Hi Cerri,

I'm calling out to you b/c I've read so many of your posts. You have remarkable wisdom. I need your wisdom to help me understand what is happening to my WH and how come he's so far out of control now that it's become careless and dangerous.

Orchid has been a rock to me and I stay in contact w/ her. I don't know what I would do w/o her some days.

The current situation is that I am in the middle of #2 Just Found Out.

When DDay 1st occured 1 year ago, that was hard enough. My WH and I went through 2 seperations and finally he attempted some counseling w/ me and eventually moved back home over the summer. We were in the beginning stages of recovery when he did actually admit to an EA w/ a former sec. Kinda of strange b/c she wasn't the "current" one I was concerned about. So from that admission it went from bad to worse. He wouldn't answer questions I had concerning her. He wouldn't send out a letter of n/c to her. He wouldn't disclose credit card summaries and phone logs to show me he was being currently honest. He started verbally abusing me like I've never seen before. He stopped going to counseling, church and stopped associating w/ any one of our friends that are Christian.

When I tried talking to him about his behavior and not sending a n/c letter, he just lit into me telling me I've never been much of a woman and blah, blah, blah. I told him we needed to seperate so we wouldn't be in the heat of battle all of the time. He went from Angry to Fired Up! He started saying he was going to D me and screw me royally.

So after watching him react w/ a knee/jerk reaction to practically everything, you know like putting our rental house up for sale (which is only in his name) and sending back 10 thousand $ worth of lumber purchased to renovate our house thereby stopping all work on my exposed house. Well I filed for a D myself. I never wanted to do this but I was advised that the only way to protect myself and the kids financially was to do this to keep him from selling everything out from under us. EVERYTHING IS IN HIS NAME!

So, from this point I go dark. I keep my distance and haven't talked to him barely.

Now to DDay #2...I see that now w/ his new found freedom he has used this opportunity to spend lots of time in bars and w/ that freedom came a night that he spent the night at a expensive hotel...$250 a night. This he did after he left his son's football game one evening, came home and changed and went out to meet God knows who. And if I'm not mistaken I think it may have been his technical weekend w/ the kids.

I am more than devestated by this. He is so far out of control I'm scared. This unsafe little adventure effectively ended any possibility of a reconcilliation.

He's not been paying our household bills. He's avoiding the kids, he's in Cuba right now and hasn't called to check on the kids once!!!! He's been there for 5 days already. I don't know about you, but I can't stand to be away from my kids and he used to be that way too.

I feel like I'm dying inside. What is happening? How has he let it get this far? How could he be so recklass? I want to strangle him. He's letting his business fall by the wayside, the kids are neglected by him, our house is in disrepair, what do I do?!

<small>[ December 09, 2003, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: ljkm3 ]</small>

I'm not Cerri, and I don't have any great insight, except this: obsessing about what HE is doing is not helping you. You need to focus on you and the kids. He will come around or he will not. There is not a whole lot you can do to influence that.

(((((((((((((ljkm)))))))))

Today is cerri's birthday and she's not here. I'm so glad that you have Orchid....she is such a great lady and you're lucky to have such a friend. I do mentor for cerri's site, and wanted to just weigh in with some advice until cerri gets back.

Working on your marriage, doesn't mean leaving your family exposed in the way that you currently are. For that reason, legal help may be necessary to keep that from happening....but a legal separation should be sufficient to attach his wages for child support, freeze your current assets, and perhaps spousal support to pay the bills. If you live an a community property state....it doesn't matter at all if his name is the only one any title...if it was acquired during your marriage...you are still entitled to half of that asset. Please get some good legal advice....and don't feel as though divorce is the only way to get it if it isn't what you want. Along with the legal separation....the timing would probably be right...and Penny can be the judge....for you to go to a Plan B and stop contact so that you can protect the love you have left for your spouse, and not be further harmed by his actions. How old is he? How long have you been married? How has your Plan A worked out? What state do you live in?

I'm sure this is just terrifying, and as long as he is running amok, I fear it will not stabilize. That is why you may need to take the control that he many not be able to. Start getting your ducks in a row. Stay strong and we'll do our best to shore you up. Blessings!

John- I'm trying so hard not to obsess, I really am. But it's like he is always being thrown to the front of my mind and everything I'm doing b/c he's being such an a** and w/holding finances and neglecting the kids.

Starfish- I can't freeze any assets w/ a seperation, I already tried that. He could just spend and spend and spend and once it's gone it's gone. That was the ONLY reason I filed. He has secret accounts and stuff all over the place and I have no idea where they are.

I actually started plan B, for about 3 months now. I have done pretty well w/ n/c except for 3 things. 1- the holidays and the kids. W/ Thanksgiving and all I tried to make it as simple as I could. I took the kids to his brother's house in Orlando for a few days and on Thanksgiving day he drove out to have dinner w/ everyone, then he left. 2-the stupid finances. If he would just pay what is due then I wouldn't have to talk to him. He's let MANY things go late, even cancelled. He's never been like that before. I've tried to email him w/ bills, talk to him kindly, and have my attorney send his attorney copies of the bills owed. He has effectively ignored all of us right up until the time he just left for Cuba and then I think paid what was owed. And 3- he lives on the same street as us. So does his 87 year old dad. WH doesn't really try to come over but sometimes he'll pull right up into the driveway and come knocking on the door. I just make sure the kids keep him outside the door and I will go into a different room so he won't see me. As a matter of fact, he didn't really see me until just right before the holiday.

How can I know if I'm doing a good plan B? And how can I tell if it's making a difference?

He is 44.
We've been married over 14 years.
We live in Florida.

Plan A did work great as far as I can tell. I definitely left him w/ and impression of a wife who was willing to love him and meet his needs in a way I never did before. I owned up to my mistakes and have made serious changes in me and he can see that clearly. I am not the woman I was before. I have no regrets.

You mentioned something about timing. Do you think I just blew it simply b/c my timing was not right? How would I have known w/ certainty when the right timing was? Is that why there are so many false recoveries out there?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Starfish- I can't freeze any assets w/ a seperation, I already tried that. He could just spend and spend and spend and once it's gone it's gone. That was the ONLY reason I filed. He has secret accounts and stuff all over the place and I have no idea where they are.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The Internet has tons of information on Florida Divorce and Separation laws. Here is a typical explanation of Separation Law in Florida:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The Marital Separation and Property Separation Agreement (MSA), will cover every major circumstance and enable you to deal with the following issues:

Visitation
Child Support Payments
Spousal Maintenance
Property Division
Division of Debts
Health Insurance
Disposition of the Marital Home
Pension Plans
Tax Issues
Future Dispute Settlement

Ordinarily you execute an MSA before you file your divorce papers, normally at the time that you separate. This allows you to negotiate and execute your MSA and then to file for your divorce as soon as any required waiting period(s) has/have been completed.

Q. What is a Marital Separation Agreement?

A marital separation agreement, also known as a property settlement agreement, is a written contract dividing your property, spelling out your rights, and settling problems such as alimony and custody. A marital separation agreement may be drawn before or after you have filed for divorce — even while you and your spouse are still living together.

Q. Why is a Marital separation agreement important?

If you have no marital property, no joint debts, and no children, you probably don't need a marital separation agreement to get a no-fault divorce. However, if you want to provide for the future governance of your relationship, as well as provide additional evidence to the court about the day that you separated, you should have a Marital Separation Agreement. An agreement leaves no doubt about the details of the ending of your marriage relationship. It is better to have a clearly written agreement, rather than rely on verbal understandings.


Q. Do I have to file a Marital Separation Agreement with the court?

When you initially execute your Marital Separation agreement you do not have to file the Agreement with the Court to be effective. When you begin the divorce proceedings you will, in most jurisdictions, attach the Marital Separation Agreement to the complaint and ask the court to merge, but not incorporate, the Agreement into the final judicial decree. If the Marital Separation Agreement is incorporated into the decree, it becomes a court order and is enforceable by the court's contempt powers. If you don't incorporate it into the decree, it simply becomes a contract between you and your spouse, which you later have to sue in a separate action to enforce. If the separation agreement is not incorporated into the divorce decree, and your spouse violates the agreement you can still seek money damages for the violation of the agreement, but it is easier and faster if the agreement is incorporated into the divorce decree.


Q. What is the difference between a contested or uncontested divorce?

Divorces are either contested or uncontested. Contested divorces are those in which the respondent disputes any issue in the case - the divorce itself, the property division, child custody, alimony, etc. Uncontested divorces fall into two categories - (1) Consent Divorces - the parties agree on all major issues; and (2) Default causes - where the respondent fails to appear to contest the divorce or any issue in it, either because he or she chooses not to oppose it, or because he or she cannot be located. By entering into a Marital Separation Agreement you make your divorce an uncontested divorce.

Q. How long are the parties bound by a Marital Separation Agreement?

A separation agreement is a legal document that will bind you through many years and determine your rights, obligations, and responsibilities from your marriage. You and your spouse can amend the agreement if you both consent to the changes; or it can be modified by a court order, provided the agreement does not specifically state that the agreement is not subject to any court modification. Nevertheless, the court can always modify provisions in an agreement regarding the care and custody of any minor children.


Q. Do the courts review the fairness of a Marital Property Settlement Agreement?

In an uncontested divorce, the court nearly always approves the agreement of the parties if it is generally fair and the court is convinced that the agreement was entered into by both spouses without fraud or coercion. Often the court may want to review financial affidavits attached to the agreement in order to determine its fairness.

In negotiating your agreement, you should be guided by how a court is likely to divide your property, award custody and child support, and deal with other issues.


Q. How do the courts divide assets and debts in an "equitable" distribution state?

In an "equitable distribution" state the court "equitably divides" the marital property. The court normally considers the length of the marriage, age, health, conduct of the parties, occupation, skills and employment of the parties. Equitable division does not mean equal division and seldom is property equally divided. The court will order an approximately equal division of the assets and liabilities when:

• It was a long marriage

• The spouses have nearly equal wealth before the marriage,

• Both spouses have approximately equal earning ability.

• There are no minor children.

The court will award more property (and fewer debts) to the spouse who has:

• Less earning ability

• Less financial contribution to the marriage if the marriage is a short-term marriage.

• Poor health or other adverse circumstances.

• Custody of minor children.

• Marital and Non-Marital Property

Q. What is the difference between "marital property" and "non-marital property"?

In an "equitable distribution" state, all property acquired during the marriage is "marital property" and all property owned before the marriage is "non-marital" property. Gifts or inheritances to either spouse during the marriage is non-marital property.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this what you filed? The MSA?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I actually started plan B, for about 3 months now. I have done pretty well w/ n/c except for 3 things. 1- the holidays and the kids. W/ Thanksgiving and all I tried to make it as simple as I could. I took the kids to his brother's house in Orlando for a few days and on Thanksgiving day he drove out to have dinner w/ everyone, then he left. 2-the stupid finances. If he would just pay what is due then I wouldn't have to talk to him. He's let MANY things go late, even cancelled. He's never been like that before. I've tried to email him w/ bills, talk to him kindly, and have my attorney send his attorney copies of the bills owed. He has effectively ignored all of us right up until the time he just left for Cuba and then I think paid what was owed. And 3- he lives on the same street as us. So does his 87 year old dad. WH doesn't really try to come over but sometimes he'll pull right up into the driveway and come knocking on the door. I just make sure the kids keep him outside the door and I will go into a different room so he won't see me. As a matter of fact, he didn't really see me until just right before the holiday.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A good Plan B requires a mediator....your lawyer can do the legal stuff....but you need someone else to help with visitation and other daily exchanges and requests. Do you have one? If not, try and get one now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How can I know if I'm doing a good plan B? And how can I tell if it's making a difference?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know you are doing a good Plan B if you can maintain no contact. And the best plan B is one where you are not focussed on making a difference in anything but you. Plan A was all about him. Plan B is about you. Most people go into Plan B with the idea that it will shock their spouses into taking action....or waking up....and it may. But the purpose of Plan B is to protect you. Protect you from the hurtful things he does, the manipulation, the continuation of the affair and to protect the love each of you has for each other by avoiding all conflict. It gives you some distance from the pain and allows you the peace to get the detachment necessary to move forward with your life. There is a difference between moving forward and moving on. But any contact AT ALL....has a huge consequence and renders the plan less effective.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is 44.
We've been married over 14 years.
We live in Florida.

Plan A did work great as far as I can tell. I definitely left him w/ and impression of a wife who was willing to love him and meet his needs in a way I never did before. I owned up to my mistakes and have made serious changes in me and he can see that clearly. I am not the woman I was before. I have no regrets.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excellent. Having a good Plan A....makes the comfort available in Plan B possible because you aren't spending all of your time blaming yourself because you didn't try hard enough to stop the love busters.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You mentioned something about timing. Do you think I just blew it simply b/c my timing was not right? How would I have known w/ certainty when the right timing was? Is that why there are so many false recoveries out there?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think there are so many false recoveries because of many things. No recovery plan is in place after Plan B....so the marriage survives the affair, but fails to recover. The other thing I notice alot....is that when the WS returns and is in withdrawal....that's when people try to form a plan or push all the recovery concepts....and the withdrawn spouse is still in the fog and just feels overwhelmed by all the relationship talks. Another reason is that Plan B should really be done with a coach....hopefully Orchid has been acting in that regard for you....but you can always call the Harleys or cerri if you are able.

As far as the timing....it sounds like you did just fine. You hadn't mentioned you were in Plan B....and it seemed as though you should be. The fact that you are is good.....try not to second guess yourself or panic. I know you must really be scared, but it sounds like your husband is deeply fogged and it may take some time for him to come out of it.

Protect yourself.....and take care. Hopefully cerri will be around tomorrow and pick this up. Bump it if she doesn't see it. And if I see her on IM....I'll ask her to take a look.

((((((((hugs)))))))))))

<small>[ December 03, 2003, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Wow! What a post!

Florida is an interesting place for the courts and its rules.

ljkm3: Keep on Keepin on. You gave me hope and I could see that you were doing really well. It is this time of year that things start to go crazy because of the Holidays. I know since I didn't get to see my kids on T-Day. After fighting for visitation, I have been given every other weekend and every monday on the off weekend. I am happy for this but sad because it mad my WW very angry. She then called me wanting me to give up my first weekend because she had planned a b-day party for youngest that she did not tell me anything about. She told me her dad is coming in who was suppose to be on my side and that the OM will be there. Then she invited me... hahahahaha

Anyways... I share that because you are not alone. My prayers are with you for I know how the heart yearns to have that which it had before. Even though it was not perfect it still was a family unit that gave meaning and strength. Do you like to give or to take? I would say give and it is hurting that you cannot give...that is normal. Focus on your kids and yourself. Feel free to splurge on simple things since money is an issue. When you are weak He is strong! God will get the glory. Been doing devotions and prayer times? Lose yourself in the psalms. If you will I will. I have been fighting it because I feel if I do find comfort then I am giving up on the love for my WW. I am black and white person. Are you?

Keep the Faith --- He Loves you even when others do not!

I forgot to ask about the two elements in Plan A that most people shy away from. Were you able to expose the affair (sounds like many people know) and confront your spouse with your feelings about the affair? Is the affair work related? Oh, and what's in Cuba?

You said he's in Cuba. Is he military?

Alright - lj - I read very quickly, I do have some thoughts but after my little shopping/eating/party-with-kids hiatus yesterday I have to pay the piper and do some work this morning. I also want to read this again and the replies that you got. Here's what I want you to do. Bump this this afternoon if I haven't been back, and email me at the same time. Ok?

Cool, hang in there - later...

C

Well 1st up, my WH is an attorney himself. And he's trying to play any game that he think he can get away w/. Unfortunately again it doesn't matter that I can sue him seperately AFTER he depletes all marital assets. As you can imagine, I will never see it. In my opinion (and others) I need to portect myself NOW!

Yes I exposed his A. One was work related. However the secretary is 21 years younger than him and I believe it was more fantasy on his part. The girl has clearly moved on and is going to law school herself. Why would she need a "dad" boyfriend/husband who is messed up, overweight, already got 3 kids, any viagra issues?!

#2 is in Cuba. This is when I discovered what was going on. He enjoyed purchasing Victoria Secret items worth several hundred $ among other things.

#3 is currently here in Tampa. Not sure what the connection is to him emotionally. It appears to be a "ho" like adventure. I'm seeing a more sexual addiction problem and that's why I'm overwhelmed and so deeply hurt.

This is going on the 7th day now that my WH has not called his kids from Cuba. I honestly cannot believe he has done this.

Ok Dobie...are you ready?

No, he's not in the military. He is actually using our government to obtain a "humanitarian liscense" to be able to travel down to Cuba to fuel his now out of control obsession w/ that country, the women, and connecting to his roots. (He's Cuban by his Cuban born parents).

His motives were pure in the beginning of his adventures down there. He went on a humanitarian mission w/ our church and got to help and see the people down there. He got to meet family members that he never got to meet before. He came back w/ a deep yearning to go back and make a difference. I was all behind him then.

THEN he was able to hook up w/ a cousin of the guy he used to share space with who is a Washington lobbyist. This guy from Wash. has very specific goals and idea about changing the US/Cuban policy and he has worked very hard to pave a way for change. He has taken former presidents down to Cuba, senetors, mayors and influencial political and religious figures.

My WH was able to sell him w/ his idea to help a particular hospital in Havana to supply medical equipment and medicines there. This man from Wash. liked my WH's ideas and tried to include him in some of the delegations that went down there. He was able to actually meet Castro b/c of this man.

Then my WH started getting sidetracked...WAY SIDETRACKED. He started having the idea that he would be the go between all future business opportunities in Cuba. He wanted to be the "go to" person in the tobacco, rum, art and even produce industry. He even talked about opening a law practice in Havana someday.

In the meantime, all of these trips didn't make him one dime in income! He spent 10 weeks out of the last year traveling down there.

But here's some strange things... As his trips were increasing, people from the outside in our area started talking. One person told me that my WH was boasting to a bunch of lawyers at a bar one evening that when they go down to Cuba, they rent a particular house and fill it full of Cuban whores. When he would come back he would place his clothing from his suitcase back into his drawers and when he pulled them out he would sniff them. Odd, I thought. At one point very early on, before I truly found out, when he came back the sex was very different. Even his kissing.

So back to Wash. Now my WH was traveling in secret w/o the guy from Wash. knowing. He was using other local businessmen and lawyers liscenes issued by our gov't. to get his sorry behind sown there. He was seeing this one particular girl by now and I got confirmation of this just a couple of months ago. The problem w/ him doing this is that he is jepordizing the business people and the guy in Wash. w/ his bogus crap!

And do you want to know the kicker in this whole story?! My WH was able to convince the guy in Wash. to push his application through OFAC so that he would have his own liscense to travel down there now!!! He and another guy he's partners w/ in this humanitarian adventure have formed a "humanitarian organization" and use that to fullfill their fantasies. I know this for a couple of reasons. 1- MY WH's partner is a divorced alchololic w/ a huge ego and I was told by one person who witnessed him personally in Cuba and also by the admission to my WH's former secretary that this partner is a big whore down there. He goes down there ONLY for that reason. The person who witnessed him personally was in Cuba during on of those times visiting his own family. And 2- all of this "humanitarian" stuff has only been talk. They are not organized in this venture and will write down or sell whatever is necessary in order to push that lisence through OFAC!

There's even more crap that I can't tell you b/c it involves some sort of defecting and a bunch of other stuff.

I am so frustrated b/c I want for him to be stopped. He has opened bank accounts in Canada in order to pull money out in Cuba. I'm afraid that he's setting himself up so he can bolt from here. And what's worse is that the guy in Wash. that has helped him is going to get burned b/c of them. He has worked too hard and for too long on all he has accomlpished to watch it all fall away b/c of some out of control mid-life craziness.

So, now tell me what I should do!

Hi LJ,

Orchid has been a rock to me and I stay in contact w/ her. I don't know what I would do w/o her some days.

Good, Im very glad to hear that. I've heard from a lot of people that she has been wonderful to lean on.

Ok - so I read most of what is here. I'm going to comment on this post now because that's about all the time I have and then hopefully your later one tomorrow.

My WH and I went through 2 seperations and finally he attempted some counseling w/ me and eventually moved back home over the summer.

And this is what probably is the beginning of things going downhill. Unless there are very firm conditions in place for recovery he should not have been allowed to come home.

This is the mistake that most people in your position make. You're so glad that the A seems to be over that all you want to do is get life back to normal. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Without very strong conditions and an agreement on his part to make amends by adhering to those conditions you are in a dangerous place for recurrence.

Not your fault. No one tells us this stuff and how are we to know. Even counselors don't get it right, and there are virtually none that specialize in post infidelity work.


So from that admission it went from bad to worse. He wouldn't answer questions I had concerning her. He wouldn't send out a letter of n/c to her. He wouldn't disclose credit card summaries and phone logs to show me he was being currently honest.

Right - because there is no motivation to do so. That's why those things MUST be done before he gets to come home and before you are willing to talk about the future of the marriage. This is the stuff for the negotiating the reconciliation stage.


He started verbally abusing me like I've never seen before. He stopped going to counseling, church and stopped associating w/ any one of our friends that are Christian.

Hmmmmm...... pretty strong defensive reaction, isn't it?

When I tried talking to him about his behavior and not sending a n/c letter, he just lit into me telling me I've never been much of a woman and blah, blah, blah.


Oh!!!! That is horrible! Not unusual, but still horrible. I'm so sorry. And you do know that it is not your fault, right?

I told him we needed to seperate so we wouldn't be in the heat of battle all of the time. He went from Angry to Fired Up! He started saying he was going to D me and screw me royally.

Well of course - you weren't willing to be his little doormat any longer. I would say that the next conditon of coming home is an anger mgt class and demonstrated ability to keep his temper.

Well I filed for a D myself. I never wanted to do this but I was advised that the only way to protect myself and the kids financially was to do this to keep him from selling everything out from under us. EVERYTHING IS IN HIS NAME!

I saw that Star found and posted some stuff on the laws in your state. Is it helpful? (I didn't read it thoroughly) is there stuff in there that helps you know what to do? What does your atty say? How are you protected now?


I see that now w/ his new found freedom he has used this opportunity to spend lots of time in bars and w/ that freedom came a night that he spent the night at a expensive hotel...$250 a night.

Not surprising, given the bender he seems to be on. Still, very horrifying for you I'm sure!


I am more than devestated by this. He is so far out of control I'm scared. This unsafe little adventure effectively ended any possibility of a reconcilliation.

Yes, I know it seems like that now, but many of us have been in similar places and are doing well in recovery. Of course, it adds to the conditions for coming home.

He's not been paying our household bills.

Tell me about your financial accounts. What do you have access to? What has your atty done for you in this matter? Are you working - do you have an income?


I don't know about you, but I can't stand to be away from my kids and he used to be that way too.

Mmmmm..... I have four boys at home and two of them are teenagers.... time away, I think I could do. LOL

But this too is typical of WS's. Even moms who couldn't be away for an hour to go out to dinner with their H's are suddenly leaving them to go sleep with some sleazy guy they met online. It is the power of addiction.

I feel like I'm dying inside.

Of course you do, you poor thing. This is horrible and horrifying. The man you thought you knew and loves has turned into some cruel stranger and is hurting you and your kids. His kids. It's awful.


How has he let it get this far? How could he be so recklass?

You have to remember that affairs are real addictions every bit as much as drug and alcohol addictions are real. I also suspect from your later post that there is some other addictive behavior going on as well. So he is literally behaving under the influence and isn't making good rational choices right now. As long as he continues this behavior he won't either.


I want to strangle him.

LOL - I hear ya!! But it's not going to help if you are in jail - and as I've said to others "jail bondsperson" is not on my resume!!

[what do I do?!

Talk to me about the legal steps you've taken so far.

C

In financial area I have no access to anything. He hides money. Keeps stocks and other accounts in his name. He has always been that way. He wouldn't put the house in my name w/ him when we built it. This was always a very sore spot w/ me. I felt worthless b/c of that.

My attorney is working on my case and is basically getting everything in order so we can present it at mediation soon. I am definitely more protected this way than w/ a seperation. I'm so fearful that he is hiding assets all over the place and he is preparing himself to leave the country as things heat up. But at least I can see that if he does flee to Cuba, his fantasy will finally come crashing to a halt. He won't be able to live like Donald Trump forever down there.

I do not work. Haven't for 10 years. i was a flight attendant before and quit to raise my children. And oddly enough I don't see myself working anytime soon b/c now w/ the kids a little older they are much more active. They demand my attention and depend on me to get them to where they are going.

I got my mail today and saw that my WH didn't pay the mortgage on the home. It's just getting worse and worse. I'm in the process of meeting w/ my attorney to see what fires we can light up under his butt!

Don't you think he is just too far gone? I mean I 've read the stories about marriages able to reach recovery even when the WS's are far out of control. And man! don't you think that the door of opportunity was closed permanantly b/c he's increased his sexual activites now adding to the risk of life threatening diseases? How could I ever go back to that w/ his behavior so far out of line?

You may want to ask your attorney to find an Forensic Accountant.

Here's a link so you can see what they do.

http://www.forensicaccounting.com/

If you think he's hiding money etc. your attorney should seek the help of an accountant or forensic accountant to track down what he's hidden. Then you'll have the information for your mediation and court dates.

In regards to the guy your husband has used. I honestly think you should let him know. He doesn't deserve to be screwed either. Is it possible that if this all comes out later that it may ruin his career? If so you should get ahold of him and let him know what your husband is doing so he can disassociate himself from the situation.

I'm so sorry your going through this.

*MochaMe*

Mocha,

Thank you for that forensic site. I will be reviewing it thouroughly. And yes, I did hire on a CPA for just this matter. He has all of the info that I could pull up and will be very helpful I'm sure as things move along.

Wanna hear the latest in this saga?

Last night I grabbed my mail as I was on my way to Bible study and I saw my mortgage statement. MY WH DIDN'T PAY THE MORTGAGE PAYMENT FOR NOVEMBER!!!

He is living in our rental house down the street and that statement comes here also. He has been paying them both on line and has been pretty good about that at least. Well he paid the rental mortgage but not the house here. I am so pissed right now!

He is intentionally sabotaging his business and neglecting the bills that he can afford to pay. He always has been able to pay these bills. Now he says he can't?! That a load of crap! How can he afford to spend 9 days in Cuba when he was just there for 5 two months ago?! I have to call my attorney in a little while to see what we can do.

As far as the guy in Wash. is concerned, yes if some of these things come out it could potentially ruin his career. He went out on a limb to help my WH and his Satan's spawn partner friend. Getting licenses issued from OFAC is extremely difficult. This guy personally contacted the person in charge at OFAC and recommended my WH and his "humanitarian organization". This put my WH's application from the bottom of about 1200 applications to the top, bypassing many many ligitimate applications.

MY WH has convinced the president of the medical school here locally to sit on his "Ho board" LOL! Just kidding... humanitarian board, I mean. He has the Reverend who was the one in the middle of negotiations w/ the Elian Gonzalez case on his board. He is gathering all of these prominent people to sit on this board and hasn't accomplished anything except to set himself and his partner up for the next sexual adventure under the disguise of "humanitarian" efforts.

The problem w/ all of this is that there wouldn't be ONE person who would join them on this venture if they knew their behavior. This could potentially taint alot of reputations here including the former mayor.

I have tossed the idea of calling the guy in Wash. and letting him handle all of this discreetly but I'm not sure how I should handle it. I also figure that God is truly in control of all of this and my WH will pretty much trip himself up sooner rather that later. Also, I have talked to this guy once before (but not about all of the above mentioned). It was when the war w/ Iraq started earlier in the year. My WH and I were seperated at that time and my WH decided to take a little trip to Cuba, w/o telling me or his dad. He left the country and didn't leave me a way to get ahold of him incase of an emergency. I was furious! So when I found out that he was in Cuba and that he was coming back on the actual day that the war was supposed to start, I called this guy at home. I asked him if he knew that he was in Cuba and if he was traveling under his license. (WH didn't have his own license at the time and had to ride under other's) He said he had no idea he was there and what the hell was he doing there?! I filled him in briefly about how he was using different people's license's to get down there and he was not telling the guy in Wash. of his activities b/c he knew he would not approve of all of it. So for several months, the guy distanced himself from my WH. And my WH's efforts were stalled.

Then when we started working things out (false recovery) my WH summoned up the courage to apologize to the guy. He told him that he would not be going down there w/o me and that I would have a position on the board so that I could see what things he was doing and also be able to participate.

Well the guy started letting him back into his inner circle and helped him all over again, not realizing that what he was doing was feeding a very serious addiction.

So, I'm not sure how I should handle this mess. Yes, he deserves to know but I just don't know how to go about it discreetly.

Ok, I did something crazy last night. I went w/ my girlfriends to the bar that my WH has been frequenting lately to check out the place. He isn't in town and I figured that this would be a good time to see what he is doing.

It was funny really. Inside there were all of these middle aged men seeking out these pathetic 30 something women. When we walked in there I swear just about all the men's heads turned to look at us. It was the biggest meat market I've seen in years!

My friend was funny, she came up to me w/ the bar's matches and said "here, put these in your purse and when you get home just leave them out in the open and don't say anything" She is a trip! Could you even imagine the look on my WH's face to know that I've even gone to this place?! It's not a very big place and it's kind of out of the way.

But on the other side of this, it's pitiful. My WH is a bar fly. He is one of those pathetic old men who hang out in bars scoping out the women. He doesn't know how to meet women any other way. And even more pitiful is that he's a married man. He's been doing this for many years. He used to always come home late after being out w/ the "boys" I am such an idiot. I just can't believe I never fully realized what he was doing all of these years. I guess I just thought that b/c we had a family there wouldn't be a desire to hang out w/ bar flies and that those days would be behind him. I've been duped for a long time.

A part of me wants to say something to him about all of the latest developments but I would be talking to myself wouldn't I?

ahem.....and you think this is a good Plan B? Help me out here LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Starfish,

NO, NOT! I know this! I just couldn't resist getting a peek at his throw down hangout! I will not do anything stupid. All of you MBs out there have me hearing "N/C MEANS N/C!" I know the best way is to not say or do anything.

On the other hand, it sure felt good to see some heads turn my way! I havent't been feeling very beautiful lately given the fact my WH just tossed me aside. But I don't look too bad for a woman approaching 40 and it's nice to know someone was looking my way.

BUT... yuck, to even think of getting involved in that dating world again turns my stomach! Do you know that a 28 year old man approached me last night and he was so funny. I told him that he wouldn't want to get involved w/ me, EVER. He was telling me how beautiful I was and was so cute. I laid it all out there for this guy...Married, going through a divorce, 3 kids ages 9 11 and 13. Too funny! I told my friend that he was my little Ashton and I was his little Demi!!!

I want to get serious here for a minute. I need advice on what to do when he comes back tomorrow. He has been gone for 9 days and we haven't talked to him and before that I was pretty much in plan b mode.

I have some hefty bills that need attention right away and Christmas is here and need to shop for the family. I don't want to talk to him at all, even for one second.

And there's the issue of my latest discovery. He doesn't know that I know. And I'm not about to mention what I know to him. One problem that I'm deeply struggling w/ is the tremendous hurt I'm feeling right now. It hurts so much that if there wasn't a plan B I still wouldn't talk to him. I see this situation now as absolutely hopeless. I don't ever see myself w/ my WH ever again and this is very difficult for me b/c I guess in the back of my mind I thought we might have another shot somewhere down the line.

I can't bear to think that he would be seeing this o/w during the holidays and having even a harder time b/c I imagine him scene by scene w/ her there in that hotel room.

Basically I want to know what my next steps are. I mean tell me exactly step by step how I need to handle myself in these next days. I do not have a go between, just my attorney. I don't like that very much for obvious reasons. I'm thinking of asking a friend of mine to help me out w/ that end, but would I be overburdening her w/ an unpleasant task?

During the last seperation I did write a plan B letter to him. He later told me that all of the letters I had written to him were ridiculous. So I hesitated this time to write another plan B letter. At one point this time I did speak to him (earlier on) and told him why I felt we needed to seperate again, that it was a final attempt to save our marriage before there truly was nothing left. That the verbal abuse was emotionally killing me. I just felt that he wouldn't take my letter seriously given his comments about the others.

Do you feel that any letter like that would be important? I just want to start to heal emotionally and I don't want to take this painful baggage w/ me in the future. I want to do everything I need to do to survive this ordeal. I'm a little anxious just knowing that he is going to be back tomorrow and I know he will want to contact at least the kids. It wouldn't surprise me if he comes knocking on my door. We don't let him in anymore, but it's just the pain of him coming over.

Please help. I really need a strong dose of support this evening.

Oh... I am sorry... I forgot to pray for you the last couple of days. I will step up that front of warfare.

Strengthen yourself in the Lord. Look to Him for Goodness. Once you have that in line - remember who you are in Him. I know that this has been helping me deal with my spiritual man; the emotional has been like you. Atty's are not very good to talk to or have them talk for you; the always seem to get things messedup. So all your talking with the foggy man will not help! He will still hear that which he wants - maybe someone can answer this but I know that in the fog my WW is very happy to make me hurt and squirm and feel like a pile of doo doo.

Keep the distance and be careful of where you go. I read that in Plan B you need an intemediary. Do you have one? Maybe a Pastor or someone that you know he might talk with without getting angry at. Not someone to preach at him but someone to try and love him.

Don't let him doubt your physical attributes - you are the apply of god's eye. You are His child - His wonderfully made child. He knew you before you were born and gave you all that you need to make it through life. I know it is hard at times but isn't that what faith is about. Knowing who is on the throne and what He can do when we believe that He will work all things together for good.

You are doing great - by the way disregard anything in this message if you were just venting frustrations. By the way before I forget - I want you to know that it is his loss and I truly mean that. Your Spirit shines forth with love for your kids and even for him. I will not tell you there is hope I can only tell you to seek Him that can do miracles.

my thoughts and prayers are for you....

I am a lawyer in Florida, and I used to do family law but don't anymore. What is this crap about getting ready for mediation? Call your lawyer Monday morning and DEMAND that he/she file an emergency motion for temporary alimony and child support THAT DAY. You need a judge to order support payments. You can get an order preventing him from dissipating assets, and if he defies the order you can get an offset against remaining assets. Your lawyer should have told you that assets accumulated during the marriage are marital assets, regardless of whose name they are in, including his business interests.

star, a marital settlement agreement is a voluntary distribution of assets and liabilities. A court can order distribution if the parties can't reach an equitable agreement.