Wrote post on "IN Recovery" by mistake.
Long story short. Caught wife in EA 2 mos. ago. She broke it off then on then off then on. She now denies that EA on again but acting quite cold. She says I haven't helped her deal with this even tho she put me thru this, sometimes in my face. She moved out yesterday. I still love her dearly. I'm not perfect, but I'm not bad. What do I do?

kd, as hard as it might be, it may be best to just keep the pressure off and "let" her leave. Not putting demands on people sometimes has the opposite effect of what they thought they wanted. Besides which, if she REALLY doesn't want to be there, but feels guilted or blackmailed into staying - do you really want her there?

What you want her to do, of her own free will, is decide that you and her marriage is what she wants. I'm also dubious about the EA stuff - you probably haven't gotten to the bottom of the story yet......That seems to be the way it goes for all of us.

When WS's and OP are suddenly faced with the reality that they can openly have each other, the shine somehow dulls really quickly - it's as if there was a longing for what they couldn't have, but when it's there for the taking, it suddenly doesn't look so great in the cold hard light of day. In fact, it looks pathetic.

Do you know the OM? Is he married etc? If he is, and now your wife says "look we're busted, there's no need to hide it any more" - and he doesn't want to leave his wife - well she's going to get dumped, isn't she?

We all know how devastated and lost you feel right now. You will be OK.

Are you sure it is not a PA? Well, in either case the path to recovery is the same: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. Your situation is harder, but your chances of saving your marriage and actually making it better than before are still good. But, whether your spouse is "on board" or not, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I do believe in the strong possibility that there was a PA. OM's wife tells me that after she moved out in Sept. he would come over to her apt. and have sex twice a week, at least. I know OM and his wife. My WW met him on May 30 and soon afterwards set it up so that when we went out with friends one night, he and his wife would coincedentally show up at the same place. They even said they had eaten at the same restaurant. He was a friend of a friend of a friend. She saw him and was like "Hey, isn't that John's friend." So we're all chummin it up like we just met a new couple to be friends with. OM and wife have been over to house, hung out together, gone out together. After she moved out, wife still friends with him. I think nothing of it because I don't think my would be so stupid. I was wrong of course. We had a pretty good relationship before she met him. Now she's got herself believing we didn't. It wasn't perfect, but whose is. I do find it hard to believe that they could have been in love for months and not have slept together, but I try not to think about it. A friend has sent us literature and another gave us a copy of SAA. I've read it twice, but she has hardly opened it. I'm tired of trying to convince her of anything. It's like dealing with a crazy person. There's no reasoning with her and she is only concerned with what's best for her, not considering me, the kids, her family, or friends that she's left in her wake. I can only pray now and try to keep my fat mouth shut. I love her dearly and know there's a good chance she'll come around to her senses sooner or later if I only can do my part. I feel so alone right now. I know a good Christian counselor who I've seen before. I'm going to start going again after the kids go back to school from holiday break. Hopefully, she'll go with me, but she has thusfar refused to talk with anybody. Her two friends who have helped us with literature and SAA have invited her to a church retreat in TX in 4 wks. She is seriously considering going, but we'll see. Any advise would be helpful and all prayers help. I know God will help me thru this and I believe He will save my marriage, but only if I trust in Him and do my part.

Yesterday, I take daughter to Wal-mart after she had been with WW at work. On way back, daughter asks if mom got new cell phone. I say not as far as I know. Daughter describes phone to me. It's his second cell phone that he gave her once before and I took from her and gave back to him. Daughter says mom sending text messages and keeping in purse. I tell myself not to confront her with it, but I did. She lies about it and says its her bosses and that's how they make long distance calls, but I tell her I know better cause daughter says no talking, just TMs and keeping in purse. Plus, she's worked there 8 years. Surely she can't think I'm stupid. Mom in Law tells me to calm down, no anger, especially in front of kids. I agree that's right thing to do but lose it with WW anyway, like I have no control. Friend tells me to read Proverbs and James in Bible. James very helpful to me. Talk to Father in Law and tell him about what I've read and he's very helpful. I think I will be able to control my temper better now. She asks if I would like to have kids on Thursday night. I say I guess cause I think she wants to be able to get with OM cause she tells me I need to let her know. Friend advises to take kids and enjoy their company. I don't want to facilitate the A, but friend says it doesn't matter, A will happen anyway. So, as nice as I can, I tell her I would love to have kids on Thursday night. I'm sure sooner or later, the newness of A will wear off. She's good woman and Christian. I know all this will get to her conscience some day. Friends have registered and payed for her church retreat in 4 wks. I will be kind and helpful and I beleive she will go. I pray for strenghth, patience, and intervention every hour of every day. I know God will touch her heart. Pray for us.

Take this as a slap in the face. Get control of your anger!!!!! I know this hurts!! Show your pain. Show your fear. Show your frustration. But, control your anger. Yes, you will be angry. But, treat her with respect, anyway.

The most important part of Plan A is avoiding lovebusters, including angry outbursts. Remember what 1 Peter 3:7 says: Treat your wife as the weaker vessel. That means she is more susceptible to being hurt emotionally than you are. You need to treat her much more gently than you need to be treated. In order for her to be close to you, you need to create a safe environment for her to be honest in.

If she is REALLY a Christian, you are right, the Holy Spirit will eventually convict her, and she will repent. Eventually. It took my wife THREE YEARS, though.

Two days now and no LBs. Been prayn alot and readn Bible. I got a grip on myself and saw her today and was calm and kind, even tho she was cold. She is upset about the name calling and yelling. But I now know that it does no good and only makes it worse. I only wind up regretting it. I TMd her an apology for all said and done. Sent her some very kind TMs today. No response to them, but I know she got them and read them. This all seems so unfair, but I've got my own demons to deal with and I know I have to take it one day at a time. I know she will see him tonite while I have the kids. Tryn not to let it bother me. I know she's seein him anyway, but still lyin about it, even tho she's moved out. What can I do about it, anyway, but to be kind and patient and wait for it to die naturally, hopefully.

kd, all you needed to do was ask to see the TM's. I would have said something along the lines of "Well show me the text messages and how wrong I am, and then I can apologise for accusing you of something that's not true".

Anybody who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.

Or, next time check them yourself first without asking. Hopefully, you'll be wrong, and I know that's what you're hoping for.

I would check them myself when i had the chance, but she got back into the habit of emptying her folders. This is something she didn't do when we got along for a couple of weeks. She was also very defensive about her cell phone.Wouldn't turn it on when I was around. The phone she is using to talk to him now is his phone, which she denies having, even tho daughter's the one who saw it and described it to a T. She moved out, anyhow.I send her TMs; several a day telling her how I won't quit on her and kids, how I love her and cherish our family, how beautiful she is. Its all true and I wont give up. Talked to her yesterday and got upset and teary. She's left me out of almost aspects of her life. I feel left out and lonely and I tell her. Nothing hurtful or destructive, just how I feel. I dont want her to feel good about what she's doing to us and kids.Tms and letters work better because I dont get emotional in front of her and my thoughts are conveyed better.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She saw him and was like "Hey, isn't that John's friend." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hear you ... my H and OW did same thing. However, he told me of A before we got together as "couple friends."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Anybody who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yup.

Hang in there, kdjohn. You're doing the right thing by staying calm, loving. It's very difficult to do, I know, but you have to do it! Keep praying. When you think no one else is there for you, God will be!

Had a few good days. I believe Paxil is starting to work. Went to WW's house last night with some dinner for us all. Kids ate but I lost my appetite after I got there. I helped her put together a bed for the children then went outside to talk with WW. I told her how upset and hurt and lonely I was. It was hard for me to be there and see that she was creating this new life for herself. I try to appeal to some sense of Godliness in her. I asked her if her conscience ever bothered her about what has transpired over the last few months. I tried to get her to put herself in my shoes with a scenario of me cheating on her and leaving home and faced with the possibility of some homewrecker raising her children half of the time. She was silent for much of what I had to say. I think she started to get a little teary. She is still lying about still talking to OM. She lies to our kids too. My son told me that he told WW that he wanted and prayed for us all to be a happy family again and that she cried a little. I'm sure this whole thing is bothering her and that there is hope that she will turn around soon. But, I'll keep praying in the meantime. I will see a MC on Tuesday and I'll ask her to go. We'll see. I will never stop telling her that I love her and miss her. I won't stop emphasizing the importance of both of us raising our kids together in a Godly and restored family setting. It may or may not work. I won't yell or fight with her, but I will keep trying to get my point across. It's all I know to do now. Keep praying for us. She goes on spiritual retreat in 3 weeks. Pray that God will touch her heart and open her eyes.