I first want to say thank you everyone for all your support and advice- I am so thankful I found this site right away. I don't have much new to report other than my husband has still not admitted to an affair- still claims the emails he sent were "joking around" "as friends" Of course as probably many of you have done you one minute I believe him and then the next I think "how can I be so stupid to believe that is all?" The positives have been that he has accepted that his relationship with her to me was a betrayal and has apologized for hurting meand has agreed to stop it and has also agreed that we both need indiv. counseling as well as marital.
But he is still upset that I have thought to contact her spouse - his reasoning is that becasue this was nothing- why stir up something in their marriage and secondly he feels I would be overreacting and acting like an over jealous spouse which was a problem for him in previous relationships (his ex-wife didn't want him to really have any friends- although now I see she may have been reacting to his behaviors or she may have been unfaithful). Of course his reasonings are not reason enough for me not to contact her husband- I am just not sure what to say as I really don't have "proof" and also I had considered contacting her to let her know what I have found, etc. and encourage her to tell her husband. I am afraid I will be too emotional over the phone to talk to her - would it be ok to email her. I know she will be open to talk to me as she had tried to call me a couple months back when I first had suspicions but I never called her back as I really had not much at that time to address - now I do. What does everyone suggest to do next, first. I am also going to get some of the books others have suggested and suggested on here.

Linda,

No do not call the OW, or her spouse without greater proof that this is any more than an early EA. It is so rare that contact with the A partner goes well...that it is not a risk worth taking. The relationship was inappropriate. If your husband is willing to end it...open his life up to your scrutiny to re-establish trust, then move forward from here.

Your next step??? I'd say a finding a good marriage coach is your best first step. Remember right now...that the pain you feel and your reaction to it...is as great a threat to your marriage right now as his previous inappropriate actions.

<small>[ February 19, 2004, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

starfish-
Thanks for responding but now I am confused. Isn't it good to expose the affair? To contact her and her husband? I thought that was part of plan a or do I need to wait for more proof unless he confesses? Thanks for any input.
Linda

Follow starfish's advice. She is an expert.

Linda,

I read your story...and while I find the emails highly inappropriate, and certainly suspect....from your description they don't sound too incredibly damning at this point. My sense of this.....is that this is a perfect wake-up call for your marriage, but if you try to convince your husband that this is already an affair....it's not going to be easy. So far, it sounds as though he is emailing women And unless you find further evidence of more contact, or something more awful....that so far, this has not become dangerous enough to start exposing. The confrontation you have already done about the potential dangers of this sort of thing...should be fine...UNLESS you find more okay?

Do you have any other suspicions or any other odd things happening? Are these emails the only hard and fast rules, or have you suspected things for a while?

Hi-
Thanks for the f/u- there have been some other things. I was first suspicious of this relationship withthis "friend" back in November when I heard a voicemail on his phone- we have the same model cell phone and I thought it was mine I was checking at first. Anyways- she just sounded very "flirty" on the phone- telling him she would be at Dave's Place, come down if he can" Dave's Place is a local pub that he has hung out at for years and she is one of the "gang" that hangs out there. But there had been other clues before- decreas ein intimacy with us, increased irritability with him, him going out and not answering his phone right away. His claim to that was that he didn;t want to argue with me about him going out as I am not thrilled about him going to any bars as he has ahistory of binge drinking which I do have to say he has gone to some counseling for and has not had 1 incident in over a year.
Anyways- when I confronted him in November I didn;t know it was her at first until he told me who she was- I didn't recognize the name at first but the way he reacted to it (defensively0 made me continue to be suspicious. She even left called me ( supposedly to straighten out the confusion) but I never returned her call as I though she is married to- what is she going to say. Anyways- I sill did not right a few months later so that is why I broke into his email. I am even more upset that after we went through all that garbage back in November why would he cointinue to email and flirt with her; saying he wants to see her again if it was not more htan friends? Most people if it was just a "crossing the boundaries" type of situation would of backed off after the confrontationback in November not continued to email on that same level (flirting, using pet names, and remarking on what she was wearing last time he saw her) - so that is why I am still pretty unsure.
Anyways- I have picked up "Not Just Friends" and started reading it and sharing some with him and also have started making some calls to therapists to set up indiv. counseling for both of us and marital.
Oh- another red flag did happen last week- I had his cell phone because mine was broken and I decided to try to reach her and called her from his cell phone (also to see how she would amswer react- I did reach her vmail but did not leave a message. Anways- she called back his number 4 times ina half hour time frame- but left no msg! To me that how you would behave to return a call to a friend!
Thanks for any more feedback- I am still contemplating contacting her and just putting it out on the table about the emails- I may emnail her instead though.

Oh oh. Red flags everywhere. Are you in Plan A?

I guess I need help figuring out plan a. I think tonihjt I will ask him to send her a NC letter and I may try to contact her again myself just to confront what I found too to see if she reveals anything else. I will also ask him to close his old email acct. and ask for me to have access to his other one if I need it. I am still unsure if I should contact her husband yet as really everything is just red flags but nothing concrete. I guess I could contact him and just tell him I am uncomfortable with their relationship and am suspicios and tell him why. Even if there is nothing more he want to know that she emails and calls other men aqand it definetely crosses soem boundaries. What do you think?

Have you read, "Surviving An Affair"?

Linda R- My W had a 4+ month emotional A where she returned OM calls 3 for every 1. I did not know this was happening until in December when I walked into the house and my W was on the cell phone giggling and talking about her looks. When that happened she lied about who it was on the phone (which I was able to confirm was a lie by asking the person my W claimed she was talking to and was told "I have not talked to her since last week). I had other signs though, particularly the change in appearance and refusing to answer some phone calls in my presence. Even though I had no idea to what degree their relationship had gone, I had earlier clues, but did not trust my instincts. I wish I had since they turned out to be right. This may be wrong for your situation, but I wanted to give you my story. Also, W and OM claim it was EA/"crossing the boundaries" and I have no evdence of PA.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> decreas ein intimacy with us, increased irritability with him, him going out and not answering his phone right away. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Red flags is right. You need to find more concrete evidence....can you get the call detail for his cell phone?

Do you have someone you could trust to go to this bar and see how they interact? And if need be follow him or them when they leave?

Stunned Dad-
Those are some great ideas. With the cell phone- I have had access to the bill aswe have a family plan- the problem is that she has a number that is blocked does not show up- but I Did compare the calls listed with total minutes used and it doe smatch up- she may have only left messages or talked for brief times. I wouldn't mind having someone go to that bar to check it out but anyone I would trust he would know too. Anyone here in Central Florida up for some spy work- lol!!
I think though that the nature of the relationship may be one that they have had physical contact at times - maybe when convenient for both of them. I may be being naive but don't really think he is looking to leave or this would progress to that but even still it is not ok!! Anyways, I do wish now I would of waited to confront but at this point although there is nothing concrete but evidence that he was innaproprite with her and is willing to write a nc letter and I have already had his cell phone number changed and I will ask him to close the other email. I have thought about getting one of those key loggers too or even just ask him to take a polygraph test. Maybe that would ease my mind once and for all and then we can really go from there and even if there is not more we still need to address these innappropriate and potential for affair behaviors that he has been engaging in.

Hi everyone- hope you are all hanging in there and taking care of yourselves.
I thought I would just post an update. My husband has not admitted to anything else and we have had some arguments when I have questioned him again which I know I shouldn't do as I have already tried to calmly confront him. What keeps happening is he sees me upset and in comforting me asks what is on my mind then when I tell him and keep pushing and prodding it gets heated. I am glad but also scared about our first mc session tomorrow night- not to go to counseling as I and we have been before but afraid that maybe he is waiting until then to tell me more. Lately when we have talked he has said he wants to wait until counseling- which in many ways is good because we have not been communicating very well.

I also just sent an email to the suspected ow-I have prepared myself as I may not get a good response or any more info but I just kept waiting and waiting and still felt as if I needed to do this and since she was open to talk to me before I thought that was a good sign. I basically did not accuse her but just quoted most of the emails and asked her to explain their relationship. So I will let you know if anything happens.
Just please send some prayers my way that whatever happens I will have the strength to handle it well (and especially my reactions). I just hope and pray that we wil be connected with a good mc and on our way to healing. I have already decided that I am no matter what.

Linda,

I don't have much advice. But I will pray for you.

Hi-
I just thought I would give an update and see if anyone has any feedback.
We had our first mc session but did not get too much into my suspicions of the affair yet but feel we had a good session anyways and she will also address that issue. I am still not sure exactly how to proceed as there has been no concrete proof that he had an affair. We have had some good conversations during which he admitted that I am not meeting all his needs but he does not know really what his needs are and how to express them - we have started working on the emotional needs questionarre. He also admitted that his sex drive has decreased because of his low self esteem - as we both use to be in much better shape and he finally admitted that he is not happy with my weighyt. I have gained about 30-40 lbs since we got married and even at that time was plump- so I am now at least 60- 70lbs overweight. I has suspected that was part of the problem but he never admitted becasue he didn;t want to hurt me and he knew I was working on it and has some health issues contributing to it. Thius is probably one of his higher needs - physical attractiveness and surely the amount I have gained does detract from his expectation.

I also did emial the suspected "ow" and what she wrote back did coincide with what my husband said that they had always "flirted" and sexually joked around but the both knew what all there ever was to it and she says her husband even knows about it. She also added that her marriage is good and she is not looking to be with someone else but she did say that she could understand why I was suspicious and she would of wondered to if she saw the emails.

So that has made me feel a little better. But I also know that could all be BS and I still have my radar up. I have called intermittently directly to his work to make sure he is there, I still have his password to his main email (which he never knew I had) and there has not been anything there, and I have snooped in bills and by other means and so far it has checked out.

Could I have been wrong about the suspicions and all of it was just a big sign for us to fix things- should I tell him to send her a NC letter since nothing has been confirmed?

Also does nayone know a good website for a key logger for the computer? I tried to fownload a free one at softactivity.com but it didn't work. I think that may still be a good way to moniter him.

What do you think? Are there some things I am missing or over looking- I certainly still want to be objective too and not be "snowed over" if he is still lying to me- wich is definetley a possibility. And what if there was more and he nevercomes clean- can we ever fix things? Sorry for the long update- it has been a while.

I just thought I would update again. We have been going to counseling and it has been helpful- so far everthing I have snooped on has been verified and I believe he may be being honest but I am still keeping my eyes and ears open. THe one thing I have found disturbing is that he has been visiting some sites, which if was in moderation would be ok. I am beginning to worry it has gotten excessive and I have addressed it with him, stating that I walked into the room without him knowing and saw what site he was on. Really I figured out his new password and have been checking the history. I know this needs to be addressed again but don;t really want to reveal that I know the new email password. Should I install a key logger so I have actual proof- don't they also track how long someone spends at each site and times too or should I just tell him I have been checking the history, I gues he should realize I still do not trust him and he should be open to me checking on him?
Just wondered if anyone had any feedback for me.

Another thought - I could wait and address this in our next counseling session. Or wait until I have more concrete evidence and then address it. Can anyone recommend and inexpenive and easy to use key logger?
Thanks everyone and hope you are all taking care.