Hi Cerri,

Just a little background. Married 25 years, married because I was pregnant. Felt like H has not been in the marriage for many years. He has been working out of town the last 5 years in the name of "work". I find out he never really wanted to be at home. Two years ago, he had his first affair, she dumped him, I moved to where he was working in hopes of working on the marriage. He agreed to that only because she dumped him. 2 years later moved back to our house, with promise from him this would never happen again, he would work out of town 6 months and at home 6 months for the winter. He is in construction. 4 months ago, he met another woman and 3 days later was moved in with her, and phoned me up said he was leaving me for her. He didnt try to hide the affair. He said he never loved me and should have left me years ago. Now my question. I would like to reconcile. I know you talk about plan A and B. Obviously with him living 12 hours away and living with OW and wants nothing to do with his marriage, I cannot do Plan A. Plan B I take it is, no contact with WH, which of course is fine with him. What do I do, go on with my life and try and find someone else, or do I sit around an wait for WH to come out of the fog. He says he wants to marry her (after only 4 months of knowing her sheesh). And why would he pretend like things were okay between us, then wait till he found someone else to tell me how he really felt. I know on these forums, that most of the affiars, the husband is still in the marriage and living at home. What about us where the husband is living with the OW and has not contact with the wife unles absolutely necessary. When I tell him I would like to reconcile, he looks at me like I am nuts and goes why would you ever want me back after having two affairs on you, and many years ago slept with a prostitute. WHAT DO I DO????

C,

cerri is out this week with surgery....and recovery. There are several of us here who work with her however, and perhaps we can offer you a little help until she returns.

I'll tell you something that cerri always says....she LOVES it when they move in together...why? Because it's the fastest way for the fantasy to go "poof". Reality sets in very quickly when the reality of everyday life intrudes on the fantasy.

You didn't mention children....do you have any?

Okay....here's the thing about Plan A and B. You can't do a plan B without a plan A. Of course it isn't easy with him living far away with the OW....but it can and has been done. Sometimes, cerri has recommended a Plan A letter when no contact can be made at all....but use whatever contact you do have...to stop all LBs and fill whatever needs he will allow. Even phone conversations can be an opportunity to fill needs. Do everything in your power to delay the legalities so that you have time to do what may be a limited Plan A....but it's still important, and I know cerri would want you to do that first.

What contact if any do you have with him?

Yes, you do go on with your life....but no, you do NOT date anyone until such time as you are divorced...and maybe even sometime after that. These affairs usually end between 6 months to a 2 years....so that's approximately how long a Plan B lasts. But you aren't ready for Plan B yet....soon probably....but not yet.

Hang in there sweetie.

Oh....and by the way....who knows about the affair? Do you have a good rapport with his family? Are they supportive?

Starfish thanks for replying to me, I have to leave right now, but will post answers to your questions tonight okay,, I dont have time right now. Looking forward to hearing more of your input. I take it Plan A and B are in the book SAA???.

Cheryl

star*fish, what if they don't move in together, but the WH moves out of family home?

My WH is moving out February 1. For sure they will spend more time together ... but between having our kids at his apartment 50% of time (they're not allowed to see OW), she's got a 2-year-old daughter, his work, travelling for work and exercise, would they have enough time for it to fizzle? What does a normal timeline for this look like?

<small>[ January 17, 2004, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Stung by a Bee ]</small>

cheryl....yes Plan A and B are in SAA....and there is some other stuff both here and on the homesite. Let me give you cerri's guidelines for Plan A:

Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.


Stung....the timeline for affairs runs from about six months to two years. The more contact they have, the more it resembles a normal R instead of a fantasy, and the more conflict can be injected into the affair (like through confrontation and exposure) the quicker the fizzle. If they don't see each other often...sometimes it takes a little longer for the blush to leave the rose. Don't give up. Good Luck.

Hi Starfish
Sorry for taking so long to write back.
His whole family knows about the affair, because he told everyone and was quite proud of the fact. I have the support of his two sisters who gave him heck, his brother doesnt really care one way or another and for his parents, well his mother never liked me, so I have never heard anything from them.

The only contact I have with him is when I need to ask him a question about finances. I try to be civil and kind but it doesnt always work. I do not call him names, but make him face up to things. He does say mean things to me, like I never loved you, I found someone better, I should have left you years ago etc. I dont imagine I will ever see him in person again. He lives 12 hours away.

You said that affairs last from 6 months to 2 years. After 5 months he is talking marriage already with her. It doesnt look like its fizzling out. I certainly hope it does.

Cheryl

Ok - so do you have SAA?

And your H bragging about the and the info being out there in that manner is not the same as you exposing and asking for what you want. In his bragging there is much misinformation and deceit going on.

Harley says that most affairs end, and this is true. But unless you change some very basic things about you and how you address issues in your life it is most likely that your marriage will be another of those slow slides to divorce. This is why Harley is so adamant about conditions for recovery and why I insist that you need to rock the affair boat AND you need to change how you interact - not just with your spouse, but with yourself.

He probably does think that you are nuts for wanting him back. Maybe ya are, maybe you're not - not my call I don't do normal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> But what I think is the underlying element here is the lack of respect for yourself that you are demonstrating to him. You're begging, and in the past he got to do his affair thing and then come home without conditions or a strategy for change.

During Plan A - you do things to entice your spouse back into the marriage. You also do things to rock the affair boat. They seem contradictory but if you keep the health/safety of the marriage as your goal rather than the emotional state of your spouse then it makes more sense.

Once the A ends - with or without PlB - the focus changes. This is not the time for the BS to twist into pretzel shapes to appease the WS. Exactly the opposite. The WS needs to let the BS know that they are ready to do what it takes to be allowed to come home and be part of the marriage and the family again.

The natural tendency after a spouse has had an affair is to breathe a big sigh of relief and to take them back with open arms. When that happens without firm conditions and boundaries recovery gets off to a bad start (if at all) and it is very hard to heal the marriage.

If you have done all that PlA requires - I must have a list here somewhere, anyone know where it is? - then we should talk about PlB.

C

C: Isn't it the list Starfish posted above? I saw you post that list to someone else once.

<small>[ January 28, 2004, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by johnh39:
<strong> C: Isn't it the list Starfish posted above? I saw you post that list to someone else once. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL LOL LOL, John. Blonde. That's my only defense. Blonde.

So where the heck have you been? Did you get my email before the holidays about the Smart Marriages Conference? It is now official - I will be presenting with Peggy Vaughn (soooo cool!!) on the effects of porn on marriage and on the increase in cybersex infidelity.

C

Cerri thanks so much for replying to me. I understand you had surgery, so I hope that you are recovering well from it.

Yes I do have SAA, I am half way thru it, up to Plan A & B.

And your H bragging about the and the info being out there in that manner is not the same as you exposing and asking for what you want. In his bragging there is much misinformation and deceit going on.

You said that I have to expose things and ask for what I want? Excuse the dumb questions. But what do I ask for and what do I expose? Everyone knows about the affair. WH wants everyone to know her and meet her. He has even put a condition on his kids (son 25, daughter 22). He told my daughter that if she will not agree to see him with his OW that he does not have much time for her. My daughter lives with me. They used to be close. He went to Holland with the OW and met all her family.

Harley says that most affairs end, and this is true. But unless you change some very basic things about you and how you address issues in your life it is most likely that your marriage will be another of those slow slides to divorce. This is why Harley is so adamant about conditions for recovery and why I insist that you need to rock the affair boat AND you need to change how you interact - not just with your spouse, but with yourself.

Again, not sure what to do to rock the affair boat. Like I said I only interact with him when I have to ask him for money. Do I just keep the subject at hand about the finances. Do I ask him how he is doing? Do I say I love you? (when I am not feeling too much love right now). Do I say I want my marriage to work? I do realize that I have a lot of things to change in me. Right now I feel like everthing is out of control, I do not have a job and cant seem to find one, thus the phoning up the WH and asking for money. (I hate having to do that)

He probably does think that you are nuts for wanting him back. Maybe ya are, maybe you're not - not my call I don't do normal. But what I think is the underlying element here is the lack of respect for yourself that you are demonstrating to him. You're begging, and in the past he got to do his affair thing and then come home without conditions or a strategy for change

Yes you are right, I probably dont have self respect for myself especially after the first affair. I wished I had known about HNHN and SAA back then. I have never begged him to come back home though, I have made known to him that I want my marriage to work, thus him thinking I want him back.

I did write him a 5 page letter, which of course I never got a response from him. I would like you to read it Cerri, I wont post in here, its too personal. You might shudder at some things in it and go, oh my why did you write that or maybe you wont. I could send it to your email, if you have time to read it or maybe its too late for that.

Anyway thanks Cerri for taking the time for me and look forward to any other advice you have for me.

Cheryl

HI Cerri, me again
5) Confront the OP. Tell OP that you love your WS and that you want your marriage to survive. Tell OP that he/she is contributing to the destruction of your home and your family. Beyond this do not contact the OP. Do not set up a relationship with them. They are incidental to the problems in your marriage. Given time the affair will almost always end whether or not you and you WS remain together. Affairs are based on fantasy. Tell the OP’s spouse.

Confront the OW, should I be doing this? She said to a mutual friend that she wasnt stealing anybodies husband. She is the one that told my H, when he met her and knew he was married to **** or get off the pot. She gave him the ulitmatum, me or your wife,, H chose her. The OW does not have a spouse, and she has been married 3 times before. Is there any point to confronting her.

Cheryl

C: yeah, I heard. Cool. Gee, I saw a great piece on that subject recently - how pornography use leads to alienation and becomes a substitute for the real thing - rather than inspiring lust, rape, etc. as many feminists feared in the early 80's. I'll see if I can find it.

I've been busy - new baby, starting a new job soon, facilitating a new marriage enrichment class at church, dealing with a 14 yr-old son who decided homework was an unnecessary intrusion into his life (A's on tests & 0's on HW = D or F for a final grade). Sigh... things are geting better...doing the contract thing.
Not to mention holidays and all that. Gee, 15 hrs/wk is tough to find.

Hi Cerri,

I know you are a busy woman, I posted here a few more questions for you. Hoping in the next few days that you can answer them for me.

Thanks so much
Cheryl