A little back ground. WW came back last Saturday. Said she wanted to work things out. Said she would not leave again and told me it was different this time(she came back before for 2 days and left again). Said it wasn't because of the holidays etc. So, the day after Christmas here is what she wrote to me. Can you tell me if I have any chance of winning her back or has she made up her mind to leave again...

Husband,
Today was a good day. The girls seemed happy. But…my heart is somewhere else.
I do not want to hurt you. You are a good man. I knew I was hurting you and the girls and I felt like I was losing them and was afraid to end things completely with you because I might just lose them. And I’m not going to lie to you and say I am not nervous about the future. I was. You were(are)a steady provider. By leaving I knew I would have to start over and things would be tough for awhile. It was a scary thought. But, you know what, I’m not afraid anymore. I know I can do it.
Like I said, I don’t want to hurt you, but, I am going to tell you what and how I feel.
I know in tech school (both military at the time) that I didn’t love you the way you deserved to be loved. I knew you were a good person and after you left I was nervous about starting again in the ‘dating’ pool. Not sure if I would end up with someone who would be abusive. I didn’t really want to get married but even back then I didn’t want to hurt you.
Husband, I don’t love you. I like you. You are a good person. I can laugh and have some fun with you but I don’t love you. My heart isn’t and hasn’t been yours. I have cared. I never believed that I would ever love or be loved the way I thought love was. I know now what it is like to really love someone and to be loved the same way.
I know you, the girls and other people don’t ‘get it’. But, it really isn’t for anyone else to get. I came back out of fear. Fear of the future not being as easy as it has been and fear of damaging and losing the girls. I don’t want to live in fear and I don’t want to live without the love that I have found and haven’t felt in my life since I was a little girl. I remember feeling that happy, accepted and complete but it has been so long ago. For some reason I didn’t think I was good enough to have that or that something was wrong with me so I couldn’t have it. But it did happen for me and I don’t want to lose it. He may not be perfect but I never expected you or anyone else to be perfect. All I know is I love him. When he is sick I want to take care of him. When he says or does something I don’t agree with I want to tell him about it and challenge his thoughts. I want to hear him laugh and see him smile.
I want you to have someone who cares for you like this. You are a wonderful person and you deserve this. I know you will find it but Husband, it is not me. I’m sorry.
You said you don’t want just a roommate. I can’t be more than that to you. I don’t want you to hurt. I don’t want you to be depressed or have anxiety and need meds. But, I can’t pretend to feel more for you than I do and I can’t keep living with guilt. That is one of the reasons I keep flopping back and forth. Because I have so much guilt and I feel responsible for keeping everyone happy. I can’t do it. I can’t make everyone happy.
I don’t know what else to say. I thought you have a right to know what I am really thinking.
Wife

I know much of this is fog, but it hurts and I'm not sure if she will stay and work through this. It may also be alot of withdrawal pains also. I'm at my wits end and need some advice. Please help...

This is one big, long justification for her affair. Many WSs swear that they never loved their partners. I think you need to not take to heart anything she says during this time period and stick to a good, solid plan.

She probably doesn't think she's ever loved anyone as much as she has this man. She may never have. She's also not differentiating between love and addiction.

This man doesn't ask her to do chores or run tasks for him the way that you do, because he's not married to her. She hasn't had to deal with being short on bills with him or the way he acts after 6 months of taking each other for granted. Reality hasn't settled into the fantasy.

I think that you need to thank her for sharing with you how she feels and tell her that you really appreciate her honesty. It is the ability to be honest about how you feel that is going to be the foundation of recovery.

Have you exposed the affair? Are you in Plan A? What steps have you taken? How long has the affair been going on? How long since D-day?

Sorry you are going through this. I know I'm not Cerri, but I offer my not-so-humble opinion anyway.

<small>[ December 29, 2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

Lost,

Lost is a very popular word here, when I came here I was lost everything. After about 6 months of hell, I found I didn't loose everything, I actually found the marriage I had always wanted. You can recover from this, I am not saying this is 100 % but there is hope, I am proof.

I heard everything you did and then some for about 4 months. One thing Takola said really rang true.
It is the ability to be honest about how you feel that is going to be the foundation of recovery. I never really thought of it in that sort of time frame but it wasn't until my H and I both we honest with each other did we start to sort out our issues.

I agree with Tak, thank her for being honest. Reassure her that her feelings are important to you even if you don't agree. DO NOT try to change her mind or convince her she is wrong. Her feelings are her, and whether you like it or not it's how she feels right now.

I would go get 2 books, the 1st is Lovebusters. You have to stop Lovebusting first and foremost. The second is Surving an Affair. It'll help you understand the fog, see her POV a little clearer and also help you with your Plan A.

Have you read everything here about Plan A? Do you understand the way it works? If not that is something else you need to do ASAP.

You need to make her feel safe. IMO the way to do that is to stop all lovebuster NOW and to slowly start meeting her needs. Make her feel special, let her know that you are someone she can talk to and depend on(this is done by actions not words). This is very hard, but I truly believe it brought my H and I close together. He couldn't understand why or how I could let me talk to me and grieve with me over OW. I was just so happy that he was sharing his life with me, to me it was a huge step in the right direction. I won't say it didn't hurt b/c it did but in the long run it was well worth it.

Someone once told me when my H was in the "FOG" believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see.............you know, they were right, H even admits that now.

Hang in there, I am no Cerri or Tak. Hope I helped.

le

Oh yeah, one more thing don't try to educate her about MB, make the changes to you. Let her see it working on you and hopefully she'll come around.

Lost, I know you were in Plan B for quite some time, and that your wife has just made her first attempt at reconciliation.

Don't expect this to be an easy road! She's going to go back and forth between two very painful roads for a while. You got to read that letter, and its honesty is indeed exceedingly important. It's also important to remember that the things she's saying to the OM are JUST as painful, though perhaps in different ways.

This is hell for her. Pure, simple, hell.

If she remains in the house and continues her honesty, then YOUR job is, yes, to listen and accept her honest feelings. And not to LB even when it hurts beyond words.

If she leaves again, well, then you head back into Plan B instantly.

I know it's painful for you, but remember that your pain is a reflection of her pain... except hers is twice what yours is. There's no easy road ahead of her. There are only two extremely painful choices. One (your marriage) is much more likely to turn out well in the end, but they BOTH hurt.

So just sit back and relax. You're back on the roller coaster for a while, and everyone whose Plan Bs end with reconciliation has to do this part. You can do it. Be strong, be steady, and remember that you've been through this before.

Thank you all for your replies. Its been a rough few days. I have done the things I shouldn't have done and now I realize this. I have made disrespectful judgements, tried to educate her, and most of all I pretty much told her that her feelings weren't true right now because of the affair. I realize now that was a BIG no no. I think I may have broken down her ability to open up to me. Instead of educating her, which I couldn't do even if I wanted, I should have been caring and ready to listen to her. I'm trying to do that now but I think damage has been done and it may take a long time for her to open up again...

Have you apologized to her for how you handled it and thanked her for opening up? Better late than never, you know.

"I really appreciate that you were able to open up to me and share your feelings. I sincerely regret the way I handled it. I hope you will accept my apologies for it."

And - for the love of God and the sake of all that is holy - do NOT give a single reason or excuse for why you handled it the way you did.

I have apologized to her. She opened up to me this morning. She says she doesn't want to hurt me or the kids, but she isn't happy. She wants to go back to the OM and I don't think there is anything that I can say or do that will convince her to stay. I said to her that I loved her and believed in her and our marriage. I said I feel we could work through this and have a better marriage than we ever did. I told her I had alot of issues that I've been dealing with and opened up to her. I said I know she loves OM and she may never love me the same way, but I said I think she could still love me. She asked if I would throw all her stuff out like last time if she went back. I said I didn't know. I said I would be angry and at least she would know I care. She said she didn't want the girls to go through this again. She says the youngest was beginning to come around but she doesn't think our oldest will. Then she said the oldest will be here only for another year or so anyway. I said and maybe I shouldn't have, but I told her about this book on divorce I started reading and the effect it has on us. I said we both grew up in families with divorce and look where we are at. I said I believed in our marriage and we could work through this. I also found this quote on Cerri's site about marriage isn't about making you happy. You have to do that on your own, but marriage was about committment, security and support... I am not sure where this will take us, but I'm scared, but yet ok....

I think you need to tell her how it would make you feel if she left again. Use feeling statements. "I feel _________ when I think about you leaving again."

Validate her feelings. "I understand that you feel ___________________. Is this correct?" When she agrees say, "I understand your feelings."

Now, I want you to suggest a trial period for her. She may be wavering in a "forever" at home or "forever" w/o talking to OM. Suggest a shorter period of time.

"How would you feel about staying home and trying this for 2 months and see where we are then?"

Do as you would with any addict. Take it in small steps, a day at a time if you must. She will probably be more open to agreeing to determined amounts of time than she will "forever".

She IS going to go through withdrawal from OM. When she starts thinking about it or getting down, you should suggest activities to help take her mind off of it. A movie, for instance. A family dinner out, perhaps. These outtings should not include any relationship or marriage talk. Nothing that feels like pressure. It is during these times that she is the most vulnerable to restarting the affair.

JMHO.

<small>[ December 31, 2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

Well, she packed today and she's off again. Happy New Year to Me!!!

lwh:

Well, regardless of what she does, you know what you need 2 do now - follow the PLANS.

Your sig line says you're in plan B? It's 2 soon, is ol' 2long's humble opinion. Keep working on plan A so long as you can. It's harder 2 do from afar, but it isn't impossible. And it keeps the communication lines open (and pisses off the OM!).

Take it easy. Take it slow, and definitely refrain from the LBs!

best,
-ol' 2long

Right now I'm not sure I'm in any plan. I feel pretty good right now. I don't know if I'm going through withdrawals or I'm healing or what, but I'm not hurting or angry like I've been. I feel a little more in control. I am being lazy though and I don't like that...

My goal today was to take down the Christmas tree. I didn't get that accomplished. I slept most of the day then went out and paid bills. It felt good to take it easy for a change, but I know the housework is piling up!!!

A few triggers today. Not feeling great about things right now. I guess those feelings I thought I was over were just hiding out a bit. I think I really need to be in Plan B and stay there. Kinda angry and hurt right now. I miss W terribly...

LWH, I'm thinking it would be wise to get yourself back into Plan B, too, and this time with a few more protections for you and your family. It's unfortunate your wife made this choice, but not all that surprising. You've already made clear that you're unwilling to be a part of this triangle any more. So get to Plan B, get the housework done, and get back to focusing on YOU.

I agree I need to be in plan B for me. The less I see and know about my W the better, at least that was how I felt the last time being in plan B. I've been messing up with my plan B alot lately, well, kinda messing up. I haven't actually talked with or seen WW, but I have left messages on her cell phone...

I live in Alaska and the weather has been terrible here for the last couple of weeks. My WW works from 1pm to 11pm and she has to drive about 50 miles to her work. I drive basically the same route, but I work from 7am to 4pm. Anyway, I know she keeps her cell phone off most of the time but she has voicemail. When the roads and weather are bad, I've been leaving messages on her voicemail warning her about it and telling her to leave early to get to work on time. I also tell her I worry. I haven't actually talked to her since she moved back out and I feel pretty good about that. I probably shouldn't leave messages for her, but I do worry and I don't think I'm doing harm in doing so. If any of you out there feel this is not a good idea, please let me know and let me know the reason. I know, I'm enabling her by continuously contacting her and meeting some of those needs the OM should be fulfilling. But, what if he isn't filling these needs and she sees that I care more than he does, is this wrong? I don't know...

Been feeling kinda angry lately. Almost wanting revenge or something. Is this natural this far into this thing? I figured I'd be getting used to the separation, but in reality I'm becoming very lonely and angry that I am this lonely. Maybe I'm becoming selfish myself....

Kinda angry at myself. The lonliness and frustration made me do something I should not have done. I started looking at personal ads and was thinking about posting an ad. I was in the middle of building a profile when my D came home and saw me. I was embarrassed and ashamed. I didn't finish the the profile and I feel terrible that I even tried. Not to mention that I just set a horrible example for my D.

Got to thinking about my W and my marriage vows. I promised to be faithful through good and bad. Well this is bad and I need to refocus on those vows. No matter what happens, I am still married and I did make those vows. So, no matter how angry I get, how lonely I become, no matter how justified I feel, I have to remember I made a commitment, a vow to my wife to be faithful through anything life throws my way. If I can get through the worst, I know I can have a better marriage because of it...

My life is really pretty good. I wish I could feel the way I know I am. I mean, I have 2 awesome Ds, I have a great house, 3 nice cars, a good job, some good friends and coworkers. I can do what I want, when I want, without having to ask anyone for permission. Why can't I feel really good about life? The only thing missing is my W, which in the last couple of years hasn't been there emotionally for me anyway.(I wasn't there for her either, and I guess that's why we're in the position we're in now)

So, I've got what I need and want. How do I keep from thinking of her. I stay busy, do things that need to be done, but she is in my thoughts 60 percent of the time, 30 percent is spent sleeping and she is occasionally in my dreams! So, about 10 percent of the day I stay focused enough on whatever I'm doing to not think of her. Is this natural? When we were together, I didn't have a problem with this. In fact, I rarely thought about her. Maybe that's what my problem is! My thought patterns were wrong all these years! I don't know.......

My Ds went and ate dinner at their mom's Thursday. Of course I asked how dinner was and my oldest said it was good. She said her mom made chicken fried steak. Now, for about 16 years, my W has cooked chicken fried steak maybe 10 times. Whenever we would go out and eat I often ordered chicken fried steak, so my W and Ds knew I liked it. Yet, W never made it and when she did it never really turned out good. Not to mention, my kids never really liked it. Ok, so my D tells me my W thought about sending me over a plate, then decided it wouldn't be a good idea. This is the first time, that I know of, that W has actually thought about doing something 'nice' for me. Even though she didn't follow through. I may be taking this 'waaaay' too far, but this 'little' kindness gesture has given me a teeeeny glimmer of hope!!! Am I crazy or is there something to this?

Anyway, its Saturday. I need to get going and do some house cleaning. Its a mess. I've been lazy all week. Wish I could get my kids to take on some small amount of responsibility!!! I'm still maintaining my plan B......

Been really thinking about WW alot lately. Trying not to, but still do. I've been having alot of triggers lately too. Something will make me think of her and I get all messed up inside. I took my D and her friend to a movie today. It was a romantic comedy and I ended up crying during some of the scenes. I hope my D didn't notice it. I get all choked up and lose it at times. I'm on anti Ds but that doesn't seem to help. Is this normal after this long? Sometimes I feel like I'm falling apart and others I feel fine. I'm in a good plan b, but I still think of her all the time... This sucks......

I know it hasn't been that long, but it seems like an eternity. W has come back twice but only to return to OM. She has written me a letter specifically saying she does not love me and that she loves OM. Been in plan B for awhile since she left at the end of Dec. I have not seen her or heard from her since then. I'm beginning to lose hope and looking elsewhere for companionship. I haven't actually found anyone, but am not not looking, if that makes sense. I still love my W, but the lonliness and hurt are more than I want to endure any more. I guess you could say I'm "TIRED"....

I get a call from WW the other night. It was the day after my birthday. She left a messege on the answering machine because I don't answer the phone no matter who is calling. Anyway, she says, I just wanted to wish you a late happy birthday and was wondering if you wanted to file taxes jointly or what? Nice happy birthday messege. She didn't even break the sentence up. It was all one long happy birtday taxes... What a wonderful W I have..........

Do you sense a little bitterness here? Well, if not, then you should. I am losing hope, losing respect, and losing love for my W! I am in a rut!!!

Been bindging alot lately. Gained about 10 to 12 pounds in the last month. I don't like myself right now. I feel terrible. I haven't been taking care of the house like I was and I am just not a very happy person right now.

lost-without-her,

Get medication .... get AD, it will hep you out. Also you need someone to talk to but not opposite sex, whoelse is your support system ?. Be open & honest to your 2 D might help, it is not a weakness but strength to open up dialog and teach your 2D a intimate R w/ thie father <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

You could also get my number or MSN-IM id, I am online most of the time and avail for short chat. Email me. I am on email exchange thread.

Get busy and get out of your daily routine.

-rh-