Hi,

my wife and I are together for 6 1/2 years and married for about 1 1/2 years. We recently decided to get a child. since my wife doesn't take birth control pills any more, frequency of sex increased a lot - it seems that hormons had hold her back from getting aroussed "properly". Ssex was the emotional need for me that had not been "addressed" properly then, but now it is almost more than enough. My problem is that I don't fulfill her conversational needs. From time to time, I get quieter until she complains in tears and I understand...

A month ago or so she wanted to chat in the internet. I showed her how and the first couple of times, we both sat together and chatted with others. One of them was "dreamboy". She continued to chat with him. When I came back from a business trip, she was chatting and kept on doing so. Although she spoke with me, her attention was clearly with "dreamboy". I looked at the screen and read that she wrote him she needed a lover. I asked her about that and she responded "This was not intended for your eyes!" Well of course not. My feelings went berserk. But I didn't know what to do - yell at her? 10 Minutes before I was determined to rip out the phone line or throw the modem out of the window, she came into the bedroom, aroused and we had sex.

Since I wasn't able to tell her, I wrote her an email about my bad feelings. She responded, it was her secret phantasy to have another man. A postcard she likes says "While satisfied with one if you can get two" and shows two man and a woman. I always thought she wanted to try to have sex with two men, but it seems to be that she wants two relationships.

I asked if she loved him. She said she didn't know but it were a very exciting feeling. and she might learn more about her desires. She said I shouldn't fret about it, she still loves me and wants a baby with me.

I tried to make up my mind about it. I was (and am) jealous, but do I need to? The giver asked: "if it pleases her - it pleases you." I told her I tried to tolerate it as long as it is not physical.

When I was on the next business trip I called her and she was all in tears. In an email she complained that I wouldn't talk enough to her.

The next time (yesterday) I came from another business trip, she was chatting (she chats about once or twice a week). I didn't wanted to read what they were writing about but I couldn't resist and catched two lines. It was about oral sex. She's always said she couldn't image given head to a man, so I never discussed that with her. In an instant, I became angry but I wanted to tolerate it so I set up headphones and tried to concentrate on the music.

I couldn't sleep properly, woke up, feel depressed, crying. In the morning, I hugged my wife until she got to go to work. Then I became angry, leaving the house the first time without my wedding ring. Instead of working, I browsed the internet and came across this site. By then I knew I couldn't really tolerate this online affair.

As far as I have read, it is almost a classic. I couldn't give her enough conversation in the past and chatting is exactly fulfilling her need. I know that I have to learn to talk to her more often, the room metapher in "Why women leave men" is quite interesting.

But what should I do now? I image that I apologize and that I promise to be me more talkative (and do it!) and suggest that she ends her relationship within a month if she still loves me. I can hardly avoid frequent business trips (while she works shifts), but when I am in our hometown, I will be at home earlier. Trying to establish the honest rule and the jointly agreement.
I also want to ask her to watch her chatting with dreamboy so I know what is happing because I asked her yesterday if she had cyber sex and she said no. which might be a lie (see oral sex).

Is that how it is meant to be?

Thanks in advance,
Erik

Your wife is having an emotional affair with this dreamboy. It’s just as serious if she was having these (sexual) conversations in person with another man. Cybersex is just as serious if she was having a PA. And in that case, you would you “suggest” that the relationship end in a month? No?

How would she feel if you did this? She would probably not tolerate it at all.

You can’t expect this chatting to continue and also for your marriage to work. So the solution is not to watch while she chats … the solution is the chatting must stop. And she won’t be able to wane herself off dreamboy over a month … she has to be willing to stop cold turkey.

Unless an open marriage / threesomes is something you both want, you need to take action to stop this. But that doesn’t include anger or demands. You need to be loving and also decisive.

Read about Plan A.

The process for recovery from an emotional affair and a physical affair are the same. One thing I will say is that is not mentioned below is that your wife needs some good female friends to talk to - you will not be able to fufill her conversational need 100%. Another thing that I experienced is that my wife did not think "lover" and "husband" could be the same, jsut because of the way she was raised. If your wife is in the same boat you will need to show her how you can be her lover - and from her perspective, this is not about the physical act of sex - it is about the emotional connection you have. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. Your situation is harder, but your chances of saving your marriage and actually making it better than before are still good. But, whether your spouse is "on board" or not, you should do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Hi and thanks for your answer,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cpx:
<strong>
Unless an open marriage / threesomes is something you both want, you need to take action to stop this. But that doesn’t include anger or demands. You need to be loving and also decisive.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know. Just let me tell you what happened yesterday evening and why I thought of not stopping this immediately.

Yesterday evening, I told her how I had felt the whole day, that I had been sad and angry and confused. And that I couldn't tolerate this online affair, opposed to what I thought a few days before.
She did not respond, may be because I said it in a bit playful way.

Later we checked her email because she had her birthday and expect some birthday mails. HE also wrote one. She didn't opened it until I said, why don't you open it, just go ahead and do it. She did and it was nothing spectaculus (best wishes, stay as you are, see you tuesday in the chat). She looked at me and said, why do you look angry. I told that I really meant what I said before. We just talk, she said.

Yeah, about oral sex, I said. Before that, she had said that I was good in writing and now I said that I could chat with her just like "dream boy". She said, true, but I must not know it's you because I can't talk to you about those things.

That was an important point. She (and I'm not much better) doesn't speak much about sex, or better: not enough. This has been coming clear to me during the last weeks but I did not mentioned it at that point, yet. I said, right, you are so quiet, I don't know if it pleases you where I touch you until your bodies gives real sign of pleasure. I know myself that it is easier to write about sex with a complete strange you don't than to speak face-to-face about it- although it should be the other way round.

We then talked openly about oral sex (beyond her usual "I can't imagine doing it"). Later we had good sex during which we talk as much as the last 3-4 times together.

And this is the point where I think this affair may help us in addition to the point that I see what I made wrong (and discovering this site). It is a stimulus to start an conversation about things we don't usually talk about. It is also something she said before: she may discover more about herself.

She also started to read the book "Wild Sex" (which is a very good book to read because it is written in a funny style so that it brings humour to that topic) and I wonder if this would have a similiar effect.

This is where I hesitate to say "stop immediately". In my current opinion it depends how emotionally involved she is. Is she in love with him or does she just like the conversation? Does she want to meet him in person? If she really is in love, things should stop right now. If she is not and just thinks "This is a nice guy, I can talk about things I don't dare to with my husband", why not see if we can get more stimuli from this? It has to end, that is for sure! No doubt about it.

It boils down to the question: where to draw the line. When is a person from the opposite sex a friend and when is it a lover? Physically that is easy to decide, but where exactly is the line emotionally? This is also the question my brain and my heart have different opinions to. My brain said "well she doesn't have intercourse, we might tolerate it" but my heart almost jumped out of my body.

I want to read what they chat about in order to decide how emotionally involved she is and in order to catch these stimuli that may arive. If I didn't speak with her about her chatting about oral sex, we wouldn't have discussed this sex talk matter. And I want to read it to know the truth about it. I thought I had the option "either you don't know anything about what they chat or you know everything. If you only know something you don't know for sure, you're getting it out of context and so on. You may get a false impression." But now I know I want to know it all.

Maybe you understand why I consider this an option. And don't forget: I don't feel less loved - except during the time she chats.

I will reread about Plan A.

Thanks,
Erik

Well I’m not sure if you are trolling or not; anyway:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by erikp:
<strong>And this is the point where I think this affair may help us in addition to the point that I see what I made wrong (and discovering this site). It is a stimulus to start an conversation about things we don't usually talk about. It is also something she said before: she may discover more about herself.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To each his own, I guess. If you encourage your wife to have affairs on-line because it's good for your marriage, don't be suprised when it starts happening for real.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by erikp:
<strong>It boils down to the question: where to draw the line. When is a person from the opposite sex a friend and when is it a lover? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would say when she is more open (about sex or whatever else) with OP than she is with you.

take care.