I posted a few days ago about finding out from H that the EA was really a PA. I had to drag that info out of him, and it was through total intuition, not by much that he said. That night I was going to have him sleep in the guest room, but I didn't. We were both awake at 3 am and talked and held each other for 3 hrs. I hate to say it, but he is becoming aware of things that I have told him for yrs. that he just couldn't get before he almost lost me and our family through having an A. He read "After the Affair " in one day.

Meanwhile I am devastated. I was doing a pretty good job dealing with the EA, which was hard enough. Knowing he was touching another woman, and depriving me of sex for months, is really getting to me. Before this happened I also said I'd never stay in our marriage if this happened. I'd say "Do me a favor, if you're ever going to have an affair, just tell me first and it will be over." Now here I am, sticking in there.

OK, this is my question. I talked to him last night and said I need to have my questions answered. I have the need to know details. I know it will be so painful, but I have to know when this affair started, when they began having sex, what they did, and how often. He called our prior marriage therapist 2 days ago who said I have the right to have my questions answered. I feel like I can't move on until he faces me and tells me the whole truth.

He couldn't deal with this last night. I told him I thought it was fear. He said no, he just doesn't want to do more damage to our marriage. I said that my imagination is doing enough damage. I asked him to please tell me the truth within a few days and he couldn't. Said he's too ashamed. I made him sleep in the guest room until he's honest with me. I couldn't believe he chose that option instead of choosing to be honest. That's got to be fear, don't you think?

This morning he told me he wanted to e-mail OW because he was so upset and needed to talk to someone. He didn't, but told me because one book said he should do that.

Is it wrong for me to want details? I've read some people need details, and some don't. In my gut I don't think I can move on without them. Should I wait until we are in therapy to get them? Our shrink is gone for a few weeks. Should I be asking this question here, or on the recovery board? Please, I really need advice. Thanks!

Hi,

You will get advice and find material that goes both ways on this issue.

Personally, I felt I needed the details in order that I knew what I was forgiving WW for. I waited for them though - about 3 weeks after d-day #1 my wife volunteered them during a long drive.

I have to tell you they hit me very hard and added a new dimension to everything. The worst was the mushy stuff that led up to PA - because it made no sense that she could do that stuff and not see were it was going to lead ... and how much pain it was going to cause 2 other people. I was extremely resentful of this but I got over it.

If I had to go back I would still want to get the details, rather than wondering. At the same time, there are some hurts that go very deep (I am only 4 months in).

P.S. there is a long letter somewhere that is a Dear WS from BS about asking for details and why it's neccessary (Dear Peggy maybe?). I tried to fiond it but I can't. Maybe someone else knows the link?

<small>[ February 06, 2004, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: cpx ]</small>

CV,

I am sorry you are experiencing such pain. You are not alone.

With respect to details, I sought advice from therapists and several books. My imagination was running wild....it drove me absolutely crazy. Simply put, I was asked to ponder the need for details. Why was this information important to me and what would I do with it?

Yes, I wanted details. However, in my case I was using those details to punish myself and/or my spouse. The more I punished myself, the more miserable I became. The more I punished my spouse, the more miserable she became. Moreover, punishing her with details made her less likely to share almost anything. Hence, it put a damper on communication.

I finally began to handle the perceived need for details differently by always asking myself "What is my motivation for wanting a particular detail? Is this information really important and relevent to healing?"

It was difficult but qualifying the need for details with these questions was a huge help. It saved both of us a ton of pain and allowed us to heal wounds rather than tear them open.

In retrospect there are some details I wish I had never asked for. In almost every case, those were the kind of details I used to punish either my spouse or myself with. However, there were details that helped me to make sense of certain things.

CV, this worked for me. Seek the advice of a professional before you do anything.

I find it interesting that your spouse would tell you he wanted to e-mail the other woman. Maybe he really wants to talk with you but in a safe environment.

It's hard, but you both can overcome this hurdle in your life's journey. Don't give up. Get help.

Thanks! I appreciate your responses and anyone else's who want to add on.

I've chilled out a bit. I think I can wait for additional info. What's the rush? I've waited a whole month just to get this truth dribbled out to me. What I realized today is the following. I'm glad I finally know the truth. Living with a totally detached spouse was so hard. I was at the point of leaving him before he began to come clean. But I have traded in the extreme loneliness that I could almost touch for what I feel now. Which is a pain so deap I can barely stand it. And what is really confusing me is how can I have feelings of love for someone who could hurt me this badly? I don't know what to do with these feelings.

I realized today it scares me to death that I still feel for him. How do I have sex with him after he has been with someone else? Believe it or not I felt like I was a fairly healthy person with good self-esteem. Now I don't want to eat, am on an antidepressant, am averaging 3 hrs. of sleep, and feel like crap. Does someone who loves you inflict this kind of pain? I am amazed at all of you who have stuck through this process.

Sorry, I needed to get that out. Thanks again. All of you are great!

Dear CV55
Our stories are a little similiar - Husband only admitted to EA for 2 monthes and lied for 2 monthes until admitting 1 night PA, NC since. My intuition told me it was more and finally guilt got the best of him and he confessed. We are 6 monthes into recovery and I still obsess about details. But I to am learning slowly to be careful what I ask for. My husband was brutally honest about what I asked and sometimes this information sent me spiraling. Why would I need to know all the specifics?? I am still not sure what the right answer is but be careful and be sure that you are prepared for the answer and will the answer help you move forward or send you over the cliff like me a few times! I am sort of phasing out of that now - spending more time in the How could you? and What were you thinking? Funny thiing is last night we talked and when I asked him if he thought A was a mistake he replied that how could it be a mistake if it was deliberate? He stated that it was unfortunate but we would never be where we are today had it not happened. I am reeling from this one. Plan to clarify later - but Unfortunate is when you get a ticket - not when you screw someone else!
Hope you hang in there and things do get easier - I just need to keep hearing that as well!

Dear Bummed Out,

I was thinking this morning that I feel like I am on this very weird trip right now. God only knows where it is leading. Last night H and I went out to dinner. He put this new blues cd on in the car and the 1st song was all about someone in pain because there lover chated on them. I made him turn it off. He was totally unaware. Now I can't even listen to the blues. Then in the restaurant I pictured him sitting across the table with OW. It's amazing to me the effect this has on so many levels.

On the other hand certain things have occurred which, I hate to admit, I don't think would have happened without this A happening. I keep a journal and I wrote in Oct. 2002 that I felt a lack in my spiritual life. These 8 months of loneliness got me in touch with the spiritual in a way that I could never have imagined. It has also opened the door to friendship and healing some other relationships that I never thought would happen. It brought me to this site and a spiritual site, which has been amazing to me. That total strangers would reach out to help me has really touched me. Finally, my H is realizing things about himself that I could never help him understand before the A happened. Last night he told me he would close off and just look at me as being critical. He told me until this happened he didn't really know that I loved him. I realized today that I'm not sure I realized I loved him either. I would have never thought I would have stuck with him if he cheated on me. I have always hated affairs.

In saying all the above, this still sucks! Your H using the word "unfortunate" would hit me the wrong way too. If he means you both arrived at a better place that maybe you wouldn't have gotten to before, then I guess it is a good thing. But our pain has to be acknowledged.

I imagine I'm going to be at this site for a long time, so we'll continue to support one another. Good Luck!

CVS,

I have something really wonderful to share with you. It was first written to Dear Peggy.com....and has been shared here before. Perhaps it will help you communicate to your H why you need details. I know I needed them.

Joseph's Letter.

"To Whomever:

I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

Hey CV -
Well, Had chat with Hubby last night about his choice of words - "unfortunate". He states that yes it was and he cannot say that it was a mistake because that would be like saying he did not have to take responsibility for it. He says it was wrong, he never meant to hurt me and never dreamed of all the fallout. yada, yada, yada, if only they thought of this before destroying so many lives. I guess that made me feel a little better but boy does it sting when he says he had to make the right decision and end it because he had strong feelings for OW. I am so sick of the rollercoaster. Here we are 6 monthes out and yesterday all I did was cry. I feel like I will never be normal again. Will there ever be a day that I won't think "Oh my God, my husband had an affair, what am I still doing here" Well I initially stayed because of my three precious children.. They don't deserve all this pain because of their [censored]**** father.
But as this rollercoaster goes along sometimes I actually feel like I am falling in love with my husband all over again. What an ambigious feeling.

Just venting - Hope you had a great weekend