I found out a week ago that my wife of many years is having an affair. I haven't confronted her about it yet, and have kept my mouth shut(the single hardest thing I have ever done in my life. She has agreed to go to counseling and we have an appointment tomorrow. I am hoping that the counselor can help her to admit it to me so we can try to save our marriage. If I had confronted her, I don't know that we would have made it to counseling... We have kids and a lot of great history. I really don't want it to end.

I think that there are a lot of reasons for the affair, but in our discussions over the past week about our marriage she is continually bringing up the point that I am verbally abusive to her. In the heat of an argument, I have chosen to use words that are inappropriate several times, but I always walk away when I am angry, and come back. Neither of us has done a good job communicating once we have gotten mad. Lately, when I come back we don't even talk. She also says my behavior is controlling, and in most disucssions lately, every problem we have ever had or any issue with our marriage is my fault. I am sitting there taking it right now and saying that she is right on every point. Is this right?

I don't feel like I am abuseive, but sometimes one can't see the forest for the trees. I love her, and think that we have both not taken the time to grow our relationship. She thinks that I need counceling for my behaivor.

She seems so angry with me, and continually tells me that "why couldn't you have made changes earlier". I am starting to feel like road kill...

I didn't have the affair and I need some help dealing with her anger, and my inability to say anything back.

Thx

Saveit, I'll get the ball rolling but you will get other more experienced to give advice. First you cannot take the personal assaults to heart. History is re-written and exaggerated to justify the her actions. "Why couldn't you make the change sooner" is very telling. There is some responsibility on your part and I think if you can admit that it will help you in the process of forgiving.

Also be prepared for some real difficult ups and downs but stay focused on your goal which is to heal. I am 2 years down the road from W's affair and only now getting into councelling. You are very wise to get professional help. But I also made the mistake of protecting W's reputation by keeping affair a secret. Don't do this. Be careful who you tell but do whatever it takes to end contact. You cannot stand idle.

Walkin

You need to bring up the affair in the counseling session if she does not. There can be no recovery without honesty on both your parts. And, re-writing history is common for affairees. That doesn't mean you don't have any responsibility for the state of your marriage before the affair. You do. So does she. Whatever you did, it does not justify her affair, but she may not see it that way. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. Your situation is harder, but your chances of saving your marriage and actually making it better than before are still good. But, whether your spouse is "on board" or not, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

My wife and I went to counseling yesterday. Basically it turned into a "get it off our chest" session for both of us. We met individually with the councelor. I don't think that my wife fessed up to the counselor about the affair, it seemed like it was a assasinate the SOB's character session for her. The counselor told me that whenever I felt I could keep my cool, and not get emotional, that I should confront her about the affair. I did, and at first she said it didn't happen, then when confronted with the evidence she changed her story, and said that she had flown out and met the guy, but that together they had decided it wouldn't work. "it was just a friendship...". Electronic evidence that I have would strongly suggest otherwise, but she was very angry and insisted that there was nothing going on. She was threatening to take me to court because I had invaded her privacy. I pointed out to her that she could take me to court, get me arrested, thrown in jail and the end result would be that I couldn't pay any child support....She kind of quieted down after that. We talked for awhile longer, re-hashing old ground. She still won't admit that the relationship is an affair. I finally told her that the divorce was her decision, and that I now needed to get my life together for myself and my kids. I also told her that I was available if she wanted to talk sometime, hoped that she found happiness. I told her at that point that I thought we both needed space because we were both angry and I was very hurt. I have made plans to be gone and almost unavailable for the next couple of days except if she has an emergency. It is killing me not to see my kids... Where do I go next??

Plan A is next. Re-read the posts. Twice. And get this, which may not be obvious: The first and most important part of Plan A is to avoid Lovebusters. Re-read that section of the "Basic Concepts" link. This is the one part of Plan A that is supposed to be permanent and pervasive - apply it to all your relationships. This does not mean avoid conflict, it means avoid dealing with conflict in a destructive way. You may have to learn some new skills for that. I sure did.

The next most important part is exposure. Affairs die when exposed to the light of day. They are founded in secret. Take away the secret, the relationship crumbles. Call the OM and say something like: "I am xxx's husband. I believe your relationship with xxx is harming my efforts to save our marriage. Please do not have any more contact with her." Don't say anything much more than that, or something similar. He may laugh at you. He may ridicule you. He may apologize sincerely or insincerely. It makes no difference. Hang up. You have shown yourself to be a rational human being who is trying to work on the problems in his relationship with his wife. It is likely that she has not portrayed you that way to him. The disconnect will introduce conflict between them. This is good. The exposure will eliminate the secrecy that feeds the relationship. This is good, too. Tell his wife, if he is married.

She can't get you arrested for invading her privacy. You are married. She has no legal right to privacy from you that I know of. You did not invade her privacy, anyway. You exposed her secret. There is a big difference. There was a great post on this a while back. If I can find it I will copy it here. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't feel like I am abuseive, but sometimes one can't see the forest for the trees. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Abusers never can. It is likely that this is a legitimate complaint, sad to say, despite WS's tendency to re-write their marital history to justify their actions. Re-read the LoveBusters stuff again. Do you exhibit any of the behaviors Harley describes as "Demands, Disrespect, and Anger"? They are all forms of abuse. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "why couldn't you have made changes earlier" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this actually is a good thing to hear. It probably means that she is recognizing some changes in you, and that it is causing some internal conflict in her about her actions. That doesn't mean she is going to change her behavior, though. Be ready for a long battle.

<small>[ December 05, 2003, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

mr. S,
a point that hasn't been touched on yet. because she sais that you are abusive it doesn't mean that you are...the case may be that she truly percieves that you are...or that she is simply blowing smoke to prove that she's in the right where her affair is concerned.

so here's the thing, you must be very cool about all that she sais or accuses you of right now...realize that in her foggy state you can actually believe very little of what she sais...either good or bad. so don't take it to heart! right now she may as well be from outer space for all you know! one thing for sure however, she sure as h#ll isn't the woman you remembered her to be or that you married...not any more.

also understand that from her position, right now anger is the order of the day and the things she will say are probably going to be spiteful, hurtfull and mean spirited...there fore your job is to be the adult. to not respond to her taunting, anger. give her no tangible or legitimate cause to feel negative about you right now. sooooooo....no arguing with her about anything...just calm correct responses that state your position on the various issues that will come up in respectful, logical terms.

another thing, go away for a while if you must be please don't leave your home, no matter what she may say or do! if you can, expose the affair to the OM's W if he's married and to every one else that may be able to influence your wife. she will be angry at you but so what? until the affair is exposed to the light of truth it will continue to florish.

also, when it was me, i did everything i could to change my persona. i tried ever so hard to be respectful with out being subserviant...i walked away from arguments and never raised my voice...no matter what the provocation! why? because that's what my W wanted and expected me to do...it's the person she wanted me to be so that she could reconcile her bad behaviore as being justified. so give her none of it! let her live with her self..she will end up being her own worst critic.

good luck.
coach

Saveit,
Your post caught my eye because of your W's complaints of you and her possible rationalization of her affair. They are somewhat similar to my W's. People fall into patterns of communication during good times as well as arguments. My W and I would have an argument and it never mattered who started it. It was always my fault. Why? Because the argument would upset me so I'd have a loud reaction. My W would never remember that she may have started the issue. She'd just remember my over reaction.

I guess I'm trying to say perception is reality

Also Coach said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> also, when it was me, i did everything i could to change my persona. i tried ever so hard to be respectful with out being subserviant...i walked away from arguments and never raised my voice...no matter what the provocation! why? because that's what my W wanted and expected me to do...it's the person she wanted me to be so that she could reconcile her bad behaviore as being justified. so give her none of it! let her live with her self..she will end up being her own worst critic.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is important advice for BS's who are angry or perceived as being angry to the WS. So Plan A like crazy. No LB's. Unfortunately it usually takes a W awhile longer to see the good side of Plan A if they think you are an angry person. They will see the better person but they'll be afraid that the changes are only temporary. They think it's a trick to fool them and to cheat them out of their soul mate, the OM.

My personal belief is that W's who think their H's are angry people are involved in what are called by some infidelity experts as "exit affairs." Harley doesn't discuss this concept on this site but I think the anger or the percieived anger adds that extra edge to dealing with the affair.

One last thing and then I'll give you dome time to respond. Do not make the same mistake that I did. I waited way too long to call the OM's W and tell her of the affair!!

Cwmac

Yesterday my wife called me at work and asked me to come decorate the tree with the kids for christmas, and I stayed for dinner. The evening went well, and I don't think I committed one LB. I am sleeping outside the house because the MCounselor suggested that it would be a good thing to give my wife some space.

I came back to the house this morning and had some time alone with her. I had gotten her to admit to the affair two days ago. Her definition of an affair and mine don't seem to match. She says it is a friendship with an old friend. I have not yet called the OM or her parents to discuss. She says that he is just a friend, that she wanted to get physical, and he decided that he couldn't do it. E-Mails after they had that meeting would suggest otherwise.

Since I confronted her, I haven't seen any new communication between them, but I don't trust her. (maybe they are getting sneakier...)

She got extremely angry when I suggested that I was going to call him, and her parents, and start talking with our friends and neighbors. She said that she would start telling stories about my abusive behavior if I started telling people that she had an affair. Then she told me to leave the house, and she was going to get a restraining order filed against me because of what I said a month ago.... I calmly told her that it was also my home, and that I didn't feel that I had to leave just because she was mad. She left and went to the local police dept and filed a complaint. The police said that they couldn't\wouldn't do anything because the incident didn't happen today. (I think they could tell she is in the fog..). Anyway, eventually the phone rang and she started talking. We talked for an hour or so, and eventually decided that beating each other up with our past history had ceased to be really exciting. We keep going over the same issues, ALL OF MY BAD HABITS AND TRANSGRESSIONS OVER 18 years. Getting varbally beat up by her has really ceased to have any charm, but I am trying my best to not to react or take it to heart.

I got her to agree that it wasn't useful to keep bringing up the past in every conversation. I told her that I thought that we both needed to look to the future, a future that may or may not see us married, but will certainly be tied together with our three kids. She agreed to start looking to the future, and to be honest in all our conversations from this point on. One way or another we will have to have a realtionship.

Question....

I don't really believe that the affair is truely dead, only wounded. Should I stir it up by calling people, or should I give her some space and some time and see if it dies just by me confronting her. The OM is 1700 miles away.

She seemed incredibly angry today, and truely seemed ready to throw in the towel and file. She still is not addressing the effect that this is going to have on the kids. I hate to rub salt in a wound if she needs time to think?

I have another one on one session with the mcounselor coming up this week. My wife couldn't schedule until next week. Christmas morning, my wife is flying out with two of our kids to her home town to "see her parents". This guy lives in her home town.... I have a couple of weeks to work with,and I think that I need to figure out something before she goes. I really want to start calling.

Even though my wife seems to truely hate me. I really do still love her, and want to save this marriage. Regardless of how it ends I am taking steps now to make myself a better person. Thanks everyone for all your help. I still have one sane brain cell.

Just called my in-laws. My father in law answered the phone. He knew we were having some problems, but his loving daughter seemed to have forgotten to mention the little point about the affair....(an important point since the man married myself and my wife!)

I didn't talk with my mother-in-law, but my wife has been doing a complete character assasination job on me lately with her, and she probably also hates me. I don't think she knows about the affair yet.

My father in law has always been a stand up guy. I am pretty sure he believed my story. He really seemed genuine. I played the grandchild card, and that seemed to get him a bit riled up. Hopefully a little pressure from that side will get her out of the fog, and we can make some progress.

Sav,

I'm glad you enlisted the help of your FIL. Don't forget blood is thicker than water and they may not be much help, but exposure is still the right step. Is the other man married? You need to speak to his wife if he is. That will introduce more conflict into fantasyland than anything else.

John39 has excellent guides and links in his post to you....please use them to get an overview of where you are right now. Go today and buy a copy of "Surviving an Affair" it will be a godsend for you right now.

Welcome to the forum....sorry you're here, but you've come to a good place.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She got extremely angry when I suggested that I was going to call him, and her parents, and start talking with our friends and neighbors. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Affairs are addictions. When you threaten an addict's "fix" they get ugly.

Call the OM and have a short conversation similar to the one I suggested above. I take it you have told her father. Good. Leave the neighbors out of it, at least for now. The idea is to tell people who have influence in her life and can encourage her to do the right thing, not to publicly shame her.

Well, two months since my last post, and my WW seems to be coming out of the fog a bit. I think her realtionship with the OM (1700 miles away) has started to lose some of it's lustre.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> !!!

I have kept my LBusters to a bare minimum, and waited..... patiently, VERY patiently. I told our fiends and her parents about the affair and got them involved in a positive way. I went to counseling and am changing parts of my life that I think need tuning up. She has also gone to counseling to deal with her issues. I am feeling pretty good about myself. This despite all the hateful stuff my WW wife has be tossing my way about my alleged "abusive" behavior (she really is trying to justify the affair). But to be fair, I did have some life issues that I needed to work out with a professional counselor.

Last weekend, I had reached a breaking point because she didn't seem to be wanting to work anything out, she just beat me up emotionally every time we spoke. She is living in our home, and the kids are there. I am living in a box in the street (just kidding). I told her that I was going to file and end it, or she could file, I didn't care. I wasn't angry or upset, just wore out. I have been on a emotional roller coster with her for three months, and it had taken a physical and emotional toll on me, and the kids. I had done my best to get her to the table.

Amazingly, once she understood I was serious about divorce, and I made her clearly aware of my goals in the divorce,(kids, house, etc..) I saw a marked change in her attitude.

She is slowly starting to ask me to do things again. Eat dinner at home, go to the store, etc. We have kids, and she seems to be comfortable doing "family" things as a family again. We have had some polite, but constructive conversations about unimportant stuff. She made the effort to go to my fitness club last night to have me show her how to use the fitness equipment. We got a cup of coffee together and listened to a new cd I got in the car for a couple of minutes.

My problem is that she still doesn't want to get down to talking constructively about OUR issues that caused her to have an affair. She doesn't want any type of physical contact, and she seems to need a lot of space. Is what I am seeing normal? Is she going through withdrawl from the OM? We haven't gotten to a letter of NC yet.

I don't want to press, but after three months of hell, I really would like to get down to something concrete, and see if we can learn to understand each other, and love each other again. We seem to be on a day to day schedule for now, with no real future.

I would appreciate some advice, or a pep talk. Should I just continue plan A with an added emphasis on NO Love Busters, hoping things continue to improve....? She still won't really commit to rebuilding the marriage,and I am afraid to press too much since she seems to be really "fragile" right now. It has taken three months to get to this point. She just says she needs time and space to think.