CMJ: Don't ever sign anything giving away your financial rights. He is in a fog and still denial. H can't have everything his way in reality like during A. You are a strong person, you will get through this - I believe in you! You are stronger than you think - just look how you have helped me in such a short time.

Can you and H go to a neutral place for however long it might take and really discuss all your feelings, emotions, hopes for the future either together or apart? I have tried this many times and it has helped us. I am not saying that it is not painful - it's emotionally draining, but at the same time helpful.

Last night I tried to go to dinner with H, but it started out horrible. At the restaurant, I began asking him humiliating questions with ease on my part because I still want him to feel the humiliation I felt at our daughter's reception. It was a nightmare! Argued for 2 hrs., but somehow we connected emotionally and talked, really talked.

I know you will survive - I am still here only because of you. Thank you! Thank God for you!

Star*Fish: Thanks for the reply. H is still in fog - very slowly coming out. We went and bought more books yesterday on infidelity and emotional infidelity. Unfortunately, I found out the A would have been rekindled(intimately) again. Never really stopped until I exposed everything. H and I have made some progress, but will be a very, long road ahead. He is reading all of the books, but still has trouble with the labels.

I am a strong person - stronger than I ever thought. I am trying to hold on to hope. Thanks.

... my H says he has found my posts and disagrees with some of the things I have written...

That's to be expected. (And if you're reading this, Mr. CMJ, please, join us. We'd like to talk to you, too.) There are always two sides to every story, and both sides can be accurate even when they appear to be very different.

One of the things he said was that if I could tell him "how" we could work things out, then he would put all his efforts into it. Let me add that when he said this, I think he was really saying that he doesn't think we can work it out. I responded by telling my H that I love him, that I know we can work it all out and that I will give him a "plan" after the weekend.

I would say it's probably a peak out of the very difficult and painful place he's in. Will it last? Hm, well, perhaps not. He's probably got himself pretty well convinced that all is doom and gloom where your marriage is.

Two days later, my H called me at work and said that he didn't want to discuss any of our issues or any ways of dealing w/ them until I sign a paper that waives my rights to any of his income so that I would only get my share of the house in the settlement.

Attempts at blackmail are not acceptable forms of marital negotiation. The answer to this and any other similar statements is a straightforward and firm "No." If he wants to work things out with you, then the talks with the lawyers end without ANY legal documents being signed. Period.

He said that he wouldn't work on the marriage unless I did that, that I was a terrible person if I tried to "go after" his income, that is was "embezzling" from him, and that I needed to show him "what kind of a person" he married before he would agree to work on anything.

Blackmail, intimidation, threats, and lies. (Embezzling?? Hello, uhm, Mr. CMJ? She's your wife, not your employee.)

I responded that I told my attorney that I didn't want a divorce, but if it came to that, I just wanted a "fair" settlement. I also told my H that we should focus on fixing the marriage, not worrying about the settlement - it was putting the cart before the horse.

Good for you!!

I love my H and I would happily give up all the money we both have if that would get him to end his A, recommit to the M, and help me build a beautiful relationship together.

But it won't, so don't bother. He's feeling intensely insecure about his money for some reason, but that's really unlikely to affect anything else except make him even more prone to odd and unpleasant behavior.

Well, my H persisted to say I was a bad person because of the money, and that got to me, especially since he is the one who says things to hurt me and is having an affair and lied about it. So, I said, first you show ME what kind of a person I married, you stop your A and any contact w/ your mistress and have your attorney send a "no contact" letter to her and then we'll talk.

You go girl! That's the limits to have.

He said he wouldn't do this, that he was glad he had the affair and that he would do it all over again because I didn't meet his needs and that he didn't think I could, that therefore it was excusable to have an A, and he didn't regret it and would just keep on having A's.

Poor little boy isn't getting his way and is therefore having a rather unpleasant tantrum. Yawn. Whatever. Like most little boys who have tantrums, I'd recommend leaving him kicking and screaming on the floor of the grocery store. When he realizes that no one's paying attention, I suspect he'll find something else to do.

I know I can meet his needs, but he doesn't want to believe it. He also believes that our marriage and relationship were terrible and that there weren't many good times - I know this is not true - my H is a very smart man and he wouldn't have married me if he really thought the relationship was that bad - it makes no sense - this is all rewriting history.

All this is the very confused state of a man who is in a great deal of pain and who has not sorted out what parts of the pain are coming from where. No matter how intelligent he is. It's as if he's a stereo system and his emotions are turned up to full volume. What's coming out is so badly distorted that not even he can really figure out what it is, though he thinks he can.

I know I have often felt like my H didn't give me enough attention or care about me, and he would just ignore my requests for change over and over again, but I never used that as an excuse to have an A or to be cruel.

But he did. That doesn't make him better or worse than you. (Yeah, yeah, morally speaking he's in deep doodoo. I'm talking about strength of person here, though, and the strongest person in the world is still susceptible to an affair.) It DOES mean that he's gotten himself into a world of hurt and doesn't know how to get himself back out. He's lashing out at you because he thinks, in his confused state, that you're the one who's creating all the hurt. It'll be a while before he figures out that he's wrong. In the meantime, it's important for you to be protected from further pain.

I cannot believe that this is the same person I married - it's awful and hurts so much that he has absolutely no regard for my feelings.

It's not. Trust me on this one. Looks the same, but he's not. He's someone else, and the more you can treat him like a stranger who's acting oddly, the more likely you are to be all right.

I cannot believe that another human being could be so cruel to someone else, especially his wife. I was completely shocked and I hung up and wouldn't listen to him when he called back.

Yeah. I just... yeah. That part gets me, too. I have no idea how people can do this stuff to one another, even though I have, in days past, caused this much pain in another perosn.

What should I do or say? I think that our M is completely over and I'm starting to think that the person I fell in love with never really existed or will never return. Help...any advice??

I think your marriage as you knew it is over, yes. What you'll have in the future is simply an unknown. The future is ALWAYS unknown to us. So, what I'd suggest looking at is the NOW. Give it a really, really hard look. What do you see? How unhappy have you been in the last few weeks? How weird has your husband been? How likely is it that you can manage to continue Plan A?

Personally, if you're already talking to lawyers, I'd suggest that you're going to need to be in Plan B really, really soon. Discussions about divorce are automatically adversarial, and there's just no way to make them anything else. It's going to be impossible to be in Plan A during that, no matter how much of a saint you are.

Hugs. I hope this helps a bit, CMJ.

CMJ,

Just briefly read the last 2 pages of your thread so if I missed anything, please let me know. My user name is Orchid and I usually post more on the GQII board but occassionaly step over here. I have been at MB since 2000 as a poster.

From what I could glean your H is still in his foggy angry stage and wants you to take the blame. This is a scary time to delve into any financial life altering decisions and you are wise to deal through your attorney.

It also maybe best to deal everything through your attorneys. When he grumbles about the costs, let him know that is what he and the OW want and you are just complying. However, when he is asking you to give up your financial security, you need to stand your ground. The OW and WS should in NO WAY benefit from the D financially. NO WAY. If their A is sooo great, they w/b willing to live in the dirt to survive. Most of us had to struggle at the beginning of our Ms so why not their A have no less?

See if you can get into some phone counseling sessions with Steve. He is great with stubborn azzes like the way a WS can be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Try reading this thread: Believer's thread

Take a look at the book: Love must be tough by Dr James Dobson. Read it in addition to Dr Harley's books.

Hope this helps.

L.

<small>[ January 18, 2004, 07:31 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

JLight,

Just a short note if you are comfortable, could you post your story on our own thread? It would help all to see your story and post directly to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks,
L.

Orchid: December 2003 my suspicions were confirmed that my H was having an A with his ex-secretary. I knew earlier, but did not want to ruin my D's wedding reception. The OW was there. On the drive up the previous day, I told H I did not want OW at reception, but too late. OW even called to check where we were. Reception was beautiful, except for them. I held it together for my beautiful daughter. Went to mother-in-law's room to talk with family members and OW showed up drunk. H flirted with her. Obnoxious! Tried to confront H later in hotel room, he got very angry and big fight ensued.(alcohol) I stayed up all night not knowing what I would do in am. Loaded car at 5am and sat in lobby till breakfast. Spoke with daughter and other family and friends. 2 close friends saw the pain on me, like a lot of friends saw at reception. I confronted H in room - he denied. I called OW and asked her to come to our room. Anything for her lover. Her stupidity brought her to our room in 2 min. I confronted them, they denied, H couldn't look at me, OW was in shock and cried(interesting). I told them to leave room and said this A was over. Waited for H to go with me, took him too long to think, he said are you sure this is what you want????? 12 hr. drive home to the start of hell!H was in denial for 3 more days and then started confessing bits and pieces of A through my "interrogation". H even tried to turn D's against me and say I was crazy and needed medication, but backfired. My D's are too intelligent for that garbage!

He contacted marriage therapist end of 1st week. We are going on 1 month this Tuesday, 20th. Have had 2 counseling sessions with a terrific lady. I could talk to her all day! He started to open up at 2nd session. Have been reading lots of books on infidelity, emotional infidelity, etc.

I have lost 15-20lbs., have trouble sleeping, nightmares, little concentration, but still have a sense of humor. I left my job as HR counselor, moved from family(father is dying),friends for what was supposed to be a brand new life 12 hrs. away. Something I had really looked forward to. I was very excited about this move, but unfortunately so was the OW. H had planned on bringing OW to work for him again in April. I have emails(hundreds), cell phone tapes(private box), cell phone records($1200), and harassing calls to prove. I found a card I had bought last October(when he accepted new job) to give my H. It was a couple walking hand in hand down the beach. I still have card, but may never be able to give to him. That is up to him now.

This A started as a friendship(sick), graduated to intimacy, back to emotional A, and would have grown back to intimacy if I had not opened up the ugly can of worms. Thinking back, I would have done a lot of things differently, but am trying not to dwell on that. Oh yeah, this OW pretended to be a friend of mine - what better way to get to H than through his W. She was nothing more than the devil in disguise!

I died the day I confronted them, but I did not lose my intelligence. I am now smarter than ever and refuse to give up. I will give it my all for as long as I can, but my H will have to give more than 25%. H says he loves me, bought flowers twice, cards, talking more, but my guard will never be down again.

Don't get me wrong, I still have a lot of bad days. I can't even work yet. Although I can't say yet I love him, I do have love for him.

Update from CMJ...

I want to thank everyone who responded - I really appreciate it! I was so upset with the terribly unkind things that my H said to me, and although I didn't think there was any hope in saving the marriage, I felt that I had to at least try because I made a vow to my H and to God and I just wouldn't be proud of who I am or happy in the long-run if I gave up on the marriage regardless of my reasons. I know we can have a great relationship, but I can't do it alone and it's sad to see that my H has walked away from the beautiful life that is waiting for us.

Star*Fish - Let me respond to your questions...
(1) Plan A/B: I did Plan A for only a few months - I was really good and even my H commented, but now he seems to have forgotten - then everything fell apart at the end of Dec when I revealed the A - he became VERY angry and now hates me. (see prior posts) I now know way too much about so many things - I even know more than he does about her - the whole thing is awful.

I moved to Plan B but I have not been very good about it (LB's a lot) -- it's been hard b/c we still live in the same house and I have trouble not reacting to the things he says to me or does. He doesn't even feel bad about carrying on w/ the A - he thinks he's justified and isn't sorry. (He won't move out of the house & I'm looking for an apt - I can't afford it on my own.)

I spoke w/ Dr. Harley last week, who advised Plan B and sending the letter (although I doubt my attorney will allow me to send the letter, or if I do it will be a watered-down version just to H). Before I spoke to Dr. H I did a very bad verbal version of the letter by refusing to talk to my H. He said I was being disrespectful and I replied that no, he had been extremely disrespectful and cruel when he last spoke to me, that this keeps happening, and that the consequence of treating me that way is that I cannot have any contact w/ him. It wasn't good, and I'm sure he things I'm a terrible person now (more LB). I should have been more patient, but I've endured this so long and he went about 1000 miles over the line and he doesn't even see how bad it was. Also, his relationship w/ the OW is more involved than he admitted and I think I should have been in Plan B months ago. He keeps saying that he is "afraid" to find someone new, etc - what lies - he has found someone and he actually thinks they have a good relationship - well, I guess he'll have to find out the truth the hard way.

(2) Who knows about the affair...
(a) The OW knew he was married, but she doesn't know everything. I don't know if it would change anything given what I know about her and her real motives.
(b) His parents already knew about the A, but they don't know the full truth about the A, the things he says/does or our relationship. There are a couple others who knew, but again same story about what they've been told vs. the rest of the story.
(c) Her parents originally didn't know he was married. He says that they have been told everything and are "OK" with it - not true - they do not know the real story.

I feel like my H's relationship w/ the OW and all his lies and deception as a result have completely distorted who he is as a person, his perception of me and our relationship, and eroded his morals and ideas about what's right/wrong. The odd thing is that he seems so depressed, sad and angry. I told him that if he was making the right decisions, and doing what's right and what's best for him now or in the long-run, then he would have felt peace and happiness when he made his decisions. Instead he was miserable, which should show him that deep inside he knows he has made huge mistakes and that he will deeply regret the affair and the divorce. However, I think that these feelings are so uncomfortable for him that he will continue to believe things that are not true. I feel like I'm watching him speed towards the edge of a cliff, and when I try to warn him or stop him, he thinks I'm trying to hurt him, so he just goes faster and there is nothing that I can do to help him.

I have to say that I am having a hard time holding onto this, not only b/c I think my H will never realize that he's made a mistake, but also because of everything he's said and everything I know - I know way, way too much. What bothers me are all the lies and deceit - OMG - I think of all the times he pretended to be talking about a co-worker but was really talking about OW - or he was asking his co-workers questions b/c of his interest in a relationship w/ OW - I won't even list all the things - or his sudden new interest in certain books or sports - or the lies and mean things that he told his family and friends about me (and that he seems to believe!). It must be that he thinks that I don't know about it or that he is justified or it isn't that bad. It seems that he doesn't even care that I'm a human being w/ feelings, let alone that I'm his wife.

Here's my questions: How do I Plan B while living in the same house? What if I can't send the letter, or I can only send it to him, or it can't be a full letter b/c of the divorce and the attorneys? What else should I do, if anything?

Thanks everyone.

P.S. JustJ - Thank you for responding - You gave me great perspective on the whole thing and I even laughed at some of your replies - I will try to adopt your attitude and stop being such a doormat. It would be nice to create a new & better marriage w/ my H, but I can't stop him from going over the edge of the cliff.

JLight - sorry I haven't responded - I am here but I just had an awful week so I will try to keep up w/ you. Hang in there - it looks like you received some great advice.

Orchid - Thank you for the info and advice - I will start reading and see if it helps me. If nothing else, I am learning a lot about relationships and I'm proving that I can stick to my values and beliefs regardless of what my H is doing or saying, or how easy it would be (or how justified I might feel) to just throw things away.

cmj, I just want to tell you that I think you're doing great! You seem like you've pulled yourself together in spite of how much of a jerk your husband is acting. You're in counseling with Dr. Harley which puts you in a good position to get alot of positive feedback. In some of your previous posts you asked how could your husband be so cruel, can I comment? He's in a deeeeep fog. He was so angry that you discovered the affair that he didn't know what to do. He had probably been telling his mistress that he was going to divorce you but he didn't have to because you didn't know he was in an A. He was doing what's known as cakeeating. (Having his cake and eating it to, little does he know that his cake on the side is at somebody else's party..you mentioned your PI found her with someone else)

He's making alot of decisions based on his emotions and he's not seeing clear. Don't be discouraged because you read about WS that want to work on their marriage and your H doesn't appear to. You don't know what is going to really happen and two months from now your husband could come out of his fog and really want to save his M. The most important thing now is for you to protect yourself emotionally. He'll be okay, and if he isn't that's not your concern because by having an A, and telling you he wants a D, he's relieved you of your responsibility to care about his pain and suffering.

If your H had really read your posts, he'd know the 22 y/o that he is in an A, has another boyfriend.

Good luck and I'll keep you in my prayers.

N,

Thanks for the reply, but unfortunately I think things are worse than you might have thought - I think my H really did (and does) want to divorce me and I think it has a lot (if not everything) to do w/ the A and his fog perception/beliefs of our relationship and me. It's very sad to see this happening, and unfortunately I do still worry about him b/c every once in a while he starts to cry and I see that where he is headed will only lead to more pain and sorrow, but I can't help him. I still love my H and I don't want anything bad to happen to him. If I didn't love him, I wouldn't care and I wouldn't hurt.

I also sincerely doubt that he is reading my posts, but it wouldn't matter on the OW issue (her fling w/ the good-looking guy) because I spilled the beans during a heated discussion. (not a good thing to do) Of course, my H said he didn't believe me. I later learned from Dr. Harley that it is common for: (1) the OW/OM to either currently or eventually cheat on your spouse (this was surprising to me) and (2) the spouse to refuse to believe the OW/OM could be anything but wonderful and to believe whatever excuse the OW/OM gives them, so Dr. H said it doesn't matter that I told him because he won't believe it until it is too late - then he comes out of the fog and lands hard on his own. Gosh - I actually do feel bad for my H as I'm writing this...maybe I am a doormat.

Thanks for the support and prayers. I am getting stronger but I could use all the help I can get! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I know everyone is busy, but I just wanted to put my 2 questions (from my earlier post tonight) up to the top in the hopes that it will be easier for me to get a response...

Here's my questions:

How do I Plan B while living in the same house?

What if I can't send the letter, or I can only send it to him, or it can't be a full letter b/c of the divorce and the attorneys?

What else should I do, if anything?

I'm responding because I don't want you to have a question out there hanging, but I'm not an experienced MB so I don't have an answer. I think YOU are doing great and that's what's important. I'm sad that your M isn't doing great, but YOU are doing well under the circumstances. Your posts never have any typos and that's saying something! I'm sure Dr. H is right, he's still in a fog, and I don't want you to think that I don't want you to care about your husband, I know you love him and you're supposed to, but you didn't cause him to have such tough times he cries, HE DID. You're not in a position to comfort him because during this time in the fog, he's not going to let you. The best thing you can do for both of you is to take care of yourself. His meanness won't hurt as much or as long because there will be other avenues in your life where you receive positive affirmations. Stay strong!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cmj:
<strong> I know everyone is busy, but I just wanted to put my 2 questions (from my earlier post tonight) up to the top in the hopes that it will be easier for me to get a response...

Here's my questions:

How do I Plan B while living in the same house? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: It is hard but you can set the terms for conversation. I used mail, money and child visitation. The WS couldn't hold to that for more than 1 week. It was hard for me too but it paid off.

Learn what your boundaries are, identify your primary issues and keep R talk out of the picture. Remember to love your H not the WS. When he acts like the WS, shut him out even if it means inconviencing other needs like.

ws: I am going to fix the sink.

bs: No that's ok, it is dripping and driving us crazy not to mention the fact that we are losing 2 gallons of water per hour but your atitude is worse. I will call a non WS plummer.

ws: How will you know the plummer is not a WS?

bs: I'll ask him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What if I can't send the letter, or I can only send it to him, or it can't be a full letter b/c of the divorce and the attorneys?

What else should I do, if anything? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid: Your letter is about your needs. Not about the family's financial future. What does your lawyer have to do with that? You can use your lawyer to deliver it but if you are in the same household you can just leave it in a place for him to find and give a copy to your lawyer as an FYI.

I have not heard a lawyer say not to send a plan B type of letter.

Of course these are just my opinions.
Weigh in all your options. Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart.

take care, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
L.

hi babygirl,

I sorry. I read through all this and it seems like your husband is not the man you've married. There were a lot of things in the relationship that were not going correctly. THese things build up and an affair is the result instead of divorce. It's shocking that he went for a divorce so fast. Don't you need more time for that? anyways he is still scared and ashamed of himself. He may try to convince himself otherwise. It was the first reaction I got from my husband where he goes back and forth with is feelings. And the days I packed and got ready to leave....he said "FINE". Well he went from begging me to stay till telling me to go away. When the day dawn for me to just leave and say goodbye forever. As I was taking a shower he enter the shower with his all his clothes socks and all..he cried and begged for me to stay and for us to work it out. For some reason I think your husband is still in the stage where he can't seem to live with his selfishness.

Right now my husband and I are making deposits into each other's bank. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am smiling and trying to forgive what he did and just enjoy each other like the first time. He even says he feel like things that has happened brought us so much closer.. I just hope I get lucky and we can just wind through this.

And babygirl.. chin up. Take care of yourself I didn't eat for days.. and it is even harder sometimes for me to eat now.. but if your husband contact you, be nice, caring.. because you still have those feelings toward him. Even when he hurts you so much there was still the memories, and the love that you both shared.

Take this from..although my husband couldn't take it into his heart and just told me the truth one day after the affair. Our stories are different, but I somehow still see hopes. If not... I cannot say "MOVE ON" but take care of yourself.. buy something..... go to a spa.

KISSES

Email me whenever you wish.

Need Lots of Support: <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Well, all the stress and lack of sleep has finally caught up to me. I have lost almost 25 lbs. now, and I've completely fallen apart on the job and I think there is nothing left standing in my life. I have no marrige, no where to live yet and soon no job so how will I afford rent - so basically everything is gone or going.

I understand that my depression earlier this summer, and my long hours at work, caused my H to want to leave the marriage, but I just feel like nothing I did was so bad as to deserve to have him give up on the marriage after only a few months (I really did the best I could when I was depressed and I've been at such a loss at to what to do since I recovered from depression in order to fix things, and he seems to just want to believe the worst anyway), or to have him start a relationship with another woman a few months after we were married, or to get ready to go out to see her in front of me, or to refuse to let me borrow the car (which I paid half of) to even go run an errand b/c he didn't want to be delayed from seeing his mistress - in short, he has no concern for my feelings at all and he just blames it all on me.

I feel like he is punishing me because he thinks I had an A before we were married and because I couldn't meet his needs or change fast enough when I was very depressed (the Dr thinks it was triggered by an issue w/ my ovaries and I've now fixed the problem - w/o any support or help from H - I didn't even ask b/c last time it happened, he never inquired as to how I was doing and, more importantly, because this time he was so busy dating his mistress that he hasn't even gone to see his dying mother very often, so how could I in good conscience ask him to help me - I thought he should spend his time w/ his mom).

Well, I guess he got his revenge (for nothing)- he's hurt me beyond belief and my commitment to him and love for him have only caused me further pain and suffering and now hardship. He's doing fine - he'll like in the house, keep the car, continue his relationship and he's doing fine at his job. I guess the joke's on me.

God- what did I ever do to deserve this??? I did the best I could and I when I got better I never had a chance. I know I sound pathetic... I'll try to pull it together. I guess I will have to completely start over with my life - it's my fault for falling in love w/ him and for trying to fix things when this all happened instead of just focusing on myself. I'm a fool and I'm paying the price. Where do I go from here?

OK - I feel a little better after that vent. I'm not a very religious person, but I do believe in God and doing the right thing. I have started to take some strength lately from the idea that I have tried to do the right thing and I can hold my head high knowing that. I know that my H thinks I had an A and that he doesn't believe some of the things that he has said or that has happened, but it bothers me less and less b/c I know that truth. Yes, at first it hurt that he would think these things or tell me things didn't happen when other people were right there having the same conversation as I was, but now it bothers me much less - his opinions and beliefs don't change the facts. When I look in the mirror, I feel proud about how I've tried to fix our marriage and how I've been faithful even when he hasn't been.

I still need some kind words, and I'm trying to believe that if I just keep doing the right thing that eventually my life will be good no matter how bad it seems right now - and I will be happy and at peace with what I did or didn't do during this awful time.

Any support you can give me would be great! Thanks!

advice ayone?

Dear cmj,

Venting does wonders for our dipositions, 'eh? Probably even saves a few souls. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> It is important to learn how to work on you. It is hard for a BS to see that when all appears to be falling apart around them. Most BS feel ike they have to pick up all the pieces.

Reality is that we can't and shouldn't. Step back and take a look at what you have control over. Concentrate on that.

Have you read the book love must be tough by Dr Dobson? Good one to help a BS clear the air of the fog.

Remember to love your H not this WS rude monster. Stay away from the monster. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Here is a mb gift for you: take your left hand and put it on your right shoulder and take your righ hand and put in on your left shoulder, now squeeze.

.....there, you have just received an mb hug from me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My 1st mb hug was given to me when I 1st came to MB and felt as you did. That hug did wonders for my disposition and took me out of the depressing hole I had let myself fall into. I learned here that I couldn't cover all the holes so I needed to be smart and learn which ones to cover and which ones to step over.

take care,
L..

cmj?

How are you doing?

L.

<small>[ January 24, 2004, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Orchid,

Thanks for checking on me. I'm not doing so well, but I'm trying to believe that whatever happens to me (my marriage, my home, my health, my job, etc), eventually I will be OK and I will have a decent life. I believe that eventually we all get what we deserve, and I have been a good person, I'm trying to do the right thing regarding my marriage and my vows, and I have never (not before and not now) cheated on my H regardless of what he wants to believe. Maybe I'm wrong and I'll always have a bad life no matter what I do or don't do, but at least my conscience is clear and I'm feeling a little less depressed and a little happier each day. I have even forgiven my H - not that it makes what he says or does any less painful - but it has given me some peace.

It's been so hard for me because my H seems to have no regard for my feelings whatsoever, and he seems to want to believe bad things about me. It goes further than that - he actually says horrible, awful, disgusting and cruel things to me - I'm not exaggerating, even my counselor seems to be shocked by it. I have never, ever, ever, EVER in my life been treated with such unrelenting cruelty - and that says A LOT given what happened to me growing up. So, this has been a particularly awful time and it seems to be ruining everything in my life. In order to help myself detach, I'm trying to think of the H I knew and loved as no longer existing - the WH just looks like him but they are not anything alike on the inside. So, unless the real H is found, I have to accept that the person I adored and loved like no other is no longer around and I have to move on with my life. It's so sad to see how he's changed.

My H has been acting a little strange lately and I could use some advice on how to handle it. He seems to hate me and not want to have anything to do w/ me, but then on Friday night we spent time playing w/ the dog and he didn't say anything mean. He left on Saturday to see his sick mother - I was so glad b/c he should spend more time w/ her. Before he left, he again acted like he couldn't even look at me (guilt? shame? hatred?), but then looked at me and gave me a hug and he started crying (I assume about his mom). I tried to say something positive and encouraging about his mom b/c I know how awful it is to experience what he's going through. He then mentioned something about how he has been home lately but I haven't. I explained that I didn't think he wanted me around so I've been out late and just trying to heal by keeping distracted and distant. I'm not sure why he bothered to mention this b/c he's told me that he doesn't care about me. This was a little confusing. I also really wondered if he was taking his mistress to meet his mother - I think he has thought about doing this before. I can't imagine anything more low class or tasteless.

We agreed to have a talk about "us" when he gets home, but he said he didn't know when he'll be home (I think that means he'll be spending time w/ his mistress before he gets home). Is having that talk a good idea? What should I say? I just don't think I could hear the fog talk right now, but I know that he thinks we can't communicate and that not talking is a LB. So, I'm not sure what to do. Just listen? I can't vent and he doesn't want to be educated, so I'm not sure what to say...

Thanks for the advice.

Hi Cmj,

Just a short note. I have a family emergency of sorts (in-law issues) so I have only a few minutes.

Did you read my other post? Try out the cyber hug when you feel down. It will help.

As for talking with your H, better to be a listener. Even if what you say is good, his ears c/b plugged from the A. If you do want to say something, do something to get his full attention first. If his attention drifts, stop talking IMMEDIATELY!. Just stop mid sentence if needed. I gentley would ask my H if I could ask him a question. He never knew what I was going to ask so I had his attention. At first it was only for a few seconds, then minutes. Now it is for as long a I need (circumstances permitting). He does not shut me out when I ask in that soft tone.

The point is that you can't teach your H anything. Better to let him ask you to help him than to offer. Let him know you love your H. Not sure about the WS but you love your H.

Pray for patience, a clear mind and a calm heart. His is in turmoil right now and if his mom is sick then that just adds to the burden. However, it is his turmoil and you can't fix it for him..... no one can, only him.

Keep working on U. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I see you making progress.

Hugz,
L.