JL you said on the Julie Elizabeth thread re why should a WS tell the BS:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hiding the A makes it unlikely that you will address these problems because it will lead to deep discussions, it sadly often means that even if you voice your feelings that your H doesn't really take them seriously. The number of BS's here who "woke up" when the affair was reveiled is huge.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As you well know, my H knows the truth. However, (and I know this may be getting old), since he does NOT want to talk about the A, I almost feel as if we may be in the same spot as couple's where the BS doesn't know he/she is betrayed. Does that make any sense?

If he won't talk about it, how do we address the situation we were in that made the A so easy for me to enter?

As another poster mentioned, I don't want there to be a crack which would leave room for EITHER of us to ever have an A again. I want the door to be closed, and locked for good.

AD,

You are a sweet thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Your H knows, and he knows as much as he thinks he needs to know to move on, love you, love this child. If he needs more he knows he can ask. It is his option.

HOWEVER, I sense there are things YOU need to talk to him about, that would make YOU feel better. Is that true?? If it is, talk to him. Tell him you need to air somethings out, and you really need his help by listening to you and giving you feed back.

Girl, after the things you have had to tell him, is there something you CANNOT be open with him about?? Speak up now, you can tell us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Seriously, if you need his support or perhaps there are still some things you need from him that you are not getting talk with him about them.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If he won't talk about it, how do we address the situation we were in that made the A so easy for me to enter?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are no longer in that situation are you? If you felt yourself slipping you Would talk to him wouldn't you? Why don't you ask him this. Ask him if you could come to him, if you felt something wrong in the "force". What you need to know more than anything is that he would address FUTURE issues and not back off. Isn't that right?

If so, and you are uncertain that he would, then ask him, tell him why you want to know.

You see what we are talking about is communications. It seems it is open in your situation and there really are no secrets from each other now. There may be details that you know,that he doesn't want to know, but those are not secrets as you are willing to tell him anything he wants.

AD, you have mentioned this a couple of times. My feeling is that YOU need to talk somethings out. If that is correct, talk with him about them. If the involve details of the A, explain to him that you are bringing them up in order to address the things that are bothering you.

AD, you H has taken a somewhat unusual approach to all of this, but it may not be at all an unreasonable approach. Your child with OM, has catalyzed him and you into a whole new marriage. The two of you have managed to turn what is most men's and women's worst fear into something very amazing. You should be proud.

I know you worry that the other shoe will drop, but I don't think so. Your H seems to have both feet on the ground already. So do you. I think you are just amazed that it has turned out this way. A good position to be in. ENJOY AD, you deserve the happiness and so does your H.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> HOWEVER, I sense there are things YOU need to talk to him about, that would make YOU feel better. Is that true?? If it is, talk to him. Tell him you need to air somethings out, and you really need his help by listening to you and giving you feed back.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it's true. I've pretty much gotten past the fact that he doesn't want the "details". However, I want and need to tell him what was going through my mind pre-a, tell him where I "was at", etc. I will follow your advice. It sounds like a good way to approach him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Girl, after the things you have had to tell him, is there something you CANNOT be open with him about?? Speak up now, you can tell us. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, quite the opposite. I would love to tell all, (well, not *love*, but you know what I mean). However, I think my need to tell may be for selfish reasons. To relieve myself perhaps?

Yet, I'm very concerned that he needs to know some things so our M will be affair proof, or at least as much as a M can be. When his and or my actions and words resemble the way we were pre-a, sometimes I want to say, "don't you get it?...I don't want to go back to the way we were before...I don't want a M that is fertile for an A for either one of us..." BUT, I don't say these things, because I feel like, how dare I? How dare I even mention the word A, after all he has done for me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are no longer in that situation are you? If you felt yourself slipping you Would talk to him wouldn't you? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No I am not in that situation. Yes, unequivocally, even with all my fears of hurting him with discussing A stuff, I would tell him if I felt myself slipping downhill again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AD, you have mentioned this a couple of times. My feeling is that YOU need to talk somethings out. If that is correct, talk with him about them. If the involve details of the A, explain to him that you are bringing them up in order to address the things that are bothering you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, I'm going to admit a fear of mine. I fear he will fall into an A. Yet, I'm really afraid to express that to him...kind of the, how dare I thing again.

Also, another thing that still continues to bother me a lot is that he doesn't know the length of the A. Not so much the length on it's own being the main thing, but along with the length of time there was emotional attachments to x-om. I think my H thinks I only had a PA, but doesn't know it was an EA too. I feel guilty about this.

Sorry if this seems like a messy post. I'm having a little trouble expressing myself with this issue. Hope you understand.

AD,

I think I do... sort of. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, it's true. I've pretty much gotten past the fact that he doesn't want the "details". However, I want and need to tell him what was going through my mind pre-a, tell him where I "was at", etc. I will follow your advice. It sounds like a good way to approach him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is a good thing to do. I will address this later as you mentioned something else later. Tell him that you need to talk to him about things. Tell him he doesn't have to solve any problems or take any action. He just needs to listen to you get things off of your chest. If he asks why, tell him the answer ( you love him, you want to protect him, and you don't want to lose him) That is the answer isn't AD? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> No, quite the opposite. I would love to tell all, (well, not *love*, but you know what I mean). However, I think my need to tell may be for selfish reasons. To relieve myself perhaps?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, tell him you need to tell him some things for selfish reasons. What sort of selfish reasons do you have in mind AD?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yet, I'm very concerned that he needs to know some things so our M will be affair proof, or at least as much as a M can be. When his and or my actions and words resemble the way we were pre-a, sometimes I want to say, "don't you get it?...I don't want to go back to the way we were before...I don't want a M that is fertile for an A for either one of us..." BUT, I don't say these things, because I feel like, how dare I? How dare I even mention the word A, after all he has done for me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My response is "How dare you NOT tell him after all of the things he has done for you."

You must tell him, if you think it is good for the marriage and good for him. Your A has had some good. You now have a child you both cherish and that has brought you back together. Your A has provided you insights about yourself, your H, people in general that you never had before.

How dare you NOT share them with him. You really need to. Just explain yourself and then talk to him. Men like the direct approach, especially when they know it is done in love and NOT to attack them or even change them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> No I am not in that situation. Yes, unequivocally, even with all my fears of hurting him with discussing A stuff, I would tell him if I felt myself slipping downhill again.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you are missing something. Discussing what you have learned how you felt and feel now is NOT talking about the A. It is discussing the affects of the A, the learning process that you went through because of the A. These are NOT the A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Ok, I'm going to admit a fear of mine. I fear he will fall into an A. Yet, I'm really afraid to express that to him...kind of the, how dare I thing again.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's see you love him, right? You don't want to ever lose him, right? You crave to be around him (Ok perhaps a bit mellow dramatic), right? Exactly what man have you ever known that wouldn't want to hear this? Isn't that what you are saying when you say you "fear" he may fall into an A?

Again, "How dare you not tell him these things and your fears of losing him." The man needs to hear that you value him, that you fear what you have done has put a chink in his armour. That you love him deeply. Good grief AD, talk to the man tell him these things. Heck, he might just break down and cry if you tell him these things. Tears of joy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also, another thing that still continues to bother me a lot is that he doesn't know the length of the A. Not so much the length on it's own being the main thing, but along with the length of time there was emotional attachments to x-om. I think my H thinks I only had a PA, but doesn't know it was an EA too. I feel guilty about this.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, another lesson in men here. In case you don't know it men express love via physical action. How many times have you read about the difference between men and women. The EA vs. the PA. I would bet dollars to donuts that your H KNOWS that you were deeply "in love" with OM. You had sex with him and you had his child (or at least the odds are high that you did). Most men would take that as a woman deeply in love with the OM. Most men would assume that with the PA came the EA. And the PA part would be the worst thing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry if this seems like a messy post. I'm having a little trouble expressing myself with this issue. Hope you understand.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yup, figured that was the case. You need to be able to clearly articulate what is bugging you before bringing it up to H. Once you do and can, he will listen, understand, and it will help him as well.

You are doing well AD.

God Bless,

JL

First, let me say, I wish I could be as quick to reply as you. You clearly don't have a baby to tend to during and in between posts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I guess when I say, "how dare I?", it's because he has told me in the past that he doesn't like it when I bring A issues up, that he was doing so well "forgetting", till I bring something up again. He does say though, that if I need to talk about it, he understands.

We actually had a wonderful discussion one night while out for dinner in Dec. It was right around the time the "x-ray" thread began. I felt comfortable in bringing it up to him. He was uneasy at first, but let me go on. He seemed to get more relaxed and even gave some input on his own, without any prompting from me. Still, he said he doesn't like talking about *it*, that he wants it left in the past. He also said he fears if we talk too openly about things, that someday our children could pick up on something, or overhear us.

About telling him I fear him having an A. I feel like it would be saying he could do something as low as I did. Like trying to make what I did seem more normal? I don't know, I'm so confused! For the record though, (I believe it was you that mentioned the safeguards you have taken to prevent an A), my H has also travelled all of his business life, and has always set up the same safeguards you described. I used to scoff at him about his seemingly over carefulness. Saying, "what?...do you think you would actually have an affair?" He would say, "you don't understand...there are so many opportunities out there if I were to put myself in certain situations...it could happen to anyone who isn't careful to protect himself and his marriage..."

Thank you for what you said about PA v EA in terms of how men view them. I had always heard that is usually the case. However, for all I know, my H thinks I only had a ONS because of my ML meltdown, but never became emotionally involved.

I know what you mean by men liking the direct approach. My H is very no nonsense. Example, the other day I called him @ work with a question. He immediately picked up on the fact I couldn't articulate it well, (kind of like someone else I know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). He right away asked if I could please get straight to the point. Granted, he was busy at the time, but anytime I am able to get straight to the point, he really appreciates it.

I have some other questions for you, or anyone else who would like to respond.

My biggest Q right now is: Why do you think my H is so in love w/ OC? He genuinely loves him as much as our Cs. I kid you not, he spends more time and asks about him more than he did with our Cs. He speaks of his hopes and dreams for this little one more than he did with our C's. When my H wakes in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep, he asks if he can get autumnboy out of bed so he can lay with us, or so he can play with him. The list goes on and on. I don't get it!!!! Can you give me any clues? Or, is there nothing to get?

Anyway, there are other things I wonder about, but that's enough for now. I feel like I'm making less sense, instead of more!

Take good care.

Oh, one other thing. My H has told me he doesn't like me posting or looking at this site at all. He thinks it's not healthy for me. That I'm keeping myself in the past by doing so. Says he has forgiven me, that I need to forgive myself and try to move on as he is doing. In his defense, he hasn't ever looked at the site, thus doesn't know the value. Do you think there is merit in what he says though?

AD,

Probably, the last post of the day, but you asked some very interesting questions. I don't know what your H is thinking here, but I will offer you my thoughts, if I were in his situation.

You asked </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you think my H is so in love w/ OC? He genuinely loves him as much as our Cs. I kid you not, he spends more time and asks about him more than he did with our Cs.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First, answer he is OLDER. He sees children in a different light than when he was young. I can not speak for women, but I know as a male, I did not see children as I do know. Now remember my youngest is 16 and will be 65 when he gets out of college. Most of my friends have many grandkids. But, I see children not as just something cute and cuddly. Or even as someone I have to take care of. I see them as my legacy. That comes with age.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He speaks of his hopes and dreams for this little one more than he did with our C's. When my H wakes in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep, he asks if he can get autumnboy out of bed so he can lay with us, or so he can play with him. The list goes on and on. I don't get it!!!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Consider what this child means in his life. Your other children came when he was younger, trying to make it in his career, sure of his marriage to you, KNOWING many things that later in his life he would find he didn't know. He has/had hopes and dreams for your other children, but they are getting to an age where he has much less influence. They are getting ready to try their wings and face life head on.

This child is just starting and your H seems as if he is better able to express what he feels. It is not COOL for young men to hang their hopes for the future on a child. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

But, AD I think for him this child might also mean something else. It was a chance for him to redeem himself with you. A chance for him to do the right thing... be a hero if you will. He needed/needs your approval,what better way than to take good care of this child. I suspect he felt he failed you when you had the affair. He may even feel he has failed his other children.

AD I suspect what you think of your H is very important to your H more important than you realize. That is why I keep telling you to talk with him. Not so much about the A but what you have learned about yourself, your H, and your marriage. What you fear. My guess he needs your support a lot more than you realize and he always did.

So, what I am really trying to say is that this child and the events that lead to his being in your life, have had a very deep and profound effect on your H. It is sort of a chance for him to go back and do it right this time both with this child and you.

I don't know but that would be my guess.

God Bless,

JL