal with unhappiness in a marriage. As unjust, unfair and painful as it may be, in order to recover we have to look at the M and at ourselves in order to make it stronger.

When my wife and I were dating, I used to think I was the best friend a person could have. I had been lead to believe this by many friends by good friends. Truth is that I had been in the past but I was growing but not growing up. The greatest thing my W ever did for me, was to use the figurative 2x4 and show me just how much more growing I needed to do. I love her for that.

Remember, we are all sinners, we are all weak and flawed individuals. We are all capable of the worst and... if we think we are not, we are just more vulnerable to it. If we do not understand that we cannot begin to rise above it and become truly strong.

I know it really hurts and you can't understand why but just try. Jersey Girl is right, you faith is being tested, right now. Rise to meet that test.

Many prayers for both of you,

JGNC

<small>[ November 25, 2003, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: jgnc ]</small>

<small>[ July 29, 2004, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: Dissapointed ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Why me?:

When we dated, she deceived me several times and I forgave her because I truly loved her.........
When you say that I will lose her, I am not sure I ever had her wholly since the OM is someone from her past (one of those deceits of her) and several things make me suspect that she never let go of that feeling.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This deception that pre-dates your marriage is a huge red flag that your W has some personal issues. IF she is serious about wanting to rebuild the marriage then she needs to address these issues through therapy in order to resolve them. The fact that you forgave her more than once, left her with the impression that you would do so again (which you did). If you keep this pattern of forgiving her without any effort on her part to change, then you are enabling her behavior. You MUST establish the non negotiable boundary that never again will you allow her to deceive you and be willing to enforce the consequences (divorce) if she does violate it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
To JGNC: You are very hard, but have some good points. I am not sure our situation is similar. It may be true that in some cases the BS is in part to blame due to neglect, abuse, etc. although nothing would excuse adultery. IT IS WRONG, PERIOD! It is true that we are all sinners, but one should never be so selfish as to act or be involved in something that would harm another person, especially one who loves you.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was very hard, for that I apologize. I let some personal experiences in the past affect my language. Nothing excuses your wife's infidelity. I do not mean to imply that the affair is in any way your fault. We are not responsible for the choice our WS made, but we are responsible for the conditions in the marriage that facilitated their fall. Understanding this requires some hard scrutiny at a time when pain and pride fog our own minds.

Can you list what your wife's most important emotional needs are? and do you know how well you have met them? Are you controlling or comit disrespectful judgements? You would be surprised how easy it is to do so. It does not seem to take abuse or neglect to cause an affair, just ignorance of one or 2 of her most important needs.
Please, look closer...

TooMuchCoffeeMan does have a very good point. I am not saying that you should forgive unconditionally or that she does not have issues to work out w/ an IC.

Like you my wife's OM is someone from her past and I am also wondering if I ever really had her, if she really believed in the vows she took or if they were just words spoken in a pretty dress. But your wife, it seems, is looking to resolve those issues. So why not take an honest look at what you have been doing? Never give her a reason again. If my wife was in IC or committed to MC... I'd be doing cartwheels.

The Christian counselor who told you it was "your fault" is simply wrong. It was her choice to have an affair, not yours. Poor marriage couselors are so common it is really depressing.

I think you may find our story enlightening. I used to think that people who had affairs were not really Christians. Then the Holy Spirit finally got through to my wife, and she confessed her affair to me. It sort of shook up my view of things, to put it mildly. A good part of our story is found at After the Affair. The article I wrote about our recovery starts about 1/3 of the way down the HTML page, and has the title: "After the Affair: a perspective on the road to recovery"

I also think that you will find it helpful to click on the link in my signature line, though there is some duplication between that and the article referenced above.

Why Me,

Allow me to offer you a different point of view. I will accept that you were a good husband, and that you thought you were meeting your W's needs, and had you known what she really needed you would have met those as well.

One of the startling things about the founder of this site, is his realization that often well intentioned people fail to meet their spouses needs, not because the wouldn't but because they didn't understand what they were, or how the wanted them met. Sort of like me buying my W, my favorite chocolates for Valentines day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Harley also states very clearly that the failure to meet needs NEVER causes the affair. The affair is caused by the decisions of the wayward spouse. However, he states that the status of the marriage, or more accurately the "preceived" status of the marriage by the WS can/does affect their decision making.

Your W sounds as if she has personal issues. Then as Coffeeman suggests she needs to address those first. You sound like you are willing to learn. I would like to recommend two books His Needs Her Needs by Harley, and Surviving an Affair by Harley. There are other good books, but these two I have happened to read. So do some reading and I think you will see where you might be able to tune your abilities to meet your W's needs. Yup, there is a questionaire for the both of you to help define what is needed. By the way these needs change, I would bet Honesty would be near the top of yours right now.

Finally, I would suggest that you consider anti-D's for awhile to get you through this huge emotional rollercoaster. Talk with a Doc and see what they think. It might help you while your W is getting her act together.

Please read Coffeeman's post to you again. The issue of boundaries is key here. If she won't agree to boundaries that protect you, then you have another decision to make.

Finally, read the articles here on the policy of joint agreement, POJA, and "radical honesty". I think they may help you two negotiate what is to be the fate of your marriage. By the way, you are not trapped, you can divorce. I realize it is not optimal but neither is the alternative unless things do change.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ July 29, 2004, 08:38 PM: Message edited by: Dissapointed ]</small>

why me,

In truth I tell you I can relate to your situation a great deal. It sounds like you and your wife have a lot of issues to work through. Like you I learned to tolerate a horrible temper and abusive language and learned to avoid her temper. As a therapist once told me, I had created an environment where subconciously she knew all she had to do was yell to get her way.
Although my W has been through a lot of counseling and she is much better of now than then, dealing with critisism and anger ares till issues.

I understand your doubts about why she wanted to marry you. It is a hard thing to have to ponder. While my wife was in the depths of the EA she openly wondered if she had gotten married because she had become dependent on me during depression. That is a question that has gone away now.

It is good that she is seeing an IC and it is going to take her time, perhaps a lot of it, to address all of that personal history, how she is affected by it and how she can effect change. It may not be a bad idea for you to see an IC as well. Since you will probably need to change as well so that you no longer support the abusive behavior that was ingrained into her by her abusive mother but do support her emotional growth.

I could never understand how adult children of abusive parents could be abusive themselves. After being with my wife and also examining my own behavior I've come to understand that how our parents treated us will shape how we treat others. That is not an excuse however because once we see the abusive behavior in ourselves it is up to us to make changes. It sounds like your wife is trying to make those changes. This is encouraging.

Finally, some people on this site talk about the message of the affair. Do you know what it was? Do you know what the EA provided her that being with you did not? We may think that we know our spouses very well but we may not. Perhaps you made assumptions about what her needs were or perhaps she never told you or was not aware of them herself. Or perhaps the priorities of her needs changed. If she is going through counseling it would not surprise me if they changed again as she recovers from the damage done to her in her youth.

Time and actions are the only things that will heal and rebuild trust. Since she confessed has she allowed you complete access to her life so that you can begin to heal and rebuild trust? It is incredibly difficult to live w/ the constant nagging question of what else is a lie? Have you looked at the Policy of Radical Honesty? Without complete honesty it will be difficult or impossible to get through a real recovery. But remember LB's, you both need create an environment where it is safe to be completely honest with each other. I'm not going to say this is easy. I'm still there working through all of these same issues just like you are. Despite the anger and depression other stumbles, thing are slowly getting better.

I am a great reader, so I have another book to recommend, which was written by our MC. The reason I recommend it is because of your wife's control issues. The book is called "The State of Affairs" by Todd Mulliken. He looks at the issues of control in marriage and how they tend to affect marriages and influence either the "controller" or "pleaser" to have an affair. I think it may be helpful to you.

<small>[ July 29, 2004, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: Dissapointed ]</small>

<small>[ July 29, 2004, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: Dissapointed ]</small>