Deeppain,

First, I guess in a way you are little ahead of the game here. Yes, that is right. Your W does not know you know. This gives you some advantages. Second, unlike me, you have alot more control over your emotions.

Others on this board will probalby be better able to get the following message across to you, but I will give it a shot. Your wife is throwing you mixed signals. She discusses D. but then talks about your future together. She is confused and in a fog. Addicted. She probably does not know what she wants, and probably she wants you, but may not get it yet. She has and probably will say things that will be very hurtful this is all part of the fog.

The very first thing you have to keep in mind is that you have to win her back. You have to start fulfilling her EN's as best you can. You have to handle all this without throwing out LB's. This will only cause her to run into his arms further for shelter, a safe place. Chances are there is a void in her that she is filling through the OM. Chances are you can do something about that.

Now that brings us to the next point. You want to expose the affair to her office and the OMW. That is fine, but maybe you should expose it to your W first. What really counts is the two of you to start communicating. You have to find out what she is missing in her life.

It seems pretty obvious to you that there is an EA. Is there PA as well? In my opinion EA is tougher to deal with as there are strong emotions involved, fog. Do you have evidence? If you so secure it first. You do not know if you will need it further down the line. For example, the OMW probably will not believe you if you go to her. Although it is also possible that she knows about it already.

I would sit with my W and tell her you know. I would try to be as caring and understanding as possible. Yes that is correct. You have to be the good one. You have to show her how much you care. You have to win her back, break the fog. Be prepared for lies, be prepared to hear some pretty hurtful things, not just about the A if she opens up to you, but she may attact you personally. Don't believe everything you hear. Chances are she will be scared, upset. She may tell you she does not love you. She may tell you many things. Chances are you will at the very least feel that she cares more about the OM's feelings then yours. You are now trying to take something away from her. Expect a negative reaction to this. I really suggest that you read the principles of this site, before confronting her.

Next is exposing the affair. I would go to the OMW before going to her workplace. She has a right to know. This may help to break up the A.

Deepain, do not go looking for a quick fix here. You will not find it. One thing is for sure the A has to end, before recovery begins, and that starts with communication between you and your W.

Thanks PTM...

This is very confusing and frustrating....
I just know that i must present proof or she will not omite the A and keep lying about.....

I love her so much that still deeply hurts inside that she has done this....
But it must come out and I hope she still has love for me.
i will start showing som EN's to her but slowly and valetine day is coming and I should show something too..
the funny thing too is that she got tickets to go to a valentines day party for the two of us with her cousin, that confused me too why we are going.....

thanks.
deeppain

Deeppain,

You have heard voice mails, you know she sneaks out to call him. You have read e-mails. I do not know what they contain, or how involved the A is, but you do.

With or without evidence, you know something is up and this is eating you soul. At one point with or without evidence, you do have to start comunicating the subject of the A to her. It has to come out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How long has your wife's A lasted before it was exposed at her work.
your sit is like mine but my W does not know that i know.......
Did you approach your W with evidence or just your findings.
I want this to be exposed but thinking how it should be done.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, I never anwered your question: It went on at work for about 3 months in total before it was exposed at work.

I found out there was something on a Monday morning, by Monday night, she knew everything I knew, which was not alot, but enough. I was on a business trip from Friday to Sunday. Came back Sunday afternoon and everything was fine. Monday, I noticed some things in the house that did not seem normal. I did not give it too much thought, but stuff just kept hitting me in the face, until I went into a full search mode for clues. I never suspected NOTHING. I ended up going through the garbage in the garage. Found the makings of a dinner for two in a bag on the bottom of the garbage can. Empty wine bottle, not from our collection, shrimp tails, etc... Then things started to hit me from when I called her Saturday Night from the hotel and when I got home on Sunday. Found a male co-workers phone number on the call display from Sunday Morning before I got home, so I had a pretty good idea of who was there. By Monday Night she knew everything I knew, and I got a ton of lies with it. I met with the OM the next day for lunch. I still did not know there was an A, but suspected it. They had a story cooked up, and it was possible.

As time went, there were more clues that this was bigger then they were telling me. Then I caught her on a pay phone three weeks later at a grocery store. She said she was calling me. She has a cell phone. She said her battery was dead. I asked to see it and she got all huffy that I have to start to believe in her and no this is stupid, I was being stupid and she would not show it to me. I stormed out of the store and came back in while she was at the cash. I took her purse and the phone. Fully charged battery. I always knew, but now I KNEW, no doubts. We went home, and I said I had to go for a walk to clear my head. She called the OM from our home (I had the phone bugged). Nothing conclusive came from it other then she was on the pay phone with him and that they were friends, but that I knew already. If I would have stayed gone longer, I would have found out more, but I came back and they hung up, and she told me she called him as she thought I was going to call him.

He even came to our home that night to convince me there was nothing. I dared not go near him as I was pretty freaked out and thought I would lose control. Him coming to our home did confuse me. Why would he come? If there was something really going on the last place the OM would go to is my house while he knows I am there totally pissed off. On top of that I am much bigger and have a ton of self-defence courses under my belt, he knows all that. It confused me totally. I told him to leave and told him that I requested that my W no longer see him other then at the office. She agreed and he agreed. Previous to the pay phone inncedent, I told my W they could still be friends. A few days later, I caught a 3+ hour phone conversation between them that laid it all out. Full A. He was trying to convince her to stay with him in the A. She was scared of losing me, and broke it off the day after the pay phone thing. He was not letting go. He had all kinds of plans on how to keep it going without being caught. It was obvious that she was having trouble breaking it off. She was deep in the fog.

So that in a nutshell is my story of how I found out. It took one month from when I found something to the phone conversation which told me almost everything. My W basically knew what I knew as I found it, because I would ask her. I basically interogated her everynight. One week later she wrote me a letter telling me everything I did not know.

what if the om is not married his wife divorce him. and he lives with his parents. and my wife is in the deep fog the affair is still going on after i found out. she still lies would not tell me anything. the om works with her iam going to tell her job.

Deeppain,

Before you let on to your wife that you know about it, hire a private investigator to get some photographic evidence of the A. It's important to get photographic evidence before she knows that you know because they will start getting really secretive and careful. Then when you confront her get ready to hear some of the craziest, wildest lies you ever heard. After confronting her with all the other evidence and listening to all her crazy excuses, bring out the pictures. If I had got photos before my wife found out that I knew about her A it would have saved me months of fights and hard times.

Thanks everyone for posting......

PTM, that was interesting and i hope my sit. can come out as good as yours.....

Can you please tell me how you bugged your phone line, I know they talk on my home phone.....

Thanks.
Deeppain

Deeppain,

I bought mine at a Spy Store. Every city has them or you can get them on the internet. Check in your local yellow pages or do a search on spy equipement.

The one I have, looks like a reglular tape recorder, but has a phone wire attached. You just plug into the wall and it only goes on when the phone is in use. I think it will do 10 hours per tape side. There are different ones out there. Features I would suggest include an A/C plug so the batteries do not run out, long playing, and only goes on when the phone is in use.

I did it for about three weeks and there was nothing. In fact, I thought I would give it up at one point as there was nothing, but patience paid off in the end.

Just becareful as it is illeagal to do it some areas, even if it is your own home. Of course I do not have to tell that for this to work, secrecy is a must. That means do not tell anyone, and make sure it is very well hidden but in a place that you can get at it regularly.

When my W found out about it, she was pissed, but judging what she did, she got over it really fast. She eventually understood that she pushed me to do that. We listened to the tape together, that was D-Day. All I knew was that they had a really long converstation, but did not know what was on it. She confessed everything when she knew I taped that conversation, before we listened to it. Everything I got from her before that was lies, lies, and more lies. The only truthful info I got from her before that is when she was cornered like a rat.

In our case, me knowing everything changed everything. She confessed what I did not know a week later in a letter. She was too ashamed to tell me to my face. That was OK, I understood that.

A word of caution, hearing all this straight from the horses mouth is really emotionally hard. I mean really hard. I think I was a lucky one as she did break it off a few days earlier, but she was not over him by a long shot. Even though she kept telling the OM that it has to stop because she was scared her life would be ruined, she also did not say that she did not like him, on the contrary there were many terms of endearments exchanged. The realistic side of her knew it had to end(this is where I am lucky) but the emotional side did not at all want to give him up. I write that as I made it sound so cut and dry earlier. It was not, but true recovery began there. It does not happen that way for everyone. I truly hope it does for you.

You may have to win her back, so be ready to Plan A.

thanks PTM,
I just hope the marriage is not over...
I just got to figure this out....
Thanks.
Flyer

Here is a link to an online spy store. I have not used them, but a friend did, and said their service was good. http://www.thespystore.com/telephonerecorder-page1.htm

Get all of the evidence you can. If I had it to do over, I would have hired a private investigator. It would have saved me plenty of time, and stopped the A much quicker. If you suspect they have contact over the web, there are many good Keylogger programs, which you can install without them knowing it. You can even monitor some of them from a remote computer.

Get all of the evidence you can, within a reasonable amount of time, and when you confront, use only copies, making sure the originals are safely stored where WS cannot get to them.

I found MB well after my own DDay, and things would have gone much better for me if I had known about it in advance and been better prepared. Knowing about the Fog, Plan A, LoveBusters, and all of that would have made things much smoother and more efficient.

There is a tremendous amount of solace and sage advice on these forums, and you have done yourself a huge favor by coming here. Become intimately familiar with Plan A and how to confront in a controlled and intelligent manner, and you may be pleasantly surprised with how things go.

Good luck to you!

Deeppain,

I concur 100% with Shattered Dreams. Everything he wrote. Truth, evidence, protect it (you just do not know when you are going to need it). Plan A.

I have read so many stories here. The Plans seem to really work. It worked for me. Really get to understand the fog.

Thanks Shattered Dreams and PTM.....

I am glag that i am not alone.....
I am planning to expose the affair to W and I just got to figure out how. A few years ago i confronted her due to cell hone calls at very odd times and to always the same number and she just freaked and wanted a D.....

I want to get away from that and show hard proof....

Thanks.
Deeppain

Deeppain,

I think to get evidence does many things. Knowlage is power as they say. At the very least it will give you the knowlage to know how to proceed. To see the big picture.

What do you know about the OM?

Does your W drive? Does she have her own car?

Other then on this board, have you confided this with anyone else?

What do you know about the OM?
He is a co-worker and he is married with kids...

Does your W drive? Does she have her own car?
Yes and has her own car.....

Other then on this board, have you confided this with anyone else?
On other person, to give me support....

I have not said this to anyone due to, worried to get the wrong advise and make matters worse.

Thanks
deeppain

Hi Deeppain,

I feel for you. I was really torn up inside knowing, but not knowing all. Not knowing where to go or what to do next. Not be able to get the answers I needed to at least try to figure out the next step.

Here are some of the things I did, or at least considerd doing. I did alot of them.

-Phone recorder
-Bugged the house (he was there often when I was gone)
-Put a voice activated voice recorder under the car seat or somewhere where she cannot find it.
-Parked near the office to see if they went anywhere together especially during lunch or when she had to "work late".
-Borrow a friends car to tail them.
-Hiring a PI
-hiding a voice recorder in her purse. This is a scary one as you could get caught easily.
-GPS device attached to the car. Internet spy stores have them.
-Computer Spy Ware
-checking her voice mail at work and cell phone. I did this one. I knew her cell passcode already so that was easy. I got her office voice mail passcode, by telling her on a Friday that I left her a really cute message on her voice mail at work (I did leave a cute message just after I knew she was gone). She retrieved the message from home, and I just checked last number dialed. You have to have a phone that supports this and that is the phone she will have to use. Most cordless phones with a screen have it. Another note is that some voice mail systems ask you if you want to keep the message as new, some do not. If she does not have a system at work/cell that can put the message back as new or unheard then she will eventually figure it out that someone is checking her messages. The cell phone was easy as it let me resave the message as new.

-go through her stuff, pockets, purse, etc...
-receipts, cell phone, credit cards, bank. I found lots of stuff this way. My W paid for most of the the things they did, as he did not have the money, but I did, how twisted is that. We ate out in restaurants alot, so I never even noticed until I knew something was up. As her credit cards are supplimentary cards of mine, this too was easy. If you see something that looks odd. You can call the bank that issued that card and tell them you want to see the original receipt. This came in handy as once she told me she was going out with two other people. She told me she paid, and they gave her the cash. I got hold of the original receipt and it cleary showed only two meals, and it showed only two customers. They will send it to you in the mail. You can also check points cards.
-you can go through the garbage.

As I am writing all this stuff, I am thinking to myself, I am one sick puppy. I had to know and she was not going to tell me or stop.

All this stuff takes lots of time, and money. I spent over $2k on spy stuff, and I figured the A cost us over $10k if her lost wages were thrown in and their meals together. I told her this once, but I do not rub it in her face.

As you believe that they use your home phone to comunicate this is probably your best option. You could even leave the house at times where you think they will talk, take the kids and give them all the time they need to get the answers you need.

I asked you if you have confided in someone else as I know that there were times where my close friend talked me down a little. I almost did some really stupid stuff that I would have regretted and he hammered that point home. I did do some stupid things, but not the really stupid stuff.

I do not have all the answers on what to do, Deeppain, I am just trying to relate my experiance and maybe that might help you to form your decisions. Take what you like and toss the rest.

One thing is for sure, you can not live your entire life in this kind of "deep pain".

Your not a sick puppy PTM....
You just want the truth like I do.....

I really happy that you are giving me your thoughts, it helps.....thank you.....

Whe the OM's W found out about the A, did she want to confront your W. Some women when they find out would want to tear the OW apart for having an A with their H....
I wonder if this will happen to W.....

Thanks.
Deeppain

Hi Deeppain,

The OM's W did call my W after I gave her the letter and tapes. The next day she called my W at work. She wanted to confirm a couple of things. My W appologized profusely. She did not accept nor did she reject the apology. That is the last we have ever heard from them and that was last August.

I on the other hand wanted to rip the guy appart. I threatened him both verbally and in writing. Not my smartest move. I wrote him an e-mail citing all the stuff he did, that he was a vile human being, and that he had an outstanding invoice with me that I was going to collect on it. He recieved that e-mail when he got to his desk just after me screaming at him in the parking lot. My W stayed in the office for a couple more hours to clean up her desk etc. She asked me what I wrote. He would not even look at her that morning, but told her that he did get an e-mail from me, but would not show it to her. She told me was petrified. She did not like that. I showed my W the e-mail that afternoon as she wanted to see it. In the end I did nothing, nor will I. I saw him the Monday morning after the Saturday that I found out everything in the parking lot in front of their office, after I heard him pleading for 3 hours with my W to keep the affair alive. I was not waiting for him but for my W as she was quitting. I did drive up to him and threatened him. I felt myself losing control and drove away. Honestly, I cried 1 min. later in the car. I was shaking. I wanted to hurt him so badly, and I had a severe internal battle within myself. I knew it was wrong to do so, but still wanted to.

It was not because he had relations with my W. My W was half responsible for that. He obviously was not my favorite person in the world, but it was more of what he did to keep it alive. This info did not come from my W, it came from the tapes, his words. In the end the reality is that he was in a fog as well.

Deeppain, if you would like an e-mail of the letter I sent his wife as a sample, you can e-mail at bill0021@hotmail.com and I will send it to you.

PTM.... I can so identify with your feelings.... although I never put myself in a position to be face to face, the same emotions coarsed through my veins.

Deep... something else to consider is as simple as going through your WW's pockets, jackets, etc. Her purse would be an easy target, as well. The telephone recorder was the key in my success. One other note. Depending on where you live, some of the newer wireless telephone systems (in home) can be used quite a ways from your residence. I caught a few calls by going "near home" at unexpected times, and when the phone was "in use" just push the button to include yourself in on the "conference" you just created. Remember to shut your car off, radio off, cell phone off and have no giveaway noises to give you away. I parked on the street behind my house and went unnoticed for about 2 weeks. My W wondered where the "other" phone went, and I just shrugged and "wondered" with her. You can interchange the phones every other day or so, and keep a fresh battery. That cost me NOTHING.

Also, listen to her VERY carefully when you interact with her. My WW occasionally threw up "clues" conversationally that gave me reason to look further into something she said. I didn't realize they were clues until after the fact, due to the fact I wasn't REALLY paying attention to some things she said.

Other than some time missed at work, I spent very little in my own detective work. Be creative, but get the evidence you need in the next 2-3 weeks, because every day the A goes on, the deeper the FOG will become.

One other note. Read and understand the FOG to the best of your ability. It will turn your W into someone you do not know, and cannot understand. The more you learn about a "proper" and effective confrontation will hopefully pop your W out of the fog more quickly than I was able to. And be prepared for setback, and protect yourself against LB and Disrespectful Judgements, because if you are NORMAL (LOL) those will come to the tip of your tongue much more quickly than the MB words and way to handle yourself. Trust me on that!!!

Time is of the essence for you, so proceed with premeditated haste, and you will hopefully find yourself in recovery soon.

Thank you Shattered dreams.....

I am gathering clues and she does things to upset me.....
She took a photo out of my wallet that she gave me when we were going out and it said " to My love, love forever " on the back.. That really hurt me that I ended up approaching her and asking her why she took it when i was looking at that phot a few hours earlier and I know it was their....she kept denying it and I I just replied that was cruel!!!!.
I know she took it b/c she would of made a big issue of it, I guess she was shocked i noticed....
We did not take to each other much this weekend.....

Thanks
Deep Pain