My WW started telling me she was feeling distant. We had some good conversations and opened up a little.this was 12/15. I tried to really open up with her and showering her with real affection. She seemed that she was not responding. She would say it was sweet but nothing more. 12/27 I found a message to a cowroker that she needed to see him and theat she loved him so much. I was devistated. we are living apart now she is at home I am at temp location with my son. SHe tells me she dosnt know what to do. or what she wants. Only that she wants space. She still tells me that she loves me. She also likes to show other affection such as hugs and cuddling when we are together. Now she is still having contact with the OM. I dont know If I should back off a little or Continue to give her the attention Please Help

Start in Plan A. Read all about it here. Sorry this is happening to you, but things will get better. Keep reading and posting here.

Plan A is the way to begin, and if that does not work, then time for Plan B. Most WS's come back to marriage, so you have that on your side. The fact that she is affectionate is a plus too.

Good luck and hang in there.

Hello,

I am curious but why did you and your son leave your home? She is the one cheating on you and your marriage with the OM so it would seem logical for her to leave and allow you and your son to remain in the home with you since she claims she needs to space.

Usually it is not good to separate until you are in Plan B. As you might guess from the name, for Plan B to be effective, it should be preceded by Plan A. Read up on Plans A and B below, and think seriously about moving back in. When a spouse says that they need space, most of the time it means that they want more freedom to carry on an affair. I would not encourage you to enable her to do that easily and painlessly. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. Your situation is harder, but your chances of saving your marriage and actually making it better than before are still good. But, whether your spouse is "on board" or not, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Thank you for the replys. I have a few questions about plan A. How do I bring Up the OM when without LB. Every tome I talk about she closes Up. I know she is continuing the relationship. But she is not honest with me about it. She doesn't deny it. She just kinda avoids the questions. I think even though people know about the A she is trying to keep it a secret that she is continuing it. I need a lot of help here I am very confused. When I found Out about the affair I left for two days and had very little contact. On The first day I went home to talk to her and expressed my feelings and told her I wanted to save our marriage and work on the things hat led up to this. We were Very open with each other then it was an eye opening experience. She wanted me to move back in. She told OM that she wanted our marriage and that she wanted to give up the A.
It was very good for a couple of days. Then she started withdrawl. She tried to call him and other forms of contact. She was afraid of what was going to happen when she returned to work. Her first day back was not a good one. She decided that she did not want to go home that night. I left home instead. I wanted her In Our house with our things and picture and memories. I wanted her to relize what it is like without the family in her life. What it is like to be alone. Now It seems harder than before everyday she is at work with OM I feel it is driving her farther away. Somtimes it is enough for me to just give her anything she wants. It only last for a little while. I need some help to take some steps. I want her to attend counsling. I want her to come here and read. I do not think she will take anything I say to her to heart. I have asked about counsling. she tells me she doesn't know. How can I get her to let me back home. How do I convince her to seek help with me. She feers now If i am at home I will obsess about OM. That is true to a point. Buit she is not being honest with me. Can anyone recomend a local counsler or any information or directory.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> everyday she is at work with OM I feel it is driving her farther away. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep. Recovery cannot really start until there is no contact between them and she is through withdrawal. In the meantime, Plan A. Re-read that links above. I can't really say it any better. Learn to talk about how her actions make you feel, not what you think. Don't bring up the OM directly, unless you know she is going to see him, or just saw him, or is talking to him on the phone, or something like that. Then talk about how that makes you feel. It requires no response from her, but you have to let her know she is hurting you. Spend time with her, during that time she will not be with him.

Just Left WW We had a long talk about being honest. She was afraid to be honest with me about everything, she did not want me to flip out and go crazy. i feel now after our talk that she is being open and honest with me. She told me things that really hurt and she admitted that she was still having the A.

This seems like a good step for us I knew that she was still seeing OM and I wanted her to know that I knew. I also told her she needs to be honest with her friends, Family and other co workers. She needs to tell them that she is still continuing the A. She needs to get it out in the open and not hide it any more. She said she feels better not lying to me but I know it may only be relieving her of her guilt for now. I still think it is a good step.

I let her see the MB site. We read some things together. I believe she took something away from it. I was suprised she would look at these things with me. She has also said she will attend counsling, seperatly for know. I purchased SAA today and she agreed to read it with me. But it is something right? I don't know what is going to happen from here but she feels softer and more open to me...at least today! Still ont ready to leave OM. I know that real recovery will not start until she leaves OM but this cant hurt things can it? It Wont be a total waste of time??

What should I do about confronting the OM. Should I, How should I and When. Is now a good time. I could E mail him at his work or send him a letter at work. The only problem is my W works with him. what do I do?

This question comes up a lot: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A word about confronting the OP, when a WS is unwilling to end an affair on their own, because this question comes up a lot: Yes, confront the OP, and also inform the OP’s spouse or girlfriend or boyfriend of what you know, if they have one. If the OP’s spouse/friend is likely to be violent, you may want to hold off on that exposure, but that is the only exception I know of, other than a message from God.

The confrontation of the OP is fairly important, and should be worded carefully. Given the emotional state you are probably in right after you learn of an affair, that usually means doing it by letter or email, or maybe a phone call. I do not recommend direct confrontations because of the strong temptation you may have to become physically violent.

In the letter, say something like: “I love [spouse], and am trying to fix what is wrong with our marriage. I believe your relationship with [spouse] is interfering with our efforts to fix our marriage, and I would appreciate it if you would cease all contact with [spouse].” If you are CERTAIN it is a physical affair, you can use the word “affair”, instead of “relationship”. If you have children, you may also say that the OP is contributing to the destruction of a family.

They may laugh at you, but it is important to send that message, respectfully, for several reasons:

1. Because the OP may not know the WS is married. If that is the case, confronting the OP sometimes leads immediately to the end of the affair.
2. Because WS’s usually (almost always?) depict their spouse in a negative way to the OP. They say things like: “My wife doesn’t understand me” or “My husband won’t talk to me”, “My spouse is unconcerned about me and/or our marriage” or “We have an open relationship”, or something worse – you are crazy, controlling, cruel, etc. So, you need to confront the OP in a way that shows you at your best – not crazy, not unconcerned, not controlling, not angry, but rather calm, kind, purposeful, determined and concerned for your spouse and your relationship with them. When you do that, it introduces conflict into their relationship, because there is a conflict between what the OP experiences, and what they have been told.
3. Many WS’s and OP’s minimize the seriousness of their affairs with rationalizations like: “It’s only physical”, or, in the case of an Emotional Affair, “It’s just a close friendship” and “It’s not physical.” The language I have suggested avoids giving them a point to argue, and simply says it is hurting you.
4. In most cases, affairs grow in secret, and they die when exposed.


Remember that affairs are addictions. What happens when you try to take away an addict's fix? Frequently, they get angry. It is fairly common for a WS to get EXTREMELY angry when you expose their affair and confront the OP, and accuse you of trying to destroy them and your marriage and of being a horrible human being, so be prepared for an angry response. It is not a lovebuster, it is fighting for your marriage. You are doing nothing horrible. They are. You are fighting to save your marriage. They are destroying it. You are telling the truth. They are being deceitful. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A word about Plan A and B. Plan A can enable the affair. Done right (see the links above), it shouldn't, but it can be hard to be detached and consistent enough to "do it right", so it is really easy to slip into an enabling pattern of behavior. The reaction you have gotten from your wife is fairly common in Plan A, but Plan A alone does not usually end the affair, because the WS is getting their needs met two places. It's great for them - they can have their cake and eat it, too. So, be prepared for Plan B. It is necessary more often than not. Plan A can work, and sometimes does, but be prepared for the possibility of Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The only problem is my W works with him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why does this make confrontation difficult? Does the company have any policy about dating relationships at work? In many states, the laws on sexual harrassment are such that most companies have a policy against anyone in "reporting relationships" (one is the boss of the other) dating each other. Minnesota is one state like that. What is the state law and company policy in your case?

I dont know what the law is in Oregon. They are in the same posotions. Neiher one is really higher or lower. The Company They wotk for is small. I do not believe that the boss Knows what is going on. I don't know what he would do. I do know that he knew my wife had been going through somthign with her home life and offered her time off. I dont know he knows the extent of what is going on. Should I tell Him? If so, HOw? I still fear the reaction my wife will have when I contact OM and maybe boss. I do not what her to start lying to me again. I also know she will read my posts I know what I intend to do.

I dont know what the law is in Oregon. They are in the same posotions. Neiher one is really higher or lower. The Company They wotk for is small. I do not believe that the boss Knows what is going on. I don't know what he would do. I do know that he knew my wife had been going through somthign with her home life and offered her time off. I dont know he knows the extent of what is going on. Should I tell Him? If so, HOw? I still fear the reaction my wife will have when I contact OM and maybe boss. I do not what her to start lying to me again. I also know she will read my posts I know what I intend to do.

I'm a former WS. Allowing your W the space to continue on with her A won't give you the results you're looking for.

If she's like I was, she could use a push in the right direction. She needs to be aware of the enormous damage she's doing to you and your family. An A is like being addicted to drugs. She will go through withdrawals and it won't be pretty. Offering her help in getting over him is not something easily done, especially from you.

In my opinion, it best for her to get this sort of support elsewhere rather from you as it's too much to ask of a BS. As distasteful as it is, she will have to get over him and it won't happen overnight. She may think she had a close and deep friendship with him. If it was a true friendship then the OM wouldn't try to bust up her marriage. The support she gets in this department should be from someone who is interested in helping her save her marriage -- not tell her that it's ok to continue on with her A, and not from someone who will berate her.

If you have the strength to help her through this stage, then more power to you. She also needs to understand that she will have to give you the shoulder to cry on. She can't expect you to do all the work. She will have to acknowledge the damage and hurt she's caused first.

For us, seeing a counselor together worked best although it may take several counselors before you find the right one. If the first isn't giving BOTH partners a fair shake, then find another. Nobody should leave a counseling session feeling like they deserve to die, they should leave feeling that there is hope and with ideas on how to improve the marriage.

The OM needs to be told that his A with your wife has ended -- NOW. No more coffee time chats or deep conversations. If they must work together, it has to remain purely business. The best thing of course would be for her to find another position or even better, another job. That's not always possible, especially in this economic climate.

My H said he suspected for a long time that I was having an A but couldn't believe I'd do such a thing and left me to go about my business (and my A). Sometimes a WS needs clear boundaries set, and they need to know that you will not sit by patiently while they decide what to do. For her sake, for her dignity and yours, she needs to stop the A immediately.

If she can't tell him, maybe you can help draft up a letter to the OM telling him exactly why the A will end. Doing this in a dignified manner is better than using threats (and you don't sound like someone who would use threats anyway). Using threats will only strengthen the OM's opinion that you're abusive and your wife needs to be "saved". This is a difficult thing to do as emotions run so high, tempers are flaring, etc.

<small>[ January 12, 2004, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Typist ]</small>

She does need a push in the right direction. Sh has expressed to me that she needs "a slap on the Face" I do not know who will give it to her. Her friends and family tell her to make up her own mind and follow her heart. I have spoken briefly to a counselor and have my first appoitmnet and hers on Wensday. I expressed that we are looking for someone who will give us direction and help sort things out not to just to sit back and listen. The counselor told me she was very involved. Should I tell the counselor that I have no interest in having her help if she does not try and lead my wife in the direction of marriage reconciliation. Even when my wife says she doesn't know that is what she wants. I want the counselor to lead her down my path. Not the path of divorce. I want the counselor to lead her to leave the OM. I am somewhat afraid what the counselor will do

What Do you think my wife Will do when she reads my message about the counselor. It sounds like I am trying to sabotage the counseling. I have Told here though that my goal is to save the marriage. That everything I am doing now(plan A) is to save the marriage, not just to make her feel good. She does know my motives.

It is perfectly ok for you to tell the counselor what you want to get out of the counseling sessions &#8211; in your case reconciliation. Because your wife said she &#8220;needs a slap in the face&#8221; it tells me that she would like you to take the initiative and help her follow the right path. She is interested in saving her marriage. She also needs a lot of help in getting out of the fog (I hated that expression at first, but now I know it&#8217;s true).

My H had said that he was scared I&#8217;d leave him. He was so unaware that he held more power than he does. And by that I don&#8217;t mean you can or should bully her into seeing your point of view. When my H said that he was ready to go our separate ways this shocked me. Gave me that proverbial slap in the face. Made me realize that I did NOT want to lose him and that I can&#8217;t have an A *and* keep my H.

Having an initial phone interview with the counselor may help you determine what he/she can do for you. Your counselor says she&#8217;s proactive &#8211; this is a good sign. A good counselor will NOT take sides or stroke the other&#8217;s ego by saying that the other partner is wrong or right. This just causes more resentment.

The first one we had just listened and took copious notes &#8211; didn&#8217;t help at all. The second one we both talked to her on the phone first, saw her together, then saw her separately and then saw her together after that for each session. She did not keep secretes from us, we were not to say things to her that we couldn&#8217;t say to the other.

It&#8217;s all very difficult and embarrassing for the WS. We have to admit that what we did was wrong.

If you feel at any time that the counselor is not helping, then you find another. It happens all the time and they (the counselor) know that they can&#8217;t help everybody.

Tell her employer and the OM's wife what has been going on. The more you expose the affair the faster it will stop. Yes, she may loose her job but it will be worth it if you can stop the affair and save your marriage.

This Is eating me up inside. Its like she thinks it is ok for her to go on dates with OM. what is she thinking? what am I thinking? I am just letting her do this. I am going crazy. Iknow she is with him now or earlier in the day. NO I can not get a hold of her.

She wanted to talk to our son and make arrangements to pick him up after school. Now after she has spent the work day with him all her cares are out the door. Talk about being selfish.

Who does she care about.

She told me she would be honest with me if I asked. She knows It will hurt me if she is with Him. She will tell me this time But if I tell her it hurts she will start lying again.

I cant stand this. I am going crazy. I dont know what to do.
O

Hello,

I think the old saying applies here:
"No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change." She is married to you and goes on dates with the OM with your knowledge. I know this is hard to accept but you are really enabling her to have this affair with this guy if she does not have to worry about any consequences.
I also believe down deep it is difficult for her to have respect for a husband that accepts her dating another man while be married to you without consequesnces. I know you want her back bit she feels she is not risking anything because she knows you seemingly will accept all of this disrespect from her and still beg to be with her.

A husband that is a doormat is not a very attractive person. If the roles were reversed do you think she would be so accepting and acting the way you are? If you do not respect yourself then what makes you think anyone else will? I see no consequences to her actions that would cause her to get out of the fog since you are apparently so accepting. Maybe just maybe if she knew that you have had enough and are seeking legal advise it would wake her up. Right now she is a cake eater and sees no reason to change her behavior because you have become so accepting to it. A decision not to make a decision is a decision. Unfortunately, this seems to apply to both of you. I wish you luck.

I Do NOt Accept the Actions I have. althought I am aware. I have told her it needs to stop. I have told her how it makes me feel. Even now she would feel very hurt If I was doing the same thing(see other people) I am very confused.

Things seem better on the weekends when she does not see OM. Then on weekdays she sees him at work and things seem to fall back apart. I dont know.