<small>[ January 19, 2004, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Waiting_Waiting_Waiting ]</small>

<small>[ January 19, 2004, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Waiting_Waiting_Waiting ]</small>

This is tough because even though you and Betty aren't married, you have a bond with her daughter. It sounds like cutting off all ties with Betty is your answer, and you will miss her daughter as I'm sure she will miss you, but it sounds like a sacrifice you'll have to make. Emma is young and it sounds like she has her Dad present in her life. You sound like a great guy - move on - without Betty.
Best wishes to you.

I agree that the best thing is to forget and move on without her. I wish I had done that and not married my WS as recently I had to endure the harsh reality that a cheating heart is hard to live with. Find someone who is good, moral and God-fearing.

I don't get it. Why would you want to get back together with a gf who is f**ked up. You should get on your knees and thank your lucky stars that she broke off the engagement.

Hello,

Since you are level headed I think you need to understand this. While you were engaged to her and living with her she lied and cheating on you with another man behind your back. If she is able to do this to you while she is engaged to you what do you think she will do after you are married?
You saved yourself a lot of money by not having to divorce her. Move on and seek out somebody in the future who has respect for you and understands what a committed relationship means.
You actually are a very lucky man and will realize this in the future with someone else.

<small>[ January 19, 2004, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Waiting_Waiting_Waiting ]</small>

If you actually had been married, you might have gotten different advice, at least from me. Yosh always tells people to give up on their relationship.

Should you confront her - yes. Honesty is always a good thing (think about it, how did she manage to cheat - by being dishonest), and Plan B involves telling the person why you do not want to see them.

You should also inform the OM's wife. If you were in her position, you would want to know.

As for the daughter...well, if you want to have a great marriage, you need to be in love with the mother, not the daughter. Do not confuse family with marriage. The best thing for the daughter is for the mother to have a great marriage with her biological father. The second best thing would be for her mother to have a great marriage with someone else. If you are not that someone else, your relationship with the daughter will interfere with the mother's future relationship with her future spouse. If you really want to help the daughter, figure out how to have a great marriage with her mother - but that requires focusing on the mother, not the daughter.

I say this from both theory and personal experience. We have four kids. When my wife and I finally learned how to have a good marriage (thanks to God and Willard Harley), our relationships with all of them improved. This despite the fact that one of the problems with our marriage was that we spent too much of our time and energy on the kids, instead of on each other, and fixing our marriage meant changing that. When we learned how to apply what we learning about our relationship to each other to our relationships to them, they improved further. Things are not perfect, but they are improving still.

There are a couple of things that Harley has written that I think will help you A LOT, no matter what happens with your girlfriend. One is to read through the Basic Concepts section of this web site. The other is the book "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders", which is about the differences between living together and being married.

Click on the link in my signature line if you want more info on recovery, Plan A, Plan B, etc.

<small>[ December 19, 2003, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

John makes excellent points. I agree, you got the sort of advice you got because you hadn't taken the step into marriage with her, and right now, it doesn't sound like a very solid beginning if you were to choose to marry. She does sound confused.

In answer to your question. YES. Confront her with your information. Complete and open honesty. This can be done in a very non LB'ing way. Let her know you know and that even though you want your relationship to continue into marriage (which I gather you do) it can't continue at all with OM in the picture. Let her know how you FEEL. You must then cut off all ties. I agree with Bryan - this is all about your relationship with Betty and not the little girl.

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waiting,

Plan A must come before Plan B. Plan A consists of stopping lovebusters, filling needs, confronting the wayward with your feelings about the affair and exposing the the affair. I think you should complete Plan A before moving to B. Confront her with your feelings about her affair. Expose the affair to Sam's wife. His wife has a right to be able to mend her own relationship with the information that her marriage is in trouble.

The suggestions to implement either plan A or B is to prevent the break of a family while there is hope. If a marriage can be saved, you would have received advice about steps to take. In your case, you still have the opportunity or the blessing to walk away before much more damage is done. From personal experience I tell you, do not put yourself through it. There are many women out there and among them you may find one who is decent and honest.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I’m actually a bit surprised at the replies have received since I had though the whole point of plan “B” was to reconcile after infidelity. I assumed that I would get posts from those with that philosophy, the feeling I am getting from those who have posted so far is “She cheated on you so just forget about her”. Not what I expected.

That said, don’t stop saying it if that is how you feel. Here I am nine months later and I am still having a hard time even getting angry at Betty (although the weekend plan fiasco with Emma certainly did upset me – probably the angriest I have been so far). It is somewhat refreshing to have people jump in and slam her since I certainly haven’t been able to do it myself.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Waiting_Waiting_Waiting - While you can apply the theories and procedures of MB to a girl/boy friend or a fiance, they are primarily intended for a married couple.

Now, while I don't see any mention of God in your postings let me simple state something and you take it for what you think it might be worth.

Marriage is ordained by God as a COVENANT between man, woman, and God. Regardless of whether or not you believe in God, that is the way it is.

If you don't believe in God and choose to get married (lots of folks do), then expect only that societal "ideas" of what is right and what is wrong to guide your marriage.

From God's standpoint, marriage is lifetime deal, for all the good times and all the bad times. It is a "special" relationship. The person you decide to marry should be someone that you will stay with regardless of future problems and difficulties. From personal experience I can tell you that there is little worse than infidelity in a marriage.

You have had the great gift of finding out before entering the covenant what your ex-fiance is really like. If that is not enough for you, then proceed however your feelings guide you. But understand this one thing, feelings (emotions) will lie to you most of them time, so be very careful.

Regarding the little girl, it is said and I understand and commend your caring. But that is NOT a valid reason to get married. To adopt her, possibly, but not to marry a mother who visibly could care less about anyone other than herself.

Do you have any idea why your ex-fiance is not with the girl's biological father? Were they married, or did they have a child out of wedlock, like she was trying to convince you to do? If they were married, why did they divorce? A lot of questions that are important that you either don't know or have not provided in your postings.

Regarding the married man's wife, your ex-f has already destroyed their marriage, the OM's betrayed spouse just doesn't know it yet. If you are a caring person, which it seems you are, then you need to inform the OM's wife. Right now you, your selfish ex-fiance, and her adulterous lover all know about the affair and the wife is being kept in the lying dark. It is time that the ex-f and the MM get to "play" while the light of truth is shining on them.

Lastly, you need to run from this woman as a potential mate just as fast as you can. There will always be pain and hurt, but trust me on this one, it's nothing like what you would be setting yourself up for, for the rest of your life if you choose "unwisely."

What she needs is serious psychological counseling, but since she must choose it, it is unlikely to happen.

God bless.

Waiting,

A lot of people have stated portions of what I wanted to post to you, so what you are going to hear from me is somewhat a repeat, my apologies. However, I think you have a few things to consider from a different point of view.

First, you are getting the advice to move on because you do not have a marriage to save, and the people you have heard from know you are treading on ice you don't need to be on. Rebuilding a marriage is very tough. Starting one with someone who has the issues your GF has is a whole nother matter.

I am somewhat unique on this site because although I have been here a long time I have NOT had affairs touch my marriage. I was a batchelor until my 30's and dated alot of woman. I was also engaged once before meeting my present W.

Why am I telling you this? Let's start with the obvious.

1. I can assure you there are many woman out there that can and would make a very good mate for you and mother of your children. Your exGF is NOT as unique as you might think.

2. Engagements are often misinterpretted. They are to determine if the man and woman really can handle commitment and have a chance of facing live as a married couple. In today's society people think living together does that, but they are wrong and the data supports that they are wrong. The reality is that your exGF was engaged and she fled to the internet and to talking to an old classmate. She left you for him. You two are NOT engaged now, although you might feel that you are.

Waiting, your engagement served its purpose. You found out that your exGF is not interested in marrying you and has found someone else to run around with. She MAY not be interested in marrying him IF he were available. But, that is really not useful data.

3. There are NO commitments between you two, no vows taken, no marriage. This is important to remember for the rest of this discussion.

4. I don't know your age, but I am confident that I am a lot older than you are, and perhaps even your parents. So let me share with you somethings I have learned in my life that just might help you in yours.

A commitment is a very very serious thing and should be honored and treated as sacred.

In life you find yourself in many situations where a decision must be made and often neither choice seems very good. Look at the data Waiting, look at the data, it will tell you which way to go. In my life, the major decisions have always been made for me. Yes, I could have chosen to go the other way, but the data was clear and I followed it. I have NEVER regretted doing that.

I mentioned I was engaged. Well, my GF did pretty much what yours did. She choose another man. I really had little choice but accept that and I moved on with my life. I have never regretted doing that. Oh! I still recall that young lady, but it is with great sadness, you see the man she choose murdered her. She had data as well according to her mother, but she choose to ignore it.

Waiting, this site is for rebuilding a marriage, or improving a marriage. You are surprised that people are advising you to leave, but the reality is that you do NOT have a relationship nor do you have a marriage. Look at the data. You sound like a fine young man. A man that takes his commitments seriously, and a man who is willing to do the work to make a relationship and marriage work. You found this site and I hope you have read everything on it, for there is out there a young woman, that would benefit greatly from what you learned and who will match your commitment with her own.

Waiting, that is a relationship and a marriage. Two people willing to match commitments and live by them. As you can see on this site, people fail sometimes in their commitment, but you will also see that often they can recommit and become very good H's and W's. However, in the beginning they were willing to commit and stand up in front of everyone and proclaim that commitment. Your exGF is not such a woman with regards to you.

In your case your exGF is not willing to commit. I think you know what advice I would offer you about this if I offered you any, but my ONLY advice is to step back and look at the data. I think your decision has been made for you, and I think you will come to realize that you will be better off with that decision. BUT, it is yours to make.

God Bless,

JL