I cannot come to the decision that telling my husband about my As is a good thing to do.

What is wrong with me?

there is so much more i feel inside but i just cannot figure out how to put it in words. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

will I ever "get it?" will i ever give him a chance to totally know what's been up for me in order to give us an honest chance? why can't i accept that this is the only way.

because we are relating to each other better than we ever have at any point in our relationship of 22 years (married 17yrs). its so confusing.

all i can conclude is that i must not really love him, even though we are getting along so well. with everything i have read here, it seems like the answer is obvious. so what other answer can there be but i must not really love him and our relationship is doomed.

i'm feeling really discouraged here tonight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> which seems ridiculous because our love for each other seems stronger than it ever has been

Hello,

I don't think it means that you do not love him.
I think it means you do not respect him enough to be honest with him for fear that the relationship may break up and you will be alone. You are acting like your husband is a puppet and you are pulling all of the strings. If you respect your husband enough and respect yourself you would be honest with him. If the roles were reversed, would you not at the very least want your husband to show you the respect to you of being honest.

I guess it is all about you since you feel your husband should not have information about his own wife and his marriage so he could determine how he wishes to proceed in the future. In short, I think you love your husband but you love yourself more and are willing to continue to disrespect and humiliate him by withholding information that he has a right to know. Don't be afraid to tell him the truth and show him that you respect him enough to be honest and truthful. Do the right thing or otherwise your relationship and marriage is based on a foundation of lies and deceit. Is this what you really want?

Bryanp,

first thanks for the reply

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think it means you do not respect him enough to be honest with him for fear that the relationship may break up and you will be alone. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I don't think he would leave. In fact I am pretty much convinced he would not. I am confident in our relationship now, I know in my heart, he would not leave.

i had a really long post here that i just deleted. i don't think it would matter to anyone here. like one poster said, if i am looking for someone to understand here, and agree with my view, i am not going to find it.

i guess i keep reading here anyway because i do believe this is a great site, with much to learn. i am totally honest with him now about present day things. he never wanted to deal or hear about any feelings that were negative, it would just send him down a negative path. but he understands now that for me to hide anything, even negative feelings, just puts distance between us. and he has learned that having neg feelings at a point in time is not the same as not wanting to be in a relationship with him.

i have learned about his needs, to be told how important he is to me, to have his good points appreciated more and his bad points talked about more gently. and mostly, to have faith in him and our relationship, and to show him that faith by not going overboard on an issue. it is a struggle for me to keep my emotions from taking completely over my brain. a book called Feeling Good has helped a lot in that area. some good techniques there to keep my emotions from impacting my entire view on life. feelings are just about how you are feeling in a point in time.

we have had 7 straight weeks now where we have not allowed any problem to remain unresolved peacefully and lovingly, even those that we decided that we will not agree on but can understand each other's view. we started a necklace 7 weeks ago, one bead for everyday we remember our new commitment to each other, to not let anything start to pull us apart and to not hide any thought/feeling. for me when it is about my regret over having the affair, i approach that by saying how i regret that i got to a point where i 100% decided in my head/heart that we could not continue to be married. and i talk about how i continue to try to understand myself better as to why and how i could have gotten to that decision. and how i admire him for never getting there.

i do have respect for how he never got to that point. actually, i'm amazed that he never got to that point. after he did start to engage in our marriage again, it was a good 2yrs of an upward battle when i pushed him away as hard as i could (this is when the affair took place) and he refused to ever agree that we should get divorced. he would not let me convince him.

so we talk about things until we both feel we are understood and feelings accepted. in 5 more weeks i'll be able to start wearing the necklace.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If the roles were reversed, would you not at the very least want your husband to show you the respect to you of being honest.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">it seems like i may be the only person in the world to say this, but NO. if roles were reversed right now, i would seriously and 100% NOT want to know. If he found his way back, if it was 100% over and we were finally being successful like we are now, i would NOT want to know.

Everyone on this planet may believe that I am only doing this for selfish reasons and out of fear but I would rather fry in hell for all of eternity for keeping this secret than put him through the hell of having to deal with this.

i need to focus on taking what i can from here to continue to keep our marriage strong and to continue to grow on a personal level. there is a lot to learn here, we are each filling out he emotional questionere right now. i look forward to sharing that with each other. we are going to do it over a weekend get away trip we are having soon.

i would like to stay in this forum because surrounding yourself with people that care about their marriage this much is a very positive thing to do. it is just that there is so much talk here is focused on recovering from affairs. which makes sense since this as an "infidelity" board. maybe the emotional needs forum is more where i belong, because that is my focus. to learn his emotional needs as well as his LBs, to learn how to fullfill his needs and avoid his LBs, and to convy mine needs/LBs to him in a contstructive manner. but i also know I will always be in recovery from the As and i guess i do not want that to ever get away from me. I want to keep my marriage vows from this day forward till death due us part.

again, thank you for your reply

Hello,

I wish you the best. I guess that we will agree to disagree. This site is based on the concept of radical honesty. It is good that you are trying to make your marriage work and it is getting better. The problem is that you are engaging in lies of omission. Lies vs. honesty, openness vs deceit and respect vs. disrespect. These are the choices before you. It is a classic response of a WS to say they wish to withhold information from a betrayed spouse in an attempt to prevent them from feeling pain. This is a form of rationalization. You are his wife and not his mother. He is an adult and a husband and has a right to understand everything and deal with everything that is entailed within the marriage.

Again marriagebuilders is based on the concept of radical honesty and respect between married adults within a marriage. Lies of omission, deceit and dishonesty goes against the core of its concepts. I wish you the best and hope one day in the future you choose honesty in your marriage rather than choose honesty for a certain period of time in your marriage.

fair enough. i wish you the best too.

Dear Learning,
I wish you the best. I am very glad that I told my H everything, b/c I feel so much better inside. It was like I was lying every day b/c I was holding that back from him. It had such an effect on everything. And I can honestly say I love and admire him more every day just b/c of what I feel from him b/c he is working so hard to endure all this pain to keep me in his life. That is such a wonderful feeling. I honestly never felt such love, and it makes me love and cherish him more than I have in our 17 years of marriage. You can only do what you feel is best for you, it is not for me to judge anyone and their decisions. I can only say, the pain is horrible, what I see in him as he ponders through all this each day, but he has also said he feels "better" b/c he now knows for sure, something he has wondered, and now we deal with how to help him recover from all that pain. I wish you the best with your relationship. And I will also agree with you about the knowing---I have told my H that I don't think I would want to know it all either. Take care and good luck. My prayers are with you as well.

FL,

No one here can make you tell. You know that counselors do recommend that you NOT tell. But, the approach of the Harley's and sort of by definition is that HONESTY is required for a deep and meaningful relationship. You see they were/are not interested in just keeping people together, which NOT telling can do. But, in making the marriage so much better, deeper, sounder. That requires honesty.

Permit me to offer you an example.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">we have had 7 straight weeks now where we have not allowed any problem to remain unresolved peacefully and lovingly, even those that we decided that we will not agree on but can understand each other's view. we started a necklace 7 weeks ago, one bead for everyday we remember our new commitment to each other, to not let anything start to pull us apart and to not hide any thought/feeling. for me when it is about my regret over having the affair, i approach that by saying how i regret that i got to a point where i 100% decided in my head/heart that we could not continue to be married. and i talk about how i continue to try to understand myself better as to why and how i could have gotten to that decision. and how i admire him for never getting there.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You of course are NOT being honest or agreeing with what I put in quotes. You are hiding thoughts and feelings.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i do have respect for how he never got to that point. actually, i'm amazed that he never got to that point. after he did start to engage in our marriage again, it was a good 2yrs of an upward battle when i pushed him away as hard as i could (this is when the affair took place) and he refused to ever agree that we should get divorced. he would not let me convince him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For two years this man worked to save this marriage while you lied to him, pushed him away, and yet he would not be detered. Yet, you deny him the joy of know what he overcame. You deny him the realization of what he actually did. You deny him the deep understanding that you do respect him and are amazed that he perservered when you were enjoying another man.

How will you feel when you put that necklace on? Do you feel you will have earned it, truely? Here is the point that that Harley makes. You may have a marriage, but you will never have the deep marriage, because you cannot reveal to him something so fundamental as you truely and deeply respecting him for what he endured while you had your A. In his lifetime he may never have a finer moment, and he will not know what he did.

He will never know how much you feel for him because he will not know where you have come from.

Do you see what we are saying. You are robbing your H and yourself of the depth and intensity that this marriage could have. IT is truely ashame that you needed to have an affair to get to this point. But, interestingly he didn't need to be hit over the head with that hammer to do what he did. Yet, he will never get the credit or have the knowledge of how much you appreciate it. Because your words to him no matter how heartfelt on your part, will have no basis for him. Not a REAL basis, just that you felt like leaving the marriage. It was far worse than that FL.

It is your choice. I do hope you continue to learn things here. But, I do think you need to realize what this site is about. It is about building deep marriages where life is SHARED between partners.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"it seems like i may be the only person in the world to say this, but NO. if roles were reversed right now, i would seriously and 100% NOT want to know."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What if your H (or an acquaintance for that matter) told you that there are some things that he has done in the past but has not told you about them, would you then want to know? Even if your answer is 'no', the seed of doubt has been planted and it probably won't go away that easily from your conscious mind. You may be sincere in your answer but you won't know the true answer until you get to that bridge and cross it, will you?

Would you consider the idea of conveying to him that you have not been totally forthcoming about the past and seeing how he reacts? I ask you this because not all BS's want the gory details about their spouse's affair(s) [heck a lot are in your category of not wanting to know] and your H could be one of these BS. The point is that you are giving him the opportunity to learn the truth about your affairs while at the same time not ramming the truth down his throat without considering whether he wants to hear it or not. What do you think?

Werone04, thank you so much for replying. i can only imagine how much your life is in turmoil right now. thank you for taking time to respond to my post. I must say, i relate to you very much. we are married 17yrs too

I hope this next question do not seem mean, please know, that is not my intention. You say you feel so much better now that you have told him. But do you at all look at him and all the pain he is now feeling and think, but what have i done to him in the process??? i know, technically, it is the A that really causes the pain, not the telling him about it. but still...

I know what you mean about the effect having to hide the lies has on everything else. I know it has an effect on me too. I am stuck at the point where I am still thinking that this is my cross to bear and telling him will only force it on him and that just seems wrong. but on the down side, i don't think i really am dealing with it 100% ok.


JL, i can easily see your point. honesty can be the difference between just keeping our marriage together and making our marriage be a deep and meaningful relationship. and it is the latter that i really do want, for both of us.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But, interestingly he didn't need to be hit over the head with that hammer to do what he did. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">do you really believe that having an A is worse than deciding the marriage is over? I did not just say i feel like leaving. Seeing that I was 100% convinced that the marriage was over was a huge hammer for him. The realization that his life would change so dramatically was a huge hammer for him too. It was not just a passing statement. Nor was it a fog statement because that all came BEFORE that A started. He does feel the appreciation i feel towards him for not letting go even though i pushed him away so much.

i am not trying to convince you that what you say is not valid, because i know there is a lot of truth to what you say. but i don't think you really understand all that we have gone thru together these past 2 yrs, even while i was enjoying the company of another man. trust me, it was not as wonderful as you may think it must of been.

i just want to have the depth and intensity without him having to go thru all that pain.

and i can't help but to continue to ask myself, then why do you keep coming back to this board???

TMCM, you are right, i cannot completly know what i would say/feel if i were truely at that bridge of having doubts. although there was one instance of someone i was sure was attracted to my husband, this was many years ago, and he spent time after work with her and others that worked there too. i had some doubts then, and i asked him about it, and his response was questionable but in the end, two thoughts won out. 1) I really cannot see him ever doing something like that, i know that is a bad thing to believe cuz anyone can end up doing that but i just cannot imagine he would do that. 2) and this is the one that really mattered to me. If something did ever happen, it was not significant enough to result in him wanting to leave me. I never will know if something might have happened between those two. i am pretty sure she would have allowed something to happen. i can tell you, i don't care.

this may not be a normal view to have, maybe i had sex too early in my lifetime or something, maybe sex does not mean the same thing to me, maybe it is because my parents were so good at keeping us fed and in a nice home (i.e. tended to our physical needs) but did not invest any of their time in our lives to have a close relationship with us, maybe i have to re-evaluate what the act of sex is supposed to be.

but, for me, emotional abandonment, distancing yourself from your spouse and not really having any relationship with them, and refusing to work on the relationship, that is worse than having an A. I am sure i would forgive an affair much easier than it took me to forgive him for the years that our marriage was in such bad shape while he refused to acknowledge or work on it. i have read people describe how they felt when true forgiveness entered their heart and i could relate to that. i was not the BS in a physical A, but i needed to forgive him for the pain incurred while our marriage was in such bad shape. the day i could finally do that was so huge for me. and i literally told him that i was finally able to accept his apology, one he gave me very sincerly shortly after we first seperated.

and i need to add, i was also able to fogive because i managed to mature some and take back into consideration the part i played into the deterioration of our marriage.

well i find i have resorted to more rambling.

i am obviously still considering what you are all saying cuz what you are saying is still impacting me. at the same time, i don't mean to waste anyone's time.

TMCM, one final thing, to answer your question. i did find an opportunity to ask my H if he would really want to know. i was able to ask him safely because we were talking about another couple whose marriage ended cuz of the W having an A and then didn't even want to work on the marriage and she walked away. i told him my answer, that if he had found his way back to me, i would not want to konw. His answer, however, was he would want to know. i must admit, knowing that does bother me some, cuz i am not giving him / treating him the way he would want to be treated. and that is not the ideal way to treat a person you love. which just leads me back to my initial subject line... "do i really love him?"

<small>[ February 02, 2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

FL,

I guess you are just going to have to stay married to him and keep loving him the best you can to find out the answer to your question. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But, I think you are missing something your A was NOT just about sex was it? Your A was fun and it was something YOU wanted to do. You knew it was wrong, and you knew your H was doing his best, and yet...

Was it revenge FL? Or was it you just wanting what you wanted?

Whatever the reason, your H has said he wants to know if you had an A.

So the only issue is really timing isn't it?? You will have to because you already know what we are saying makes sense and is very likely right. You want the depth, you want the emotions, and the openness, and you only have a small window to do this, because eventually your H will want to go deeper and you will not. He will notice and then his desire to go deeper will wane as he withdraws.

You know these things don't FL?

Finally, I go back to your first comment on this thread </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "I cannot come to the decision that telling my husband about my As is a good thing to do. " </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So I ask are you confusing good with painless? Are you somehow hoping that you could tell and there would be no repercussions? I think you know there will be so where is the good in it? A reasonable question, but I hope that our posts have offered you an idea of why it is a good thing.

I understand that you state you wouldn't want to know, but I think that is a bit of the "fog" talking coupled with your uncertainity as to your level of comittment. You are not certain this is worth all of the pain and embarassement IF you are not certain that you love him or that this will work. Right??

So let me ask you something else. If you became certain that the marriage will make it, and that you loved your H would you tell then? I know it seems backwards but humor me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Would it be worth it if you KNEW that you would make it and that your H would forgive you? You see there is no doubt that it will hurt him, but it will also help him. It will take your marriage to a new level.

You see he already fears you might leave.
You see he already sense your reluctance in certain things.
You see he probably is asking himself if she truely does love he.

So where would telling him about the A change things? It would put your marriage on a honest level. He is already uncertain about many of the things an affair makes uncertain. You might as well bring in his ability to please you sexually as well. But ,really at this point the only and the main thing telling will do is... open up the marriage to honesty and change the level again.

He already knows you didn't love him and wanted to leave. Now he will know one of the reasons for his two years of hard labor to attempt to rebuild the marriage.

I think you are worrying more about yourself than hurting your H. You have already told him some very hurtful things and he responded. And you told him them because you honestly felt them, and I suspect that you could shield your parting shots in the veil of honesty. So now use the honesty productively, use it to free you, and put everything on the table.

That is my point. All of your points lead to one thing. He has already been hurt. He already knows you didn't love him, perhaps not even liked him, and maybe even hated him. He already knows you didn't desire him. So what is telling him about the A really going to do? It will hurt but probably not much more than what you have already said to him. It will change you however are you willing to change and face yourself and YOUR actions. He has had to face his, and from the sounds of it you made it pretty hard on him.

Think about this.

God Bless,

JL

PS: And there is this nagging point this is your THIRD affair. The other two cannot be blamed on how your H treated you or withdrew from you. However, I do think you second affair may have more to do with his behavior than you know or are willing to admit. I do think it is time to treat this differently than you have before, which clearly didn't work.

<small>[ February 02, 2004, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning:

TMCM, one final thing, to answer your question. i did find an opportunity to ask my H if he would really want to know. i was able to ask him safely because we were talking about another couple whose marriage ended cuz of the W having an A and then didn't even want to work on the marriage and she walked away. i told him my answer, that if he had found his way back to me, i would not want to konw. His answer, however, was he would want to know. i must admit, knowing that does bother me some, cuz i am not giving him / treating him the way he would want to be treated. and that is not the ideal way to treat a person you love. which just leads me back to my initial subject line... "do i really love him?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's understandable that you don't want to hurt your H with the truth about your affair but have you considered that you may be underestimating his emotional strength?

Harley says radical honestly is the key. I don't entirely believe that. It's hard for me to say whether I'd "want" to know (again). I suppose I would, but outwardly I have to say I wouldn't. I'm a BS first, then a WS. I haven't confessed. I didn't want to for years, and more than one proffesional recommended I keep my secret (serious mental problems involved). This made it easy to keep my secret. But... even though I don't, and have never felt guilty about it (revenge it was, wrong, bad and stupid but thats all it was), it's become a matter of honor and principle to me. Now, years later, it's a heavy weight that only gets heavier. The longer I wait, the less inclined I am to confess granted I ever "get the green light" so to speak. Damn how I wish I'd spit it out years ago.

Don't know your story, but please, give it some thought.

As for loving your husband? Well, based on what I've seen, I don't think you can see the forest for the trees to be honest.

Just sayin.

M.

<small>[ February 04, 2004, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

I cannot say whether or not you should tell. I mean for your own good, it seems to be eating at you. IT's either you let years go by and go deep into deppression which could ruin your marriage to start with.. well.. think about that. IT's not doing you much good keeping the secret.. you obviously love your husband to think about it and tell him. I think it will do you both good.. and you personality just for your sanity!

I am a BS and my husband confessed and if he didn't.. I think our marriage would have ended quietly and that would be more pain because I'd still wonder...WHY!

Anyways good luck to you.. and yours..

Just spit it out: Just say like its nothing coming out of your mouth.. then your husband will react, but infidelity do not end marriages.