I just found out about my husband of 4 months' affair 5 days ago. I have been suspicious of him keeping something from me for a few months now. I have been checking his website history every day and I finally found something - a lot of porn sites and an email address. I hacked into the email and found lots of emails dating back 2 months to his coworker. They were explicit and unbelievable - they detailed how he kissed her on our wedding day and how he wrote his wedding speach to me while thinking of her!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I confronted him and told him to move out. He admitted that the affair has been going on for 6 months - that's 2 months before our wedding!

Now I feel as if everything has been a farse. Our wedding day was a ruse and I feel as if we never had a marriage (not one that had a chance, anyway). How can I ever look back at our wedding day and our wedding pictures and video and not think that he didn't want to be there and knowing that he was thinking of her?

How do I get over this - I don't even know if counselling would be worth it - how do I know if there is anything worth salvaging? Right now I feel as if I will never trust him ever again and I will always question what he is doing and will this come up every time we have a fight? Will I always hold this against him? Or do I just give up and get a divorce? What are the chances of us reconcilling a marriage that probably never should have happened and never had a chance.

Please help!

We can't tell you whether to stay married to your H or not, BUT you'd be wise to give yourself some time (a few months) to wait until you gain more control of your emotions. The last thing you want is to make irreversible, life altering decisions solely based on your emotions. IF during this time, your H ends his affair and wants to reconcile with you (and you with him) then the two of you can begin the process of marital recovery using Dr Willard Harley's principles embodied in The Four Rules For A Succesful Marriage. from his books 'Surviving An Affair', 'His Needs Her Needs' and 'Love Busters'. If your marriage is to be saved, your H's affair must end first. What can you do to improve the chances of him ending his affair? Follow Dr Harley's approach found in his article titled What Are Plan A And Plan B. But keep in mind that even with the most flawless execution of Plan A/Plan B, there is NO guarantee that you can save your marriage. So what's the point in trying the Plan A/Plan B approach? For one, you own up to your side of the responsibility for the bad state of the marriage (BOTH of you are responsible for it, even though he is solely responsible for chosing to have an affair) by overcoming Love Busters (Dr Harley's term for destructive habits that destroy romantic love) and exposing the affair to the OW(other woman's) H(husband). Once he ends his affair through a NC(no contact) letter to the OW (witnessed by you), then you can proceed to meet his most important Emotional Needs so that he no more 'reasons' to go outside the marriage to get them fulfilled. The point of Plan A is to make yourself an attractive alternative by avoiding the behaviors that will further push him into the arms of the OW. But when Plan A doesn't work because he refuses to end his affair or is showing signs that he wants to have his cake and eat it to, then you can proceed to Plan B in which you separate from him by writing him a love letter explaining that you love him very much, want the marriage to be a happy one for both of you, but that his continued contact with the OW is too painful for you and that you must respectfully ask him not to make any contact with you until he ends his affair and wants to reconcile with you. For further clarification, you might want to read the article What Are Plan A And Plan B. Even in the worse case scenario (he never comes back to you and you file for divorce), you will come out a better person for having followed Plan A/Plan B, and you will able to leave your old emotional baggage behind so it doesn't sabotage any future relationship. Of course, the decision to follow the MB marital recovery approach is ultimately yours to make.

<small>[ January 08, 2004, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

I have been reading as many articles from this website as I can and I have asked WS to do the same. I would like to start Plan A (or Plan B if needed) but I don't understand just how long I am supposed to wait for him to leave the OW. Is it not self-destructive to myself to sit around and wait for him to decide what he wants - me or her? I will not sit around forever or even for a few months - if he isn't showing now that he is remorseful and shows that he wants to end it with her and try with us, why should I wait for him and then be expected to welcome him back with open arms when he either decides to come back to me or she decides that she doesn't really want him and he comes back to me as a second choice?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Hopeless?:
Is it not self-destructive to myself to sit around and wait for him to decide what he wants -me or her? I will not sit around forever or even for a few months - if he isn't showing now that he is remorseful and shows that he wants to end it with her and try with us, why should I wait for him and then be expected to welcome him back with open arms when he either decides to come back to me or she decides that she doesn't really want him and he comes back to me as a second choice?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There's an old MB question 'Do you want to be right or do you want to be married?' which you may want to answer in order to help you decide what you want.

It is normal to feel resentment and to view oneself as consolation prize once the WS(wayward spouse) gets dumped and expresses a desire to come back BUT the BS(betrayed spouse) SHOULD NOT accept the WS back unless the WS is in total agreement with the BS on implementing a marital recovery plan. Many BS's make the mistake of taking the WS back without an agreement which leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B. So you see, Plan A/Plan B in no way tells you that you have to be a doormat who should take the WS back unconditionally.

Maybe your marriage is unsalvageable, but don't you think that it's better to remove all doubts before you proceed with divorce? The last thing you want is to be haunted with doubts after the divorce as to whether you could have saved your marriage IF you'd only followed Plan A/Plan B. But as I said before, it is ultimately up to you to decide whether you have it in you to chose this path of marital recovery or simply give up and file for divorce.

Hopeless-

Like CoffeeMan said, the decision to stay in your M is up to you.

I know the feeling of a M that never was. If I may explain... One month into our M my W started her A. I learned about it, did Plan A and then went into Plan B. 9 months into our M, after being in Plan B for some time, my W ended the A and contacted me about recovery. It is now 10 months since then, we are still struggling, but I think we are going to make it.

I know your feelings as I have been there myself. You have nothing to lose by trying and everything to lose by walking away.

Hopeless,

You are NOT Hopeless, and neither is your life. IF your H is still in the A, then you need to make a decision. Stay and fight or go. Frankly, with a marriage so young, going is a pretty good option. HOWEVER, if there is something within you that causes you to hesitate, THEN stay and fight for awhile.

STart with plan A, although you have not had time to NOT meet his needs, you need to expose the A if it is still going. You need to offer him a chance, and you need to meet his needs as he lets you. YOu also decide on a decision point. Do a good Plan A up until that time, if nothing seems to be changing, then go to plan B. Plan B allows you wait longer without the love bank draining as fast but it will drain. At some point the A will be over and you two will have a chance to rebuild or in your case build a marriage, OR you will decide you have done your best and YOU will move on.

If you do the plans that something within you will know you have done your best and you will NEVER regret the leaving. So first search your heart and decide marriage or no marriage. If it is marriage many here will guide you. If it is no marriage, keep posting especially in the divorce section and many will help you deal with that decision as well.

You have a tough job as did STTSI, but it can be done.

God Bless,

JL

Hopeless, you are not hopeless by any measure, you sound very young to me, if he was unfaithful (what a way to say SCR#$%ng around on you) BEFORE YOU WERE MARRIED, why are you even here, move on to a better life, he is a leech. Again I am sounding harsh and admittedly very PI@#$$D OFF, but I am in my 50's and may divorce my wife of many years as she has been unfaithful to me for at least half our marriage as I recently discovered. You have no worries like children, extended family, etc. You are also getting some "canned" responses here, in other words they are just cutting and pasting standard answers that may or may not apply to your tragic, yet short term problem. Good luck.

First I'd say that you must have the patience of a saint to be even considering staying with this man. You H needs to explain why he went ahead with the wedding when he'd started seeing someone else if you can ask that in a calm way - not easy I should think.

He also needs to declare the extent and nature of his use of porn and you need to decide how you feel about that aspect too.

Can the M be saved? It's possible, but ONLY if he agrees to (a) end the A permanently and have no further contact of any sort with this OW and that means for the rest of his life and (b) to commit to working on his relationship with you. And that doesn't just mean promising to start again, it means getting professional help.

Without both (a) AND (b) the M doesn't stand a chance. Even with (a) and (b) it would be very very tough. Personally in your shoes I'd say it was over, but I'm not you.

Thank you all for your advice and support. I know that I am in a tough position. I do not know why he didn't cancel the wedding, other than perhaps he felt it was too late or that he thought that the wedding stress was the problem, not our relationship. Maybe he thought that once the wedding was over, everything would be OK. Maybe he did want to get married. I have no idea, and I don't think he knows either.

I know that I have contributed many LB over the last year or so, including a lack of sex (which might account for a few things). Not that I am justifying or excusing his behaviour - not by a long shot!

I am only 31 and I know that I would be able to pick up the pieces of my life and move on, but I thought that we were made to be with each other. At least that's what I thought when we first got together. But eventhough we are only newly married, I have 5 years with him and another 7 before that as friends. It is my emotions and my love for him that keeps me in this (for now anyway). My love for him cannot fade overnight, eventhough he has given me almost a year of LBing. I guess my love bank is deeper than I thought! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

He claims that he wants to work this out, but his actions aren't following. He says that the A is over, but he still sees her at work. He says that he is trying to find another job, but meanwhile...

I keep changing my mind as to what I want/what to do. One minute I want to work this out and the next minute I just want a divorce. I know that only time and counselling and a committment to Plan A will help me now.

The sad thing is, this is not the first time that this has happened to me. All my past boyfriends have cheated on me. Which gives me no self-esteem and makes me wonder what I am doing wrong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> And I promised myself that an A would be a deal-breaker in any future relationships. But I also know that what one thinks they will do and what one may do when it actually happens are not always the same.

On another note -

What do I do about the living arrangements? I kicked him out and I am staying at the apartment while he went back to his parents.

I know that Plan A suggests continuing to live together, but at this point, the idea of him sleeping in my bed is unthinkable! On the other hand, I miss him and my imagination runs wild when I don't know where he is (not that when I did know where he was stopped him from having the A! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Is there anything wrong with living apart until I decide what I plan on doing with this relationship (ie divorce or reconcile)?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> All my past boyfriends have cheated on me. Which gives me no self-esteem and makes me wonder what I am doing wrong. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good question. When it happens once, you may have nothing to do with it. When it happens consistently, you have to get an answer to that question - even if the answer turns out to be "nothing". Actually, finding the answer to that questions may be enough of a reason to stay married, at least for now - if he is willing to help you find out. Read "Survivng an Affair", by Harley, together, and "Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders". If they don't answer the question (and I expect they will provide a partial answer, but not the whole thing), read "The State of Affairs", by Mulliken, and "Torn Asunder", by Carder. It is expecially important that you do the exercises in SAA and TA.

I know! I really need to read these books! I have ordered SAA and TA and am anxiously awaiting their delivery.

And it seems the longer this whole matter remains unresolved and up-in-the-air (eventhough it's only been 1 1/2 weeks), the easier it will be for me to throw in the towel and ask for a divorce.

Hopeless,

I thought Bill's advice to you was interesting and in fact very common. It is common for a reason, it cuts loses and it is what you should do IF you decide to get out of the marriage. It is your call. This is a MarriageBuilder's site, but it is NOT Marriage AT ALL COSTS.

However, you mentioned several things that struck me. You said that you have been LB'ing him for about a year and that has been coupled with a lack of sex. You two have been together for many years. It seems if I am guessing right that his A is less than a year old. So perhaps your LB's and lack of interest in him sexually is something you need to consider.

You also mentioned that you had other relationships end because of an A by your partner. Do you see a pattern of behavior on your part that might explain this? Do you see a pattern in the type of men you are attracted to? This is a very good time for you to do a little self-analysis.

So think carefully about what you want. If you are undecided, then try to rebuild. Start slowly but the requirements of OW being out of the picture are really NOT negotiable if you are to have a chance and he is to move back home. You can plan A with him out of the house, it is harder but it is not impossible.

I wish you the best and God Bless,

JL

I know that I have many of my own issues to work out - LBs and sex just some of them. But it is not all one sided. I never had much of a sex drive. But does this give him permission to go outside of the marriage to get it?? I do not think so. It should be something that he should be supportive of and try to figure out what's wrong TOGETHER.

And there have been many LBs coming from his side as well. Not that I am not taking my share of the blame for the problems in our relationship - but I did not turn away and have an A.

Hopeless,

Don't worry, we KNOW that the A was all his. He made the decisions and he gets to deal with that. I was focusing on your LB's and such because you are here and you can address them. You cannot address his failings anymore than we can. You can only change you. I think you addressing whatever your issues are is a good thing for your future whether it is with your H or someone else in your life.

This painful experience should be useful for something and the only way it can is if YOU learn something from it. So the idea is to learn and grow from this so that the pain won't be completely in vain.

God Bless,

JL

I am having another dilemma. Should I be informing the OWH of the A? I am afraid of the consequences (he seems like a jerk), but I think that it would help get her out of the job, because my spouse doesn't seem to be going anywhere quickly. I have read both sides on this site, and the prevailing view seems to be "yes". But I don't really see the point, other than ending her M too, like mine is. Not that I care about her, but I don't want to make it easier for my WS to run into her arms, which is what I think will happen if her M ends.

He is also not returning my phone calls or replying to me emails. I have sent him this website and my postings. Do I take this as a bad sign that he doesn't want to reconcile? He is also not picking up his stuff from our apartment. What is going on? It appears to me as if the A is still continuing (fog). If that is the case, I just want a divorce as quickly as possible. I am unwilling to wait until he makes a decision.

Well, I just spoke to my WS. Now he thinks we should spend some time apart. It seems now that he is having second thoughts about getting back together. He said he needs time to think about what he wants. I am taking this to mean that he doesn't think he wants to bother trying to work this out.

So I guess that's it then.

Should I be informing the OWH of the A?
Absolutely!

I am afraid of the consequences
The consequences right now are your husband is sleeping with her. What can be worse than that?

I have read both sides on this site, and the prevailing view seems to be "yes". But I don't really see the point, other than ending her M too, like mine is.
Yours is going thru a rough time to be sure, but is it ending? Probably not. And if it does, probably not yet.

Not that I care about her, but I don't want to make it easier for my WS to run into her arms, which is what I think will happen if her M ends.
Again, just because he finds out does not mean her marriage will end, they will run into each others arms, etc.

He is also not returning my phone calls or replying to me emails
Normal at this stage

I have sent him this website and my postings. Do I take this as a bad sign that he doesn't want to reconcile?
No. You take it as a sign that you should not be trying to educate him on how to save the marriage.
You need to learn this stuff before you do anything else.

It appears to me as if the A is still continuing (fog). If that is the case, I just want a divorce as quickly as possible. I am unwilling to wait until he makes a decision.
It’s all up to you. Just because he makes a decision one way or the other does not mean you have to agree with it.

Well, I just spoke to my WS. Now he thinks we should spend some time apart. It seems now that he is having second thoughts about getting back together.
This is “normal” on the part of a ws.

I am taking this to mean that he doesn't think he wants to bother trying to work this out.
Why are you taking it this way?

So I guess that's it then.
Why?

You only found out a few days ago. It’s all still fresh to you. It hurts, it’s confusing, you don’t understand why this happened to you.
I recommend before you make any big decisions (it’s over, divorce, he’s never coming home, I don’t want him back etc.), you read the links below. Read SAA.

I think that Chris has given you some great advice. Take some deep breaths, read those books you ordered, and put off any major decisions for a couple months, at least.

And tell her H. Most marriages do not end when an a is revealed. Theirs may. Yours may. Would you rather still be in the dark? If so, you are unusual (I've read maybe 2 posts out of thousands where a BS has said they would rather have not known.) If you are like most people, you would prefer knowing to not knowing. So would he, most likely.

Beyond that, exposure is the death knell for the majority of affairs. Not all. Most.
I think you should confront the OW, too, if you have not already: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A word about confronting the OP, when a WS is unwilling to end an affair on their own, because this question comes up a lot: Yes, confront the OP, and also inform the OP’s spouse or girlfriend or boyfriend of what you know, if they have one. If the OP’s spouse/friend is likely to be violent, you may want to hold off on that exposure, but that is the only exception I know of, other than a message from God.

The confrontation of the OP is fairly important, and should be worded carefully. Given the emotional state you are probably in right after you learn of an affair, that usually means doing it by letter or email, or maybe a phone call. I do not recommend direct confrontations because of the strong temptation you may have to become physically violent.

In the letter, say something like: “I love [spouse], and am trying to fix what is wrong with our marriage. I believe your relationship with [spouse] is interfering with our efforts to fix our marriage, and I would appreciate it if you would cease all contact with [spouse].” If you are CERTAIN it is a physical affair, you can use the word “affair”, instead of “relationship”. If you have children, you may also say that the OP is contributing to the destruction of a family.

They may laugh at you, but it is important to send that message, respectfully, for several reasons:

1. Because the OP may not know the WS is married. If that is the case, confronting the OP sometimes leads immediately to the end of the affair.
2. Because WS’s usually (almost always?) depict their spouse in a negative way to the OP. They say things like: “My wife doesn’t understand me” or “My husband won’t talk to me”, “My spouse is unconcerned about me and/or our marriage” or “We have an open relationship”, or something worse – you are crazy, controlling, cruel, etc. So, you need to confront the OP in a way that shows you at your best – not crazy, not unconcerned, not controlling, not angry, but rather calm, kind, purposeful, determined and concerned for your spouse and your relationship with them. When you do that, it introduces conflict into their relationship, because there is a conflict between what the OP experiences, and what they have been told.
3. Many WS’s and OP’s minimize the seriousness of their affairs with rationalizations like: “It’s only physical”, or, in the case of an Emotional Affair, “It’s just a close friendship” and “It’s not physical.” The language I have suggested avoids giving them a point to argue, and simply says it is hurting you.
4. In most cases, affairs grow in secret, and they die when exposed.


Remember that affairs are addictions. What happens when you try to take away an addict's fix? Frequently, they get angry. It is fairly common for a WS to get EXTREMELY angry when you expose their affair and confront the OP, and accuse you of trying to destroy them and your marriage and of being a horrible human being, so be prepared for an angry response. It is not a lovebuster, it is fighting for your marriage. You are doing nothing horrible. They are. You are fighting to save your marriage. They are destroying it. You are telling the truth. They are being deceitful. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ January 14, 2004, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>