Found out about six weeks ago that wife is probably cheating on me at present, not an "affair" the present one is probably just sexual. Bad part is that I know for certain she had an "affair" about four years ago. Worst part is that I did not want to believe this info until it brought back an obviously repressed memory from over 13 years ago. She contracted an STD that caused her gynocology problems. Told me very matter of factly what she had, that I needed to be checked. I am now sure her ob/gyn told her she had to tell me. I was very naive about STDs and trusting when she said it could be contracted other ways. She must have been dying inside as she told me and totally relieved that I was so stupid. Perhaps God made me that dumb for that moment because had it hit me I probably would have walked and our kids were little at the time (now both in college).
Rambling a bit but I confided in my doc just before Christmas (urologist) who said I was protected during exposure to the STD due to the antibiotics I was on long term back then. Also went to see a family counselor thinking I may want to try to work this out. Now I am leaning the other way. Found out she has said hateful things about me and lies about me. I don't think I know this woman. She appears to have two worlds, one with our very large circle of friends, family, and another circle of friends where she cheats on me. This will devastate her and I think she will deny it. I don't want to destroy her prominent community reputation but if she throws this back on me I must protect my own reputation.
I never cheated on her, never came close, always avoided the situations. Many opportunities to do so and our sex life has been infrequent and boring for a long time (now I know why) but it was a matter of honor for me.
Had to get through Christmas and many social gatherings, pretty tough and sad for me inside thinking this might be the last one as a family.

I don't know what the hell to do, this will devastate our kids, I am going to try to wait to confront until May for financial reasons and the kids. They will be out of school for the summer and have time to adjust. The older one will be off to graduate school and financing that with loans (for sure now I won't be able to help) The stress is bothering me, my health is excellent and I am physically in good shape, I work out but I know my blood pressure is up at times. Just getting this off my chest at the moment any comments welcome.

Found out about six weeks ago that wife is probably cheating on me at present, not an "affair" the present one is probably just sexual.
That's not an affair? If it was a one night stand, I think you could say it was not an affair but if they are seeing each other at all, then it's an affair.

I don't want to destroy her prominent community reputation
You have nothing to destroy, she is the one who has already done that. I'm not saying you should tell everyone (at least not yet) but the fallout will be because of her.

this will devastate our kids,
What will? You aren't going to tell them "just because" right?

What if your wife were to immediately end the affair and do everything possible to repair the marriage?

I am going to try to wait to confront until May for financial reasons and the kids.
Why? See above statement. You have no idea if it will have any affect on the finances or the kids.

They will be out of school for the summer and have time to adjust.
Bad idea (to wait for that reason). No school activities to help keep their mind occupied with other than mom & dad's situation. Also, the longer it goes on, the more difficult it will be to work through it (whether it's divorce or reconciliation).

The older one will be off to graduate school and financing that with loans (for sure now I won't be able to help)
Why not?

any comments welcome.
Get & read "Surviving An Affair" by Dr Willard Harley.
Read up the links below.
Get

Bill: As a long time conflict avoider, I think I recongnize you as one. If so (or even if not), I have some good news: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. Your situation is harder, but your chances of saving your marriage and actually making it better than before are still good. But, whether your spouse is "on board" or not, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One more thing: As a conflict avoider, you avoid intimacy, too. As Gary Smalley says: "Conflict is the doorway to intimacy." As I like to say: "Learning to do conflict constructively, not destructively, is the key to opening the door." If I am right about this, you will need to learn a few new skills. It can be done. If I can, you can.

If you want to learn more about my story, part of it is in the following link, starting on page 7, in the section titled in blue: After the Affair: a perspective on the road to recovery

<small>[ January 06, 2004, 07:48 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

I really appreciate your thoughts, I do have an MC who seems very good, she listens more than instructs. Only one session so far, going back next week, probably broke down and cried four times during the hour and a half. In my heart of hearts I am a softy but rarely show that kind of emotion except at funerals of those close to me. Maybe this is kind of a funeral. The financial reason for waiting is that I am willing to work on this if she is honest and remorseful when I confront her (hopefully at the MC's office) but I think she will deny everything, say I am crazy and storm out of the office. She is very successful in her field but has trouble saying she is sorry for even minor things. Our combined income allows us to pay for college but if we separate prior to divorce we (I) will have trouble paying off the balance.
I understand what you are saying about conflict avoidance, I may tend to be that way somewhat, but we have had plenty of arguments about other matters over the years and settled without bitterness or acrimony. On the intimacy matter that may be somewhat true but brings back another memory that would coincide with the time she contracted the STD. I was under exteme pressure at work, on the road a lot and poured my heart out to her. As I recall she did not seem to be interested and that really made me angry. I said something about needing her support and she just started crying. Now I think she was feeling guilty (or maybe just fearful she would be discovered). It's funny how you recall things but I have going over incidents in our marriage over the past years and many times I tried to discuss problems with our sex life and intimacy and she usually avoided the discussion. Now I think I know why. She could have the "happily married" social life and still have the excitement of the affairs. I am not perfect by any means but tried to talk with her over the years. I have read one book my MC gave me "Infidelity, a survivors guide" which helps some but also stresses me out. Rambling again but it helps to pour this out.
The first couple of weeks after D-day (I guess that is for discovery day) I was more hurt and sad but now I am just getting pi#@ed off. If it was just an old affair that I just discovered or a recent one I could handle it better, but I truly think she has done this many times for years.
Also I go to church every Sunday and this is part of our social life that will be destroyed. One thing I am not is "depressed" I have my own plan A but plan B (divorce) is also being prepared if this blows up. This is awful, I was actually contemplating getting into counseling before D-day, that would have been a real fraud! I truly wanted to grow old, have grand kids, etc with her but things can never be the same no matter what happens.

Harley's Plan B is not divorce, if that is not clear.

Unfortunately my plan B is divorce. I am still young enough to have a life again should we split. Hopefully I would be lucky and meet someone else to find some peace and happiness. I am still willing to try to work on this if she accepts responsibility and shows some remorse when confronted but if not I am preparing myself to get on with life.
If she denies everything and lies when confronted what else am I to do?

I do have an MC who seems very good, she listens more than instructs.
A good marriage counselor will instruct you on what you NEED to do to save your marriage.
Simply spilling your guts is a good way to release tension and all but it will do nothing for your marriage.
Besides, we can listen here and it won't cost you anything. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

If she denies everything and lies when confronted what else am I to do?
You should do read “Surviving An Affair” by Dr Willard Harley.
You should read the links below.
You should read up on Plan A, ask questions here & implement it NOW.
I HIGHLY recommend you give Marriage Builders a call (see below) and set up an appointment.

<small>[ January 07, 2004, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

bill,
no one can deny your right to dissapointment and anger...especially in light of the fact that her current escapde is not a one time occurance but here's the thing...what did you do about it last time...when she had her affair?

we all know that it's insanity to continue doing the same things and expecting something to change! and i understand the need a person in your situation may feel, to just get past the uglyness and go forward but my friend that is not the way. what did you do about her last affair? what did you do to address that problem?

look, you have time and a life and the lives of children, invested in this marriage. could it be that now is the time to roll up your sleaves and do the hard, emotionally draining and painful work it takes to get to the bottom of these kinds of problems? wouldn't it be worth it, don't you think, to make the realtionship grow and work?

one last thought. you describe your wife as being some one who can't admitt her wrongs, mistakes or faults, (i've emellished on your statement, so please forgive the poetic license. could it be then that it falls to you to be the adult here and to find a way to show her why she is making terrible life decisions and exhibiting such self distructive behavior?

complain if you will...and by all means vent! you deserve that but then step back and look at the situation with less emotion and more objectivity. one does not toss something off value away simply because one has a problem with it...not with out trying to salvage the situation at least.

in any case, be assured of my good will and support. i wish you only well.

coach

Go with the comments about stepping back and looking objectively. I wrote the whole thing down and it distanced me from it, gave me the eyes to see as if it was happening to someone else - then I could see clearly and act on it.

I may not have made myself clear, until six weeks ago I thought she had always been faithful. I did not know about the affair from four years ago when it was going on. Found out about the recent one and that one at the same time. The STD incident confirms that she has been doing this a long time. I have also gone back over other things that made me think over the years but discounted BECAUSE I TRUSTED HER.

One more thing: as far as I can tell, there is not such thing as "just sex". Those are just words someone uses when they do not want to admit, either to themselves or others, what they are really doing.

I may not have made myself clear, until six weeks ago I thought she had always been faithful.
Our advice is no different.

Don't take offense at this but in some of the replies I detect folks who want to feel like "martyrs". I will not be a martyr. I still have some feelings for her but if she reacts to the confrontation (I will decide the time and place, a third party will be present) with denials and more lies I really think it is over. I am a Christian and have a strong faith in God, and also have a strong sense of honor. When you take vows, make a pledge or a promise you damn well better honor that. If you don't want to honor it then have the b#@@s to exit the commitment and move on. This is what has kept me straight all these years. I don't pretend to look like Robert Redford in his prime but I am in excellent physical condition and look much younger than my age. The point is I have had many opportunities to "cheat" but never did because I loved and honored my wife. She obviously had no such value system. As for the "just sex" comment, in some ways it would be easier to accept if she had some emotional attachment to someone that I failed to provide but it seems more and more to have just been "recreational". I have no idea how many men she has been with and try not to think about it.
Sorry if I sound harsh in my judgement but I did not deal this hand, she did.

I detect folks who want to feel like "martyrs".
No one wants to feel like a martyr. But marriage is serious and “When you take vows, make a pledge or a promise you damn well better honor that“ and that is all we are trying to do.
We are simply trying to explain that you should “cool off” a bit before you make a life altering decision to end a marriage while still trying to figure out what/why/how it happened.

Of course you are free to do as you wish, but in order to help in any future relationships, you should learn and understand what happened.
Simply “she had an affair” is probably not what happened.

I will not be a martyr.
No one expects you to be one.

I still have some feelings for her but if she reacts to the confrontation (I will decide the time and place, a third party will be present) with denials and more lies I really think it is over.
She will probably deny.

Found out about six weeks ago that wife is probably cheating on me at present, not an "affair" the present one is probably just sexual.
So you’re not even sure if she is having an affair and if she denies it, you’ll divorce her?

Sorry if I sound harsh in my judgement but I did not deal this hand, she did.
Hey, I understand your thoughts. And you are correct, you didn’t deal the hand but your in the game and it’s your hand to play.

(To use your card analogy) The idea behind this site is to play the hand all the way out and not fold because you got “bluffed out”. (I’m not suggesting she isn’t having an affair, but you need to understand exactly what is and why it happened.

Then you can honestly say to yourself that you “have a strong sense of honor. When you take vows, make a pledge or a promise you damn well better honor that“.

Bill: I have been where you are. I told myself the same things about honor, etc. But, it was obvious to me that there were some things I did not understand. I wanted to find out what they were, so that I would not find myself in the same situation with a new wife 10 years down the road. Because, according to the statistics, I had a better than 75% chance to find myself in exactly that position. So, I started on a journey in search of understanding, and if I had dumped my wife (and believe me, I thought long and hard about doing that), I would never have gotten all the information I needed to really understand what happened. Harley's books helped. "Torn Asunder" helped. The MC helped. discussions with my wife helped. Before the revelation of my wife's affair, and for many years before the affair, my marriage was pretty miserable from my perspective. I would never have stayed with her if by staying married we had to go back to the way things were. I learned about what I had done wrong or omitted doing right, and what she had done wrong or omitted doing right - and I needed her help to discover that. But, I have learned that my misery had a lot more to do with the way I behaved than I had ever imagined. If I had decided to get divorced after all, at least I would have the knowledge gained from the exercise of trying to fix things, and really learning to listen to her. I recommend that path to you, too. You can always divorce her, if things do not change. But give her (and yourself) time. It took years for her to develop the habits that led to this point. It willnot be changed in an instant.

As for being a martyr - I agree, don't be. But, at this point, there are no painless exits. Make sure the pain you experience is educational.

Chris, not sure you read my first post entirely. Does not really matter if am sure she is having an affair right now, I know to an absolute certainty she was having sex with someone else several years ago and when she contracted the STD 13 years ago. She did not get it from me and there is NO WAY of contracting this STD except through sex. Did not know that at the time obviously, no internet then and I did not research it, I trusted her when she told me it could come from other things. I do know she offered herself sexually to someone recently, just not 100% sure he took her up on it.

I really don't know what I will eventually do but will be prepared to "pull the trigger" with a divorce.

Update, don't know where these dates come from, I last posted about seven months ago, not three weeks. Confronted her, lies, more lies, a self serving admission, more lies, ....I confronted the other guy, he (not the sharpest tool in the shed) told me everything and more, confronted her with this, another admission, but also another lie, can't deal with this. Can't try to work this out and find myself in the same boat three years down the road. Offered to try to work it out but she would have to be completely truthful, and she refuses. Filed for divorce, moving on with life. It really sucks but how can you live with someone who you trusted completely and lies to you, nowhere to start.

Bill
sorry to hear this news.
I can understand your anger as I only found out 3 months ago.
But I know that it is very normal for the cheating spouse to deny many things or not to say anything, thats hard. I am finding the same thing.
You just dont know what you are facing & it does seem to get worse the more you find out.
Well I hope you can come to whatever you need to be as best you can with your family.

Bill, you certainly have the Scriptural "right" to a divorce. But God hates divorce, nonetheless. It should be the "last" choice, not the "first" choice, if at all possible.

I understand your pain and anger having been in a similar position, so the first question I would have for your is regarding your wife's faith.

Is your wife a Christian? I know you have stated that you are, but what about her?

Before I invest anymore time in this I need to know if you are a "Christian couple" or and "unevenly yoked" couple. It will have a direct bearing on the advice and comments.

Know that I know the pain you are keeping within, attempting to present a "calm and controlled" visage to those around you. Anger over sin is okay. Even Jesus was angry with the sin being committed in the temple. And the admonition He has given us appears to be one that you are attempting to embrace as well, "Be angry, but in your anger do not also sin."

So before we go futher, I await your answer to my question, so that I will have some direction in how to respond.

God bless.

I appreciate the comments, obviously I was venting in my last post, but I do not understand how I can try to reconcile when she will not be completely honest with me. I have read several books on the subject over the past months, and it seems universal that for the marriage to have any chance of long term survivial the betrayed spouse has the right to ask any questions and have an honest answer. To illustrate my case, I know she tried to arrange to meet the guy when they were both on business about three weeks before I confronted her with the past affairs. It did not work out for them but they were definitely going to have sex if it had. She at first denied it completely, and as I trickled out what I knew she said they were just going to meet for drinks along with a lot of other people. I know this is complete bs, and she continues to lie. How can you move on to any other issues in the marriage until the air is cleared on this one? Can some here just accept the lies and go back into a "trusting" relationship? For the life of me I don't understand how you can. To my way of thinking, someone who states they are "sorry" for what they did but won't admit what they are sorry for are just sorry they got caught and will do it to you again. I have offered several times to go back into counseling but with the premise that she must break down with complete honesty before we can even think talking about other issues.

As far as the Christian issue, oh yes, she is a "good" Christian. She is very involved in our parish, a eucharistic minister, lector, in volunteer groups, etc.