Are there some people that are more likely to be involved in infidelity than others? Or, is it anyone whose needs are not being met? I'm beginning to think that some personality types may be at greater risk than others. I'm wondering if people that suffer from depression are more likely to look for destructive ways (infidelity, drug abuse, ect.) to solve their problems. I'm bi-polar and I've notice that many people who suffer from mental illness seem to be attracted to extreme high risk behavior. What does anyone else thing?

Hi Bongo,<P>I would think that depression would most definitely make someone much more prone to this type of behaviour. My H was depressed when he succumbed to his affair. I also think that people that are basically insecure are VERY vulnerable. How do most relationships begin? With a generous amount of attention and compliments. What do most insecure people crave-- attention & compliments. Now, I realize that everybody likes attention, but I think the insecure person tends to overrate the attention, & see it as an affirmation of their self worth. I also think that OPs have a sixth sense so that they can zero in on someone with an insecurity problem like a vulture going in for the kill.

Frank Pittman believes that the problem lies within the betrayer, and how he feels about himself. My H was obviously depressed before he began the affair, and I think he has never felt good about himself.<P>

I definately agree. My H was at the worst point in his life when he strayed. He was very depressed about his job which made his whole world seem like hell to him. I don't know much about personality traits but I would have to say a depressed or insecure person is high risk for that something they think will make them feel better.

Hi, I think that an individuals sense of self worth has a great deal to do with whether or not that person will be unfaithful.<P>Outwardly that person may seem strong and sure of themselves, but inside they have needs that cannot be met by no one but themselves reguardless of the status of the relationship.<P>The problem presents its self because the person believes that these needs can be met by someone else. Ititially it is the spouse that they think will meet these needs, but all it takes is the right situation for that person to start to believe that the spouse can't or is is not willing to meet these needs anymore. This combined with any marital problems that may be present (other needs not being met) is enough.<P>Once they start to feel this way they are vulnerable to EMA thinking that the OP will meet thier needs, regardless of what the intenions of the OP are.<P>Sorry I started to ramble...<P>Done alot of thinking about this topic, and seen it happen too many times to people that I know.<P>What's the line...<P>You can't truely begin to love another if you can't love yourself first<P>Jason

OUCH!! Wow!! This sure hit home!! When H had his affair, it was because I wasn't providing enough attention to him... I retorted that I retreated because HE retreated first. Yah, yah.... well, we both did it (the retreat part, not the affair part,... he managed to resort to that one without my also feeling the need to do so). My H is (outwardly) extremely confident, very successful, MENSA IQ, and perhaps even somewhat "cocky" in an arrogance that I always found rather charming. It had never occured to me until all of our discussions AFTER the affair, that what lurked beneath that exterior was a man who was insecure, in need of reassurance and attention,... he sent "signals" to me letting me know this, and even words (without blatantly admitting he was insecure),....but his exterior persona was so strong, I think I didn't believe him. How could HE,...so strong, so handsome, so smart... POSSIBLY be insecure? Surely I misunderstood? He TRIED to let me know,... I didn't listen.<P>I agree with all the posters here, in that low self-esteem is such a vital factor here in what leads people to stray. The confusing aspect is when this seems to "hide" within someone who on the outside just seems incapable of feeling anything less than self-assured.<P>LISTEN so very carefully, and BELIEVE!! I learned the hard way,... it's words, it's actions, it's the subtleties,... I see my H in such a different light now, and for the first time realize he really DOES need me, and he is NOT as "invinsible" as I once thought....despite his trying to tell me that from the onset.<P>Thank you for this post... it was a reminder I desperately needed to hear tonight,... I've been on a dreadful downwave of tears and rage,... God works in mysterious ways, and my coming to this post was certainly one of them. Thank you again!

I believe depression, low self-esteem, and unresolved family issues from childhood are leading causes for infidelity. I know it was in my wife's case. She still has some unresolved anger for her father (She doubts whether he loved her because he didn't tell her so). She felt put down as the youngest in her family. She felt insecure growing up as a poor farm girl attending a city school. She suffers from depression and has refused medication until our counselor finally convinced her to give it a try. She has been on antidepressants for about 4 months now and is doing well. Now that she admits she has problems and is willing to work on them, we are making progress. It is in a way like an alcoholic or drug addict first having to admit they have a problem before they can be helped.

I have to agree with everything that's been said so far..and I believe that grief over losses is another big contributor..<P>Let's not forget Midlife Crisis..."Can I still attract someone?" "Do I still 'have it' even though I'm getting paunchy, grey, wrinkled, etc."<P>Or what about Obsessive/Compulsive tendencies...where the passing "Gee that person is attractive" becomes "I must conquer that person to be valuable"<P>Ophelia - Are you sure we aren't married to the same super-achiever, good looking, 'how could he need to be reassured?' guy? <BR>I am right there, girlfriend...wondering why I didn't see beneath the bluster a long time ago...but a good therapist and lots of honest communication is pushing us in the direction of happily ever after (with lots more work to come!)<BR><P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

Well so far, it's depression, low self-esteem, unresolved family issues from<BR>childhood, grief over losses, & MLC------ <P>Well my H has/had all five, so he was an affair waiting to happen. Too bad hindsight is 20/20! You know, I'm wondering if suffering from more than one of the above variables, makes terminating the affair that much harder??

My W's stepfather physically and verbally abused her mother and verbally abused her. I think in her this somehow ultimately produced an addiction to sex. Her infidelity started during her 1st marriage with (of all things) her brother-in-law and then her 1st H's best friend. After that, she was unfaithful to most (if not all) of her partners in relationships. She's definitely one f*cked up lady, but manages to come across like Ophelia's H, confident, arrogant, bright, knows what she wants out of life, etc., etc. Inside, I think she has some warped idea that illicit sex can somehow satisfy her cravings for love from a man like her stepfather never gave her. She tends to project her feelings for her SF onto her legitimate partners (like me, her 2nd H) and find "true love" with the OM! Go figure!<P>--Wex

All the above are true and apply in EH case...but what about the supreme sense of power, self and society entitlement and self gratification as a "reward" for business and community respect. In EH case he always needed "things" usually materialistic to make him feel good and feed his self importance and desires (unresolved issues from childhood and mother's death) so the OW was his "payment "to himself.<BR>My EH ALWAYS put his needs in all respects before the childrens and mine, so did not think he was "wrong" as this is what he wanted.

Wex,<BR>It sounds to me like your wife might also be terrified of the intimacy within a committed relationship. No doubt, another byproduct of her dysfunctional relationship with her SF.<P>To have intimacy, you must have trust.

Dear Ophelia--<P>Unlike my husband, your H sounds like the man I had the affair with (Don't think he is though--some differences).<P>Let me tell you--as the OW--that you had it bang on, sweetie and you are a wonderful and decent, caring and kind woman to see it now. I hope your marriage is well on its way to recovery, as is mine since disclosure, thanks to a husband who sounds much as do you!<P>I am your husband--outwardly very bright, intelligent, hard working, charming, witty, philosophical, funny. Etc. Yet what lurked beneath that facade was a lot of pain and yes, plenty of undxed neurobiological disorders -- TS, OCD, ADHD, depression, panic disorder.<P>I didn't learn until last year (at age 37) how disordered and truly ill I was. I was also abused as a child and my *core* beliefs were that I was basically a *bad* person, incapable of being loved.<P>Dx/treatment and management of those disorders which unknowingly haunted me all my life (save the depression--that was pretty obvious even to me--the rest I could hide) was a step in the right direction.<P>But I met OM as the process of being treated, diagnosed and managed was just beginning. In him, I found a mirror image of myself...my inner self, whom I showed no one because I was too afraid to show anyone. He understood. He could relate. We shared commonalities. It didn't *hurt* to share with him. Explaining the *brain pain* to those who don't suffer from such disorders is so draining, Orphelia...It literally hurts as if a physical pain to explain it to someone who doesn't suffer with these disorders. And often to receive looks of blank confusion from the unsuspecting spouse just adds to our pain. So much pain all the way around! <P>As I became more aware of the enornomity of my disorders and that I would be unable to handle them unmedicated, unmanaged and untreated, like you (understandibly) my husband did't "get it"--and then entered OM who did.<P>We were friends long before we were lovers...but we crossed that line (just a few times but a few times too many) and eventually lost a friendship that had come to mean so much more (and could have meant even more had we blended our families rather than cross over that line!) than the affair ever did. I will always regret losing his friendship, but it is the way it must be.<P>If he is your husband, I'm sorry. Words will never erase the damage we have done--just know we were truly not in our right minds. That's not an excuse, but perhaps it is an explanation.<P>I pray you find peace, loving and comfort in your husband's arms. He is a good man. I know because you are a good woman.<P>------------------<BR>Take good care, Francis<P>

And now, a word from the Betrayer, without whom these discussions would not be possible. <P>When the counselor H (Unseen2) and I were first seeing hinted to me that perhaps I may have strayed due to a poor self esteem, I thought he was 1) nuts and 2) using a cookie cutter phrase from one of his books to diagnose me. Now, a little over six months since I terminated the affairs I am begginning to see where he and my H were right.<P>When a person has self esteem issues, she does become vulnerable to the "positive attention" she receives from the OP. This is the sad part tho - often times we see what we want to see when looking at a situation. The betrayer (esp. in a woman's case) may mistake some deceitful scumbag's efforts to lure her into bed as someone who "wants to be her friend" or just "wants to hang out" That OP says all the right things to make his conquest. The betrayer - obviously NOT thinking right - falls, hook, line, and sinker. <P>Not to make the betrayer out to be someone who has no control over her actions - as we all know, that is simply not true. But I do know that it took two to get to where I'm at today. <P>On a final note, I believe that some degree of emotional immaturity in combinaton with above-mentioned factors is the grease that turns the wheels of some affairs.<P>It kinda sucks to be picked apart like this and seemingly so easily understood and transparent for our actions, but I understand the betrayed persons need to comprehend WHY we did what we did.<P>In my case it had little to nothing to do with shortcomings my H had - my inner workings and stupidity are at fault.<P>Khyra

Bravo Khyra for such insightfulness!<P>I, too, agree with everything said here. My husband is very emotionally insecure and has low self-esteem. <P>As a child, he was severely emotionally neglected. His parents are very educated, religious people, who were also very old when they had children. They thought they were doing what was best by sending them to the best schools, attending church to the point that everything else was dropped to do so. In other words, no boy scout campouts, no sleepovers, etc. on Saturday nights. They gave their children all the material possessions, but never a word of acceptance. <P>They never hugged my husband, never told him they loved him, never went to his athletic events, sent him off to boarding school, and didn't even attend his college graduation. Yet, they controlled every little aspect of his life. Not to mention the fact they still try to control him at 35 years old. How confident can you feel when your own parents do these things?<P>I guess when you grow up with so little affection, you will portray the image of somebody who is fine with it. It's a defense mechanism, we all have them in one form or another. I seriously though, although he doesn't act the least bit confident, thought he didn't need the attention and admiration that I withheld from him. Big mistake!<P>If there is one thing that I've learned throughout this whole ordeal, it's the fact that every single soul in this world needs and craves affection. I don't care how cocky a person acts, how confident they "appear" to be to the outside world. EVERYONE needs it! It is the most profound revelation that I've ever had. If everybody understood this, then there would be less confusion in the world. There would be so much more understanding and a lot less anger.<P>All you have to do is think back to when a child is born. Do they come out of the wound pushing away your hugs and kisses? Do they "need" affection and attention to thrive? I think we all know the answer to that. We're all still that little newborn. Still in need of all those things. We're all still in need of recognition, of acceptance, of admiration. I don't care who you are! Unfortunately, we don't scream and cry like a newborn in order to get it. Too bad it isn't that simple!<P><P>------------------<BR>The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart.<BR>Helen Keller<BR>

Hi Everyone,<P>What a wonderfully insightful and intelligent thread you have going here. I have enjoyed reading all of your posts and agree with majority of what everyone has to say. <P>"I" am the spouse/partner that has very little self esteem. My husband often complains that he becomes frustrated when complimenting me on anything because I always fail to see myself worthy of the compliment. He tells me that he tires of my constant down-grading of myself.<P><BR>Although exceptionally low in the self-esteem department, I would not, could not, become involved in an affair. It goes against my moral fiber. I would not be able to sleep through the night without being plagued by nightmares. My conscience is very touchy and I dispair over many mistakes made in the past.<P>My husband's affair was due to his weekness to say "NO" to an overly agressive, powerful woman. She set her sights on him and he was putty in her hands. His mother is one tough cookie who has ruled every roost that she has been in. She raised her family with an iron fist and people jump when she commands.<BR>My husband feels confident being told by powerful women what to do and when to do it. His first marriage was to one of these types of hen-pecking women, but it failed due to the overbearingness of her command. Through therapy he says he has learned now to heed the warning signs against developing friendships with these type of aggressive women. <P>Through counseling of my own, I have found the self-esteem to set limits in our relationship and now I feel worthy of asking husband to stick to them.<P>Just wanted to add another slant to this thread. Thanks for letting me vent. <P>

I believe that during my H's affair, he indeed have low self-esteem. To make matters worse, he used alcohol as an outlet, thus becoming an alcoholic. He was depressed, conflict avoider, hated his job, thought I didn't love him anymore, financial problems, etc. etc. etc.<P>He said that he wanted to see if he could attract someone. He thought that I no longer found him attractive. He found someone at the bar who was/is the opposite of me. She was a very needy person with low self-esteem...a battered wife, who was looking for a hero to save her.<P>She gave my H her sob story and he felt sorry for her. I guess he thought that by helping her (Lord, knows how in the hell he helped her...) then it would make him a better person for helping someone so needy.<P>All this affair did, was he ended up hating himself even more, hated what he had become, hated what he did to me, couldn't even believe that he did all those bad things.<P>So, to sum it up....Yes, in or case...low-self esteem was indeed a factor for having affairs.

This whole thread sounds so condescending. Every person on this earth needs love and attention. If the "betrayed" didn't need love and attention too (i.e. from their spouse) they wouldn't be here on this website. Just another thread from "betrayed" basically saying I'm-the-betrayed-and-I'm-so-superior because... If you believe half of what Harley has to say, then we are all vulnerable.

Dear The Student, Since you used a broad "this whole thread" statement, I'd like to know what part of my post you found condescending, or sidney's, or Orphelia's...well you get my drift.<P>I don't think any of us are claiming to be superior at all, yet the fact is...I have had numerous opportunities, in fact, offers, to engage in an affair, but I haven't, because something inside me (undoubtedly speaking in my grandmother's voice) says don't do that, you are worth more than that represents, that isn't real, it won't satisfy.<P>In counseling and in long talks with my h., he repeatedly says "she made me feel worth something" "I needed to know if I could still attract someone". All things I understand in an intellectual sense, but CANNOT identify with. I love him with all my heart, so I come here to learn and more deeply grow with him.<P>Sorry if you feel like we are looking down on betrayers, but please look deeply at why you need to criticize and flame people who are already suffering as they try to understand and save their marriages.<P>Liz\Pearl (who is having too good a week to let you get her down)<p>[This message has been edited by POGP (edited December 22, 1999).]

I would agree with what everybody here is saying. My ew is now on anti-deps and has told me her moods are better(gee, why didn't you do that when we were married!). Also the counselor I stole from her also told me she was suffering from low self esteem which I did see. Anytime she made a mistake, she was extremely hard on herself.<P>She also may have had a family problem growing up. Her brother told me that his parents were very hard on him as he was the blacksheep of the family adn there were lots of verbal and physical abuse and as ew was little, she just sat there and took it all in.<P>The strange part is that om is on depressants and was recently dxed as bipolar. My ew said they used to sit arounf and just talk all the time at work and he was very complimentry. Add in her MLC and my traits(I'm not complimentry and I'm a conflict avoider) and voila you have the ingriediants for an affair which did happen.<P>