I never participated in a discussion forum and first I need to know if this is where I post my questions? If so, my question is: my wh will not leave the house, or stop seeing the ow; how can I begin plan a or plan b? Thank you.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. It is a great place to be. Start by doing Plan A. Read all about is here. On the home page there is a section called "quick clicks" that explains all of the concepts here.

A good Plan A needs to be done for several months. Later you can think about Plan B. Plan A is very difficult when you are hurting so much, so come here and post. You will get lots of support and advice.

Right now you probably feel hopeless, but things can be better. Stick with us.

Thank you believer for responding. I have been reading this forum and MB site for several weeks and finally decided I need to participate...I have read and reread surving an affair and love busters. How do Do I begin with plan a even thou my wh continues with the ow? The ow H and I have talked; I suggested he read these books; but he has given up hope.

No he has not given up hope. He is having an affair. That's how they all are. Keep reading the stories here, and you will notice that they all say and do the same things.

Watch for I love you, but I'm not in love with you, I need some space, OP is my "soulmate", I never loved you, It's all your fault, We're just friends, blah, blah, blah.

Start in Plan A. You need to show him that he has a great wife to come back to. It is very difficult while he is with OW, so come here for support.

Believer,
WOW, I can't believe how much the stories are the same; especially the words you used to describe my WH A. Soul mates is the term he first used to define the OW; what are the chances that he will want to work on the marriage? Is it true that most affairs end? Thank you for helping me to believe in this forum, myself and my marriage.

pvan,

WOW, I can't believe how much the stories are the same; especially the words you used to describe my WH A. Soul mates is the term he first used to define the OW;

It is amazing...but we could literally write scripts for these affairs the wording and actions are so similar. Don't believe what you hear from your H right now....he is in a deep fog that will cloud his thinking.

what are the chances that he will want to work on the marriage?

The chances are very good that he will want to work on the marriage. Statistically...only a small percentage of husband's actually leave their wives for the OW.

Is it true that most affairs end?

Absolutely true. And the more time they spend together...the faster it happens. The faster they are able to see that the affair is an illusion and a fantasy.

Thank you for helping me to believe in this forum, myself and my marriage.

pvan...let's talk about your Plan A...because it's time for you to get to work and help hasten the end to the affair.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm going to give you cerri's guidelines to Plan A...as a supplement to what you find in "Surviving an Affair".

Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So here are my questions for you to answer about where you are.

Have you stopped love busters?
Have you filled needs he will allow you to fill?
Have you exposed the affair? Who knows about it?
Have you confronted your husband about how his actions make you fee?


I recommend gettting a good marriage coach to guide you through the steps of Plan A and B. Many of the things involved are counter-intuitive...might now feel right...so that's why you need help.

Welcome to the forum...don't give up hope...many many of us have recovered our marriages after affairs. It's done here everyday. Good luck.

pvan -

Take the advice of starfish. She is an expert.

Also I reread your post and saw that it is the OW' H that has given up hope. If he won't read the books, ask him to check out this site so he can see for himself.

It would be excellent if he could get on the MB plan too.

Starfish and Believer,
1. I talked with OW H; he has given up; I recommended the books; not sure if he got them yet. They went to 4 counseling sessions and OW ended the session with 'nothing more to add to the marriage and wanted out'; her biggest area of concern was that her H didn't have enough time for her. He told her he would and could change that; but she is not interested.
Background Information:
me 50
WH 43
married 20 years;
2 S; 14 and 15
A began in July 2003; when WH and OW began planning class reunion and were on the same committee; claims he doesn't remember her from school. OW married 19 years; 1 D 17 and 1 S 15

Have you stopped love busters? Yes, I tried but sometimes I don't know why I can't control them.

Have you filled needs he will allow you to fill? Yes, I am; I didn't realize that we didn't feel appreciated. He thanks me when I fill his en (but he doesn't realize that is what I'm doing); he was surprised I wanted to save the M.

Have you exposed the affair? Who knows about it? Yes, family, friends (because WH is socially out with his friends with OW).

Have you confronted your husband about how his actions make you fee? Yes, H is surprised, confused; said if he knew that during our marriage things would be different now. He can't stop seeing OW because he has feelings for her and he can't move out of our house because he wants to be friends, part of my life forever, still has lots of love for me; but no one ever made him feel like how OW does.

Hope this helps you, I am so grateful for the one on one contact with other people in the forum. I began seeing a counselor in December and have weekly sessions with her. She is excellent and familiar with MB recommendations.

Stay with us. We will get you through this. Actually it seems like there is a lot of hope for your marriage.

Get in Plan A, and no LB's. When you feel hurt, come here and post. Don't take personally what your H says. They are all the same. Plan A is difficult, but the best way to get to the marriage you want.

pvan,

Good for you....sounds like you are doing a good Plan A and have a good counselor (that is really important). How long has it been since D-day? A Plan A has a time limit. No longer than three months for women.....so begin getting your life in order in the event that you may need to move to Plan B. This is an awful time....when the affair is on going...and Plan A doesn't provide much safety of reassurance for you. Just remember...that right now...you are doing your best to help your WH see that the marriage is a viable alternative to the affair. It's interesting....I'm almost 50, my H is 47. We've been married for 21 years. I have three children...20, 18 and 6. I've survived two affairs in my marriage and have been in recovery for about two years now. At the height of affairs...all WS's say that "no one made them feel like this does"....don't listen to it and don't believe it...it's fog talk and poppycock. At one time, I have no doubt he was just as infatuated with you as he is with her. This is just new...and she hasn't had as much time to look human yet....be a little patient...she'll screw up really soon.

Closely examine the areas of your marriage that you believe made it vulnerable to an affair. Your husband is 100 percent responsible for the affair...but you are equally responsible for the vulnerability of your marriage. How did YOU contribute to that? That is where you focus your energy. If you gained a bunch of weight...start losing. If you criticised him often...stop it. If you spent all your time with the children...refocus your energy. If you stopped having sex with him...begin again when you are comfortable. If he likes the house clean...clean it. You know this man 1000 times more than this OW...use that knowledge to fight back. My H likes admiration....when I realized that's what he got from her...why I was able to admire him in ways she couldn't begin to fathom because I lived with him for 18 years!

I am encouraged greatly about your situation because from what you have posted...I can tell you have read the things you need to... and are doing the things you must. Don't give up...and we will help when we can.

Blessings to you! I will keep you in my prayers.

Starfish,
Yes, I know exactly what the problems were; especially after reading the EN; admiration and appreciation for my WH is important to him and I first discovered this from listening to the voice messages OW was leaving on his cell phone. I wasn't even sure she was talking to my H. I think it's extemely important that I forget about the past problems in our M (the problems before the A) and just continue to tell my WH what's in my heart and mind. The OW really opened up my WH eyes to the importance of affection and compasion and I feel she is a better person for him than me; because I just brought out the anger in him and resentment. Do you think that is a possibility and it would be better and the right thing to do; to let him enjoy his life with OW; since she really brings out the best in him; he is now a better H and father all thanks to the OW. Are you working on your marriage also? Could I hear more about you if you'd like to share. I feel like I'm the only 50 year old with a 20 year marriage in trouble and now what do I do? Thank you.

pvan,

It's easy for someone who hasn't had to overcome the trials and tribulations of a twenty year marriage to step in and look good and bring out the best in your husband isn't it? That's opportunistic...and an illusion. Please do NOT buy into that. The newness, the fantasy...is a great ego builder...but what makes you think that over the course of time that this relationship is better for your husband than his marriage. The problems have simply not been revealed yet...but they will be....Please don't give up.

As far as myself....my story is chronicled in so many parts of this forum that it is hard to find...somewhere...here in JFO...I wrote down the whole thing...like a soap opera. I have been here on MB for about two years. I am now in the process of getting my certification as a marriage coach for SYMC (cerri/Penny's site). I have used the concepts on this site to recovery my marriage after infidelity....and yes...we are doing extremely well. I mentor other couples who are in crisis...and I am trying to complete all the requirements and study for the tests that will complete my training. I started on this site...much like you...afraid, insecure, trying to desperately make a difference in my marriage. I have done that and more. I'm going to look for a link for my story...but I'm warning you....it's outrageously long. I'll try to find it and give you the link.

Don't lose hope....and please...do not question whether you are doing the right thing. Keep your eye on the prize and know that my prayers are with you.

This is a link to a long thread that has most of my story on it. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=003181;p=1

<small>[ February 15, 2004, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

pvan -

Oh puleeeez. Don't even think about WH and OW being "soulmates" or good for each other. They are in the throes of infatuation.

I have the added advantage of talking to OW's H all of the time. He worked 3 jobs so she could stay at home with daughter. My H wants to retire, he doesn't even want to work one job.

While in fogland, it is like a fantasy for them. Wait until they start facing everyday problems, then poof - the fantasy is gone.

Stick to the MB program and don't try to figure this stuff out. It will drive you crazy.

Believer,
The OW filed for D on 12/3/03; and her H is not fighting it. So OW will be available 4/03/04. This A has been going on since 6/2003. I found out in October 2003. I tried Plan A; but my WH is getting the best of both worlds; sex with W; relationship with 2 S; and then ENs with OW. How do I do Plan A without refusing his sexual offers? Because that was a LB in our M. WH is living at home and I would like H to vacant because I think H will realize what he is losing. What is your opinion on this? In WI he doesn't have to leave the house until the D is final; so I'm doing Plan A; fulfilling his EN; and planning the D with him all at the same time. Now what? Thank you for replying.

pvan,

My opinion is that if you have been in Plan A since October...and you have done a good job...it is already beyond the three month guideline for it have impact. That means it's time for Plan B...not divorce. As you can see....longer just turns him into the cake eater that he has become....getting the best of all worlds. Contact Cerri....and she will guide you through a good Plan B. It's time for the OW to try and meet ALL his needs...the ones she did...and the ones you did as well. It's something she will fail at....and it's time that she did. Plan A has lost it's effectiveness at this point. So get all your ducks in a row...and call a good coach.

Star*Fish,
I have not done a good solid Plan A for more than a couple days. However, I feel stronger now that I can vent on this forum and get adivce regularly. I feel that I can do a solid, Plan A, consistenly for now. Therefore, should I do the Plan A for a month without LB and see where I'm at at the end of a 30 day period? Thanks again.

Yes most certainly. Before going to Plan B...you want to leave your spouse with the a good impression of the marriage. If you have not done that...not shown him that the marriage is an attractive alternative to the affair...then Plan B doesn't work as it should. So yes...I would say a few more weeks of a good Plan A...and then find a coach to help you with the timing. This board is fabulous...but it is not substitute for a good coach. Either the Harleys, or cerri are an excellent choice. Please get a hold of those Love Busters and get a great Plan A under your belt. Good Luck sweetie.