I don't know if i am doing this right, but here goes. For the past few months WH has been having an EA with my supposed best friend. They refused to stop even when I found emails and secret phone conversations. They claimed to be "just friends" and having private conversations that were none of my business. WH even crashed his email server at work to protect these emails! And he also made me feel guilty and ashamed for beig suspicious. At the end of November he claimed to love both me and OW, and showed me a Polymory site on the Internet. I didn't take that well. I have been with him since I was 16, and I thought we were soul mates and best friends and life partners.

Anyway, inadvertantly I used LB and got angry and demanded that he stop. By the middle of December they were having PA every chance they could get alone. At the end of December, the 31st, he went to the hospital with a mental breakdown and accute depression. While in the emergency room, he confessed the PA to me, after he had already told his mother, who was there also. He stayed at a halfway house for 5 days, then moved to his parents' house. Now he has an apartment a couple blocks away. So I am selling our hot tub and van to pay for this expense. The apartment is close for the boys' sake. They are 12 and 11, and I worry what he is teaching them about marriage, commmitment, and hurting so deeply people you love.

Now he says that in hindsight, he sees that he has not ever loved me, only as a friend. Until he fell in love with OW, he didn't realize what true love was, and now he knows he never had that with me. So, I have been betrayed, left, and now not only does he not want to come back to this marriage and family life he had, he has never even loved me at all! People used to comment on how in love we seemed, holding hands and cuddling. He always told me that he would love me forever, he couldn't live without me, I would be the only woman he ever loved, that we were perfect for each other.

I asked him why he lied to me and led me on all these years if he didn't love me. He said he didn't realize he was doing that until after the A happened, and he can now see his past so clearly. He says he is now finally having the courage to stand up for himself and doing things to change his life to make himself happy.

We live in a small community, and the OW son is in WH Scout patrol. We also live close to each other and our kids go to school together. We used to do a lot together. Unfortunately, when I found one particular email, my children heard me call her Husband Stealer. And in front of them, while we were all crying, I asked him to choose between her and us - he chose us in front of the boys - then later told me he had never hated me as much as he did at that moment (for saying that in front of our kids). And of course he couldn't give her up.

I don't know what is going on with the situation. I get very little information. The OW is worried people will find out in our small community, and I think she has pulled away a little, but they still communicate regularly. He claims that they are just "friends" and that he didn't do anything wrong except the last 2 weeks with the PA. He doesn't consider all the other stuff EA, just honest communication with a friend.

We see a MT in 8 days. He calls it a relationship therapist because he just wants us to be able to talk in the same room again, for the boys. He does not want this marriage. He has not filed for divorce. I almost think he took it to the PA to get me mad enough to do it for him. Even though he claims one of the reasons he has been disatisified with our union is because he didn't make any decisions. We have agreed to wait 6 months, supposedly celebate - he agreed - before we decide what to do.

I sent him the link to this site and he told me to stop thinking he was broken and needed fixing. That the A is not the issue - our marriage that was not working is the issue. He says we got married for all the wrong reasons. I said maybe we did, but we did get married, and for me that is for life. He said this is just not what he wants anymore, he never loved me, and that too much damage has been done to repair it - how can there be anything with no trust? I said I didn't know, but I have been reading a lot about A and that not only can couples reconcile, they often can have a better marriage beyond their wildest dreams. He is not interested.

Today he told me that he is at a crossroads, and that he must choose a path and he doesn't want to go down either. I have no idea what that means. It doesn't sound good to me. He thinks the OW is his best friend, along with me, and he refuses to even discuss having her out of his life. For a while, he even wanted me to be her friend again because she missed me so much! She takes no accountability for this at all, and he takes very little. I think there are still things he hasn't told me, and I don't know if the OW will let him. She is very scared for herself.

Does anyone have anything uplifing to say to me? I do not want a divorce. My mother was married 5 times, and WH asked me to marry him several times before I said yes because I believed marriage was bull, because what does it mean to make a life commitment, then end it when you are not happy??? And he assured me that would not happen. And it did. I have been told my expectations are too high for marriage. Maybe they are.

I will welcome any feedback. It's such a long, convoluted story, that I welcome clarifying questions as I'm sure I have left out details.

Amy,

Sorry to see you here, but you have found a good place for support and advice. You feel that the bottom has dropped out of your life and justifiably so.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> They claimed to be "just friends" and having private conversations that were none of my business </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Now he says that in hindsight, he sees that he has not ever loved me, only as a friend. Until he fell in love with OW, he didn't realize what true love was, and now he knows he never had that with me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> For a while, he even wanted me to be her friend again because she missed me so much! She takes no accountability for this at all, and he takes very little. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The above quotes to illustrate that your situation is not new or unique, this is classic WS babble, textbook stuff. They are reading right from the infidelity script. The good news here is that once you know what to expect, you can teach yourself how to react.

As a start you will have to educate yourself. Start by reading the information on this site. Get yourself a couple of good books to study so you can understand the process of the affair. I can recommend "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Surviving an affair", both by Dr. Harley and available from the MB bookstore or other big vendors like Amazon.

I hesitate to give advice, because I feel that more experienced members or profesionals can help you better. I can tell you a few don'ts however.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And in front of them, while we were all crying, I asked him to choose between her and us - he chose us in front of the boys - then later told me he had never hated me as much as he did at that moment (for saying that in front of our kids). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Big no-no! Major LB. Bad mistake, as you perhaps realized. He cannot choose and you cannot force him to choose you. He will say whatever is needed to defuse the situation and then renege on it without any remorse, plus he will blame you for putting him in a bad light. Also, do not ever use children as a weapon in this war!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I sent him the link to this site and he told me to stop thinking he was broken and needed fixing </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another mistake - WS cannot and will not be "educated" unless they are willing to commit themselves to restoring the marriage.

You have to realise that the only person that you can change is you, you cannot force WH to change.

So, get with the reading and study your situation and see whether you can apply Plan A. This plan is not to be a doormat to your WH but in essence to avoid LBs and meet whatever needs you can, without expecting anything in return. The aim is to build up love bank deposits and so influence the WH to either break off the affair or to return to you once the affair burns out.

Then last, but not least - expose the affair to daylight. If OW is married, her husband has to be told. Enlist all and everybody's support to defuse it. The smaller the town, the better in this case. Once the secrecy is out of an affair, the sordidness will start to destroy the "special" relationship.

I wish you all of the best and God Bless

Amy Maree welcome to Marriage Builders. You are to be commended for trying to save your family and you marriage. Here you will not only find some of the best information on how to save your marriage but a support group of people that are going through (or have gone through) your ordeal.

Your H is in what we refer to as 'the fog' because he obviously cannot see the harm that he is doing to you, his kids, and to himself. I don't know if you've read the following book but if you haven't I highly recommend that you read 'Surviving An Affair' by Dr Willard Harley as well as Dr Harley's What Are Plan A And Plan B.

At times you may ask yourself 'Why am I doing this?' and feel hopeless about the situation but while there is no guarantee that even with your best efforts you will be able to save your marriage, you can definitely count on that you will better off for having done your best. You are not alone.

Thank you for your wisdom and frankness, ClearSkies. I of course did not mean to put my children in that situation. Who can ever prepare themselves for that? I totally freaked out. It was not the only time, but I didn't do it in front of my children again. I have ordered the books that were suggested by you and TOOMuchCoffeeMan, I have been to other websites to educate myself about this A. And this is the first that has consistent language and respectful speaking. I cannot enroll in my anger. I cannot live like that. I have to be strong and stable for my children, since their father is unable at this point to see beyond the end of his nose. It gives me hope and strength to know that I am not the only one to have to live through all of this non-reality silly talk. These two are the only ones in the situation who do not see what they are doing. It really blows my mind. But I realize it is a process, and until he comes out the other side, he won't see where he is.

I have read about Plans A and B, but I am confused. He refuses to not see her anymore for two reasons. First, because she is his friend, and he will never let go of a friend, especially since she's not my friend anymore, he doesn't want to leave her friendless. Waa. Second, because her son is in his Scout patrol, and he refuses to change Troops (as I have suggested), and she refuses to make her son move or quit because she doesn't think she has done anything wrong. So I'm not sure how to implement anything. Hopefully the books I ordered "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs, Her Needs" will give me more direction with that. As it is now, I have told him that he can see his boys whenever, I will be there for him as a friend, because he can't talk to anyone about this because he is ashamed (but won't admit it), and he is very depressed. But the things he says to me hurt me so bad, we are pretty much reduced to communicating through email. Any suggestions on what I should be doing differently in this area?

We are both on anti-depressants from our doctor, and I am also on anti-anxiety - Thank God! Literally, I pray all the time and have found great comfort in that, and the medication has helped immensely. I highly recommend seeing your doctor if you feel totally out of control. I am much calmer, and able to be more proactive rather than reactive.

Anyway, I look forward to getting some helpful advice from tried-and-true methods, not just well-meaning friends. I want to become an expert in the subject, so that I never have to go through this pain again, whether it is with WH or somebody else down the road.

Again, thank you all for your time and interest. I finally feel like I have a tether to keep me in the boat on this wild ride I have found myself on so unexpectedly.

Just friends he says!!

Dr. Shirley Glass named her excellent book on affiars "Not Just Friends". There is a good reason for that name.

Read the above book as well as Harley's Surviving and Affair.

You husband is very confused.

Good morning Amy,

Sorry, I did not mean to whack you about the kids, just wanted to make the point. I do understand that emotions get out of hand, especially in the beginning. Freaking out is normal!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have read about Plans A and B, but I am confused. He refuses to not see her anymore for two reasons. First, because she is his friend, and he will never let go of a friend, especially since she's not my friend anymore, he doesn't want to leave her friendless. Waa. Second, because her son is in his Scout patrol, and he refuses to change Troops (as I have suggested), and she refuses to make her son move or quit because she doesn't think she has done anything wrong. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yip, “fog” babble at its best. The object of Plan A and, if necessary Plan B, is to separate the WS from the affair. This will not happen overnight, it takes time. The interesting thing is that you as a person becomes stronger and better through execution of these plans, it does not change the spouse. In the event that the marriage fails, and this always remain a possibility, you can move on as a whole person with the knowledge that you have done your best.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We are both on anti-depressants from our doctor, and I am also on anti-anxiety - Thank God! Literally, I pray all the time and have found great comfort in that, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good, very few people can handle the emotional ups and downs without ADs. Faith also is a strong support to most people.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Anyway, I look forward to getting some helpful advice from tried-and-true methods, not just well-meaning friends. I want to become an expert in the subject, so that I never have to go through this pain again, whether it is with WH or somebody else down the road.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That’s the stuff! You are doing extremely well Amy and your attitude is not only admirable, but also right on the money.

A few questions, so that board members can understand better:

Is the OW married?
How long have you been married and is it the 1st marriage for both you and WS?
Do you work or are you at home?
Hopefully there is no abuse in the M
Any alcohol, gambling or other addictions involved?

When you read SAA you will see that Harley recommends exposing the affair. This is very important. Your WH will react very negatively to this, but this is a step that has to be done. This is not a love buster (LB) but a necessity.

Keep reading and posting. TMCM is one of the old timers here and gives good advice. There are a number of others that have been around a long time and reading their postings will give you a lot of insight. Remember that both BS and WS post and sometimes a question to a FWS can help you understand the mindset of your WH.

Good luck and God Bless,

CS

CS -
The OW is not married. She runs her own daycare business out of her home, a single mother of two, and she is concerned that if this gets out, she will lose her livelihood. I have compassion for her two children, and I don't want their lives affected by her poor choices. Also, WH has told me that if I spread these "lies" about them, that he will tell everyone that he lied to me, he never slept with her (he denies the EA, just "honest communication between friends"), and that he just told me that to get me to leave him. And he has threatened to "destroy me." He has told me that same thing 2 times in the past week, so I'm wondering if she is putting pressure on him to shut me up. I have sent her an email threatening to call her mother, and tell her that while she is watching her daughter's kids for her on the weekends, her daughter is sleeping with a MM. I have also threatened to tell the people at Scouts, because our kids are in the same Troop. I told WH that I thought he should step down as leader, since he has slept with his Patrol Leader's mother, and he is not Morally Straight and Loyal and Honest and a host of other Scout Laws (I was a Den mother for several years). He says that he and she are there for the kids, not each other, and that he hasn't done anything to affect his leadership - he hasn't molested a kid. Now WH and OW have banded together, and she emailed me yesterday and said, "Haven't you been listening to your H? There was no A. You have blown everything out of proportion." So, I am torn about exposing it to the next level. Several of our friends know, and the kids' teachers, and WH mother knows.
This is the first marriage for both of us. I have been with him since I was 16, and he was 18. And we had kids shortly after. WH was in the military, and I thought if we survived young parenthood, being poor, and the Army life we could survive anything. Now we have a nice house, WH has a great job, we have great friends, and look what he does! I know that obviously his EN were not being met by me, but he won't even talk about any of that right now. He is convinced that we were married for the wrong reasons, he has no love except friendship for me (he says I am his best friend ever - followed only by the OW), and sees no way this could ever work out, that too much damage has been done.
I quit a good job about 4 months ago because I was not personally fulfilled, and he encouraged me to do so because he wanted me to be happy - what happened to that guy??? Anyway, of course right around the time that things got really bad around here, around the holidays, I started my own Personal Chef business. Not the best timing, but I had great opportunity and it has been a dream of mine. So I have struggled with that. WH and I decided long ago that my first priority was the kids, so my life thus far has been happily dedicated to being here before and after school, homework, making dinner, and the neighborhood plays over here because it is safe and fun. If we get a D, that will have to change because I will have to earn more money. He will not want to give us all his money every month, although he is convinced that "nothing has to change, we won't lose anything (except H and father), and still be a family."
The man is so in the fog. That is a great term. I was wondering why sometimes I get the defensive, resentment, anger, justification; and then I get the guilt, sadness, confusion. He claims to fluctuate hourly between his feelings, like a giant pendulum. Speaking of which, is there anything important about acting differently or saying anything differently in those short periods they are not in the fog? I have noticed they can pop back in as soon as defenses are raised. Is that a key? Trying to keep defenses down using Plan A?
I can't wait to get the books I ordered. They should be here by the end of the week.
There is no abuse or addiction, although I have noticed his accumulation of internet porn grow over the past several years. And a lot of his communication with her was email. He works on the computer all day and night - not playing, working. I have wondered if there is an Internet addiction going on here, too. That is where the EA started, I believe.
Do you know if there is any correlation between how close a couple has been in the past, the type of person the WS was, and recovery from the dreaded fog? Everyone around me, including me and our boys, are absolutely shocked. WH is the type of man that NOBODY thought would do this. Maybe that is the way with all WS. I just do not know.
Anyway, thanks again for the guidance and listening ear - or reading eye. This has given me peace, and something proactive to do, for the first time in months. God is truly carrying me though this time of greatest pain in my life. I am blessed. "For when I am weak, then I am strong" 2 Corinthians 12:10

CS -
The OW is not married. She runs her own daycare business out of her home, a single mother of two, and she is concerned that if this gets out, she will lose her livelihood. I have compassion for her two children, and I don't want their lives affected by her poor choices. Also, WH has told me that if I spread these "lies" about them, that he will tell everyone that he lied to me, he never slept with her (he denies the EA, just "honest communication between friends"), and that he just told me that to get me to leave him. And he has threatened to "destroy me." He has told me that same thing 2 times in the past week, so I'm wondering if she is putting pressure on him to shut me up. I have sent her an email threatening to call her mother, and tell her that while she is watching her daughter's kids for her on the weekends, her daughter is sleeping with a MM. I have also threatened to tell the people at Scouts, because our kids are in the same Troop. I told WH that I thought he should step down as leader, since he has slept with his Patrol Leader's mother, and he is not Morally Straight and Loyal and Honest and a host of other Scout Laws (I was a Den mother for several years). He says that he and she are there for the kids, not each other, and that he hasn't done anything to affect his leadership - he hasn't molested a kid. Now WH and OW have banded together, and she emailed me yesterday and said, "Haven't you been listening to your H? There was no A. You have blown everything out of proportion." So, I am torn about exposing it to the next level. Several of our friends know, and the kids' teachers, and WH mother knows.
This is the first marriage for both of us. I have been with him since I was 16, and he was 18. And we had kids shortly after. WH was in the military, and I thought if we survived young parenthood, being poor, and the Army life we could survive anything. Now we have a nice house, WH has a great job, we have great friends, and look what he does! I know that obviously his EN were not being met by me, but he won't even talk about any of that right now. He is convinced that we were married for the wrong reasons, he has no love except friendship for me (he says I am his best friend ever - followed only by the OW), and sees no way this could ever work out, that too much damage has been done.
I quit a good job about 4 months ago because I was not personally fulfilled, and he encouraged me to do so because he wanted me to be happy - what happened to that guy??? Anyway, of course right around the time that things got really bad around here, around the holidays, I started my own Personal Chef business. Not the best timing, but I had great opportunity and it has been a dream of mine. So I have struggled with that. WH and I decided long ago that my first priority was the kids, so my life thus far has been happily dedicated to being here before and after school, homework, making dinner, and the neighborhood plays over here because it is safe and fun. If we get a D, that will have to change because I will have to earn more money. He will not want to give us all his money every month, although he is convinced that "nothing has to change, we won't lose anything (except H and father), and still be a family."
The man is so in the fog. That is a great term. I was wondering why sometimes I get the defensive, resentment, anger, justification; and then I get the guilt, sadness, confusion. He claims to fluctuate hourly between his feelings, like a giant pendulum. Speaking of which, is there anything important about acting differently or saying anything differently in those short periods they are not in the fog? I have noticed they can pop back in as soon as defenses are raised. Is that a key? Trying to keep defenses down using Plan A?
I can't wait to get the books I ordered. They should be here by the end of the week.
There is no abuse or addiction, although I have noticed his accumulation of internet porn grow over the past several years. And a lot of his communication with her was email. He works on the computer all day and night - not playing, working. I have wondered if there is an Internet addiction going on here, too. That is where the EA started, I believe.
Do you know if there is any correlation between how close a couple has been in the past, the type of person the WS was, and recovery from the dreaded fog? Everyone around me, including me and our boys, are absolutely shocked. WH is the type of man that NOBODY thought would do this. Maybe that is the way with all WS. I just do not know.
Anyway, thanks again for the guidance and listening ear - or reading eye. This has given me peace, and something proactive to do, for the first time in months. God is truly carrying me though this time of greatest pain in my life. I am blessed. "For when I am weak, then I am strong" 2 Corinthians 12:10

Hi Amy,

Sorry, but duties call. I will do a proper answer on Friday.

In the meantime, hang in there.

GB
CS

<<<< and bump so it does not disappear off the page >>>>

All communication with him is so difficult. I never know which WS I am talking to - the guy I know who feels guilty and wants to release to me, or the one who is in the fog and thinks I'm a putz trying to destroy his happiness.
Last night I went to a Comedy Club with the girls, and on my way there I dropped the boys off at his place. He agreed to bring them to my house and put them to bed and hang out until I got home. I didn't call and tell him I was on my way home, and when I got home he was already gone! So I drove by his apartment, which is only a couple of blocks from my house (and OW house, BTW), and his car was out front and the lights were on. I had a sudden thought of, "How do I know he is in there? Maybe he took a walk/run to her house." So when I got home I called him. He was running. He claimed to be by our house, but he didn't mention me driving by 3 times! So, I think his close proximity apartment was not so much for the boys as for easy access to her house at night after her kids go to bed. Oh well. He was in the fog last night. I told him I was hoping he would have stayed so we could talk. He said when we talk we fight. But last Saturday he was telling me that he wanted to talk to me about his feelings and tell me some things that he feels badly about. Not anymore.
He told me last night he intends to take the full 6 months to figure out his feelings. Last night and this morning I am feeling like why bother. Why do I want to be with a man who can treat me and his kids so poorly, put us all through so much pain, and not even notice most of the time? Why do I want to be with someone who is apparently so afraid of conflict that he has an A rather than communicate to me about his needs? And he still won't tell me about his needs! He doesn't even think she is meeting his needs - he just thinks he "fell" in love with her. He even mentioned some nonsense about cupid's arrow. Good grief! I'll tell him about cupid's arrow! Yeah, I'm sure he looks really attractive to her now that he has a great job and works here in town and has money. But I was with him with 2 babies (12 months 12 days apart), no money, he traveled in the Army all the time, we moved everywhere. Would she do any of that with him? I bet not. I am venting.
I think that if he bails on our MT session this comig Tuesday, I am going to Plan B. If he goes and doesn't like it and doesn't want to go again, I am going to Plan B. I know he is using us both to meet his EN. When he doesn't have contact with her for a day or two, I get more communication from him, he wants to talk, he calls himself a jerk, doesn't know what the future will hold for us. But when he has been with her (this is what I think, I don't have a PI or anything) I get the fog. This whole thing just sucks. He has added so much more crap on top of what we already have to work on, it seems overwhelming. If I ever get him to turn back to me and give her up, will I even want him back?
This is actually the second time he has broken the same vow of fidelity. The first time was different - it was a prostitute in Korea. He was a very religious person before he went there, and he took his buddies home all the time when they got drunk, because WS didn't drink. Then one night he did, he says they paid for it, and he did it. He told me before he came home, said it was aweful, and would never do it again. That was easier, because he was sorry, he wanted me to take him back, it was one time, and there was no emotional attachment.
Now, he doesn't even think he ever loved me - was ever in love with me. He thinks he married his best friend, and until he "fell" in love with her, he didn't know that. Now he does, and it's just not good enough for him anymore. As if having an A wasn't bad enough - he has to add insult to injury. How can that happen from someone who just 6 months ago told me I was his one and only, his soul mate, the only woman he could ever love? He remembers our entire relationship and past differently now. And it all seems so familiar to him when he tells me about it - like him and OW have talked about it for hours. It's all news to me.
Anyway, I am going to go see if I can get some more rest before my boys get up for school and my day starts. Thanks to all who read these things. I know it is all the same. Different, but the same. And it still hurts.

I am so confused. WS contacted me today to apologize for his behavior to me on the phone last night. Says he wants to communicate with me, but doesn't know how to effectively. Now he says his feelings just recently changed to no love of me, that the rest of our marriage he did love me. He tells so many different versions.

What am I searching for? He has admitted all 4 times they slept together. He still won't admit the EA that happened for a few months before that. He claims to have given me all the information I have requested, and says that he is telling me the truth about his feelings as he experiences them.

What do I want from him? Does anyone have any insight for me? He says he cannot come back because he does respect me as a friend, and as a friend he wouldn't let someone that has hurt me as badly as he has near me - so he cannot let himself be near me or anyone else because he just causes pain. He said nice guys never finish first, and eventually they are corrupted so that others don't feel bad being around nice guys. Does that make sense? Any WS out there?

But he will not file divorce papers. I told him I wouldn't, because I don't believe in them. But that I want him to be happy, and if that will make him happy, I will not stop him. I also told him to tell me if I should cancel our MT Tuesdy since he knows how I feel, I know how he feels, and that we should only go if he feels hope that we can make this work. If he feels no hope, it is a waste of time and money. And my hopes.

He says he is an empty shell of the man I knew. He doesn't deserve to be with anybody. That he is a horrible person. And he knows he does not want to come home, be my husband, but won't file. Any help?

Oh yeah, he also told me today that him and the OW don't talk constantly anymore. That since he moved out, she has pulled away from him and been seeing one of her old boyfriends (like I told him she was! And he said, "No, she isn't talking to him anymore." - Yeah right!). Which made me feel a little better. At least he is as unhappy as I am now, unrequited love and whatnot. Now he says he has nobody to rely on who don't have hidden agendas. His kids are the only ones in his life that just want him to be happy, don't want anything from him. I have offered, but he doesn't trust me. Strange, he did 6 months ago . . .

Is this typical fog crap, or is he for real? Does anyone know? This is what he sent me in an email this morning. Of course, he sees the affair as just a catalyist to his figuring this out, not an issue in itself.

"I have tried to be honest with you every step of the way in our lives together. I have always told you how I thought I felt and if it was eve a lie it was because I was lying to myself, not to you. I convinced myself completely that I felt ways that I didn’t because I was scared. I realize that now. At the time I did not. Back then I had no self esteem when it came to women, and so the first one that actually was interested in me, I clinged onto and was going to do whatever I could to keep her, because I would not get another chance. I was so scared of not having the perfect family and perfect wife and perfect lifestyle that I forced myself to generate a likeness that would build that. But as much as I enjoyed many of the times we had, it was not me. I chose not to choose anymore way back then and emotionally shut myself down even though I thought I was feeling emotions. My defensive mechanisms kept me from realizing it, because to fill the void I kept busy. We both did. We kept so busy we couldn’t see straight, if it wasn’t the Military, it was School or working long hours. But I have forced myself to move so fast to avoid the issue for so many years that I completely forgot who I was. I let my logic and reason run my life and it kept my emotions in check by overworking myself. I almost noticed it when I did Impact. When I told you I felt this black hole in my chest and that I could not feel any emotions. Well I was partially right. I think the emotions were not there that I convinced myself that they were. That scared me back into getting busy and avoiding the issue. And I did a good job of it these past 10 years. But it has resurfaced, and for the first time I am realizing what it is. With my counselor I am just starting to revisit myself and starting to look inside and see who I really am and try to find out why I have been hiding all these years and break those walls down.
So if I seem different it is because I am. What that really means and where I go from here, I am not sure of. That will take time to figure out. Right now I don’t feel we should be together, because I at least did it for the wrong reasons. You were right to give me that stuff back. I did it to make you happy not because I wanted to give them to you.
I really am not trying to make you mad or sad, or throw any blame around. I made the choice to stop choosing in an attempt to make the relationship work. Who’s to say it would or would not have worked if I had kept my choices. There is not point thinking about what could have been since it’s just a waste of time.
So hopefully this clears up my “lying” about how I feel and hopefully we can have a good discussion on Tuesday. I sure it will get quite heated, but I think we need to confront the issues."

Tuesday being our counseling appointment together. HELP! I am losing all love/respect/caring/anything else I ever had for this man. I am totally wondering why I even bother! Ahhhahahahahahahahhhahahahhahah

Hi Amy-Marie,

I don't post often anymore, but your story has touched something.

Reading your posts, your H sounds exactly like mine did in the beginning of our mess. Some hope, we are still together, and he moved out and he wanted a D. He put the OW and himself before his son and everything else. Until he takes responsibility for his A, he is going to come up with every excuse in the book to blame it on this or that. He is in the fog. I'll bet you anything the OW does not know he's e-mailing you. I don't know, but reading what you've said I think he's torn and things are hitting him.

Are you seeing an IC yourself? It might be a good idea. It helped me alot. He has moved out right? Maybe, you should start plan B'ing. Set up visitations with the kids on weekends. He wanted out, let him see what it's like to really be a part-time father and don't let him come over whenever he wants. If he wants to keep the appointment with the MC, keep it with him. WS are great manipulators, mine had me convinced I was crazy, how could I think such things about him, he only wanted out of the M and I would always be his best friend no matter what. In hindsight I think he was going through an early mid-life crisis. Your story sounds like mine, everyone thought we were a great couple, we were so in love etc. It hurts when your spouse tells you he never really loved you, when the past says something totally different. Remember, he's in the fog and they don't think straight when they are there. They say things that they think they mean and if things do work out for you, he will tell you that eventually. My H now says all of the things that he said to me he didn't mean. If the OW is starting to pull away, he may start opening up more to you to talk. Let him talk to you, listen to what he has to say without LB'ing.

take care

Thanks for posting, HearBroken. I don't even know why I listen to his nonesense, because even if he truly does feel the way he says he does, there is nothing I can do about it. I can only control myself. I have a great support system of friends, and he does not. I am going to use my support system, and improve myself and get some things done around here that I want to do! I am reading tons of books, and I read the stories here and get comfort and insight. Please know how greatful I am that you posted to my story. You gave me the hope that I was searching for. Hope comes and goes for me, as does my sanity, from day to day. I know you know what I mean.

Again, thank you, and God Bless. I am so happy that you and your spouse have turned this corner and are moving down a better path together. I pray that can be me and my WH some day.

amymaree-
Hang in there and don't give up. Start in Plan A. It is very difficult to do at first until you get the hang of it. Hopefully you can stay in Plan A for a couple of months, so you can show your H that he has a nice marriage to come back to.

Then you can go to Plan B. But first a good Plan A is important. I went straight to Plan B because I didn't find this site in time. But that is not the right way to do it.

WS's usually rewrite the history of the marriage to justify their betrayal. They are just like addicts, except their drug is OP. It is very painful to watch, but usually they come back to marriage.

My H is still with OW, but my days are mostly good now. Stay here and keep reading and posting and you will be fine before you know it.

Beleiver -

I have seen your posts on the site, and I think you give good advice. I have been Plan A'ing for about 3 weeks, with few LB's. It seems like he takes advantage of me, though. That he takes the opportunty to tell me how unhappy he has been all these years. He doesn't even want to talk about ENs, because he thinks he is a totally different person than he was. He claims to have never loved me. Never truly meant everything he said to me - all commitments and promises are null and void because he was making them while being "another person." I just don't feel like he is giving me anything to work with, anything to hope for.

I don't know why he hasn't just filed for D. If all of this is true, why drag it out 6 months? That is the timeframe we agreed to. In a way I think he wants his cake and eat it too. He wants to still have us both available to him, he doesn't want to make the decision of one or the other.

Many other people post about their WS still wanting sex and waffling about coming home. Mine doesn't do that at all. He really thought he was in love with the OW, and that is why he had sex with her. I told him he should have D me first, and he said that he knew, that that was his mistake. Like, his only mistake. Dumb a@#! Anyway, is it unusual that he doesn't want any of that with me? That he doesn't waffle at all? When the PA was going on, and I thought it was only an EA, and we were intimate, it was bad. And I caught an email he sent her saying that "now I know what it is like to have sex just to have sex - it was horrible." And it truly was, but that is how emotionally attached he is to her, and unattached to me. I think they were to the Soul Mate stage of the EA as in the book "Surviving an Affair." My path is long and hard. I am looking for a sign of hope each day, to keep going on and being positive and trying to give him a reason to want to come home. Even though some days now I am wondering why I should bother hoping and keeping my heart open to more hurt - for someone who has totally deserted me.

Anyway, thanks for your words. I am doing my best and reading and posting and hoping some day soon I will feel OK.

Amymaree-
Mine stopped having sex with me last March. I thought it was because he was depressed. Little did I know he had OW. So it has been a long, dry year.

When I found out in July, he disappeared for 3 months. He completely abandoned me, no money, nothing. So don't give up hope. Do your Plan A as long as possible, and then time for Plan B.

One thing about Plan B is that you get stronger and detached from WS. It has been great for me. Right after D-day I was a basket case, couldn't eat, sleep, and could hardly go to work.

Your H is right, he is a completely different person - in whacko fogland. My H has always been the most kindest, caring, truthful man. Overnight he turned into a cold, calculating, liar.

Believer -

I am currently reading "After the Affair," and it is giving me insight into his world right now. I am hoping that in time, he is going to come out of his fog. I am greatful that he doesn't drink or do drugs, as I think that hinders the healing/personal discovery process. I thought I read in one of your other posts to someone that your WH came home a while ago drunk, and was sleeping it off. Do you think that has perpetuated his fog? That is why I went to the doctor and got meds, because I felt like if I went to the bottle, I would never get out.

I think the more I Plan A, the better I will get at setting up my boundaries. Also since I am seeing such a pattern to his bahavior. I cannot react to what he says, whether it's what I want to hear, or whether it is something that hurts my feelings. I need to stay true to the course I have set for myself, and ignore the other stuff around me. My course is to not give up on him, because we always promised each other we never would. And he is lost now - even if he can't admit it to me, all the books say he is, and the WS that post here say that is how they felt.

As quoted in one of my books, I have to fly using my instrument panel. Meaning, I can't see what is going on, it is dark and stormy, and the only way I can get where I want to go is to watch my instruments (stick to my plan, read my books, make myself happy) and not concentrate on what is going on outside the airplane, because it is confusing and disorienting and will cause me to crash if I focus on it. Does that make sense? That was from a book the counselor at my church recommended called "Love Life for Every Married Couple" by Ed Wheat. It even has a chapter on how to make your marriage work when you are the only one who wants it to work. It actually follows a lot of the stuff on this site. You've probably already read it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks so much for your post. You are in my thoughts and prayers. I pray God shines his healing and cleansing light of love in your WH heart, so he can see that in you he has everything he could ever want. I pray I can stay the course as long as you if I have to. You are truly an inspiration. You have true love for him.

Amy-Marie,

One of things I think all of us learn here, is that first the change has to come within us for ourselves not for the significant other. Once we become healthier, we are better able to deal with problems and cope with them. This site helps so much, because we see that we really aren't crazy and that almost every single one of us has the same story with the twists being a little different. I found that when I started taking care of me, my H started coming around more and he opened up more. I think he got scared because he knew the stronger I was getting, the greater the chance that I would one day say, live your life and do what you have to do. I did tell him this and that's when things started changing. He had me on one side and the OW on the other. I was his comfort, his safe place, she was his excitement, his thrill. Before I found this site and started going to IC and taking AD, I was distraught and ashamed. When I started applying the MB principles and did a Plan A with somewhat success but still being kept of the fence I moved to plan B and even took off for a few days after arranging for my kids to stay with my sister. When he had no idea where I was he went nuts calling everyone trying to find out where I was, he saw that I was serious and that I was not going to play his game anymore, it was me or her. He chose me. It hasn't been easy but we're still together.

You know your H more than anyone else, you know what makes him tick, you know what he likes and what he doesn't like, you know his insecurities, his fears the OW doesn't. Use this to your advantage, I know this may sound manipulative and maybe it is, but bottom line this is your future and your marriage that you're trying to save. Take care of yourself first and everything else will fall into place.

Three years ago, I never would never have believed it but it's true. Believe it or not, I'm grateful for my H's affair, don't get me wrong it hurt like hell but, if he hadn't have done it, I would still be where I was three years ago. Today, I'm stronger because of it. I know that life will go on, and I chose to make this negative part of my life into something positive. Healing starts from within, sometimes changing the dynamics can have amazing results.